Why water into wine?

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BreadOfLife

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Thats just it is it not, they have like you divorced your self from His "ecclesia" His gathering of people" to be joined to your church the harlot one, the institution.

I guess you did miss this part
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

That mens religions and institutions, the one your religion in the mother of.
This bit is for those who belong to Christ

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

You went and joined your church and became a catholic, we went to Christ became joined to Him and became Chritians, His bride,.
Your understanding of the Catholic Canon of Scripture is pathetic.

1 Cor. 6:16 has absolutely nothing to do with your warped view of the Catholic Church.
Paul is telling the Corinthians that their bodies are temples of the Holy spirit and that they should behave in such a manner. The "harlot" he speaks of is NOT an institution - but an actual harlot.

Don't you ever tire of being proven wrong??
 

bbyrd009

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Thats just it is it not, they have like you divorced your self from His "ecclesia" His gathering of people" to be joined to your church the harlot one, the institution.

I guess you did miss this part

1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

That mens religions and institutions, the one your religion in the mother of.

This bit is for those who belong to Christ

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

You went and joined your church and became a catholic, we went to Christ became joined to Him and became Chritians, His bride,.
nice. Funny to me that the ppl who insist upon literal interpretations are usually the same ones that deny the meek inheriting the earth lol, i don't really get it? It's like...i don't even know, being proud to be an ignorant hypocrite or something. Stupid and proud of it. Ok that isn't very kind, so whatever "i can't even make logical sense of what i believe, but i believe it completely" is.
 

perrero

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First of all - you're WRONG when you say that I believe that ALL non-Catholics are "lost". This is a lie of your own invention because this is neither what I believe - NOR what the Church teaches.
In that case stop saying that all the splinter groups and lone-rangers are lost. Because in reality you have no clue about their standing with God. You need to get down from your ivory tower of judgment and allow God to save whoever He wills as He is not willing that any should perish. That's why there are revivals all over the world, in Muslim countries, in China, Philippines etc. not because of any church or denomination but because God can save without you or me, or with you or me.

YOU don't fit that description because YOU have been told and you still reject Him
Now it is you who lie. Your judgmental crystal ball doesn't know me from Adam. I've known and have a loving relationship with my Lord and Saviour for over 45 yrs now. And if it wasn't for someone who brought me the true Gospel, I'd be still stuck in my sin and the Catholic religion until this day. Thank you Jesus for showing me the difference between that dead religion and Your life giving relationship. Just a simple prayer of repentance and receiving You as Lord and Saviour. Now I don't have to light candles, kneel before idols, pray to dead saints, do stations of the cross, hope I make it to purgatory. I don't even need to go to confession because Jesus is my advocate before the Father and He forgives when I stumble and ask for His forgiveness. Why? Because I'm a child of the King and accepted in the Beloved.
I just hope you can say the same.
 

pia

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I am also aware that in every religion there are those that are not saved who still hold to their religion, traditions and their good works to eventually save them, which is also what the C church believes.
Great post ! Yeah there are many and only the Lord knows who is His, not any self appointed 'church police'..I am going to have to back off from BOL, the man has spent such a long time in what he believes is the absolute truth, so it would take a 'Road to Damascus' moment of his own, before he will stop persecuting The Lords believers... I feel so sad for him, because he TRULY believes what his teachers and alike have told him. He forgot to cling to Christ and instead clung to a man made institution, however well meaning it may have been at the start...One day it will all crash for him, and then he will need help and support from those who know better. I can't write him anymore, said all I have to say anyway...I so hope he makes it into the true Light...Perhaps if everyone ignored him, he would eventually either stop, or give SOME thought to what others have shared with him...I'd prefer the latter, but only time will tell... God bless you Pia
 
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pia

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Fair enough - but don't make the mistake in thinking that Jesus "approves" of the tens of thousands of perpetually splintering sects who have divorced themselves from that ONE Church and their millions of Lone Ranger believers.

