Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Jun2u]

@Enoch111,

Furthermore…

If God looked at the corridor of life (if there is such a thing) He would “see” a people who are rotten sinners waiting in line to be slaughtered, but for His “forelove” (beforehand loved) as you also admitted, so God chose one here, and another there those who are in line to be slaughtered and saved them.

What great love God has for His people that He wish no one should perish, so He chose a person here and a person there to become saved!! But we should never forget what a tremendous price He paid by sending His Son to the cross to redeem our sins!

This is the Gospel of God: Jesus did not come to make bad people good, rather Jesus came to make dead people LIVE!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

And then you introduce the delicate word for sexual intimacy

I beg to differ. It was not I who introduced the word "knew" yes you are mistaken, as always. That term has been written in Scripture since in the book of Genesis. You can call it sexual intimacy, I call it love as God intended the word to be.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

God never intended to save everyone.

That is plain old HERESY. God desires the salvation of all mankind, and if all would repent and believe, all would be saved by grace through faith. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and those who deny this preach heresy.

You want "whosoever believeth" to read as "everyone believing". But that nonsense is refuted over and over again in the Bible. Here is just one verse to demolish that misinterpretation:

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

That corresponds to "whosover believeth" and no amount of twisting Scripture which change to "everyone who is already believing".

 

[Enoch111]

That term has been written in Scripture since in the book of Genesis.

Yes, and "knew" means sexual intimacy, not Divine foreknowledge. You cannot play fast and loose with Scripture.

 

[Enoch111]

But we should never forget what a tremendous price He paid by sending His Son to the cross to redeem our sins!

And that price was paid for the sins of the whole world. At the same time God KNEW BEFOREHAND -- from the foundation of the world -- who would believe and who would not. Only those who believe are elected or predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son (Rom 8:29,30). That is genuine Divine foreknowledge.

Calvinists should be fully aware that creating "another gospel" is an attack upon the true Gospel of God (the Gospel of Christ). Therefore every other gospel as well as those who promote it are ACCURSED.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed*. (Gal 1:8)

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
*STRONGS NT 331: ἀνάθεμα [anathema]

b. a man accursed, devoted to the direst woes (equivalent to ἐπικατάρατος): ἀνάθεμα ἔστω,Galatians 1:8; 1 Corinthians 16:22; ἀνάθεμα λέγειντινα to execrate one, 1 Corinthians 12:3 (R G, but L T TrWH have restored ἀνάθεμα Ἰησοῦς, namely, ἔστω);ἀνάθεμα εἶναι ἀπό τοῦ Χριστοῦ, Romans 9:3(pregnantly equivalent to doomed and so separated from Christ).

What was Paul's Gospel?

1. The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ (1 Cor 15:1-3).
2. That Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners (1 Tim 1:15)
3. That Christ tasted death for every man (all humanity) (Heb 2:9)
4. That Christ's death was a ransom for all (1 Tim 2:6)
5. That God will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth ( 1 Tim 2:3,4)
6. That God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30)
7. That one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved (Acts 16:31)
8. That whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (Rom 10:8-13)
9. That it is by the preaching of the Gospel that sinners are brought to faith in Christ (Rom 10:14-17)
10. That all will not obey the Gospel, therefore all will not be saved (Rom 10:16)

 

[Jun2u]

And that price was paid for the sins of the whole world.

You just don’t get! If that statement above is true then most certainly there will no one be put in hell yet hell will heavily be populated.

How many sins did Jesus pay to redeem anyone? All of his sins!! If all what sin then can he commit after he was saved that will threaten him with hell, NONE… NADA… Zilch!!

What you are doing is taking the glory away from God and giving it to man. It is evident in the Bible that God is the prime mover of man’s salvation because man has no power to choose God. Man is spiritually dead.

The only way anyone can become save is when the Father draw him and there is no other way!! Wake up and smell the coffee.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You are a little bit full of yourself my friend. I've not read one of your post that I would recognize as any part of the Biblical teaching

Agreed, quite full. Would also agree that his teachings are an aberration.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

When people oppose scripture they become quickly exposed. Enoch repeats his error on every thread as if he is proud of it, LC likes his posts and adds her misguided ideas.
Core error does a few drive by posts, but notice they flee when answered.
It looks like P4t might be responsible for not correcting these errors before they spread. He has slacked off and they are growing like fungus

My bad, but I'm ready to spray some more fungicide. I took off a few days and yous guys have let their heresies spread out of control!

