Why water into wine?

[pia]

I am a Christian, and as one, I am called to hold my fellow Christians accountable.
Just as, if I speak something that isn't true - YOU, as a Christian should hold ME accountable.

Although - MANY of the doctrines being preached around here are hardly Christian . . .

Actually - I agree with much of what you said about Scripture. It's NOT the entire Word of God - and that is a very Catholic teaching. The Word of God is revealed in BOTH Scripture AND Sacred Tradition. And that's about where I stop agreeing with you . . .

You speak of "churches" - and there is only ONE Church (Matt. 16:18).

You use the following verse out of context: "You cannot serve two masters."
Jesus wasn't talking about His Church - but material wealth. You an others like mjrhealth simply don't have a complete understanding as to what Christ's Church actually is - so allow me to educated you with the Biblical definition:

- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.

- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).

- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).

- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).

- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

It's not TWO masters: Christ OR the Church.
The Church IS Christ on earth.

I agree with most of what you wrote in blue...One thing I learned is that yes there is only one church, His church, His bride, made up of those who believe in Him, and that came straight from His mouth, so no one on this planet or beyond is ever going to dissuade me from that...Since He has not yet been joined to His Bride ( as yet, she is not one in herself ), He is not the church on earth, He HAS His Church on earth, and when the time comes, there will be a full joining and they will finally be truly ONE.
We can be one individually with Him for now, and even with some others, but it will take Him, to bring us all together in complete 100% unity.......No more broken body.
Thank you very much for your reply this time, without the 'you know what'........I know for an absolute fact, that I cannot quote scripture as you can do, nor do I understand very much of it ( other than the things He has taught and shown me), but I am willing to bide my time, pray about understanding, and wait on the Lord for the answers, and some have taken years, because to understand one thing, we often have to understand other things, to get the fuller picture.
His advice to us is and was "Have faith in God' Not in other humans, not in groups of humans, no matter how well meaning, not in any other thing or being...He and only He is ALWAYS Truthful, Faithful, Righteous, Comforting, Helpful, Joyful, Peaceful etc. etc. but most of all He is ALWAYS Loving...
Have a truly lovely day In Him Pia

 

[Jun2u]

Don't you see? Mocking and Scoffing ARE a different gospel! Love of God and Neighbor is the True Gospel. You are mistaking Doctrine for Gospel

Jesus called the Jews hypocrites. Was He mocking or scoffing them?

I believe it is you who is mistaken. Doctrine and gospel is synonymous. When a believer witnesses the Gospel to a non-believer he is said to be teaching the doctrine of Jesus Christ! Proof-text Matthew 28:19-20.

Most people do NOT understand the phrase, "Love God with all your heart, and the second is like it; love your neighbor as thyself" (paraphrased). If you don't know the meaning of any terms don't quote it.

To God Be The Glory

 

[aspen]

Jesus called the Jews hypocrites. Was He mocking or scoffing them?

I believe it is you who is mistaken. Doctrine and gospel is synonymous. When a believer witnesses the Gospel to a non-believer he is said to be teaching the doctrine of Jesus Christ! Proof-text Matthew 28:19-20.

Most people do NOT understand the phrase, "Love God with all your heart, and the second is like it; love your neighbor as thyself" (paraphrased). If you don't know the meaning of any terms don't quote it.

To God Be The Glory

No. I have as much right to comment as you do.

Doctrine is the language of the gospel. Gospel is the action of loving others. Yes we are called to love others as we love ourselves - people who are not living from their true self are ego driven - they are ruled by drives and impulses. It is impossible to be vulnerable enough to love if you are living in your false self/ego.

 

[pia]

No. I have as much right to comment as you do.

Doctrine is the language of the gospel. Gospel is the action of loving others. Yes we are called to love others as we love ourselves - people who are not living from their true self are ego driven - they are ruled by drives and impulses. It is impossible to be vulnerable enough to love if you are living in your false self/ego.

Truly....without us receiving FULLY His Love for us, we cannot even begin to love ourselves, even less... others ! The first Love written of is His love for us......" We love Him, because He first loved us." I think you may find it in John.
He showed me a long time ago, we cannot give to others, what we do not have....Taught me a lot, that one sentence..

