Will the real "Antichrist" please stand up?

[shturt678]

No Jack, you are way off the Truth of Scripture!
I think now it's time to call a halt, as far as I am concerned; as what has been given to you has not impacted!
Once more:

The "Age" of the Gentiles is not yet over.
When it is, the "Day of Jehovah" will start.

Thank you for your response again, and caring!

I think we need to back up to "What it is," rather than "When it is,"? "Day of the Lord" for example IIThess.2:2, "day of the Lord is (already) present" = / = "the Parousia" - 2nd Advent. The "Day of the Lord" is summed up in IIThess.1:10; 5:15-17, that is, a timeless day when the clock of time has ceased to run.



The 5th kingdom of Dan.2 will be evident, with Satan controlling.
The "Tribulation" the Great one, will commence when the Anti-Christ breaks his covenant with Israel.
Israel will experience the "latter days" Jacob's Trouble, for 3.5 years. Jacob's Trouble
Partly simultaneously "God's wrath" will be visited on the Gentile nations; for their bad treatment of the Jews over 2 millennia , and for their rejection of the offer of Christ's Salvation.
Christ will return to rescue remnant Israel; which will be the nucleus of the future "Jeshurun".
Satan will be bound for the first time, for one thousand years.
During the Millennial Reign of Christ/God, the "curse" of Eden is still in place, people will still sin, but be dealt with swiftly directly by Christ!
At the end of Millennial, Satan will be released again by God to "again deceive the nations"; just prior to his and his people being destroyed.

This the last post from me to you on this and related subjects Jack.

Bon-voyage.

Floyd.

We're so far apart that we need to address one issue at a time,

Old Jack's opinion

The following events take place prior to the 1000 year millenium.

Thank you for your response and caring again!

The following events more so take place during the 1000 year millennium that began at the Cross, Savior's Resurrection, and Enthronement ending with Satan's personal loosing (Rev.20:7) soon followed by the ending of the world with Jesus' 2nd Coming (Rev.20:9-15).



Devastating earthquake and hailstorm (Revelation 16:18-21 Revelation 6:14-17).

Rev.6:12-17 = the end of the world with Jesus' 2nd Coming = Rev.20:9-15.

Second coming of Jesus for His saints (Matthew 24:30, 31).

Matt.24:29, etc. = Rev.6 = Rev.20 = The whole siderial world shall collapse.

Righteous dead raised to life (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).

1. Righteous given immortality (1 Corinthians 15:51-55).
   
2. Righteous given bodies like Jesus (1 John 3:2 Philippians 3:21).
   
3. All righteous caught up into the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
   
4. Living wicked slain by the breath of the Lord's mouth (Isaiah 11:4).
   
5. Wicked in graves remain dead until the end of the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:5).
   
6. Jesus takes righteous to heaven (John 13:33, 36 14:1-3).
   
7. Satan bound (Revelation 20:1-3).

The following events take place during the millenium.

1. Earth in battered condition from huge hailstones and devastating earthquake (Revelation 16:18-21 6:14-17).
   
2. Earth in total blackout/bottomless pit (Jeremiah 4:23, 28).
   
3. Satan and his angels forced to stay on the earth/bound (Revelation 20:1-3).
   
4. Righteous in heaven participating in the judgment (Revelation 20:4).
   
5. Wicked are all dead (Jeremiah 4:25 Isaiah 11:4).

The following events take place at the close of the millenium.

1. Third coming of Jesus with His saints (Zechariah 14:5).
   
2. Holy city settles on mount of Olives, which becomes a great plain (Zechariah 14:4, 10).
   
3. The Father, angels, and all of the righteous come with Jesus (Revelation 21:1-3 Matthew 25:31 Zechariah 14:5).
   
4. Wicked dead raised Satan loosed (Revelation 20:5, 7).
   
5. Satan deceives entire world (Revelation 20:8).
   
6. Wicked surround the holy city (Revelation 20:9).
   
7. Wicked destroyed by fire (Revelation 20:9).
   
8. New heavens and earth created (Isaiah 65:17 2 Peter 3:13 Revelation 21:1).
   
9. God's people enjoy eternity with Christ on the new earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

Old Jack's opinion

 

[brakelite]

Hello Jack, always a pleasure to chat with you. I appreciate your perspective on the millenium and the binding of the devil. You are most certainly not alone with this view. May I however offer an explanation why I disagree?
First, let us look at the actual passage in question.

Revel.20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The original word used in the Greek for 'bottomless pit' is 'abussos', or as we translate it literally in English, abyss. The same word is used in the Greek OT in

Genesis 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Genesis account of creation we see that prior to God's creative work, the earth was "without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep".This is very interesting, in that what we have is the same word describing the earth in its totally dark, disorganized and desolate form before creation, "deep", "bottomless pit" and "abyss". Now as far as we undersatnd, the earth before creation was a lifelessdark sea. How it got here before creation is another story, but what is interesting is that Jeremiah speaks of a time when the earth may be similarly described as being dark, empty, and lifeless. We see this in .....

Jer. 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

...and we also see that Isaiah speaks of the binding of the devil here....

Isaiah 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Besides what we see here, that the earth that Satan is bound in is a lifeless empty void, and not the abode of todays inhabitants or of any future second-chancers, there is also the matter of the resurrections. One resurrection introduces the earth to the millenium, another at the close of the millenium. Jesus spoke also of two resurrections...

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Now we know that Jesus here is not in any way referring to His own resurrection, not to the few who were raised at that time and were taken to glory with Him as first fruits. No, no. Jesus is here referring specifically to the two general resurrection at the end of time...the first for the living righteous and those who had died in Christ that we see Paul and others speaking of as the 'blessed hope', and which we know takes place at the time of the second coming, and the second resurrection which brings to life all that had died throughout all ages without that hope, without salvation. Theyy are raised to be judged before being cast into the fire and be destroyed.
The timing of these resurrections will inform us of the timing of the 1000 years.
So when is the first resurrection?