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You just don’t get! If that statement above is true then most certainly there will no one be put in hell yet hell will heavily be populated.

How many sins did Jesus pay to redeem anyone? All of his sins!! If all what sin then can he commit after he was saved that will threaten him with hell, NONE… NADA… Zilch!!

What you are doing is taking the glory away from God and giving it to man. It is evident in the Bible that God is the prime mover of man’s salvation because man has no power to choose God. Man is spiritually dead.

The only way anyone can become save is when the Father draw him and there is no other way!! Wake up and smell the coffee.

To God Be The Glory

Man, if they believed all that I think it would make them Christian! They'll fight against it though, they can't be having God be God and all that, their throne is way too comfy.

It's simple really: The fact remains they have faith in self, not in God. Why do I say that? When it is clearly shown them that God elects based on nothing in man, they revert to: 1) Doing the choosing themselves because they trust self more than God; 2) Then they undo this by saying God chose them because he saw they'd choose him. Thus they were chosen not by grace, which is undeserved, but because of their performance, which isn't grace at all. They've turned grace into deserved favor. They're so blinded by their flesh they cannot see it unless God opens their minds.

Quite the contradictory foolishness, and a completely false gospel.

Bottom line it is meritorious salvation they preach, God saved them because of what they did.

We on the other hand give God all the glory in salvation, with biblical support and are said to have a false Gospel.

Hmmmm. Either we're saved by grace, or by merit. They teach the latter. No need to wonder who is preaching a false gospel, the true Gospel is all of grace, undeserved, unmerited favor.

 

[Mjh29]

That is plain old HERESY. God desires the salvation of all mankind, and if all would repent and believe, all would be saved by grace through faith. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and those who deny this preach heresy.

You want "whosoever believeth" to read as "everyone believing". But that nonsense is refuted over and over again in the Bible. Here is just one verse to demolish that misinterpretation:

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

That corresponds to "whosover believeth" and no amount of twisting Scripture which change to "everyone who is already believing".

The question then is; Why is everyone not saved? If God had the power to save everyone, and intended to save everyone.... what happened? Did He get cold feet? More importantly, what force is so powerful that it can overrule the desires and power of God to the point where He wants to do something, but His Almightly power is just not enough?

You answer; man's will. Man's will is so powerful it can upset the very plans and power of God Himself. You know, by definition anything that is more powerful than God would then become god itself...

 

[Dave L]

That is plain old HERESY. God desires the salvation of all mankind, and if all would repent and believe, all would be saved by grace through faith. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and those who deny this preach heresy.

You want "whosoever believeth" to read as "everyone believing". But that nonsense is refuted over and over again in the Bible. Here is just one verse to demolish that misinterpretation:

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

That corresponds to "whosover believeth" and no amount of twisting Scripture which change to "everyone who is already believing".

"Whosoever will" depends of their believing. If they do not believe, they won't will. Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. So these who will are the saved repenting and sharing in God's blessings.

 

[justbyfaith]

The question then is; Why is everyone not saved? If God had the power to save everyone, and intended to save everyone.... what happened? Did He get cold feet? More importantly, what force is so powerful that it can overrule the desires and power of God to the point where He wants to do something, but His Almightly power is just not enough?

You answer; man's will. Man's will is so powerful it can upset the very plans and power of God Himself. You know, by definition anything that is more powerful than God would then become god itself...

Man has free will because the Lord, in His sovereignty, ordained it to be so. God is still the Almighty One.

 

[Enoch111]

"Whosoever will" depends of their believing.

"Whosoever will" means exactly what it says. It means that God invites anyone and everyone -- regardless of anything -- to come and take of the water of life. This is how Jesus also invited all men to come to Him and plainly stated "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32)

But of course you would rather twist the words of God to suit your false gospel, and you continue to do so rather than repent and show the fear of God in how you handle His Word.

