Wise vs. Foolish Virgins

[VictoryinJesus]

The ten virgins parable Lord Jesus gave in Matthew 25 is often not truly understood in its simplicity. In the attempt of many to 'try' and explain it, they actually create many more little parables within their explanation, leading brethren to have more questions about it. I'll not do that here. So for those who want it, this explanation will be very simple, and to the point, no guilding the Lilly one might say.

Matt 25:1-4 -- there were ten virgins, five wise and five foolish. They all had lamps with Oil in them and went forth to meet the bridegroom. The five foolish virgins took their lamps, but no spare Oil with them. The five wise virgins took their lamps, and... a spare vessel of the Oil.

Lord Jesus is pointing to His servants waiting on Him (the Bridegroom) Who is to return in our future. We are either of the five foolish, or five wise virgins. The Oil represents The Holy Spirit.

Here's the tough part some struggle with, "strong meat" in this:
What specifically is The Holy Spirit given us for? Per John 12 through 16, The Holy Spirit is given us as our Comforter and our Teacher. Jesus said He would teach us all things (John 14:26). So in the case of the five foolish virgins, they did not have the spare vessel of the Oil, pointing to what condition? They lacked... UNDERSTANDING. Thus they were not prepared at the end.

Matt 25:5-6 = all the ten virgins slept as the bridegroom tarried (delay). At midnight, a cry was made that the Bridegroom comes and to go out and meet Him. That points specifically to the last hour of this world (11th hour before midnight), and then midnight points to the day of Christ's future coming to gather His Church on the last day of this world. Thus the 11th hour is symbolic of the time of "great tribulation", the time just prior to Christ's future return at symbolic 'midnight'.

Do you recall Matthew 20 about the laborers in the field parable Jesus gave? Some of the laborers were hired at the 11th hour, and worked only one hour, yet were paid the same as those who had worked all day. And Jesus' final answer to those workers who complained was that "for many be called, but few chosen" (Matthew 20:16). That is about these same five 'wise' virgins who had the spare vessel of the Oil to go with the Oil in their lamps. This is how we connect Lord Jesus' parables when they point to each other, thus learning His Message, and not man's leaven which only confuses the real Message.

Matt 25:7-8 = then all ten virgin arose and trimmed their lamps. The five foolish virgins said to the five wise ones to give of their Oil, because their lamps had run out. Since the Oil represents The Holy Spirit, Who actually is the Giver of that Oil? GOD Himself. This symbolically represents these five foolish virgins spiritually slept like they all did, but were not prepared for the CLIMAX, the day of the Bridegroom coming at midnight. They lacked understanding, because the Oil is about The Holy Spirit teaching us.

Matt 25:9 = the five wise virgins answer, and tell the five foolish virgins no, but to go to the market and buy the Oil. What's the problem with that idea of buying... the Oil at the market? If you think this is simply about any oil for a lamp that burns, you will completely miss Lord Jesus' Message here. One cannot... buy this Oil (Holy Spirit).

Matt 25:10 = then while the five foolish virgins went to the market to buy the Oil, the Bridegroom came, and the five wise virgins who were ready, went in with Jesus to the marriage, and the door was shut.

Matt 25:11-12 = then the five foolish virgins returned, and said to open the door, and Jesus said to them, "I know you not". And then Jesus commanded us to 'Watch', because we don't know the day nor hour when He will come.

That is NOT where this Message by Lord Jesus ends though, because back in the previous Matthew 24 Chapter, Jesus gave 7 main Signs we are to WATCH for signaling events leading up to His future 2nd coming to gather His faithful Church. Those 7 Signs are the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials of His Book of Revelation.

This means then... the five WISE virgins are to have THAT spare vessel of The Oil that gives understanding... in those 7 Signs Jesus gave us to be WATCHING at the end of this world.

1 John 3:15-18 Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. [16] Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. [17] But whoso has this world's good, and sees his brother have need, and shuts up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwells the love of God in him? [18] My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Ephesians 5:14-19 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light. [15] See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, [16] Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. [17] Wherefore be you not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. [18] And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; [19] Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;


A Question: in the parable they all slept and awake those without asking those with to give them oil. But the above seems to be the same timing of “awake you that sleep” but instead “Christ will give you light”? Hebrews 2:11-13 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, [12] Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. [13] And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.


Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.


Tecarta Bible

 

[Davy]

Jehovah's witnesses existed prior to humans even being created Davy, Rev 1:5. We did not "start" our own denomination. Follow the history of God's people, and the identification of such in Scripture.

Now you're being FUNNY!

Charles Taze Russel from Pittsburg is who was behind start of the Jehovah's Witness movement which originated with the 1870's 'Bible Student Movement'. He even had said that if Bible students just study his Bible lessons, they wouldn't even need a Bible.

The Church of Jesus Christ likes to say they are the ONLY true Church too, just because of the name they use, and that's a show of lack of understanding also.

 

[Davy]

A Question: in the parable they all slept and awake those without asking those with to give them oil. But the above seems to be the same timing of “awake you that sleep” but instead “Christ will give you light”? Hebrews 2:11-13 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, [12] Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. [13] And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.


Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.


Tecarta Bible

Sounds like you are not... sticking to what Jesus said in His parable of the ten virgins. No need for me to go into it with you if you can't stay with the parable subject there. And your question isn't really asking... me anything, but trying to tell... me, just what, only God knows.

 

[Davy]

The Oil is sanctifying Grace.
Those in the state of mortal Sin will not be Raptured.
Going to get more Oil is realizing what's about to happen, and then trying to get to Confession, to have your Sin absolved.
But to late...
Then you have to go through tribulations, or even worse Hell.

NO, the OIL in the parable is NOT a symbol for GRACE.

The Oil in the parable is a symbol for understanding given by The Holy Spirit.

You cannot BUY GRACE. It is a FREE GIFT from God to those who believe on Him and His Son Jesus Christ. All the ten virgins were under God's grace as believers on Christ (Romans 5:15).

 

[Davy]

‘Watch therefore:
for ye know not
what hour your Lord doth come.’
(Mat 24:42)

The Parable of the Ten Virgins
‘Then shall the kingdom of heaven
.. be likened unto ten virgins,
.... which took their lamps,
...... and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
.. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
.... But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
While the bridegroom tarried,
they all slumbered and slept.
And at midnight there was a cry made,
.. “Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him.”
.... Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise,
.. “Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.”
.... But the wise answered, saying,
...... “Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you:
........ but go ye rather to them that sell,
.......... and buy for yourselves.”
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came;
.. and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:
.... and the door was shut.
Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, “Lord, Lord, open to us.”
.. But he answered and said, “Verily I say unto you, I know you not.”
Watch therefore,
.. for ye know neither the day nor the hour
.... wherein the Son of man cometh.”’
(Mat 25:1-13)

The Parable of the Ten Virgins:- expands and further explains the need for watchfulness and readiness that has already been uttered in Matthew 24:42. Where similar words are used to those with which the parable of the virgins closes.

* The parable opens with the word, ‘Then’, meaning, ‘Then at that time,’
‘Then, (at that time), the kingdom of the heavens will become like unto ten virgins ... ... ’‘

* It is important to remember that the Lord is answering the question the disciples raised in Matt. 24:3, following His statement in verses 1-2:-

‘And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple:
and His disciples came to Him
for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.
And Jesus said unto them,
“See ye not all these things?
verily I say unto you,
There shall not be left here one stone upon another,
that shall not be thrown down ... .”’
(Mat 24:1-2)

‘And as He sat upon the mount of Olives,
the disciples came unto Him privately, saying,
“Tell us,”
(1) “when shall these things be?” and
(2) “what shall be the sign of Thy coming”, and
(3) “of the end of the world?”

The, ‘end of the world’ being that period which is the gathering point of all things just before the end of the age. Matthew 24 and 25 supply the answers to these questions.

*The ‘When?’ is answered in verses 5-14, by, ‘Then shall the end come,’ and in verse 21, ‘Then shall be great tribulation.’

