Why water into wine?

[BreadOfLife]

Do you believe that there is NONE righteous, as Rom. 3:10 says?

Again, I never said God was not using Peter. He did. Peter, James, and John were of the inner circle in relationship to Christ in His eartly ministry. Christ was telling Peter to feed His sheep because Peter failed so miserably in denying Christ. Christ was trying to restore his faith.

That Peter would sill have a ministry, yes. That he was the leader of the Church, ridiculous. That he was ever a pope, more ridiculous. That Rome was ever given such authority over the Church, ridiculous.

Stranger

They ALL ran and hid and fell from faith (Matt. 26).
Jesus ONLY prayed for Peter - that HIS faith would not ultimately fail and that HE restore his brothers.

You're dancing all around the overwhelming Scriptural evidence I presented but you're not answering anything.

Cat got your tongue, Stanger??

 

[Stranger]

Do you believe that there is NONE righteous, as Rom. 3:10 says?
As for Baptism - Jesus gave the prescription (Matt. 28:19, John 3:5) - not Rome or any other city.

What does that have to do with anything we are talking about?

Again, I have no problem with baptism. I do have a problem with Roman baptism.

Again, do you believe all believers are saints. Go ahead...lie to me.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

They ALL ran and hid and fell from faith (Matt. 26).
Jesus ONLY prayed for Peter - that HIS faith would not ultimately fail and that HE restore his brothers.

You're dancing all around the overwhelming Scriptural evidence I presented but you're not answering anything.

Cat got your tongue, Stanger??

All abandoned Him. But only Peter rejected Him. As I said, the Scripture that tells Peter to feed my sheep, was for Peter, to restore his faith. It didn't make him the pope of the Church. It didn't make Rome the Church over all other churches.

I'm not dancing I am answering your lame questions. I noticed you have yet to answer mine.

Stranger

 

[pia]

Just one last thing.
Just as a married man and woman are ONE - so is Christ and His Church.

All those who "believe" in Christ are not part of His Church. All those who believe and OBEY Him and are baptized are part of His Church.
God demands obedience - not just "belief" - so, when you say that Jesus told you that all who simply "believe" are part of His Church, you are going against the Word of God.

Ok, as one last one from me also I will quote the EXACT response from Him , you can accept what He said or don't, as I have said before, it will not affect my salvation nor my relationship with Him..H having been an atheist until seeing Him like that, I asked ( my 3rd, question to Him ) :" Do I have to go to church now that You have come to see me ?"...
He reached both His arms toward me and said :" You are the church, PEOPLE are the church..If you are going to compare it to a building, then you are a brick in My church along with those who believe." ( understanding it as each one is a metaphorical brick in His church )...........
As I said, believe Him or don't. Each one of us will stand ON OUR OWN when the time comes, we can't point to someone else and say :' It's their fault, that's what they told me", or " But Lord, that's what they wrote about you."
He is ALIVE and well and ANYONE is welcome to come to Him in His resurrected state, and anyone is welcome to ask Him, seek Him and expect answers............But, He is no bully nor does He force Himself on people....
Now I truly think we have exhausted this subject....You are as convinced of your understanding of what has been written as I am about what He told me, and upon reading on it a bit further I do believe the Bible also makes it clear that His church is made of those PEOPLE who will believe in Him and come to Him, so that they may have LIFE.
But I am going to leave this with you now..........My suggestion would be for you to seek Him for the Truth, let Him become alive to you too and be blown away over what an amazing Lord we serve and what a beautiful relationship it is possible to have with Him....I think you would have the best time of your life, as He is amazing at explaining what has been written also, simply and concisely !
You may not want that, I don't know you, to say one way or the other....But I do, so STOP trying to get me to disbelieve Jesus, not that you could, but I could sadly end up a little frustrated, and I'm not prepared to let you do that to me. There is also the point that it's not good for you, not good for your 'heart' to keep writing things opposed to Him..You say you don't know so perhaps your ignorance can save you there, but I'm not certain how He sees those who try and try and try to get others to disbelieve Jesus Himself, as I KNOW that there are many others out there just like me, who have had Him revealed in their lives in one form or another, so as to make them witnesses with testimonies.
They KNOW who they are IN HIM, but many others do not yet have that, and you could turn them away from even trying to go to Christ.
I am at a loss why you would put such a thing upon yourself? To what end ?
BOL if you do write, write back from your heart. Try just this once to do so without any quoted scriptures, but from within YOU...

 

[BreadOfLife]

What does that have to do with anything we are talking about?

Again, I have no problem with baptism. I do have a problem with Roman baptism.