 

[aspen]

Truly....without us receiving FULLY His Love for us, we cannot even begin to love ourselves, even less... others ! The first Love written of is His love for us......" We love Him, because He first loved us." I think you may find it in John.
He showed me a long time ago, we cannot give to others, what we do not have....Taught me a lot, that one sentence..

Yeah, I agree.

 

[perrero]

I do.
If I did not, I would certainly be in trouble, no matter how political I might be.

"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut 32:4

Is not eternal torment the JUST reward of those who reject God (Satan, his demons and sinners)?

 

[aspen]

Is not eternal torment the JUST reward of those who reject God (Satan, his demons and sinners)?

Personally, I would have to say no.

Of course, it is not up to me and my opinion is not relevant; but it is hard for me to consider punishing my own creation for not being ethical or playing by the rules.

 

[mjrhealth]

And again - if you hold such little regard for the Bible - WHY do you constantly quote it??

Because you dont listen to God if you did I would not have to. How many times do we go around this circle. You want teh truth it is in Christ .

 

[Woman On A Mission]

When you think of it, the majority of the people at the wedding didn’t even know he did it. The servants knew and perhaps His disciples did, but certainly the festive crowd didn’t. So what was the reason for that? Why not heel 10 lepers? That would have been spectacular. Or, what about delivering a demonized individual? That could have been more sensational. Better still, Jesus could have raised a dead person. Now that’s what I call dramatic.

Thank you for that teaching on Jesus first miracle. I totally understand what you mean why was the miracle of turning water into wine? Why is it that the gospels not mention the healing of the 10 lepers? or delivering a demonised individual or raised a dead person?

I believe that the miracle was the beginning of signs by Jesus so important. The answer is in John 2:11 This beginning of signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory; and His disciples believed in Him.
This happened the day after Jesus Baptism. This is the first miracle that the disciples witnessed and BELIEVED.

John is the only gospel that records "The Miracle Of Wine Into Water"

Verse 19, says And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

This happened The first day that John The Baptist came out from the wilderness and began baptising.

Verse 29, says The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. Jesus baptised.
Chapter 2:Verse 1, And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
So why does Jesus perform His first miracle at a marriage ceremony.
Hebrews 13:4, Marriage is honourable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
The Parable of the Wedding Feast Luke 14:7-14, directly precedes the Parable of the Great Banquet Luke 14:15-24, Parallel passage of the Great Banquet is set as a wedding feast Matthew 22:1-14,
Bible Verses About The Bride Of Christ:
Ephesians 5:25-27, Revelation 19:7-9, Revelation 21:2,9-11, John 3:29,

Thank you again for your post.. In Jesus Name, To God be the Glory. Shalom

 

[bbyrd009]

Personally, I would have to say no.

Of course, it is not up to me and my opinion is not relevant; but it is hard for me to consider punishing my own creation for not being ethical or playing by the rules.

imo we posit this "torment" as flames of fire on skin, but of course this is only meant to be an analogy. A father who has just learned that his 14 year old daughter is pregnant might be in "torment."

 

[Woman On A Mission]

Where's scripture that says that Jesus turning water into wine has meanings?

John 2:11, This beginning of signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory; and His disciples believed in Him.
This says it quite clear, Jesus manifested His glory and THE DISCIPLES BELIEVED HIM.

 

[bbyrd009]

(strictly as an aside here)
...wherein we see how quickly "had faith in Him" becomes "believed Him," through "believed in Him." so now they only believed He was telling a truth or whatever iow, and "faith" becomes "belief," equated with tooth fairies and Santa Clauses et al

 

[BreadOfLife]

And I never claimed you were.
Why do you continue to lie?? Is telling the truth THAT abhorrent to you??