*The ‘What? As to the sign of the Lord’s coming, is answered in verse 27 by the words, ‘As the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west,’ and in verses 27-31 fuller details of the effect in the heavens are given. These answer the question concerning the sign of His coming. In other words, the Lord’s coming will be visible to all, open and not in secret, it will be accompanied by signs in the heavens.

*The ‘What?’ As to the end of the age is answered in the parable of the fig tree and the type of Noah.
The Lord expands this section in the parable of The Ten Virgins, which commences, ‘Then will the Kingdom of the Heavens be likened unto ten virgins ... ‘

Then (at that time), the days when the fig tree had put forth it’s leaves, and the days of Noah are being re-enacted, then the kingdom of the heavens will be comparable to ten virgins who took their lamps, and went out to meet the bridegroom.

Notice the statement, ‘they took their lamp; and went out to meet the Bridegroom.’ They went out with the express object of meeting the Bridegroom. There is no suggestion that the five foolish virgins were not as earnest as the wise. There is no suggestion that they were hypocrites or unbelievers. The whole point is that they were unready, unprepared. This is a warning not to sinners, but to believers (saints).

‘These are they which were not defiled with women;
for they are virgins.
These are they which follow the Lamb
whithersoever He goeth.
These were redeemed from among men,
being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.’
(Revelation 14:4)

Revelation 14:4 shows that in the Scriptures the title ‘virgin’ may be applied regardless of gender, indicating chastity and purity. As immorality will have reached a fearful depth and will constitute once more a part of the religion of the end time, a very real separation is evidenced by this word.

This word (virgin) is in some measure equivalent to the Old Testament reference to Noah (Genesis 6:9), who was said to be, ‘perfect in His generation’, ie., in his pedigree. He and therefore his offspring, of all who lived prior to the judgement of the flood, were the only ones found to be so. All others had been tainted by the actions of the fallen angels of (Genesis 6:1-9).

That time (of Noah) was marked by impurity and immorality, and the end of the age is likened to those days, ‘as in the days of Noah’ (Matthew 24:38), referring to the fact that although having been warned by Noah, the people ignored him, and went about their lives as though no warning had been given (Hebrews 11:7, 1 Peter 3:20, 2 Peter 2:5).

The virgins of Revelation 14 have the Father’s name written in their foreheads in strong contrast to the idolatrous worshippers of the beast in their right hand, or forehead ( Revelation 13:16). The Kingdom of the heavens at that time will be found only among a separated people who are ‘virgins’. The point of the parable is not questioning their virginity, nor their intentions, but their failure, their failure TO WATCH.

Not everyone who is a subject of the Kingdom of the heavens will enter into the marriage supper of the Lamb. They that are ready will go in.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

YES! YES! YES!

Jesus' command for His servants to 'watch' immediately carries over into the Matthew 25 Chapter about the ten virgins.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And your question isn't really asking... me anything, but trying to tell... me, just what, only God knows

I was only asking you a question that I’ve also asked myself. For example concerning the parable I’ve asked what about where the word says God gives to those who ask for the Spirit? (Oil?)
Luke 11:9-13 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. [10] For every one that asked receives; and he that seekers finds; and to him that knocks it shall be opened. [11] If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? [12] Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? [13] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

is it wrong to ask why in the parable they ask for oil representative of the Spirit of God and they do not receive but instead told to go to the merchants to purchase Oil for themselves? (Unless I’ve misunderstood). What is the time limit on ask and you shall receive, knock and it shall be opened?

 

[James Macbeth]

NO, the OIL in the parable is NOT a symbol for GRACE.

The Oil in the parable is a symbol for understanding given by The Holy Spirit.

You cannot BUY GRACE. It is a FREE GIFT from God to those who believe on Him and His Son Jesus Christ. All the ten virgins were under God's grace as believers on Christ (Romans 5:15).

Saint Peter says otherwise:
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

And:
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord.
– 2 Peter 1:2

And Saint Paul:
And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. 2 Cor. 9:8

2 Cor. 8:6-7 But as you abound in everything — in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all diligence, and in your love for us — see that you abound in this grace also.

Heb. 4:16 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Saint James:
James 4:6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.