Jesus prayed fervently for the unity of His Church - they they remain ONE as He and the Father are ONE.
But dear BOL, that's just it......They did NOT do that, but He knows each and every one of His own, and THEY collectively make HIS CHURCH. Neither you or I 'approve' of the splintering, but neither do I believe that the institutionalized churches of ANY denomination, has His Truth in it, because it IS an IT.....concocted by various men across centuries, who DEMAND allegience.
The ONLY way I can see it is this ....We either belong to Jesus, or we belong to whatever affiliation we have tied ourselves to. We mustn't forget that as yet we see dimly, we don't have ALL the Truth yet, and neither does any institution.
I admire your tenacity, something or someone at one time in your life, convinced you of what you're saying, and you want to show your love for God, by following what you believe He wants, but you really should give some thought, to ASKING HIM, what he wants.........None of us want to be standing in front of Jesus and be asked :" What were you thinking? Why didn't you ask Me? I was right there with you the whole way.".............Be careful what you say and to whom, you may be calling the Lord a liar by proxy of the person who belongs to Him and has Him in them......Surely you wouldn't want to be doing that?
Praise the Lord forever Pia
 
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tabletalk

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But dear BOL, that's just it......They did NOT do that, but He knows each and every one of His own, and THEY collectively make HIS CHURCH. Neither you or I 'approve' of the splintering, but neither do I believe that the institutionalized churches of ANY denomination, has His Truth in it, because it IS an IT.....concocted by various men across centuries, who DEMAND allegience.
The ONLY way I can see it is this ....We either belong to Jesus, or we belong to whatever affiliation we have tied ourselves to. We mustn't forget that as yet we see dimly, we don't have ALL the Truth yet, and neither does any institution.
I admire your tenacity, something or someone at one time in your life, convinced you of what you're saying, and you want to show your love for God, by following what you believe He wants, but you really should give some thought, to ASKING HIM, what he wants.........None of us want to be standing in front of Jesus and be asked :" What were you thinking? Why didn't you ask Me? I was right there with you the whole way.".............Be careful what you say and to whom, you may be calling the Lord a liar by proxy of the person who belongs to Him and has Him in them......Surely you wouldn't want to be doing that?
Praise the Lord forever Pia

"We either belong to Jesus, or we belong to whatever affiliation we have tied ourselves to." No. There are many on this site who belong to a local church, but belong, first and foremost, to the Lord Jesus. You seem to look at the local church as a hindrance to the worship of God, to sanctification, to Godliness and holiness, to submission to one another, to Christian fellowship, etc.

"Neither you or I 'approve' of the splintering, but neither do I believe that the institutionalized churches of ANY denomination, has His Truth in it, because it IS an IT.....concocted by various men across centuries, who DEMAND allegience." No. Many of the churches have "His Truth in it" and many do not "DEMAND allegiance".
 

pia

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"We either belong to Jesus, or we belong to whatever affiliation we have tied ourselves to." No. There are many on this site who belong to a local church, but belong, first and foremost, to the Lord Jesus. You seem to look at the local church as a hindrance to the worship of God, to sanctification, to Godliness and holiness, to submission to one another, to Christian fellowship, etc.

"Neither you or I 'approve' of the splintering, but neither do I believe that the institutionalized churches of ANY denomination, has His Truth in it, because it IS an IT.....concocted by various men across centuries, who DEMAND allegience." No. Many of the churches have "His Truth in it" and many do not "DEMAND allegiance".
Well good for you, but I have yet to find such a place.
 
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GodsGrace

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Your understanding of the Catholic Canon of Scripture is pathetic.

1 Cor. 6:16 has absolutely nothing to do with your warped view of the Catholic Church.
Paul is telling the Corinthians that their bodies are temples of the Holy spirit and that they should behave in such a manner. The "harlot" he speaks of is NOT an institution - but an actual harlot.

Don't you ever tire of being proven wrong??
Hi BofL

Just want to confirm that you're right about 1 Corinthians 6:16.
It's plain as day for those who WANT to see it.
 

GodsGrace

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Don't you ever tire of being wrong, Perrero??
Allow me to educate you . . .

First of all - you're WRONG when you say that I believe that ALL non-Catholics are "lost". This is a lie of your own invention because this is neither what I believe - NOR what the Church teaches.