 

[BreadOfLife]

I agree with most of what you wrote in blue...One thing I learned is that yes there is only one church, His church, His bride, made up of those who believe in Him, and that came straight from His mouth, so no one on this planet or beyond is ever going to dissuade me from that...Since He has not yet been joined to His Bride ( as yet, she is not one in herself ), He is not the church on earth, He HAS His Church on earth, and when the time comes, there will be a full joining and they will finally be truly ONE.
We can be one individually with Him for now, and even with some others, but it will take Him, to bring us all together in complete 100% unity.......No more broken body.
Thank you very much for your reply this time, without the 'you know what'........I know for an absolute fact, that I cannot quote scripture as you can do, nor do I understand very much of it ( other than the things He has taught and shown me), but I am willing to bide my time, pray about understanding, and wait on the Lord for the answers, and some have taken years, because to understand one thing, we often have to understand other things, to get the fuller picture.
His advice to us is and was "Have faith in God' Not in other humans, not in groups of humans, no matter how well meaning, not in any other thing or being...He and only He is ALWAYS Truthful, Faithful, Righteous, Comforting, Helpful, Joyful, Peaceful etc. etc. but most of all He is ALWAYS Loving...
Have a truly lovely day In Him Pia

Individuals?? "Broken Body"??
Where do you get this stuff?? Certainly NOT from Scripture.

Jesus said that His Church was like "a city on a hill that cannot be hidden" (Matt. 5:14).

He prayed to the Father that His Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23).
His Church IS ONE. The tens of thousands of divorced factions of Protestantism, while related to the ONE Church, are outside of it - voluntarily.

The one thing YOU need to realize is that Jesus DID leave His earthly Church in the hands of humans - and that's why He sent the Holy Spirit to guide it to ALL truth (John 16:12-15). If you can't accept that - then you are reading a different Bible than everybody else . . .

 

[Jun2u]

John 2:11, This beginning of signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory; and His disciples believed in Him.
This says it quite clear, Jesus manifested His glory and THE DISCIPLES BELIEVED HIM.

G

Please read Post #14

To God Be The Glory

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I'm new here but I'm all for a good glass of wine.
Join me?

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm new here but I'm all for a good glass of wine.
Join me?

that is exactly the color of wine one should drink if they eat a lot of eggs

 

[Jun2u]

No. I have as much right to comment as you do.

Doctrine is the language of the gospel. Gospel is the action of loving others. Yes we are called to love others as we love ourselves - people who are not living from their true self are ego driven - they are ruled by drives and impulses. It is impossible to be vulnerable enough to love if you are living in your false self/ego.

No one is prohibiting you from making a comment, but when you do, make sure you understand what you are trying to convey.

Now you are teaching that doctrine is the language of the Gospel? Where in Scripture do you find that the Gospel is the action of loving others? The Bible teaches all have sinned and are under the wrath of God but God also declares there is Good News (Gospel) in the Lord Jesus!

It is obvious we do not have the same understanding of the Gospel of God.

To God Be The Glory

 

[aspen]

No one is prohibiting you from making a comment, but when you do, make sure you understand what you are trying to convey.

Now you are teaching that doctrine is the language of the Gospel? Where in Scripture do you find that the Gospel is the action of loving others? The Bible teaches all have sinned and are under the wrath of God but God also declares there is Good News (Gospel) in the Lord Jesus!

It is obvious we do not have the same understanding of the Gospel of God.

To God Be The Glory

1. I am not teaching anything. I am giving my opinion on a message board.
2. Doctrine vs. Gospel is a long standing debate, full of differing opinions; I am sharing mine

 

[pia]

Individuals?? "Broken Body"??
Where do you get this stuff?? Certainly NOT from Scripture.

Jesus said that His Church was like "a city on a hill that cannot be hidden" (Matt. 5:14).

He prayed to the Father that His Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23).
His Church IS ONE. The tens of thousands of divorced factions of Protestantism, while related to the ONE Church, are outside of it - voluntarily.

The one thing YOU need to realize is that Jesus DID leave His earthly Church in the hands of humans - and that's why He sent the Holy Spirit to guide it to ALL truth (John 16:12-15). If you can't accept that - then you are reading a different Bible than everybody else . . .

This is getting all sideways again.....In human ( Spirit filled ) hands........yes !....... Are we one yet........NO !
Anyway BOL, we don't seem to have anything much to add to one another, and when we're not adding to our faith, love, patience etc. we're taking away from it. so I will bow out.....I wish you all the best, and perhaps we'll see each other at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb........