Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Preacher4Truth]

"justbyfaith,

[But God does not have ill-will towards any of His "offspring" (Acts 17:28): He is love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16).]

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

They won't let their godselves be dethroned so they've rewritten the narrative and teach a domesticated god they can control, and a truncated gospel that leaves off what they don't like. After that it's a cake walk, Scripture just needs to be taken out of context to support them instead of the other way around.

I believe God wrote His word in such a manner as to allow them to misuse it to their destruction as per 2 Peter 3:16 .

 

[justbyfaith]

Not all men are God's children.
There is not any teaching about second and third light given
You make this up with no scripture. Salvation is not a game you invent, like red light, green light

I would say, as you did, that:

You have heard these passages explained many times and refuse to believe revealed truth.

The scripture that I would give is a holy look at Romans 1 (which speaks of the light of creation), Romans 2 (which speaks of the light of conscience) and Romans 3 (which reveals the light of Christ and the message of the gospel).

 

[justbyfaith]

2 pet3:9 is speaking of the fact that not one elected person will perish.

That is your interpretation. The truth of the matter is that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Really, you should interpret the verse as though I were saying it to you from my own mouth. The apostles used great plainness of speech.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not all men are God's children.

All men are God's children in that all are created by Him.

However, only those who believe in Jesus Christ are born again of the Holy Spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

"justbyfaith,

[But God does not have ill-will towards any of His "offspring" (Acts 17:28): He is love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16).]

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

The Lord loves the ones to whom He shows wrath.

He commends His love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

His wrath is against ungodliness and unrighteousness; this does not mean that the Lord doesn't love all those whom He created.

His wrath is an outworking of His love. Because our sin causes pain and suffering, He has wrath against it because of the harm it causes.

If a man will not be separated from his sin through faith in the blood of the Cross, God's wrath will be poured out on the sin and the sinner with it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Good points here P4T.
have you noticed the saints in heaven do not have trouble with Gods righteous judgment?

Revelation 19 King James Version (KJV)
19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

It is like they do not read such verses.

These verses show the extent of the ungodliness that is being punished. If it were not that the ungodliness of sinners were irreparably harmful to the state of things, the love of God would excuse it because He does not want to execute wrath on the ungodly, except that His justice requires it and desires it. But another aspect of who the Lord is (His mercy) desires that the sinner receive less than his iniquity deserves.

These two attributes in the heart of the Lord are irreconcilable except in the Cross of Jesus Christ.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

That is your interpretation. The truth of the matter is that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Really, you should interpret the verse as though I were saying it to you from my own mouth. The apostles used great plainness of speech.

I would like you to walk me through this passage verse by verse. SHOW me how it is plain to you.
Then I will do the same back to you.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

All men are God's children in that all are created by Him.

However, only those who believe in Jesus Christ are born again of the Holy Spirit.

Not according to Jesus in Jn 8 when He told the unbelievers they were of the devil.

 

[justbyfaith]

I would like you to walk me through this passage verse by verse. SHOW me how it is plain to you.
Then I will do the same back to you.

You first, or not at all.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

The Lord loves the ones to whom He shows wrath.

He commends His love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

His wrath is against ungodliness and unrighteousness; this does not mean that the Lord doesn't love all those whom He created.

His wrath is an outworking of His love. Because our sin causes pain and suffering, He has wrath against it because of the harm it causes.

If a man will not be separated from his sin through faith in the blood of the Cross, God's wrath will be poured out on the sin and the sinner with it.

Again Roman's 5 is speaking of those justified by faith, not those who remain unsaved. How can you get every verse wrong?
I would show you verse by verse Roman's 5, but you go first, verse by verse. Then I will respond

 

[justbyfaith]

Not according to Jesus in Jn 8 when He told the unbelievers they were of the devil.

They were still created by God.

A gingerbread man was created by a baker, but the gingerbread man ran away and was captured by the baker's competitor. The baker then bought the gingerbread man from the competitor's store. He said, "Now you are twice mine....first I created you..and now I've bought you."

While the gingerbread man was in the competitor's store he was under the authority of, and belonged to the competitor...but was still originally created by the original baker...and therefore once His.

 

[justbyfaith]

but you go first, verse by verse. Then I will respond

It's not that important to me. You first, or not at all.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You first, or not at all.

No....I have posted this several times before. You have ignored it. I do not think you can do it quite frankly, so You say the teaching is quite plain so show it. Then I will show why we differ.

 

[justbyfaith]

Again Roman's 5 is speaking of those justified by faith, not those who remain unsaved.

I would say however that Romans 5:8 tells us that God loved us while we were still sinners.

 

[justbyfaith]

No....I have posted this several times before. You have ignored it. I do not think you can do it quite frankly, so You say the teaching is quite plain so show it. Then I will show why we differ.

Okay, I went. Now it's your turn.

 

[Enoch111]

Not according to Jesus in Jn 8 when He told the unbelievers they were of the devil.

Jesus called the unbelieving Jews who wilfully and deliberately refused to accept Him, spoke lies about Him, and called Him a Samaritan and a devil, children of the devil. Their attitude and their words were devilish.

JOHN 8
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

 

[justbyfaith]

I would like you to walk me through this passage verse by verse. SHOW me how it is plain to you.
Then I will do the same back to you.

2 Peter 3:9 says that the Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The apostles used great plainness of speech (2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv)), so this ought to be interpreted as though I were saying it to you (which I am, in those very words).

 

[justbyfaith]

I reserve the right to correct your doctrine as though you had been the first one to speak.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You first, or not at all.

In other words you can't demonstrate contextual interpretation and want someone else to do it for you so you can deny more biblical truth and fight against it? Why not admit you're incapable of grasping context, and the things of the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 2:14? The Ethiopian eunuch admitted it and it turned out very well for him, Acts 8:27-39. You know what? He not once fought contextually interpreted Scripture in his regeneration. You do so incessantly.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Again Roman's 5 is speaking of those justified by faith, not those who remain unsaved. How can you get every verse wrong?
I would show you verse by verse Roman's 5, but you go first, verse by verse. Then I will respond

I'm fairly certain I know why.