Again, do you believe all believers are saints. Go ahead...lie to me.

Stranger

What's "Roman" Baptism?
As far as I know there is no such thing.

Now - do you believe that there is "none righteous" as Matt. 3:10 states?
You all seem to whip that verse out when attacking Mary's sinlessness.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What's "Roman" Baptism?
As far as I know there is no such thing.

All abandoned Him. But only Peter rejected Him. As I said, the Scripture that tells Peter to feed my sheep, was for Peter, to restore his faith. It didn't make him the pope of the Church. It didn't make Rome the Church over all other churches.

I'm not dancing I am answering your lame questions. I noticed you have yet to answer mine.

Stranger

Jesus told him three times to tend His sheep and feed his lambs because of Peter's triple denial.
He reinstated Peter by again putting him in charge, as he did at Caserea-Philippi (Matt. 16:18-19).

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus told him three times to tend His sheep and feed his lambs because of Peter's triple denial.
He reinstated Peter by again putting him in charge, as he did at Caserea-Philippi (Matt. 16:18-19).

Jesus never did, still trying to justify the lie.

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

Calling Jesus a hypocrit, even God, saying one thing and meaning another

1Sa_8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Hasnt chaged even today, men putting men to rule over themselves instead of teh One chosen bu God. Jesus.

Isa_53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ok, as one last one from me also I will quote the EXACT response from Him , you can accept what He said or don't, as I have said before, it will not affect my salvation nor my relationship with Him..H having been an atheist until seeing Him like that, I asked ( my 3rd, question to Him ) :" Do I have to go to church now that You have come to see me ?"...
He reached both His arms toward me and said :" You are the church, PEOPLE are the church..If you are going to compare it to a building, then you are a brick in My church along with those who believe." ( understanding it as each one is a metaphorical brick in His church )...........
As I said, believe Him or don't. Each one of us will stand ON OUR OWN when the time comes, we can't point to someone else and say :' It's their fault, that's what they told me", or " But Lord, that's what they wrote about you."
He is ALIVE and well and ANYONE is welcome to come to Him in His resurrected state, and anyone is welcome to ask Him, seek Him and expect answers............But, He is no bully nor does He force Himself on people....
Now I truly think we have exhausted this subject....You are as convinced of your understanding of what has been written as I am about what He told me, and upon reading on it a bit further I do believe the Bible also makes it clear that His church is made of those PEOPLE who will believe in Him and come to Him, so that they may have LIFE.
But I am going to leave this with you now..........My suggestion would be for you to seek Him for the Truth, let Him become alive to you too and be blown away over what an amazing Lord we serve and what a beautiful relationship it is possible to have with Him....I think you would have the best time of your life, as He is amazing at explaining what has been written also, simply and concisely !
You may not want that, I don't know you, to say one way or the other....But I do, so STOP trying to get me to disbelieve Jesus, not that you could, but I could sadly end up a little frustrated, and I'm not prepared to let you do that to me. There is also the point that it's not good for you, not good for your 'heart' to keep writing things opposed to Him..You say you don't know so perhaps your ignorance can save you there, but I'm not certain how He sees those who try and try and try to get others to disbelieve Jesus Himself, as I KNOW that there are many others out there just like me, who have had Him revealed in their lives in one form or another, so as to make them witnesses with testimonies.
They KNOW who they are IN HIM, but many others do not yet have that, and you could turn them away from even trying to go to Christ.
I am at a loss why you would put such a thing upon yourself? To what end ?
BOL if you do write, write back from your heart. Try just this once to do so without any quoted scriptures, but from within YOU...

Pia, I DO know Him and I obey Him as best I can as a flawed human being. I receive Him spiritually and physically in the Eucharist. I obey His earthly Authority, which is the Church.

I'm not trying to get you to "disbelieve" Jesus, as you accuse me. I simply don't believe that Jesus is a hypocrite.
He is the Word of God itself - and the Word tells us that we must submit to His Church (Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16) and NOT to forsake the assembling of the Church (Heb. 10:25).

In the end - you will have to face God in judgement - not me. Believe what you want to - but if you continue to imply that Jesus is a hypocrite - then I will challenge you at every turn.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus never did, still trying to justify the lie.

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

Calling Jesus a hypocrit, even God, saying one thing and meaning another

1Sa_8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Hasnt chaged even today, men putting men to rule over themselves instead of teh One chosen bu God. Jesus.

Isa_53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Thanks for quoting the Catholic Canon of the NT again. Too bad you don't know what it means . . .