1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The first resurrection is at the time of Jesus' second coming. So when is the second resurrection?

Rev. 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Do not be fooled by the last part of verse 5...this refers to the resurrection of the righteous, which has already taken place at the second coming. The "rest of the dead" spoken of in the first part of verse 5 are the wicked. They are raised at the close of the 1000 years, And it is at this time that Satan is loosed from his chain, and is once again able to go forth among all nations, peoples and tongues to deceive. Why is this so? Why couldn't he do this before? Because the righteous were in heaven with Christ, and the wicked weren't raised yet, but were dead for the entire duration of the 1000 years. Satan was restricted in al that he would normally do by a chain of circumstances ...on an earth that is empty, and void of all life, dark, and desolate.

It is at this time when the new Jerusalem descends from heaven and rests upon the flaatened plain in Israel, and inside is the Father, Jesus, all the angels, and all the redeemed whose names were written in the Lamb's book of life. Outside, the city is surrounded by Satan's newly formed army of the wicked from all ages. Great generals and warriors of days past are once again deceived into believing that there only hope of any future life is to take over the city and take the throne. A forlorn hope indeed but desperate times call for desperate measures. Naturally they fail. The fire of God falls from heaven anddestroys them all. Satan...his demons...and the wicked all destroyed in the fire that also cleanses the earth of all the decay and corruption that the previous 7000 years of sin and wickedness had deposited. And we get to witness the new creation of a new heavens and a new earth where righteousness reigns forever, and all sin and sinners no longer exist, nor will they ever come to mind.

God bless.

 

[shturt678]

Hello Jack, always a pleasure to chat with you. I appreciate your perspective on the millenium and the binding of the devil. You are most certainly not alone with this view. May I however offer an explanation why I disagree?
First, let us look at the actual passage in question.

Revel.20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The original word used in the Greek for 'bottomless pit' is 'abussos', or as we translate it literally in English, abyss. The same word is used in the Greek OT in

Genesis 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Genesis account of creation we see that prior to God's creative work, the earth was "without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep".This is very interesting, in that what we have is the same word describing the earth in its totally dark, disorganized and desolate form before creation, "deep", "bottomless pit" and "abyss". Now as far as we undersatnd, the earth before creation was a lifelessdark sea. How it got here before creation is another story, but what is interesting is that Jeremiah speaks of a time when the earth may be similarly described as being dark, empty, and lifeless. We see this in .....

Jer. 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

...and we also see that Isaiah speaks of the binding of the devil here....

Isaiah 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Besides what we see here, that the earth that Satan is bound in is a lifeless empty void, and not the abode of todays inhabitants or of any future second-chancers, there is also the matter of the resurrections. One resurrection introduces the earth to the millenium, another at the close of the millenium. Jesus spoke also of two resurrections...

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Now we know that Jesus here is not in any way referring to His own resurrection, not to the few who were raised at that time and were taken to glory with Him as first fruits. No, no. Jesus is here referring specifically to the two general resurrection at the end of time...the first for the living righteous and those who had died in Christ that we see Paul and others speaking of as the 'blessed hope', and which we know takes place at the time of the second coming, and the second resurrection which brings to life all that had died throughout all ages without that hope, without salvation. Theyy are raised to be judged before being cast into the fire and be destroyed.
The timing of these resurrections will inform us of the timing of the 1000 years.
So when is the first resurrection?

1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The first resurrection is at the time of Jesus' second coming. So when is the second resurrection?

Rev. 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Do not be fooled by the last part of verse 5...this refers to the resurrection of the righteous, which has already taken place at the second coming. The "rest of the dead" spoken of in the first part of verse 5 are the wicked. They are raised at the close of the 1000 years, And it is at this time that Satan is loosed from his chain, and is once again able to go forth among all nations, peoples and tongues to deceive. Why is this so? Why couldn't he do this before? Because the righteous were in heaven with Christ, and the wicked weren't raised yet, but were dead for the entire duration of the 1000 years. Satan was restricted in al that he would normally do by a chain of circumstances ...on an earth that is empty, and void of all life, dark, and desolate.

It is at this time when the new Jerusalem descends from heaven and rests upon the flaatened plain in Israel, and inside is the Father, Jesus, all the angels, and all the redeemed whose names were written in the Lamb's book of life. Outside, the city is surrounded by Satan's newly formed army of the wicked from all ages. Great generals and warriors of days past are once again deceived into believing that there only hope of any future life is to take over the city and take the throne. A forlorn hope indeed but desperate times call for desperate measures. Naturally they fail. The fire of God falls from heaven anddestroys them all. Satan...his demons...and the wicked all destroyed in the fire that also cleanses the earth of all the decay and corruption that the previous 7000 years of sin and wickedness had deposited. And we get to witness the new creation of a new heavens and a new earth where righteousness reigns forever, and all sin and sinners no longer exist, nor will they ever come to mind.

God bless.

Thank you for your response and going the mile!

I thought you did a very good job and wrapped up my day scrutinizing your work - good job! And thank you again for caring that much!

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]From a different angle, ie, not that it's valid. This binding (Rev.20:2, etc.) of Satan personally as here symbolized is mentioned with reference to "the nations." This reference to "deceiving the nations" must be understood in connection wtih the symbolism of the two beasts (Rev.13) and of the whore. Where is the dragon (Satan personally) in those visions? The clear answer is in Rev.20:1-3 obviously.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Who does the deceiving during the 1,000 years? The second beast (Rev.13:11-18), the pseudo-prophet serving the first beast (Rev.13:1-10). NOT SATAN IN HIS PERSON. The first beast, the whole antichristian power in the world; the second beast, the whole antichristian propaganda in the world. What about the whore, the whole antichristian seduction in the world? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Simply Satan in his person is confined to these former agencies.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Old Jack's opinion[/SIZE]

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Jack; "Peace" to you.