The Oil is Grace...

 

[charity]

I was only asking you a question that I’ve also asked myself. For example concerning the parable I’ve asked what about where the word says God gives to those who ask for the Spirit? (Oil?)
Luke 11:9-13 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. [10] For every one that asked receives; and he that seekers finds; and to him that knocks it shall be opened. [11] If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? [12] Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? [13] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

is it wrong to ask why in the parable they ask for oil representative of the Spirit of God and they do not receive but instead told to go to the merchants to purchase Oil for themselves? (Unless I’ve misunderstood). What is the time limit on ask and you shall receive, knock and it shall be opened?

Hello @VictoryinJesus, (re: reply#26)

I think this question of yours is a fair question, for I too have been thinking along similar lines today, concerning the oil in the lamps of the ten virgins being representative of the Holy Spirit. For if that is so, there is no question of the Holy Spirit being 'bought'. I think of Simon the conjurer in the book of Acts, who thought he could buy the gift of the Holy Spirit, and Peter's response:-

'And when Simon saw that the Holy Spirit was given
through laying on of the apostles' hands,
he offered them money, saying,
Give me this power also,
that on whomever I lay hands,
he may receive the Holy Spirit.
But Peter said to him, May your silver perish with you,
because you have thought that the gift of God
may be purchased with money.
You have neither part nor lot in this matter,
for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours,
and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart
may be forgiven you.'
(Act 8:18-22)

* So, no, in this case I do not think that either grace or the Holy Spirit are typified by the oil in the lamps of the virgins, as has been suggested.

* The number (10) indicating the perfection of Divine order: Completeness of order; marking the entire round of anything; is therefore, the ever present signification of the number (10). It implies that nothing is wanting; that the number and order are perfect; that the whole cycle is complete. So, the (10) virgins represent the whole of the nation of Israel (as distinct from the elect remnant which is the Bride); while the number (5) denotes those who by grace will be able to say, 'This is our God, we have waited for Him'. (eg., Mark 15:43; Luke 2:25)

'He will swallow up death in victory;
and the Lord Jehovah will wipe away tears from all faces.
And He shall take away from all the earth the rebuke of His people.
For Jehovah has spoken.
And one shall say in that day,"Lo, this is our God.
We have waited for Him, and He will save us.
This is Jehovah; we have waited for Him,
we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."'
(Isa 25:8-9)

Praise God!

The exhortation is to, 'wait,' and to, 'be ready'.
In Christ Jesus
Chris (reply #20)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

* So, no, in this case I do not think that either grace or the Holy Spirit are typified by the oil in the lamps of the virgins, as has been suggested.

really. I don’t know. Thank you for considering my question as a fair one.

a few things that stand out for me is first…maybe everyone is not that far off because when I consider the Spirit of God and the fruit of the Spirit …I think of holiness and truth (Light), peace, love, mercy, long-suffering, kindness, and Grace. Joy is another one. Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

Hebrews 1:8-9 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. [9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

i think of where in James it says if any are sick to anoint them with oil. But concerning the ten virgins …I struggle with how God’s perfection is that he causes the sun to rise on and for it to rain on the just and the unjust. And the verse where if your enemy is hungry, feed him. Which (Imo) makes God wise and us foolish.

I did understand what you meant. it was very insightful and well stated. You may be right. I just have a lot of conflicting thoughts in my head.

 

[Davy]

Saint Peter says otherwise:
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

You're not using common sense. We do not literally 'grow' in God's Grace. Peter was using an 'expression' for staying in Christ Jesus and continuing to learn. Or didn't you SEE that phrase "and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" there also?

And:
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord.
– 2 Peter 1:2

And Saint Paul:
And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. 2 Cor. 9:8

2 Cor. 8:6-7 But as you abound in everything — in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all diligence, and in your love for us — see that you abound in this grace also.

Heb. 4:16 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Saint James:
James 4:6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.

The Oil is Grace...

No, the Oil in their lamps is NOT Grace.

Rom 4:2-5
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
KJV

God's Grace is a FREE GIFT, not something earned of debt by works. It comes by our Faith. God does not save one believer MORE than another believer, which is actually what YOU are trying to say, if the Oil in their lamps be Grace.

Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
KJV

if one has no Faith, then they have NO Grace. And there is NO WORK they can do to get that Grace, because it is only BY Faith on Jesus Christ. And that means a GIFT that is NOT earned!

But when you interpret the Scriptures to mean Grace can be increased, that is actually talking about one's strength in Faith, and not that God's Grace, which is a free gift by Faith, is literally increased.

Rom 5:15
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
KJV

An even great problem comes with your kind of thinking about God's Grace also, called HERESY. Why? Because like Apostle Paul says in the above Romans 5:15 verse, God's Grace is a free gift, and the ONLY WORK it involves is the work BY Christ Jesus dying on His cross! So you cannot work to increase God's Grace, otherwise it is not a FREE GIFT. To say differently is to say you can work your 'own' grace independent of Jesus Christ, and thus independent of Faith.


Rom 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
KJV

Rom 11:5
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

Your bad interpretation of what Grace is also runs into another heresy per the above, i.e., the idea of God's election according to His Grace. If those could increase and grow that Grace, that would mean what? It would mean they earned God's election by their 'own' works, and not by God's Own choosing.

Rom 11:6
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
KJV

Apostle Paul above made sure we understood God's Free Gift of His Grace according to our Faith, and to know that is NOT of works. Paul made it simple, Grace has nothing to do with 'works'. The expression about growing in Grace is simply about growing in the Knowledge of Jesus Christ, not about increasing His Free Gift by works.

 

[Episkopos]

You're not using common sense. We do not literally 'grow' in God's Grace. Peter was using an 'expression' for staying in Christ Jesus and continuing to learn. Or didn't you SEE that phrase "and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" there also?



No, the Oil in their lamps is NOT Grace.

Rom 4:2-5
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
KJV

God's Grace is a FREE GIFT, not something earned of debt by works. It comes by our Faith. God does not save one believer MORE than another believer, which is actually what YOU are trying to say, if the Oil in their lamps be Grace.

Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
KJV

if one has no Faith, then they have NO Grace. And there is NO WORK they can do to get that Grace, because it is only BY Faith on Jesus Christ. And that means a GIFT that is NOT earned!

But when you interpret the Scriptures to mean Grace can be increased, that is actually talking about one's strength in Faith, and not that God's Grace, which is a free gift by Faith, is literally increased.

Rom 5:15
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
KJV

An even great problem comes with your kind of thinking about God's Grace also, called HERESY. Why? Because like Apostle Paul says in the above Romans 5:15 verse, God's Grace is a free gift, and the ONLY WORK it involves is the work BY Christ Jesus dying on His cross! So you cannot work to increase God's Grace, otherwise it is not a FREE GIFT. To say differently is to say you can work your 'own' grace independent of Jesus Christ, and thus independent of Faith.


Rom 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
KJV

Rom 11:5
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

Your bad interpretation of what Grace is also runs into another heresy per the above, i.e., the idea of God's election according to His Grace. If those could increase and grow that Grace, that would mean what? It would mean they earned God's election by their 'own' works, and not by God's Own choosing.

Rom 11:6
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
KJV

Apostle Paul above made sure we understood God's Free Gift of His Grace according to our Faith, and to know that is NOT of works. Paul made it simple, Grace has nothing to do with 'works'. The expression about growing in Grace is simply about growing in the Knowledge of Jesus Christ, not about increasing His Free Gift by works.

Do you claim to know more about grace than Peter?

"But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen." 2 Pet. 3:18

"Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord," 2 Pet. 1:2

Let few be teachers.

You have not understood grace at all. Or works for that matter.

The free gift of grace is a sample. But that sample will run out...like the oil in a lamp. Then what do we do? That is what God is interested in. You are seeing this according to what YOU are interested in...not God. So that makes everything you say to be in error.

God wants us to go to Him.

He gives us a "taste"...as a sample of His goodness...to see what we will do with it. And then what we will do subsequently. Will we sell all to purchase the field? Or will we become like the Pharisees who were always looking for a way to justify themselves?

