Why the cross actually saves

[justbyfaith]

Jesus completely paid for our sins. In the sense we cannot be held liable. It is as though God executed us for them in Christ and we cannot be tried for the same crime twice. This includes the sin of unbelief and rejecting him. So unless you limit the atonement to the elect, which the bible does, all will be saved.

It does not include rejecting Him, and neither does it include unbelief.

Faith in Jesus Christ is set forth in the word of the Lord as the only way to enter into and maintain salvation...and therefore if someone does not believe in Him, they will find themselves outside of the umbrella of what we call salvation.

 

[Enoch111]

Then you have God being tempted...because Jesus is God.

You still don't get it. If a 100 temptations are thrown your way and you do not yield to a single one, then you have not been tempted. Someone has made AN ATTEMPT to tempt you, but you have not been tempted. And that is exactly what I tried to explain. Christ was not tempted although the temptations were thrown at him.

 

[justbyfaith]

You still don't get it. If a 100 temptations are thrown your way and you do not yield to a single one, then you have not been tempted. Someone has made AN ATTEMPT to tempt you, but you have not been tempted. And that is exactly what I tried to explain. Christ was not tempted although the temptations were thrown at him.

Christ was indeed tempted.

Heb 4:15, For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

 

[Enoch111]

...yet without sin.

There's the key. Yet without sin. Apart from sin. Apart from the sin nature. Apart from the three major lusts of sinners. It was impossible for Christ -- who is God -- to consider or yield to any temptation. He did face the temptations head on, but they had no impact on Him. Do you now understand what "yet without sin" means?

 

[justbyfaith]

He was touched with the feeling of our infirmities.

 

[Dave L]

It does not include rejecting Him, and neither does it include unbelief.

Faith in Jesus Christ is set forth in the word of the Lord as the only way to enter into and maintain salvation...and therefore if someone does not believe in Him, they will find themselves outside of the umbrella of what we call salvation.

Jesus died for all sin, especially the sin of rejecting him. You need to reconcile your views with scripture and not the other way around.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus died for all sin, especially the sin of rejecting him. You need to reconcile your views with scripture and not the other way around.

That's Universalism. Because He gave Himself as a ransom for all, 1 Timothy 2:6.

 

[Dave L]

That's Universalism. Because He gave Himself as a ransom for all, 1 Timothy 2:6.

If so, all will be saved? You need to balance the word and see what it means.

 

[justbyfaith]

It has been stated previously that your pov requires Limited Atonement or else Universalism is the reality.

Iow, if, as you say, Jesus died for the sin of continued unbelief and or rejection of Him to the end of one's life, then your own people have stated that all would be saved.

We contend that salvation is by grace through faith. And that therefore, while a person who temporarily rejects Him or has unbelief can be forgiven of unbelief and rejection of Him, that salvation is predicated on faith in Jesus Christ and that therefore if someone has unbelief or rejects Him to the end of their life, they will not be saved; they will in fact be condemned over their unbelief and rejection of Him.

And we also contend that believing or not believing in Jesus is the one factor that determines salvation or condemnation. And that therefore unbelief is a sin that will keep out of heaven everyone who has it, if they were to die in that moment of unbelief.

That must be scary for you; I can see why you wouldn't want to believe it to be the case.

 

[Dave L]

It has been stated previously that your pov requires Limited Atonement or else Universalism is the reality.

Iow, if, as you say, Jesus died for the sin of continued unbelief and or rejection of Him to the end of one's life, then your own people have stated that all would be saved.

We contend that salvation is by grace through faith. And that therefore, while a person who temporarily rejects Him or has unbelief can be forgiven of unbelief and rejection of Him, that salvation is predicated on faith in Jesus Christ and that therefore if someone has unbelief or rejects Him to the end of their life, they will not be saved; they will in fact be condemned over their unbelief and rejection of Him.

And we also contend that believing or not believing in Jesus is the one factor that determines salvation or condemnation. And that therefore unbelief is a sin that will keep out of heaven everyone who has it, if they were to die in that moment of unbelief.

That must be scary for you; I can see why you wouldn't want to believe it to be the case.

He saves them from their unbelief.

 

[justbyfaith]

He saves them from their unbelief.

Not after they are dead....

 

[Dave L]

Not after they are dead....

He saves them in real-time from their rejection of him and their unbelief.

 

[justbyfaith]

He saves them in real-time from their rejection of him and their unbelief.

As long as they continue in unbelief, they remain lost.

 

[Dave L]

As long as they continue in unbelief, they remain lost.

But he saves all whom he redeems.

 

[CoreIssue]

He saves them in real-time from their rejection of him and their unbelief.

You forgot to make it clear what you said is per Calvinism.

 

[Dave L]

You forgot to make it clear what you said is per Calvinism.

No, Paul said it first.

 

[CoreIssue]

No, Paul said it first.

Calvin said it first.

 

[amadeus]

I am just cautioning you. You say that God was not tempted. Yet we can read For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.[Hebrews 4:15] This is why we have to compare scripture with scripture, not pit it against itself. We can also read Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.[James 1:13] The only logical conclusions that can be made by comparing these two verses is 1) the Christ is not God, 2) God in James 1:13 is referring to God the Father, or 3) either the writer of Hebrews or James is off in their writing.

When we read He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”[Genesis 22:12] The reason I bring this verse into the discussion is open theists use this verse to say God does not know things until they unfold before Him. However, the saying 'now I know' is the same as A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;[Isaiah 53:3] What was meant by this is that God became acquainted with grief the same way Abraham was as he was drawing the knife back to sacrifice his own son. The Christ was tempted the same exact way we are, and He became acquainted with our own temptations. The same word used for 'know' is the same word used for 'acquainted'. Its the Hebrew word yada which has a wide semantic range.

So, God the Son was tempted, but God the Father was not. That is why understanding there is a Triune God is imperative to understanding things like these.

Thank you for your consideration and explanations with scriptures. I guess your explanations work for you with where your are at, but my mind has been off for a couple of days. I cannot at this time delve so deeply. I must for the moment leave it in His hands.

Or, 4) Jesus was tempted in His humanity but not in His Deity.

​

Thank you also my friend, but for you my answer is the same. The nature of God is for now beyond me as my head is swirling. Perhaps later I will regain my ability to really look into it... but that also is up to Him.​

 

[justbyfaith]

But he saves all whom he redeems.

Which means...what?

It seems to me to be an irrelevant statement as concerning what we are discussing.

 

[Mjh29]

You forgot to make it clear what you said is per Calvinism.

Hebrews 12:2

The Bible said it first.