I believe what Jesus taught and what His Church has ALWAYS taught.
John 39:41
Jesus said: It is for judgement that I have come into this world, so that those without sight may see and those with sight may become blind.
Hearing this, some Pharisees who were present said to him, 'So we are blind, are we?'
Jesus replied: If you were blind, you would not be guilty, but since you say, 'We can see,' your guilt remains.

John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin; but as it is they have no excuse for their sin.


Catechism of the Catholic Church
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337



YOU don't fit that description because YOU have been told and you still reject Him.
HI BoL

I have one simple question for you:
Does the Church we belong to save us
Or does Jesus save us?

I do agree with you that th C C is the Church that as present from the beginning.
Anyone disagreeing with this just doesn't know Church history very well.

I also agree that, althouh the reformation was needed at that time due to what was happening in the C C, it DID splinter our faith into many different beliefs which are incorrect but yet preached today.

The split also caused millions of Death because Kings took advantage of this split to declare their own religion on other countries, but only for political gain - so religion was used for their own purposes.

Having said all that, I MUST believe that JESUS saves us and not any church.
Men are not perfect and the churches they establish are not perfect and so it's difficult for me to count on any church -although some are better than Others.

I can count only on the perfect One: Our Lord.
 
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BreadOfLife

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HI BoL

I have one simple question for you:
Does the Church we belong to save us
Or does Jesus save us?

I do agree with you that th C C is the Church that as present from the beginning.
Anyone disagreeing with this just doesn't know Church history very well.

I also agree that, althouh the reformation was needed at that time due to what was happening in the C C, it DID splinter our faith into many different beliefs which are incorrect but yet preached today.

The split also caused millions of Death because Kings took advantage of this split to declare their own religion on other countries, but only for political gain - so religion was used for their own purposes.

Having said all that, I MUST believe that JESUS saves us and not any church.
Men are not perfect and the churches they establish are not perfect and so it's difficult for me to count on any church -although some are better than Others.

I can count only on the perfect One: Our Lord.
We are saved by God's grace via the blood of Christ alone.
However, we are saved through His Church because this is the vehicle that God uses to reveal his Truth.

It was His Church that wrote, compiled and declared the Canon of Scripture.
Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL truth (John 16:12-16).
 

BreadOfLife

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Hi BofL

Just want to confirm that you're right about 1 Corinthians 6:16.
It's plain as day for those who WANT to see it.
Yes - this verse is talking about sexual impurity and has nothing to do with mjrhealth's views about the Catholic Church being the "Harlot of Babylon". If you continue to read the verses that follow, Paul is telling them that their bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.
 
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BreadOfLife

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In that case stop saying that all the splinter groups and lone-rangers are lost. Because in reality you have no clue about their standing with God. You need to get down from your ivory tower of judgment and allow God to save whoever He wills as He is not willing that any should perish. That's why there are revivals all over the world, in Muslim countries, in China, Philippines etc. not because of any church or denomination but because God can save without you or me, or with you or me.
I don't refer to your Protestant factions as "lost".
I refer to them as "perpetually-splintering" or "disjointed" or "divorced" - but not "lost".
Now it is you who lie. Your judgmental crystal ball doesn't know me from Adam. I've known and have a loving relationship with my Lord and Saviour for over 45 yrs now. And if it wasn't for someone who brought me the true Gospel, I'd be still stuck in my sin and the Catholic religion until this day. Thank you Jesus for showing me the difference between that dead religion and Your life giving relationship. Just a simple prayer of repentance and receiving You as Lord and Saviour. Now I don't have to light candles, kneel before idols, pray to dead saints, do stations of the cross, hope I make it to purgatory. I don't even need to go to confession because Jesus is my advocate before the Father and He forgives when I stumble and ask for His forgiveness. Why? Because I'm a child of the King and accepted in the Beloved.
I just hope you can say the same.
Then my earlier statement is that much more true. Since you claim to have been a Catholic before you don't have an excuse and probably won't be able to claim invincible ignorance.

