Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[SovereignGrace]

Hebrews 2:9 must be read in light of Matthew 1:21 and John 6:44.

If Jesus died for every man, it is therefore correct to say then that there would NO ONE be put to hell because there is no sin to answer for because the “wages of sin is death.”



There are more than 900 “IF(s)” in the Bible. Read my lips: Jesus died ONLY for the elect!!

To God Be The Glory

They cherry pick a verse hither and yon and say 'ta da!'...see I am right! Wrong. They need to go past Hebrew 2:9...

9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying, “I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.” 13 And again, “I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM.” And again,
“BEHOLD, I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME.”

The 'every man' in verse 9 are the same ppl in verse 10...'bringing many sons to glory.'
The 'every man' in verse 9 are the same ppl in verse 11...'He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father.'
The 'every man' in verse 9 are the same ppl in verse 13...'I will proclaim Your name to my brethren.'

 

[Enoch111]

They cherry pick a verse hither and yon and say 'ta da!'...see I am right! Wrong. They need to go past Hebrew 2:9...

Hebrews 2:9 is only ONE out of scores of verses and passages that present UNLIMITED ATONEMENT.

So why don't you do your due diligence and bring them all together to prove yourself wrong? Now that would be a first.

 

[Earburner]

Fair enough:

Matthew 1:21
"... and thou shalt call his name JESUS for he shall save his people from their sins."

If you don't comprehend Matthew 1:21 then try John 6:37; 44.

Keep following a blind leader who gives you "likes" and you too will fall.

To God Be The Glory

That is no evidence for your view for the false concept of the "predestination of the elect".
I can take those same verses and apply it to the concept that every "condemned" person who is "converted" to Christ, and has received the Holy Spirit of God, are those people of whom Jesus shall save. Mat. 18:3; John 3:3-18; Rom. 8:9

 

[Earburner]

Read John 3:18!!
Every person is physically born, being equally "condemned already". No one is predestined to be physically born, as being saved already.
.
All must heed the "call" to believe in Jesus!
If not, then it doesn't matter what you believe about "predestination", for as long as you are breathing Oxygen, the sentence of eternal death (condemnation) shall remain on you, until you do believe in Jesus.

 

[Earburner]

^ IOWS, you shall remain unchosen!

 

[Earburner]

No, they are chosen if God chooses them. Saying they can choose themselves unto salvation is like saying babies birth themselves. Sorry, doesn't happen.

Which of the following is in line with John 3:18 and Rom. 8:9?
1. So what you are saying is, one who is chosen before the foundation of world, doesn't have to come to Jesus for God's forgiveness, and doesn't have to receive the Gift of His Eternal Holy Spirit, because they were not condemned, before the foundation of the world.
IOWS, they believed in Jesus before they breathed Oxygen.
.
2. However, if that is not what you are saying, then you are saying that while one still breathes Oxygen, they must come to Jesus for God's forgiveness, and they must receive the Gift of His Eternal Holy Spirit, otherwise they shall remain "condemned already".

 

[Jun2u]

The 'every man' in verse 9 are the same ppl in verse 10...'bringing many sons to glory.'
The 'every man' in verse 9 are the same ppl in verse 11...'He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father.'
The 'every man' in verse 9 are the same ppl in verse 13...'I will proclaim Your name to my brethren.'

Excellent insight!!!

All the people in Heb 2:9 ARE the same people also in John 6:37.

@Enoch111 had forgotten all about his thread dealing with John 6:37. It tells me that he doesn’t really know how to read and understand Scripture how to connect the dots, that is, he doesn’t know how to connect verses to get a bigger portrait!

To God Be The Glory

 

[CoreIssue]

Clarify

Matthew 1:21 was written to Israel.

