Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[justbyfaith]

[QUOTE="justbyfaith, post: 533192, member: 7886"~]Man has free will because the Lord, in His sovereignty, ordained it to be so. God is still the Almighty One.[~/QUOTE]

Where do you read this? In Joshua 24:15?

Joshua 24 must still be read in light of Romans 3:10-11.

To God Be The Glory

And these must be seen in the light of Revelation 22:17...wherein the reason for choosing to take the water of life freely is not virtue on the part of the one choosing, but...thirst.

 

[Jun2u]

Yes, and "knew" means sexual intimacy, not Divine foreknowledge. You cannot play fast and loose with Scripture.

Did God and the Shulamite have intimate sexual relation in Song of Solomon 6 and 7? All indications suggests that!! Did they?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Anyone who has read Calvinist C. H. Spurgeon's sermons will note that after he preached the Gospel he urged all his listeners to respond to the invitation. He never left the impression that some would be automatically saved (unconditional election).

.

So, in spite of his Calvinism, and in spite of himself, Spurgeon could not avoid what the Bible says about God's invitation to all men!

You're so clueless it's almost unbelievable. Unconditional election is not denied because one pleads with men to be saved, lol! That has to be one of the most lame arguments I've witnessed yet, but surely you can one up yourself shortly.

Sad thing is you believe you were elected because you did something, or conditionally elected, making grace not grace, but as if you earned God's favor.

Frankly you're a heretic who preaches a damnable false gospel.

How utterly ridiculous of you to offer up such an asinine misnomer of unconditional election. If you knew anything about Spurgeon you'd realize he rightly stated "Calvinism is the Gospel" and embraced unconditional election, a term and biblical doctrine you don't come close to knowing or understanding.

You'd also recognize his living out 2 Timothy 2:8-10 in his preaching, just like Paul.

It's hilarious that you found Spurgeon pleading for souls then falsely concluded it disproves unconditional election, lol!!!!! But you're desperate, so go figure. Anyhow, carry on, keep trying to disprove God's Gospel. You're like Will E. Coyote trying to get Road Runner.

 

[Jun2u]

And these must be seen in the light of Revelation 22:17...wherein the reason for choosing to take the water of life freely is not virtue on the part of the one choosing, but...thirst.

How many times were you told no one seeks after God in accord with Rom 3:10-11?

Natural man has no power by whatsoever means he deems necessary whether by choosing or by thirsting, because he is a corps, spiritually dead, dead as a door nail!... Stiff!... No life!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

Frankly you're a heretic who preaches a damnable false gospel.

Your vitriolic post does not change anything. Calvinism is the false gospel which you hold to, and Limited Atonement is indeed heresy -- major heresy.

 

[Jun2u]

Hmmmm. Either we're saved by grace, or by merit. They teach the latter. No need to wonder who is preaching a false gospel, the true Gospel is all of grace, undeserved, unmerited favor.

Sometimes I don’t understand, but I do of course, why God opens the spiritual eyes of some and not others.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Phoneman777]

I am not sure how you miss this...national election to privilege, is not individuals being elected.
If God said He was going to elect out of the USA ,124000 million persons throughout time, it tells you that it is not every person that lived in the USA .
It is a portion or a remnant...get it?.not everyone.

Initially, the ENTIRE NATION entered into the Old Covenant...this means they were all elected, right or wrong?

 

[Jun2u]

But Spurgeon's sermons prove that unconditional election is essentially bogus, and I could quote from dozens of his sermons. On the one hand he was a Five Point Calvinist. On the other hand his Gospel messages were asking ALL his hearers to repent and be converted. He was never telling his audience that some of you are already elected for salvation so you do not have to respond to the Gospel.

Isn’t that what Peter preached, “Repent and be baptized?”

Please @Enoch111 you have no idea what you are talking about, as usual. It is the duty of every child of God to go into all the world and preach the Gospel so that those who (elect) hears the preaching can be converted.