Thank you again for your response!

If we could remove Jn.5:28, 29 & 6:39 only for starters, I also could believe in more than only "1" bodily resurrection which results in the "hypergrace" of today, or at least a major part of it, projecting the forever warnings regarding one's losing one's "faith" out of touch from us today.

Old Jack's opinion

Let me help you with that...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

John 6:39-40
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV

First of all, Yeshua` wasn't saying that they would all hear His voice at the same time! He didn't say that. What He said is that there would be TWO resurrections: One resurrection unto life and another resurrection unto damnation or condemnation, aka sentencing. Both of these resurrections will be GENERAL resurrections. Yeshua` Himself IS "the Resurrection and the Life." He will be personally raising people back to life throughout the Millennium, but only at the beginning and at the end of the Millennium will there be a general resurrection.

Secondly, you need to learn something about this "last day." It will be a "thousand-year day!" How is this possible? The solution is quite simple: Yeshua` is the "SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS!" (Malachi 4:2)

Malachi 4:1-2
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
KJV

This is not just flowery speech or figurative talk! It is REALITY! Listen again:

Isaiah 24:23
23 Then the moon shall be confounded (SHALL BLUSH; SHALL BE CONFUSED), and the sun ashamed (SHALL PALE; SHALL BE OUTDONE), when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
KJV

Knowing that "glory" is the translation word from the Hebrew word "kaavowd" and "glory" is the Greek word "doxa," which means to "glow brightly and apparently," listen again:

Matthew 16:27-17:2
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
KJV

Matthew 19:28-29
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
KJV

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Matthew 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
KJV

Mark 8:38-9:3
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

Luke 2:8-9
8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
KJV

Luke 9:26-31
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
KJV

Luke 9:32-35
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
KJV

Luke 21:24-28
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

Acts 22:1-11
1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
KJV

Romans 5:1-2
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
KJV

1 Corinthians 15:39-44
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
KJV

2 Corinthians 3:7-18
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
KJV

2 Thessalonians 1:7-12
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV

Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
KJV

Hebrews 1:1-4
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
KJV

Revelation 15:8
8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
KJV

Revelation 18:1
18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
KJV

Revelation 21:9-13
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
KJV

Revelation 21:22-25
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
KJV

Time and time again, we are given the impression that this "glory" is a LITERAL shining of light! So, when the Scriptures ask, "Who is this King of glory?" ...

Psalm 24:7-10
7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.
KJV

... It is GOD Himself, YHWH, and His Representative - His Son - Yeshua` the Messiah. It's not talking about Him being the King of a PLACE called "Glory," as some have suggested; it's talking about Him being a SHINING King!

So, as Yeshua` reigns on His Father's behalf for a thousand years, all the while He will be shining brighter than the sun! That will make His country have a 1000-year day with no night! NO WONDER the sun is outdone and the moon is confused in its phases! Which "sun" will the moon reflect?!

Remember: The following three passages must be harmonized:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

Revelation 19:11-21:4
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LordS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

Try it!

 

[brakelite]

Hello Jack, always a pleasure to chat with you. I appreciate your perspective on the millenium and the binding of the devil. You are most certainly not alone with this view. May I however offer an explanation why I disagree?
First, let us look at the actual passage in question.

Revel.20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The original word used in the Greek for 'bottomless pit' is 'abussos', or as we translate it literally in English, abyss. The same word is used in the Greek OT in

Genesis 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Genesis account of creation we see that prior to God's creative work, the earth was "without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep".This is very interesting, in that what we have is the same word describing the earth in its totally dark, disorganized and desolate form before creation, "deep", "bottomless pit" and "abyss". Now as far as we undersatnd, the earth before creation was a lifelessdark sea. How it got here before creation is another story, but what is interesting is that Jeremiah speaks of a time when the earth may be similarly described as being dark, empty, and lifeless. We see this in .....

Jer. 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

...and we also see that Isaiah speaks of the binding of the devil here....

Isaiah 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Besides what we see here, that the earth that Satan is bound in is a lifeless empty void, and not the abode of todays inhabitants or of any future second-chancers, there is also the matter of the resurrections. One resurrection introduces the earth to the millenium, another at the close of the millenium. Jesus spoke also of two resurrections...

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Now we know that Jesus here is not in any way referring to His own resurrection, not to the few who were raised at that time and were taken to glory with Him as first fruits. No, no. Jesus is here referring specifically to the two general resurrection at the end of time...the first for the living righteous and those who had died in Christ that we see Paul and others speaking of as the 'blessed hope', and which we know takes place at the time of the second coming, and the second resurrection which brings to life all that had died throughout all ages without that hope, without salvation. Theyy are raised to be judged before being cast into the fire and be destroyed.
The timing of these resurrections will inform us of the timing of the 1000 years.
So when is the first resurrection?

1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The first resurrection is at the time of Jesus' second coming. So when is the second resurrection?

Rev. 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Do not be fooled by the last part of verse 5...this refers to the resurrection of the righteous, which has already taken place at the second coming. The "rest of the dead" spoken of in the first part of verse 5 are the wicked. They are raised at the close of the 1000 years, And it is at this time that Satan is loosed from his chain, and is once again able to go forth among all nations, peoples and tongues to deceive. Why is this so? Why couldn't he do this before? Because the righteous were in heaven with Christ, and the wicked weren't raised yet, but were dead for the entire duration of the 1000 years. Satan was restricted in al that he would normally do by a chain of circumstances ...on an earth that is empty, and void of all life, dark, and desolate.