 

[Mjh29]

Which of the following is in line with John 3:18 and Rom. 8:9?
1. So what you are saying is, one who is chosen before the foundation of world, doesn't have to come to Jesus for God's forgiveness, and doesn't have to receive the Gift of His Eternal Holy Spirit, because they were not condemned, before the foundation of the world.
IOWS, they believed in Jesus before they breathed Oxygen.
.
2. However, if that is not what you are saying, then you are saying that while one still breathes Oxygen, they must come to Jesus for God's forgiveness, and they must receive the Gift of His Eternal Holy Spirit, otherwise they shall remain "condemned already".

I believe that we are all born fallen, but that if we come to God it is because He has chosen us from the foundation of the world. That does not mean that we are instantaneously saved the moment we are born, but it does mean that [in God's time] we will be saved without question.

 

[Jun2u]

That is no evidence for your view for the false concept of the "predestination of the elect".

It is because you don’t comprehend that the word “predestine” is scriptural.

I can take those same verses and apply it to the concept that every "condemned" person who is "converted" to Christ, and has received the Holy Spirit of God, are those people of whom Jesus shall save.[/QUOTE

I agree! Jesus did NOT come to make bad people good, He came to make dead people LIVE!

To God Be The Glory
]

 

[CoreIssue]

It is because you don’t comprehend that the word “predestine” is scriptural.

Predestined is in the Bible, Romans 8 states quite clearly those God forenew would love him are predestined all the way glorification.

It does not say the predestined them to love him.

 

[Mjh29]

Predestined is in the Bible, Romans 8 states quite clearly those God forenew would love him are predestined all the way glorification.

It does not say the predestined them to love him.

That depends; do you believe loving God is a good work?

 

[Jun2u]

All must heed the "call" to believe in Jesus!
If not, then it doesn't matter what you believe about "predestination", for as long as you are breathing Oxygen, the sentence of eternal death (condemnation) shall remain on you, until you do believe in Jesus.

Error - A spiritually dead person has no life whatsoever in him, and has no power nor capacity to believe or choose for God, nor has he the power to seek God for he is a sinner Rom 3:10-11.

To God Be The Glory

 

[CoreIssue]

That depends; do you believe loving God is a good work?

Don't start that works nonsense.

You say freewill choice is work.

If I choose to close my eyes that is not work. Loving one's child and spouse is not work.

 

[Mjh29]

Don't start that works nonsense.

You say freewill choice is work.

If I choose to close my eyes that is not work. Loving one's child and spouse is not work.

So, you won't even answer a simple question? Is loving God a good work? I think it is.

 

[Earburner]

Error - A spiritually dead person has no life whatsoever in him, and has no power nor capacity to believe or choose for God, nor has he the power to seek God for he is a sinner Rom 3:10-11.

To God Be The Glory

Already has been shown to you, but you choose to ignore it. John 16:7-11
[7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
[8] And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

 

[Jun2u]

[QUOTE="CoreIssue, post: 532298, member: 7990"]Matthew 1:21 was written to Israel.[/QUOTE]

Surely, you jest. Matthew 1:21 must be read in light with John 6:37

Are you referring to John 10: which reads:

“And other sheep (Gentiles) I have, which are not of this fold (Israel): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”

Why don’t you people come to terms that the reformed teachings and understanding of Scripture are much more superior than the teachings of other denominations???

To God Be The Glory

 

[Earburner]

So, you won't even answer a simple question? Is loving God a good work? I think it is.

Here is the scripture of what the good work of God is, that we are suppose to do:
John 6[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Jun2u]

Predestined is in the Bible, Romans 8 states quite clearly those God forenew would love him are predestined all the way glorification.

It does not say the predestined them to love him.

ERROR – I am confident that you have no inkling as to understand the word “foreknew / foreknowledge,” therefore, I am challenging you, what is the meaning of the word “foreknew” in biblical terms and not by way of the secular dictionary?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

Already has been shown to you, but you choose to ignore it. John 16:7-11
[7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
[8] And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Are you saying that Scripture teaches that the comforter did not come until Pentecost or at any other time in the New Testament?

To God Be The Glory