 

[Enoch111]

The question then is; Why is everyone not saved? If God had the power to save everyone, and intended to save everyone.... what happened? Did He get cold feet?

The answer is already found in the Bible. Everyone will not believe, therefore everyone will not be saved. God compels no one to be saved, and God elects no one to be saved either.

If God would use His power to save everyone, then everyone would be saved. But God has made men free moral agents who must CHOOSE to either believe God and love God or refuse to believe Him and be damned. That is why we read "Choose you this day whom ye will serve" and "Choose life". Which also requires repentance, and not all will repent and be converted, because "men loved darkness rather than light".

You answer; man's will. Man's will is so powerful it can upset the very plans and power of God Himself. You know, by definition anything that is more powerful than God would then become god itself...

This is the same old foolish notion that this is a matter of who is more powerful. But the Bible makes it perfectly clear that salvation is NOT a power struggle. The preaching of the Gospel is for the purpose of bringing all men to Christ. It is "the POWER OF GOD unto salvation". But after sinners hear the Gospel they must make a decision.

Anyone who has read Calvinist C. H. Spurgeon's sermons will note that after he preached the Gospel he urged all his listeners to respond to the invitation. He never left the impression that some would be automatically saved (unconditional election).

"...Some men find it difficult to believe in Christ because they are always seeking honor for themselves; desire for the praise of men often blinds the mind and prejudices the spirit. How boldly our great Master speaks! There is no flattery on his lips. He is the faithful and true Witness, the very Word of God. Oh, that all men would give heed to his message!"
Jacob and Doubting Souls—A Parallel, Sermon No. 2470.

So, in spite of his Calvinism, and in spite of himself, Spurgeon could not avoid what the Bible says about God's invitation to all men!

 

[Earburner]

"Whosoever will" means exactly what it says. It means that God invites anyone and everyone -- regardless of anything -- to come and take of the water of life. This is how Jesus also invited all men to come to Him and plainly stated "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32)
But of course you would rather twist the words of God to suit your false gospel, and you continue to do so rather than repent and show the fear of God in how you handle His Word.

John 3[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Dave L]

"Whosoever will" means exactly what it says. It means that God invites anyone and everyone -- regardless of anything -- to come and take of the water of life. This is how Jesus also invited all men to come to Him and plainly stated "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32)

But of course you would rather twist the words of God to suit your false gospel, and you continue to do so rather than repent and show the fear of God in how you handle His Word.

You are making God out to be a nasty bully who threatens those he intimidates with eternal torture if they don't "say uncle". And then offers them bribes if they do. No wonder Dobson was such a hit with his "self esteem" indoctrination for those who cower to such a god as that.

 

[Jun2u]

[QUOTE="justbyfaith, post: 533192, member: 7886"]Man has free will because the Lord, in His sovereignty, ordained it to be so. God is still the Almighty One.[/QUOTE]

Where do you read this? In Joshua 24:15?

Joshua 24 must still be read in light of Romans 3:10-11.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

Anyone who has read Calvinist C. H. Spurgeon's sermons will note that after he preached the Gospel he urged all his listeners to respond to the invitation. He never left the impression that some would be automatically saved (unconditional election).

Spurgeon is NOT the authority. The Bible is (2Tim 3:16-17).

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

Spurgeon is NOT the authority. The Bible is (2Tim 3:16-17).

Who is making Spurgeon *the authority*? Yet Calvinists hold him in high esteem, and there is no question that he was an outstanding preacher of the Gospel.

But Spurgeon's sermons prove that unconditional election is essentially bogus, and I could quote from dozens of his sermons. On the one hand he was a Five Point Calvinist. On the other hand his Gospel messages were asking ALL his hearers to repent and be converted. He was never telling his audience that some of you are already elected for salvation so you do not have to respond to the Gospel.

 

[justbyfaith]

Spurgeon is NOT the authority. The Bible is (2Tim 3:16-17).

To God Be The Glory

The point being that you would do well to follow Spurgeon's example, in not neglecting to give an invitation to sinners to receive Christ. Spurgeon did this in spite of the fact that he followed Calvinism in his theology. He was right to give invitations in all of his services.