It is at this time when the new Jerusalem descends from heaven and rests upon the flaatened plain in Israel, and inside is the Father, Jesus, all the angels, and all the redeemed whose names were written in the Lamb's book of life. Outside, the city is surrounded by Satan's newly formed army of the wicked from all ages. Great generals and warriors of days past are once again deceived into believing that there only hope of any future life is to take over the city and take the throne. A forlorn hope indeed but desperate times call for desperate measures. Naturally they fail. The fire of God falls from heaven anddestroys them all. Satan...his demons...and the wicked all destroyed in the fire that also cleanses the earth of all the decay and corruption that the previous 7000 years of sin and wickedness had deposited. And we get to witness the new creation of a new heavens and a new earth where righteousness reigns forever, and all sin and sinners no longer exist, nor will they ever come to mind.

God bless.

Thank you for your response and going the mile!

I thought you did a very good job and wrapped up my day scrutinizing your work - good job! And thank you again for caring that much!

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]From a different angle, ie, not that it's valid. This binding (Rev.20:2, etc.) of Satan personally as here symbolized is mentioned with reference to "the nations." This reference to "deceiving the nations" must be understood in connection wtih the symbolism of the two beasts (Rev.13) and of the whore. Where is the dragon (Satan personally) in those visions? The clear answer is in Rev.20:1-3 obviously.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Who does the deceiving during the 1,000 years? The second beast (Rev.13:11-18), the pseudo-prophet serving the first beast (Rev.13:1-10). NOT SATAN IN HIS PERSON. The first beast, the whole antichristian power in the world; the second beast, the whole antichristian propaganda in the world. What about the whore, the whole antichristian seduction in the world? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Simply Satan in his person is confined to these former agencies.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Old Jack's opinion[/SIZE]

Kia Ora Jack. It is true that Satan is working through these agencies. You can see how similar the dragon is to the beasts he has created. Yet Jack, both the beasts of Revelation 13 arose after the cross. They are Satan's creations. If he was bound in a pit, how was he able to exert enough influence to guide and lead the development of these apostate enterprises? That his guiding hand in their development is beyond any doubt. Look again at the way the counterfeits have been developed. I posted the folowing previously, but I believe it could always do with a second study....
Dragon/Satan.
His place in heaven (Rev 12:3, 7, 8.)
He has a throne. (Rev 13:2; 2:13)
Gives throne, power, and authority to sea-beast. (13:2,4.)
He is worshipped. (13:4a)
Destroyed forever. (20:9,10)

Now compare:

God the Father
Dwelling in heaven (Rev 4, 5)
He has a throne. (4:5; 7:9-15; 19:4)
Gives throne, power and authority to Jesus. (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27; 3:21; chapters 4,5.)
Is worshipped. (Rev 4:10; 15:4)
Lives and reign forever. (4:9; 5:13; 11:15)

The Land-beast or false prophet.
Called the false prophet because he decieves people with regards to religious matters. (16:13; 19:20; 20:10)
Lamb-like. (13:11)
Exercises all authority of sea-beast. (13:12a)
Directs worship to sea-beast. (13:12b,15)
Performs signs. (13:13; 19:20)
Brings fire down from heaven (13:13)
Gives breath/life to beasts image (13:15)
Applies mark of beast. (13:16)

Now compare:

The Holy Spirit
Called the Spirit of truth guiding people. (Jn 16:13 Rev 22:17)
Christ-like. (Jn 1426; 16:14)
Exercises authority of Christ (Jn 16:13, 14)
Directs worship to Christ (Acts 5:29-32)
Fire from heaven at Pentecost (Acts 2)
Instills life to us, the image of Christ. (Romans8:11,29)
Applies seal of God. (2 Cor 1:22 Eph 1:13 4:30 Rev 7:3, 4.)

The sea-beast or antichrist.
Comes from water to begin activity. (13:1)
Resembles dragon. (12:13 13:1)
Ten diadems. (13:1)
Ten horns (13:1)
Receives power throne and authority from dragon/Satan. (13:2,4)
42 months of activity in first phase. (13:5)
Was slain (13:3)
Resurrected (13:3)
Receives worship after healing (13:3,4,8)

Now compare:

Jesus Christ
Comes from water to begin ministry (Luke 3:21-23)
Resembles Father (Jn 14:19)
Many diadems (Rev 19:12)
Lamb has 7 horns (5:6)
Receives power throne and authority from His Father (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27 Chapters 4,5)
42 months of ministry in initial phase. (Gospel of John)
Was slain (Rev 5:6)
Was resurrected (Rev1:18)
Received worship after resurrection (Math 28:17)

Such accurate renditions of the original trinity could not have been conducted without personal attention to detail.

 

[shturt678]

Kia Ora Jack. It is true that Satan is working through these agencies. You can see how similar the dragon is to the beasts he has created. Yet Jack, both the beasts of Revelation 13 arose after the cross. They are Satan's creations. If he was bound in a pit, how was he able to exert enough influence to guide and lead the development of these apostate enterprises? That his guiding hand in their development is beyond any doubt. Look again at the way the counterfeits have been developed. I posted the folowing previously, but I believe it could always do with a second study.

...

Thank you for your response, and caring!

If you would have stated "They are Satan's agencies," in the former, this would have been perfect from my view; however as it sits the best interpretation I've seen in a long time.



Dragon/Satan.

His place in heaven (Rev 12:3, 7, 8.)
He has a throne. (Rev 13:2; 2:13)
Gives throne, power, and authority to sea-beast. (13:2,4.)
He is worshipped. (13:4a)
Destroyed forever. (20:9,10)

Now compare:

God the Father
Dwelling in heaven (Rev 4, 5)
He has a throne. (4:5; 7:9-15; 19:4)
Gives throne, power and authority to Jesus. (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27; 3:21; chapters 4,5.)
Is worshipped. (Rev 4:10; 15:4)
Lives and reign forever. (4:9; 5:13; 11:15)

The Land-beast or false prophet.
Called the false prophet because he decieves people with regards to religious matters. (16:13; 19:20; 20:10)
Lamb-like. (13:11)
Exercises all authority of sea-beast. (13:12a)
Directs worship to sea-beast. (13:12b,15)
Performs signs. (13:13; 19:20)
Brings fire down from heaven (13:13)
Gives breath/life to beasts image (13:15)
Applies mark of beast. (13:16)

Now compare:

The Holy Spirit
Called the Spirit of truth guiding people. (Jn 16:13 Rev 22:17)
Christ-like. (Jn 1426; 16:14)
Exercises authority of Christ (Jn 16:13, 14)
Directs worship to Christ (Acts 5:29-32)
Fire from heaven at Pentecost (Acts 2)
Instills life to us, the image of Christ. (Romans8:11,29)
Applies seal of God. (2 Cor 1:22 Eph 1:13 4:30 Rev 7:3, 4.)