You rebelled and left Christ's Church, which means your situation would be that much more dire . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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But dear BOL, that's just it......They did NOT do that, but He knows each and every one of His own, and THEY collectively make HIS CHURCH. Neither you or I 'approve' of the splintering, but neither do I believe that the institutionalized churches of ANY denomination, has His Truth in it, because it IS an IT.....concocted by various men across centuries, who DEMAND allegience.
The ONLY way I can see it is this ....We either belong to Jesus, or we belong to whatever affiliation we have tied ourselves to. We mustn't forget that as yet we see dimly, we don't have ALL the Truth yet, and neither does any institution.
I admire your tenacity, something or someone at one time in your life, convinced you of what you're saying, and you want to show your love for God, by following what you believe He wants, but you really should give some thought, to ASKING HIM, what he wants.........None of us want to be standing in front of Jesus and be asked :" What were you thinking? Why didn't you ask Me? I was right there with you the whole way.".............Be careful what you say and to whom, you may be calling the Lord a liar by proxy of the person who belongs to Him and has Him in them......Surely you wouldn't want to be doing that?
Praise the Lord forever Pia
And again, Pia - thousands and thousands of perpetually-splintering and bickering factions is not what Jesus willed.

In John 17, we see His fervent prayer to the Father asking Him to keep his flock as ONE - as He and the Father are ONE. This is not unity and this is not "ONE" Church, no matter how many times you tell yourself that it is.

Christ's Church is a VISIBLE entity - like a city on a hill that cannot be hidden (Matt. 5:14-16).
It's not thousands of groups teaching different doctrines yet ALL claiming to have the "truth" . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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No cause im always wrong and God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are always right. Something you may well find out when its to late for you. So nice to join the forum with a new flame being lit, makes me feel so warm in side.
Yup - God is always right.
YOUR perversion of His Word, however is usually wrong . . .
 

GodsGrace

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We are saved by God's grace via the blood of Christ alone.
However, we are saved through His Church because this is the vehicle that God uses to reveal his Truth.

It was His Church that wrote, compiled and declared the Canon of Scripture.
Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL truth (John 16:12-16).
Another way to say your signature line:
The man who accepts everything,
Believes nothing.

The church as a vehicle. OK.
As a dispneser of grace, not sure. Probably.
I do like ceremony. It helps kids to remember important things.
They remember the last day of school party.
Or the celebration of the baseball season win.
Why NOT remember the first communion?
Parents sometimes don't understand the importance because they abandoned their faith but to their child it's a very important day.

I'm very much against talk against the C C.
I wonder why we don't feel the same about Reformed churches whose doctrine has totally changed the character of God.

And those who speak of the Harlot of Babylon, parroting their pastors who should know better, might be surprised to find that the "Harlot" might be coming out of Mecca.

No mail please. I know little to nothing of eschatology, but I have it on good word.
 

pia

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Why? Because I'm a child of the King and accepted in the Beloved
Hi....Now this is a concise and true statement from start to finish... Bless you and Praise our Beloved for showing us the Way.
I haven't re-posted your whole post, as some don't like all that being attached. Stunning !
 

pia

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The Mysterious Word "Church" | Bein' a Berean
Anyone disagreeing with this just doesn't know Church history very well
Hi....Do you KNOW the actual history of the C C ? If you checked it out, I believe you would be absolutely shocked ! Or are you like other C C members, who just refuse to accept what history has shown, as well as the torture chambers of the Catholic church, STILL in it's original torture room, preserved now as a museum...... I almost fainted when I looked at those things, and the thought of how they used some of those awful instruments on ANYONE who wouldn't 'denounce' the devil and convert to Catholicism or even just convert.. .... Any person who can claim that the group who did these things were men of God, really need their head examined...........How about the Cardinal ( or Cardinals ) not sure how many were in the room, who were recently busted by police, who then found these 'men of the cloth' engaged in sex with young men and taking all sorts of highly illegal drugs like Heroin and cocaine...........According to some, who think the men of the C C's hierarchy are Gods special people, I would just say.......You need help, ASK JESUS !!! http://www.beinaberean.org/writings/church.html.....here is some of that history if interested.