EVERY Church has leadership - even the "Generals" at your online cult "aggressivechristianity.net."
Why do you think the Word of God says the following, Einstein??

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and WHO ARE OVER YOU IN THE LORD and who admonish you

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the ELDERS THAT RULE well be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOR, especially they who labor in the word and doctrine.

 

[mjrhealth]

Thanks for quoting the Catholic Canon of the NT again. Too bad you don't know what it means . . .

No thats why i quote the bible. Seems you have run out of lies to tell. Thats ok. Jesus has heard them all.

EVERY Church has leadership - even the "Generals" at your online cult "aggressivechristianity.net."
Why do you think the Word of God says the following, Einstein??

Yes BOL trying to kill everyone who proves Him wrong. Sorry the devil has already had a go, it seems his children cant help themselves.

Oh thats right teh bible was put together by a corrupt religion that corrupted it. All lies all built on lies, but thats who teh deceiver is a liar and a deceiver. Keep at it BOL, you will never surpass your father

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

A son of your church and very proud of it we can see,

 

[pia]

Pia, I DO know Him and I obey Him as best I can as a flawed human being. I receive Him spiritually and physically in the Eucharist. I obey His earthly Authority, which is the Church.

I'm not trying to get you to "disbelieve" Jesus, as you accuse me. I simply don't believe that Jesus is a hypocrite.
He is the Word of God itself - and the Word tells us that we must submit to His Church (Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16) and NOT to forsake the assembling of the Church (Heb. 10:25).

In the end - you will have to face God in judgement - not me. Believe what you want to - but if you continue to imply that Jesus is a hypocrite - then I will challenge you at every turn.

I see you as doing that ! I'm done BOL. I have had more than enough of this. You can try to replace the real living Word, with what men say, I will follow and believe what He ( the Living word of the Living God )told me. Taste of Him as you please, but from now on leave me completely out of it, it is truly starting to sicken me deep within my spirit.
So, goodbye and good luck with your studies...

 

[Stranger]

What's "Roman" Baptism?
As far as I know there is no such thing.

Now - do you believe that there is "none righteous" as Matt. 3:10 states?
You all seem to whip that verse out when attacking Mary's sinlessness.

Roman baptism is the baptism of the Roman church. You know what it is.

Again, what does (Rom. 3:10) have to do with what we are talking about? Yes, I believe (Rom. 3:10) that there is none righteous.

Now, again, do you believe all believers are saints?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Jesus told him three times to tend His sheep and feed his lambs because of Peter's triple denial.
He reinstated Peter by again putting him in charge, as he did at Caserea-Philippi (Matt. 16:18-19).

Nothing there about Peter being put over the Church or that the Roman Church is to be over the churches. If Peter was now in charge, why didn't he take charge. He didn't. It is Paul who becomes the central figure in founding the Church. Not Peter. If Peter was in charge he should have been chastising Paul instead of taking it from Paul.

Christ did not 'reinstate' Peter, because Peter never was in charge. He restored Peters faith.

Have you ever noticed (John 21:22). Jesus had just told Peter to follow him though it would cost his death. (21:18-19) Peter asked Jesus then about John, what was to become of him. Jesus said in (22) "...If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."

You see? Jesus didn't speak to Peter as if he were given authority over the Church. He said, "What is that to thee". You follow and don't worry about John. That is between Jesus and John.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

No thats why i quote the bible. Seems you have run out of lies to tell. Thats ok. Jesus has heard them all.

EVERY Church has leadership - even the "Generals" at your online cult "aggressivechristianity.net."
Why do you think the Word of God says the following, Einstein??

Yes BOL trying to kill everyone who proves Him wrong. Sorry the devil has already had a go, it seems his children cant help themselves.

Oh thats right teh bible was put together by a corrupt religion that corrupted it. All lies all built on lies, but thats who teh deceiver is a liar and a deceiver. Keep at it BOL, you will never surpass your father

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
A son of your church and very proud of it we can see,

And if it's "all lies" - why do YOU quote it??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Roman baptism is the baptism of the Roman church. You know what it is.
Again, what does (Rom. 3:10) have to do with what we are talking about? Yes, I believe (Rom. 3:10) that there is none righteous.
Now, again, do you believe all believers are saints?

Stranger

If "none" are righteous - why does James tell us that the prayers of a "righteous" person are powerful (James 5:16)??
The Communion of Saints includes those praying for us on earth (the UN-righteous) and those in Heaven (the Righteous).

You accept James 5:16 - and you CLAIM to believe in the Communion of Saints - yet you reject that those in Heaven are part of it.
Complete hypocrisy.