The sea-beast or antichrist.
Comes from water to begin activity. (13:1)
Resembles dragon. (12:13 13:1)
Ten diadems. (13:1)
Ten horns (13:1)
Receives power throne and authority from dragon/Satan. (13:2,4)
42 months of activity in first phase. (13:5)
Was slain (13:3)
Resurrected (13:3)
Receives worship after healing (13:3,4,8)

Now compare:

Jesus Christ
Comes from water to begin ministry (Luke 3:21-23)
Resembles Father (Jn 14:19)
Many diadems (Rev 19:12)
Lamb has 7 horns (5:6)
Receives power throne and authority from His Father (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27 Chapters 4,5)
42 months of ministry in initial phase. (Gospel of John)
Was slain (Rev 5:6)
Was resurrected (Rev1:18)
Received worship after resurrection (Math 28:17)

Such accurate renditions of the original trinity could not have been conducted without personal attention to detail.


Wish we had Chrsitians like you that care in Hawaii, not speaking of the 'outwardly' religious ones

Old Jack, thank you again.

Shalom, Jack; "Peace" to you.


Let me help you with that...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

John 6:39-40
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV

First of all, Yeshua` wasn't saying that they would all hear His voice at the same time! He didn't say that. What He said is that there would be TWO resurrections: One resurrection unto life and another resurrection unto damnation or condemnation, aka sentencing. Both of these resurrections will be GENERAL resurrections. Yeshua` Himself IS "the Resurrection and the Life." He will be personally raising people back to life throughout the Millennium, but only at the beginning and at the end of the Millennium will there be a general resurrection.

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Thank you for your response and caring for sure![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Where we agree to agree, Yeshoshua'a or yeshu'a does correspond to the Godman "Jesus." [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Where we have to agree to disagree is in Jn.5:28, "all....shall hear his voice" Note the important and decisive pantes, "all," and the attributive phrse, beyond question made such by the article, "all in their tombs," ie, all the bodily dead. With intentional similarity to v.25 Jesus says that these too "shall hear his voice," ("quickening" with regards to let's say loosely speaking a "spiritual resurrection) that of God's Son and man's son. Now the voice of grace sound forth in Jesus's Word; spiritually dead hear it and are made spiritually alive. Then the voice of omnipotence will sound in the last trump {IIThess.2:2, "day of the Lord" - meaning a timeless day of course - whole N.T. Era where the Parousia happens at the end of "the day of the Lord."} meaning the "last day," ie, the "Parousia," and all the bodily dead shall hear it, ie, alllll, for that voice comes with resistless power, "and shall come out" of their graves, raised, all of them, from bodily death, their bodies once more being joined to their souls. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]This statement of the Godman Jesus[/SIZE]

Secondly, you need to learn something about this "last day." It will be a "thousand-year day!" How is this possible? The solution is quite simple: Yeshua` is the "SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS!" (Malachi 4:2)

Malachi 4:1-2
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
KJV

This is not just flowery speech or figurative talk! It is REALITY! Listen again:

Isaiah 24:23
23 Then the moon shall be confounded (SHALL BLUSH; SHALL BE CONFUSED), and the sun ashamed (SHALL PALE; SHALL BE OUTDONE), when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
KJV

Knowing that "glory" is the translation word from the Hebrew word "kaavowd" and "glory" is the Greek word "doxa," which means to "glow brightly and apparently," listen again:

Matthew 16:27-17:2
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
KJV

Matthew 19:28-29
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
KJV

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Matthew 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
KJV

Mark 8:38-9:3
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

Luke 2:8-9
8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
KJV

Luke 9:26-31
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
KJV

Luke 9:32-35
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
KJV

Luke 21:24-28
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

Acts 22:1-11
1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
KJV

Romans 5:1-2
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
KJV

1 Corinthians 15:39-44
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
KJV

2 Corinthians 3:7-18
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
KJV

2 Thessalonians 1:7-12
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV

Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
KJV

Hebrews 1:1-4
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
KJV

Revelation 15:8
8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
KJV

Revelation 18:1
18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
KJV

Revelation 21:9-13
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
KJV

Revelation 21:22-25
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
KJV

Time and time again, we are given the impression that this "glory" is a LITERAL shining of light! So, when the Scriptures ask, "Who is this King of glory?" ...

Psalm 24:7-10
7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.
KJV

... It is GOD Himself, YHWH, and His Representative - His Son - Yeshua` the Messiah. It's not talking about Him being the King of a PLACE called "Glory," as some have suggested; it's talking about Him being a SHINING King!

So, as Yeshua` reigns on His Father's behalf for a thousand years, all the while He will be shining brighter than the sun! That will make His country have a 1000-year day with no night! NO WONDER the sun is outdone and the moon is confused in its phases! Which "sun" will the moon reflect?!

Remember: The following three passages must be harmonized:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

Revelation 19:11-21:4
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LordS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

Try it!

 

[Retrobyter]

...

Thank you for your response and caring for sure!

Where we agree to agree, Yeshoshua'a or yeshu'a does correspond to the Godman "Jesus."