We don’t know who the elect are and that’s the purpose of preaching so that the lost in the house of Israel can hear the Gospel and be saved. This is the methodology by which the lost can be found since Pentecost.

Therefore, Spurgeon need not tell his audience some of you are already elected for salvation so you do not have to respond to the Gospel is perfectly correct. The elect will recognize the preaching because “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” That’s the power of the Gospel working!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

nitially, the ENTIRE NATION entered into the Old Covenant...this means they were all elected, right or wrong?

Wrong.

Isaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved ( Rom 9:27).

To God Be The Glory

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Isn’t that what Peter preached, “Repent and be baptized?”

Please @Enoch111 you have no idea what you are talking about, as usual. It is the duty of every child of God to go into all the world and preach the Gospel so that those who (elect) hears the preaching can be converted.

We don’t know who the elect are and that’s the purpose of preaching so that the lost in the house of Israel can hear the Gospel and be saved. This is the methodology by which the lost can be found since Pentecost.

Therefore, Spurgeon need not tell his audience some of you are already elected for salvation so you do not have to respond to the Gospel is perfectly correct. The elect will recognize the preaching because “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” That’s the power of the Gospel working!!

To God Be The Glory

Enoch111 in his confusion and disdain for God electing whom he wills has conflated unconditional election with hyper Calvinism which isn't Calvinism at all. (But there is another element to this as it is most likely he believes in hyper Calvinism himself, but, LORD willing I'll get to that at a later date).

He refuses to embrace 2 Timothy 2:8-10 which confounds and refutes his position of accusation and disdain. You're correct @Jun2u, we do not know those whom God has elected, but we do preach so they too will be saved, and not one will be lost; John 6:37.

This all goes to show he has no idea what unconditional election is, nor does he understand grace in salvation. Somehow he thinks God found him worthy of saving by some foreseen act he performed. In other words, yet again, he and others see themselves as being chosen because of their performance. That is not grace, that is not Gospel.

 

[Enoch111]

The elect will recognize the preaching because “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” That’s the power of the Gospel working!!

Now who is thoroughly confused? Faith cometh by hearing but ONLY FOR THE ELECT? You won't find that in Romans 10, not even in the text of the Calvinistic Geneva Bible (although they do have some gobbledegook in their footnotes, which should be ignored).

You don't even know the meaning of foreknowledge, election, and predestination, and what that is all about. So let me refresh your memory, before you continue with your confused ideas, and confuse others.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29)

Does it say predestined for (a) eternal life, (b) salvation, or (c) justification? NOT AT ALL.

Why? Because the purpose of predestination and election is clearly and plainly spelled out. To be conformed to the image of His Son.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 Jn 3:2)

Even a child would tell you that that means something else altogether. And out of the mouth of babes and sucklings God has perfected praise.

 

[justbyfaith]

Frankly you're a heretic who preaches a damnable false gospel.

The next step, of course, is for you to try to do to him (and/or me) what Calvin did to Servetus.

 

[justbyfaith]

I want to ask the Calvinist a question that is very simple.

Jesus said, Ye must be born again.

According to Calvinism, what must I do to become born again/saved, if I consider myself unsaved?

I have heard some Calvinists rightly answer: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved (see Acts of the Apostles 16:31).

The only problem with this is that this does not conform to Calvinistic theology; but Calvinists only give lip service to the formula because it is the most concise formula given in the Bible on what a man must do to be saved.

In Calvinistic theology, it would run more like this, Be saved, and you will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ...now where is that found?

I would have to say that it is found only in the imaginations of people who carry a warped theology.

 

[Enoch111]

I would have to say that it is found only in the imaginations of people who carry a warped theology.

And the problem with warped theology is that it thoroughly corrupts the person who holds to it. It becomes like a cancer which metastasizes. The person becomes a helpless victim to his or her delusions.

 

[Phoneman777]

Wrong.

Isaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved ( Rom 9:27).