As for "Roman" Baptism - you still haven't explained what it is.
What is "Roman" Baptism as opposed to Christian Baptism??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nothing there about Peter being put over the Church or that the Roman Church is to be over the churches. If Peter was now in charge, why didn't he take charge. He didn't. It is Paul who becomes the central figure in founding the Church. Not Peter. If Peter was in charge he should have been chastising Paul instead of taking it from Paul.

Christ did not 'reinstate' Peter, because Peter never was in charge. He restored Peters faith.

Have you ever noticed (John 21:22). Jesus had just told Peter to follow him though it would cost his death. (21:18-19) Peter asked Jesus then about John, what was to become of him. Jesus said in (22) "...If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."

You see? Jesus didn't speak to Peter as if he were given authority over the Church. He said, "What is that to thee". You follow and don't worry about John. That is between Jesus and John.

Stranger

No - Jesus didn't "restore" Peter's faith in John 21:15-19. His faith was ALREADY restored when he saw the risen Lord. Jesus breathed on them and He gave them the power to forgive sins or hold them bound (John 20:20-23).
Remember - in Luke 22:31-32, Jesus prayed for Peter - that his faith would NOT fail so he could restore the faith of the other Apostles.

According to Protestant translations of Scripture, like the NIV and NKJV, Jesus reinstated Peter in John 21:15-19.
The weight of Scripture is against you at every turn, Stranger . . .

 

[Stranger]

If "none" are righteous - why does James tell us that the prayers of a "righteous" person are powerful (James 5:16)??
The Communion of Saints includes those praying for us on earth (the UN-righteous) and those in Heaven (the Righteous).

You accept James 5:16 - and you CLAIM to believe in the Communion of Saints - yet you reject that those in Heaven are part of it.
Complete hypocrisy.

As for "Roman" Baptism - you still haven't explained what it is.
What is "Roman" Baptism as opposed to Christian Baptism??

The righteousness of (Rom. 3:10) is mans righteousness. We as believers do have a true righteousness, but it is the righteousness of Christ. (Rom. 3:21-22). You just needed to read a little more.

Yes, I believe (James 5:16). And I believe in the communion of the saints. There is nothing in Scripture that says we are to pray to the saints or have the saints pray for us.

Roman baptism is infant baptism which washes away original sin.

Now, I continue to answer your questions, so when will you answer mine? Do you believe all believers are saints?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

No - Jesus didn't "restore" Peter's faith in John 21:15-19. His faith was ALREADY restored when he saw the risen Lord. Jesus breathed on them and He gave them the power to forgive sins or hold them bound (John 20:20-23).
Remember - in Luke 22:31-32, Jesus prayed for Peter - that his faith would NOT fail so he could restore the faith of the other Apostles.

According to Protestant translations of Scripture, like the NIV and NKJV, Jesus reinstated Peter in John 21:15-19.
The weight of Scripture is against you at every turn, Stranger . . .

(John 21:21-22) "Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."

Jesus was clear. Don't worry about other believers Peter. You worry about yourself. Shame Rome couldn't do that.

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

And if it's "all lies" - why do YOU quote it??

eh bible actually contains some truth even though you have to get through all that corruption to find it, you actually quote it, but like the devil twist it to your own end, which is something you will one day have to answer for, and besides ads I said, christians dont believe God they only believe the bible.

Jer 23:36 And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God.

Still one day hope to see you on teh other side, you are clearly very good at tearing down, hope to one day see you build up.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The righteousness of (Rom. 3:10) is mans righteousness. We as believers do have a true righteousness, but it is the righteousness of Christ. (Rom. 3:21-22). You just needed to read a little more.

Yes, I believe (James 5:16). And I believe in the communion of the saints. There is nothing in Scripture that says we are to pray to the saints or have the saints pray for us.

Roman baptism is infant baptism which washes away original sin.

Now, I continue to answer your questions, so when will you answer mine? Do you believe all believers are saints?

Stranger

No - I don't.

James 2:19 tells us that even the DEMONS believe.
Are they saints??

As for Romans 3:10 - it says that there is NONE righteous. If you are "covered" by the righteousness of Christ (which Scripture does NOT claim) YOU are still unrighteous.
Only those in Heaven, who have been MADE righteous are righteous. You can only believe in the Communion of saints if you believe that the prayers of the members of the Body of Christ in Heaven are efficacious. You've invented a different doctrine that the Communion of the Saints.

James 5:16 tells us that the prayers of a RIGHTEOUS person are very powerful.
This leaves you in a contradictory Protestant quandary . . .