Your stance lacks both humility and the fear of the Lord. You want to justify yourself for your beliefs and any gift you have received from God. We will all be judged not by what we have received...but what we have done with what we have received.

Jesus counsels you to BUY eye salve so that you may see. Until then you are blind to spiritual things and are heaping up error upon error.

The free sample is meant to attract us to Him so that we give everything...to have the full measure of grace... which costs us everything...all our hearts, and minds.

Taste and see that the Lord is good. And trust not in your own understanding.

 

[James Macbeth]

You're not using common sense. We do not literally 'grow' in God's Grace. Peter was using an 'expression' for staying in Christ Jesus and continuing to learn. Or didn't you SEE that phrase "and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" there also?



No, the Oil in their lamps is NOT Grace.

Rom 4:2-5
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
KJV

God's Grace is a FREE GIFT, not something earned of debt by works. It comes by our Faith. God does not save one believer MORE than another believer, which is actually what YOU are trying to say, if the Oil in their lamps be Grace.

Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
KJV

if one has no Faith, then they have NO Grace. And there is NO WORK they can do to get that Grace, because it is only BY Faith on Jesus Christ. And that means a GIFT that is NOT earned!

But when you interpret the Scriptures to mean Grace can be increased, that is actually talking about one's strength in Faith, and not that God's Grace, which is a free gift by Faith, is literally increased.

Rom 5:15
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
KJV

An even great problem comes with your kind of thinking about God's Grace also, called HERESY. Why? Because like Apostle Paul says in the above Romans 5:15 verse, God's Grace is a free gift, and the ONLY WORK it involves is the work BY Christ Jesus dying on His cross! So you cannot work to increase God's Grace, otherwise it is not a FREE GIFT. To say differently is to say you can work your 'own' grace independent of Jesus Christ, and thus independent of Faith.


Rom 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
KJV

Rom 11:5
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

Your bad interpretation of what Grace is also runs into another heresy per the above, i.e., the idea of God's election according to His Grace. If those could increase and grow that Grace, that would mean what? It would mean they earned God's election by their 'own' works, and not by God's Own choosing.

Rom 11:6
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
KJV

Apostle Paul above made sure we understood God's Free Gift of His Grace according to our Faith, and to know that is NOT of works. Paul made it simple, Grace has nothing to do with 'works'. The expression about growing in Grace is simply about growing in the Knowledge of Jesus Christ, not about increasing His Free Gift by works.

James 2:24
You see that by works a man is justified and not from faith alone.

So our Lord opened the gates to Heaven, that is faith. But by wanton Sin you can be rejected by Jesus himself at Judgement. So we do good deeds or works to fill our oil flask (grace).

And we see that our Lady had grace before Jesus opened the gates of Heaven.
Luke 1:28
And the Angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Now you're being FUNNY!

Charles Taze Russel from Pittsburg is who was behind start of the Jehovah's Witness movement which originated with the 1870's 'Bible Student Movement'. He even had said that if Bible students just study his Bible lessons, they wouldn't even need a Bible.

The Church of Jesus Christ likes to say they are the ONLY true Church too, just because of the name they use, and that's a show of lack of understanding also.

No sir, simply stating what the Bible teaches. Who is the greatest, best known witness of Jehovah that ever existed? Rev 1:5. He was the first, and he was one even before Jehovah had human witnesses.

Are you able to follow the path of God's people Davy? If you can, what happened after Jesus' death?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen." 2 Pet. 3:18

"Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord," 2 Pet. 1:2

grow and be multiplied. How can one supersede in Grace of those in the body? It seems “grow” and “be multiplied” doesn’t speak of our own stature growth or multiplied… but His body which grows and is multiplied.
Ephesians 2:20-22 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom you also are built together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
^grows there is an outward expression that humbled. whereas when one individual thinks they have conquered and obtained more growth of Grace and more multiplied by God than others within the body …produces a growth of a big head of superiority. As satan who swore he had ascended above Christ and His body in height.