Where we have to agree to disagree is in Jn.5:28, "all....shall hear his voice" Note the important and decisive pantes, "all," and the attributive phrse, beyond question made such by the article, "all in their tombs," ie, all the bodily dead. With intentional similarity to v.25 Jesus says that these too "shall hear his voice," ("quickening" with regards to let's say loosely speaking a "spiritual resurrection) that of God's Son and man's son. Now the voice of grace sound forth in Jesus's Word; spiritually dead hear it and are made spiritually alive. Then the voice of omnipotence will sound in the last trump {IIThess.2:2, "day of the Lord" - meaning a timeless day of course - whole N.T. Era where the Parousia happens at the end of "the day of the Lord."} meaning the "last day," ie, the "Parousia," and all the bodily dead shall hear it, ie, alllll, for that voice comes with resistless power, "and shall come out" of their graves, raised, all of them, from bodily death, their bodies once more being joined to their souls.

This statement of the Godman Jesus

First of all, His name is NOT "Yeshoshua'a" or "Yehoshua`" or "Y'howshua`." That name means "YHWH rescues." His name is "Yeeshuwa`" or "Yeshua`." That name means "Rescuer." That's a BIG difference.

"All," yes, but NOT "all at one time" or "all at once!" You're making invalid assumptions! You call Him the "Godman"; but, He called Himself the "Son of man." At best, He has been called the "Son of God." Stick to the Scriptures.

 

[Floyd]

First of all, His name is NOT "Yeshoshua'a" or "Yehoshua`" or "Y'howshua`." That name means "YHWH rescues." His name is "Yeeshuwa`" or "Yeshua`." That name means "Rescuer." That's a BIG difference.

"All," yes, but NOT "all at one time" or "all at once!" You're making invalid assumptions! You call Him the "Godman"; but, He called Himself the "Son of man." At best, He has been called the "Son of God." Stick to the Scriptures.

Yes!
Floyd.

 

[shturt678]

First of all, His name is NOT "Yeshoshua'a" or "Yehoshua`" or "Y'howshua`." That name means "YHWH rescues." His name is "Yeeshuwa`" or "Yeshua`." That name means "Rescuer." That's a BIG difference.

Thank you for your response, and caring!

Will let the Hebrew 100 1st semester stuff regarding Yeshu'u "Yahweh is help or salvation" issue go for now..

QUOTE]"All," yes, but NOT "all at one time" or "all at once!" You're making invalid assumptions! You call Him the "Godman"; but, He called Himself the "Son of man." At best, He has been called the "Son of God." Stick to the Scriptures.

Thank you again for your Textual feedback, "Stick to the Scriptures." The big difference is I "stick to the context" resulting in the Godman Jesus (Jesus united with God at conception). Note not in red, and no refute intended, ie, only a word of encouragement.

btw the "beasts" in Rev.13 are and is not the "Antichrist." The "Antichrist" is a sequence of men (IIThess.2:3) where his authority - deceptive propaganda - dwells within where God the Holy Spirit is suppose to be dwelling thus all one has to do is look within.

Old Jack looking within this morning

[/QUOTE]

 

[Floyd]

Jack; your answers do not make sense to Scripture!
Floyd.

 

[shturt678]

Jack; your answers do not make sense to Scripture!
Floyd.

Thank you for your response again, and feedback!

Let's see where the discrepancies are beginning with Rev.13, "the wild beasts are not = to the Antichrist."

The "beasts" are Satan's angencies. To me this is pretty lucid, to the point, and coherent?

Old Jack

 

[Floyd]

Antichrist Revelation chapter 13:8



V.8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall (a)worship him every one whose name is not written in the (b)book of the life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.



(a) Here is reached probably the highest point on earth (as opposed to heaven) for the beast/Satan, who now has many of the earth's population openly worshipping him directly, and via. his false messiah and false prophet, some believing that he is the true God. It is quite possible that the charade of Satan is so convincing that the established religions will accept him as Messiah (in the case of the Jews,) the risen Christ (in the case of Christendom,) and the hidden Imam (in the case of Islam.) This especially so as the beast will "hate the whore," (Rev. 17:16) and appear to destroy her, which is clearly false righteousness for the effect of drawing their large groups together. The question arises, who is this entity described as "the beast?" Chapter 2 of Daniel describes the figure in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. When the legs are reached they are described as iron (V.33,) and from history are clearly military and religious Rome. The ending of the military phase of Rome started in the 4th century A.D. under Constantine. He and his very influential mother Helena, began the conversion of the empire into a military and religious body, for many reasons, including the main one, effective control of the empire and people. Constantine set up his own capital at Byzantium/Stambul (Istambul) which he re-named Constantinople. This alienated Rome, which by the 11th century A.D., split completely into the East and West of the original "Holy Roman Empire." Since then the two have established separate orthodoxies, i.e. Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Church, (two legs.) The feet of the dream (Dan. 2:41) and the toes (V.42) are the subject of our present study. Verse 1 describes it as having 7 heads and 10 horns (the horns are assumed to be the toes of the "image" Dan. 2:41.) Other references to it are in Dan. 7:7 "ten horns," and 7:20 "ten horns." In 7:20 and 7:24 another horn rises and subdues 3 of them, and becomes very powerful. It is that horn in its power base that "makes war with the saints," 7:21 and 7:25. In Rev. 13, the beast has 7 heads. In Dan. 7:20 the ten horns are on one head, implying that the 7 nations have become one power (Confederation,) under the most powerful horn 7:21. The identity of the little horn is the next concern. In Dan. 8:23 we are shown that he arrives out of the divided kingdom of Alexander the Great, (8:21-22,) which was divided between his four Generals at the death of Alexander. We also have many Scripture references to him. I.e; in Dan. 8:23 the correct Hebrew shows that "the transgressions," (against Israel) are to reach a peak, before "he," "shall stand up." This clearly points to the Tribulation imposed on the Jews by him (Satan) in the background, and almost certainly his full exposure ("standing up") will correspond with the breaking of "the covenant," (Dan. 9:27.) His highest representative on earth is commonly called "Antichrist." Through the Ages he has had various roles on earth i.e. (Isa. 14:4,) (Isa. 14:12,) (Isa. 14:25,) (Dan. 8:23,) (7:8) (Dan. 9:26,) (Dan. 11:36,) (Mic. 5:5,) (2 Thess. 2:3,) (2 Thess. 2:8,) (Rev. 13:1,) and (Rev. 13:18.) Some of the above apply to his future role as Antichrist.