To God Be The Glory

Let's slow things down a bit:

God...first...elected...Israel...when...He...led...them...out...of...Egypt.

God...later...chose...a...remnant...of...those...previously...elected...ones...who...remained...faithful...to...
Him...while...the...rest...chose...apostasy.

You can now see how it is possible to be elected at the beginning but found not counted among the elected at the end.

 

[Dave L]

Your vitriolic post does not change anything. Calvinism is the false gospel which you hold to, and Limited Atonement is indeed heresy -- major heresy.

Limited Atonement means God saves people by grace. Universal atonement does not save one soul. It only makes salvation by works deceptively believable. That is heresy.

 

[Jun2u]

You can now see how it is possible to be elected at the beginning but found not counted among the elected at the end.

That’s plausible isn’t it? However, it’s like saying that Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, meaning each and every person’s sins in the world, without realizing Scripture speaks hell will heavily be populated or, saying it another way, if Jesus paid for the sins of each and every person in the world, then it means man has no place to go but to heaven.

The problem is man is accountable for his own sins. “The wages of sin is death.”

Therefore all of mankind needs a Savior. Another dilemma is Jesus came to save His people (those that the Father gave to Him - John 6:37) from their sins (Matt 1:21).

So, you see, election is a personal relationship between God and man.

I hope this helps.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Mjh29]

Man has free will because the Lord, in His sovereignty, ordained it to be so. God is still the Almighty One.

So God in His sovereignty made us sovereign over Him, so that He can only work within the confines of what we dictate through our wills? How is that all powerful?

 

[Enoch111]

Limited Atonement means God saves people by grace.

You do not even know your own theology, let alone the true Gospel of Grace. Limited Atonement means Christ died ONLY FOR THE ELECT. And that is heresy, since the Bible states over and over again that Christ died for the sins of the whole world -- all mankind.

Universal atonement does not save one soul.

There is no such thing as "Universal Atonement". It is Unlimited Atonement that is taught in Scripture.

It only makes salvation by works deceptively believable. That is heresy.

No one can be saved by works of any kind whatsoever. That is crystal clear, and those who reject Calvinism DO NOT teach salvation by the works of the Law or any good works (including water baptism).

Salvation is purely by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption. And at the same time God commands all men everywhere to repent.

When you misrepresent what others believe you are lying before God and men. Just remember that, and get a proper understand of your theology, as well as what the Bible ACTUALLY says, as well as what those who reject your false gospel believe. Five Point Calvinism is a subversion of the true Gospel.

 

[Mjh29]

You do not even know your own theology, let alone the true Gospel of Grace. Limited Atonement means Christ died ONLY FOR THE ELECT. And that is heresy, since the Bible states over and over again that Christ died for the sins of the whole world -- all mankind.

There is no such thing as "Universal Atonement". It is Unlimited Atonement that is taught in Scripture.

No one can be saved by works of any kind whatsoever. That is crystal clear, and those who reject Calvinism DO NOT teach salvation by the works of the Law or any good works (including water baptism).

Salvation is purely by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption. And at the same time God commands all men everywhere to repent.

When you misrepresent what others believe you are lying before God and men. Just remember that, and get a proper understand of your theology, as well as what the Bible ACTUALLY says, as well as what those who reject your false gospel believe. Five Point Calvinism is a subversion of the true Gospel.

And, on the surface, this looks good. But then you get to asking;

~ "Well, where does that faith come from?" Not from God, so all from me. This is then works righteousness, because it was the work of your faith that saved you not the grace. In other words, that grace is useless unless you have faith, which is of yourselves.

The only way Arminians can claim they do not believe in works righteousness is if they claim that somehow having faith is not a work. A work is anything that you put forth effort into in order to achieve a desired result or goal.

"Faith" as they define it is "Something I do in order to attain God's grace."

Their "Faith" is the literal definition of a work, and yet somehow they will tell you that it magically is not.

How is faith not a work, when it fits the literal definition of one?