1. 2 Corinthians 9:9-12 (As it is written, He has dispersed abroad; he has given to the poor: his righteousness remains for ever. [10] Now he that ministers seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness(who gives the increase and multiplies the seed sown that grows? So no flesh can boast?) [11] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causes through us thanksgiving to God. [12] For the administration of this service not only supplies the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

Colossians 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Abounding in Grace …is it man who grows and is multiplied or God who grows, increases and is multiplied? Because “neither is he that planted anything, neither he that waters …but God who gives the “growth” “increase” “multiplied”
1 Corinthians 3:6-7 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. [7] So then neither is he that plants any thing, neither he that waters; but God that gives the increase. (So no flesh can boast)

The free sample is meant to attract us to Him so that we give everything...to have the full measure of grace... which costs us everything...all our hearts, and minds.

“To have the full measure of Grace”
Ephesians 4:12-13 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
.to have the full measure of grace...The body is not one member but many members knit together that grows being knit together, multiplies being knit together, increases being knit together so that neither he who sows is anything neither he that waters is anything but God who gives the growth, increase that you may abound in thanksgiving.
2 Corinthians 1:11 You also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given (unto God)by many (multiplied, increased)on our behalf.


Tecarta Bible

 

[Episkopos]

No sir, simply stating what the Bible teaches. Who is the greatest, best known witness of Jehovah that ever existed? Rev 1:5. He was the first, and he was one even before Jehovah had human witnesses.

Are you able to follow the path of God's people Davy? If you can, what happened after Jesus' death?

How can you be in a group that makes themselves exclusive to others based on a premise?

If someone starts a group called "the faithful in Christ" and the "cleverly" asks others...are you part of the "faithful in Christ" ...meaning that if you do not belong to his group then you can't be faithful in Christ.

The JW's is simply one more human attempt at having a religious exclusivity...dividing the Body of Christ...and as such under God's judgment.

Do you believe one must be a JW to actually be a witness of Christ and walk in His resurrection power?

Jesus came to earth in the name of His Father...what is that name? It is YHVH...Yahveh

The name "Jehovah" is an error based on the Jews using the vowel markers (nikud) for "Adonai" under the tetragramaton...YHVH.
The Jews didn't believe it proper to try pronouncing the Name, now rendered as "Hashem", out of reverence.

The "Name" in the Bible is actually "HaDavar"...the "Word". The "Word" made flesh is God...YHVH. Jesus is YHVH...come in the Father's name.

God hides Davar...and it takes the seeking of kings to discover it.

 

[Episkopos]

grow and be multiplied. How can one supersede in Grace of those in the body? It seems “grow” and “be multiplied” doesn’t speak of our own stature growth or multiplied but His body with grows and is multiplied.
Ephesians 2:20-22 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom you also are built together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
^grows there is an outward expression that humbled. whereas when one individual thinks they have conquered and obtained more growth of Grace and more multiplied by God than others within the body …produces a growth of a big head of superiority. As satan who swore he had ascended above Christ and His body in height.

1. 2 Corinthians 9:9-12 (As it is written, He has dispersed abroad; he has given to the poor: his righteousness remains for ever. [10] Now he that ministers seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness(who gives the increase and multiplies the seed sown that grows? So no flesh can boast?) [11] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causes through us thanksgiving to God. [12] For the administration of this service not only supplies the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

Colossians 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Abounding in Grace …is it man who grows and is multiplied or God who grows, increases and is multiplied? Because “neither is he that planted anything, neither he that waters …but God who gives the “growth” “increase” “multiplied”
1 Corinthians 3:6-7 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. [7] So then neither is he that plants any thing, neither he that waters; but God that gives the increase. (So no flesh can boast)





“To have the full measure of Grace”
Ephesians 4:12-13 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
.to have the full measure of grace...The body is not one member but many members knit together that grows being knit together, multiplies being knit together, increases being knit together so that neither he who sows is anything neither he that waters is anything but God who gives the growth, increase that you may abound in thanksgiving.
2 Corinthians 1:11 You also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given (unto God)by many (multiplied, increased)on our behalf.


Tecarta Bible

Corporate growth in grace does not preclude individual growth in grace...in fact one precludes the other.

We need for some to seek the full measure of grace for the good of the whole Body. The full measure is putting on Christ...whose perfection we walk in as we are translated into the kingdom realm of the Spirit. Very few will do this...but a Body needs eyes to see where it is going. Likewise the church needs prophets who walk in God's presence to help direct the steps of the Body.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

but a Body needs eyes to see where it is going. Likewise the church needs prophets who walk in God's presence to help direct the steps of the Body.

Makes me consider
1 Corinthians 12:21-2 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of you: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. [22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. [26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. [27] Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular. [28] And God has set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. [29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Two thoughts. One is if Christ is the Head then since He is the Head ; does the Head give direction to the body? Are the eyes to see with and ears to hear with then Holding the Head… if the (whole)body is in subjection to the Head then does the whole body have eyes to see, ears to hear given by the Head which is Christ?

another thought is concerning pushing people to strive to be something they are not and can never be. For example if God set some to be prophets, some teachers, some helpers…why scold someone for where God has set them for not being able to be “teachers” or “prophets” …when maybe they are set by God to be simply be “helpers”. To clarify: there seems to be a pushing that all should strive to receive more Grace upon Grace that they might “grow” to become leaders “eyes” and “ears” as Head of the body. (Saying most do not want to grow in Grace to be eyes and ears?) Receiving more abundant than others within the body. But what if that is not where God set them within the body (to be eyes and ears) but instead as a hand or feet?

 

[Episkopos]

Makes me consider
1 Corinthians 12:21-2 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of you: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. [22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. [26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. [27] Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular. [28] And God has set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. [29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Two thoughts. One is if Christ is the Head then since He is the Head ; does the Head give direction to the body? Are the eyes to see with and ears to hear with then Holding the Head… if the (whole)body is in subjection to the Head then does the whole body have eyes to see, ears to hear given by the Head which is Christ?

another thought is concerning pushing people to strive to be something they are not and can never be. For example if God set some to be prophets, some teachers, some helpers…why scold someone for where God has set them for not being able to be “teachers” or “prophets” …when maybe they are set by God to be simply be “helpers”. To clarify: there seems to be a pushing that all should strive to receive more Grace upon Grace that they might “grow” to become leaders “eyes” and “ears” as Head of the body. (Saying most do not want to grow in Grace to be eyes and ears?) Receiving more abundant than others within the body. But what if that is not where God set them within the body (to be eyes and ears) but instead as a hand or feet?

We need all the parts of the Body to be connected and functioning together. Some of the gifts are catalyst gifts. Like apostles and prophets for believers...and evangelists for unbelievers. Without these gifts...nothing gets going. Then there are the gifts that are meant to deepen the connection to God and one another...teaching gifts, exhortation, and the prophetic function in the assemblies.

When a church resists the prophets sent to her by God...that's when we get the situation we find ourselves in today. When ALL voices are seen as being equal then the voice of God is surely rejected. When certain voices are acclaimed as being orthodox by the carnal majority...then we have the situation that Jesus was faced with in His day. Again, the voice of God is rejected.

 

[Davy]

James 2:24
You see that by works a man is justified and not from faith alone.

So our Lord opened the gates to Heaven, that is faith. But by wanton Sin you can be rejected by Jesus himself at Judgement. So we do good deeds or works to fill our oil flask (grace).

And we see that our Lady had grace before Jesus opened the gates of Heaven.
Luke 1:28
And the Angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Now you definitely ARE... saying that we saved by WORKS, going directly against what Apostle Paul said. James and Paul agree, so which one is correct? BOTH are, once one understands the context of both!

James is NOT saying we are saved by works. He is simply saying that our 'works' SHOW our Faith. So if someone claims... to believe on Jesus Christ, they should have 'works' to show it. He is NOT saying we are saved by works by that.

Where did you guys get your education? This is elementary stuff.

 

[amigo de christo]

The five wise KNEW CHRIST the five foolish were at most mouth only .
For what does the fool say , THERE IS NO GOD . notice it says they were FOOLISH .
Its obvious they were not TRUE followers of Christ at all .