IN SUMMARY, the "little horn," Antichrist emerges from the 4th beast (Confederacy) as its leader. Initially magnanimous to Israel, there is a 3½ year period of peace for them. After the first 3½ years, he breaks the agreement with Israel and they enter persecution (Jer. 30:7,) known in prophecy as "Jacob's Trouble," for 3½ years. However, this is the stage of the dramatic re-entry of the Christ of Jehovah onto the world stage for the first time in Power (Dan. 2:34-35, 44 and 45,) (Isa.) (Zech.) (Ezk.) etc. (As opposed to His first Advent as the Son of Man, and the Sacrificial Lamb.) Simultaneously much is happening to the nations of the world, which is not of Satan, but the "wrath of God," (Rev. 16:1.)



There are some who claim that there is no such entity as "Antichrist," because the word is not used explicitly.

This is not so, and is intended to deceive and unsettle those people that want the Truth regarding the future, from the Word of God. 1John 2:18 refers to the Antichrist in both singular and plural, the singular to the person, as embodied in the above text, and the plural in the general attitude and conviction in people against the person and Salvation work of Christ. The references in 2Thess. 2:3-9, is specific to the person, and descriptive of his actions in the last 3½ years of time, prior to Christ's 2nd Advent!

Any who try to argue against these truths, are identifying themselves as "antichrist" in the plural!

 

[shturt678]

Antichrist Revelation chapter 13:8



V.8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall (a)worship him every one whose name is not written in the (b)book of the life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.



(a) Here is reached probably the highest point on earth (as opposed to heaven) for the beast/Satan, who now has many of the earth's population openly worshipping him directly, and via. his false messiah and false prophet, some believing that he is the true God. It is quite possible that the charade of Satan is so convincing that the established religions will accept him as Messiah (in the case of the Jews,) the risen Christ (in the case of Christendom,) and the hidden Imam (in the case of Islam.) This especially so as the beast will "hate the whore," (Rev. 17:16) and appear to destroy her, which is clearly false righteousness for the effect of drawing their large groups together. The question arises, who is this entity described as "the beast?" Chapter 2 of Daniel describes the figure in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. When the legs are reached they are described as iron (V.33,) and from history are clearly military and religious Rome. The ending of the military phase of Rome started in the 4th century A.D. under Constantine. He and his very influential mother Helena, began the conversion of the empire into a military and religious body, for many reasons, including the main one, effective control of the empire and people. Constantine set up his own capital at Byzantium/Stambul (Istambul) which he re-named Constantinople. This alienated Rome, which by the 11th century A.D., split completely into the East and West of the original "Holy Roman Empire." Since then the two have established separate orthodoxies, i.e. Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Church, (two legs.) The feet of the dream (Dan. 2:41) and the toes (V.42) are the subject of our present study. Verse 1 describes it as having 7 heads and 10 horns (the horns are assumed to be the toes of the "image" Dan. 2:41.) Other references to it are in Dan. 7:7 "ten horns," and 7:20 "ten horns." In 7:20 and 7:24 another horn rises and subdues 3 of them, and becomes very powerful. It is that horn in its power base that "makes war with the saints," 7:21 and 7:25. In Rev. 13, the beast has 7 heads. In Dan. 7:20 the ten horns are on one head, implying that the 7 nations have become one power (Confederation,) under the most powerful horn 7:21. The identity of the little horn is the next concern. In Dan. 8:23 we are shown that he arrives out of the divided kingdom of Alexander the Great, (8:21-22,) which was divided between his four Generals at the death of Alexander. We also have many Scripture references to him. I.e; in Dan. 8:23 the correct Hebrew shows that "the transgressions," (against Israel) are to reach a peak, before "he," "shall stand up." This clearly points to the Tribulation imposed on the Jews by him (Satan) in the background, and almost certainly his full exposure ("standing up") will correspond with the breaking of "the covenant," (Dan. 9:27.) His highest representative on earth is commonly called "Antichrist." Through the Ages he has had various roles on earth i.e. (Isa. 14:4,) (Isa. 14:12,) (Isa. 14:25,) (Dan. 8:23,) (7:8) (Dan. 9:26,) (Dan. 11:36,) (Mic. 5:5,) (2 Thess. 2:3,) (2 Thess. 2:8,) (Rev. 13:1,) and (Rev. 13:18.) Some of the above apply to his future role as Antichrist.



IN SUMMARY, the "little horn," Antichrist emerges from the 4th beast (Confederacy) as its leader. Initially magnanimous to Israel, there is a 3½ year period of peace for them. After the first 3½ years, he breaks the agreement with Israel and they enter persecution (Jer. 30:7,) known in prophecy as "Jacob's Trouble," for 3½ years. However, this is the stage of the dramatic re-entry of the Christ of Jehovah onto the world stage for the first time in Power (Dan. 2:34-35, 44 and 45,) (Isa.) (Zech.) (Ezk.) etc. (As opposed to His first Advent as the Son of Man, and the Sacrificial Lamb.) Simultaneously much is happening to the nations of the world, which is not of Satan, but the "wrath of God," (Rev. 16:1.)



There are some who claim that there is no such entity as "Antichrist," because the word is not used explicitly.

This is not so, and is intended to deceive and unsettle those people that want the Truth regarding the future, from the Word of God. 1John 2:18 refers to the Antichrist in both singular and plural, the singular to the person, as embodied in the above text, and the plural in the general attitude and conviction in people against the person and Salvation work of Christ. The references in 2Thess. 2:3-9, is specific to the person, and descriptive of his actions in the last 3½ years of time, prior to Christ's 2nd Advent!

Any who try to argue against these truths, are identifying themselves as "antichrist" in the plural!

Thank you for your response!

A very lucid response, ie, thank you! First and foremost we need to understand nothing in the O.T., including Daniel, governs any interpretation in Revelation in light of agreeing to disagree to too much with your view of Daniel - deepens the interpretation in Revelation, yes!

Rev.13:8: Because of the beast's authority over the world of men (Rev.13:1-10 - the antichristian power in the whole world), "they shall do obeisance to him, all they that dwell upon the earth," who care to dwell only there. In most willing submission they shall bow to the antichristian world power OF THE BEAST, the agency of the DRAGON. The future tense covers the time until the end.

Old Jack

 

[Floyd]

Thank you for your response!

A very lucid response, ie, thank you! First and foremost we need to understand nothing in the O.T., including Daniel, governs any interpretation in Revelation in light of agreeing to disagree to too much with your view of Daniel - deepens the interpretation in Revelation, yes!

Rev.13:8: Because of the beast's authority over the world of men (Rev.13:1-10 - the antichristian power in the whole world), "they shall do obeisance to him, all they that dwell upon the earth," who care to dwell only there. In most willing submission they shall bow to the antichristian world power OF THE BEAST, the agency of the DRAGON. The future tense covers the time until the end.

Old Jack



From Floyd.
No; that is not so! All the OT prophetic books are relevant to the future and Revelation.

 

[shturt678]

From Floyd.

No; that is not so! All the OT prophetic books are relevant to the future and Revelation.

Thank you for your response!

Relevant, but doesn't govern "1" interpretaton, right? If an O.T. passage governs one N.T. passage, please let me know as there may be?

Old Jack

 

[Floyd]

Thank you for your response!

Relevant, but doesn't govern "1" interpretaton, right? If an O.T. passage governs one N.T. passage, please let me know as there may be?

Old Jack

OK Jack; starting at Gen.3:15; this prophecy is fulfilled in NT, at the Birth of our Lord.
As you should know, as you have said you teach; there are hundreds of these, starting with this one above.
Floyd.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Jack.

Thank you for your response!

Relevant, but doesn't govern "1" interpretaton, right? If an O.T. passage governs one N.T. passage, please let me know as there may be?

Old Jack

I'll be happy to let you know. EVERY verse in the NT that QUOTES an OT passage is DEPENDENT UPON that passage in the OT! To rightly understand the NT passage, one MUST FIRST have a good understanding of the OT passage! Otherwise, what was the point in quoting the OT passage? A good case in point is how Romans 10:13 should be understood. It is a quotation from the OT passage of Joel 2:32!

Romans 10:1-15
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved (rescued; delivered).
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ (the Messiah) is the end of the law (the Torah) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law (the Torah), That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ [Messiah] down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ [Messiah] again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved (rescued; delivered).
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation (rescue; deliverance).
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (rescued; delivered). (Joel 2:32)
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher (herald)?
15 And how shall they preach (herald), except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! (Isaiah 52:7)
KJV

Joel 2:23-3:2
2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered (rescued; saved): for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance (rescue; salvation), as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
KJV

Isaiah 52:7
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation (rescue; deliverance); that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
KJV

Thus, these verses are NOT talking about "personal salvation" (actually called "justification by God" in the Scriptures) but are rather talking about "Isra'el's NATIONAL salvation" or the rescuing that the Messiah will perform for His people Isra'el when He returns! And as far as God keeping His word to the Jews and the rest of national, genetic, ancestral Isra'el is concerned, you'd better HOPE that God keeps His word, or what's to prevent Him from reneging on His promise of eternal life to YOU?!

 

[shturt678]

OK Jack; starting at Gen.3:15; this prophecy is fulfilled in NT, at the Birth of our Lord.
As you should know, as you have said you teach; there are hundreds of these, starting with this one above.
Floyd.

Thank you for your response again, and caring!

Gen.3:15 The germ of promise in no way can even begin to govern the fulfillment of this promise at beginning with Jn.19:30, however Jn.19:30 does govern the interpretation in Gen.3:15.

Old Jack that only teaches very basic low paygrade Koine and Hebrew - bottom of the heap - never did teach "Bible."

btw not at the birth, but at His bloody sacrifical death.

 

[Floyd]

Thank you for your response again, and caring!

Gen.3:15 The germ of promise in no way can even begin to govern the fulfillment of this promise at beginning with Jn.19:30, however Jn.19:30 does govern the interpretation in Gen.3:15.

Old Jack that only teaches very basic low paygrade Koine and Hebrew - bottom of the heap - never did teach "Bible."

btw not at the birth, but at His bloody sacrifical death.

Sorry; you are 180 degrees out; which I have noticed is very common with your replies?
Floyd.

 

[shturt678]

Thank you for your caring again!

I was going to cut you some slack with Rom.10:13, "shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved." I have no doubt that you, along with most fallaciously untentionally think in terms of calling upon His "Title." Paul obviously is using Joel 2:32 which pointed to before the coming of the terrible day of the Lord, which would dawn after the outpouring of the Spirit of God upon all flesh.

Rom.10:12, "all those calling upon him:" Here there's more than just a pronoun: call upon "him"; here there's: "upon name of the Lord." in v.13. Paul retains the anarthrous Kuriou which is used in the LXX of Joel as a designation for Yahweh. So Paul identifies Christ and Yahweh because they are one in essence and being, Christ being the Son of God.

My point: call upon "the Name" of Yahweh always signifies the revelation, and not as in "Title."

Old Jack

Hey, we may agree to agree on something?