Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Dave L]

The righteousness which is apart from the law is attested to as being righteousness by the law and the prophets.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

This is true. But it is the nature of the new birth to live a holy life and shun sin.

 

[Dave L]

The question is, will you surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ today? (I posit this to all).

God = love and Jesus is God. So when we walk in love Jesus is Lord.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is true. But it is the nature of the new birth to live a holy life and shun sin.

Indeed.

For it is written,

Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[justbyfaith]

God = love and Jesus is God. So when we walk in love Jesus is Lord.

Agreed.

Consider also the following verses:

1Jo 5:3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jo 1:6, And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rom 13:8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9, For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What makes you think you have the good fortune of being one of the elect, when you hear the doctrines of Calvinism? Don't you see that in those doctrines there is the possibility that God did not choose you? Because there are those who will not enter in; it is therefore the luck of the draw.

We don’t go around looking for ‘elect’ and ‘non-elect’ stamps on ppl’s foreheads, as we don’t know who God has chosen and who He hasn’t. Because we don’t know, we preach the to all we can indiscriminately.

You are taking God’s electing love and twisting it in a futile attempt to make it, and conversely Him, look bad.

 

[SovereignGrace]

How is it any virtue on my part to reach up when Jesus reaches down, because I was in a pit and desired to be rescued? And how did I save myself in that? I could never have gotten out of the pit on my own; I needed the Lord to rescue me.

If a life preserver is thrown to someone, and they don't take hold of it, they will drown.

They are already drowned. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,[Ephesians 2:1] ‘Dead’ in Greek is nekros, which means literally a dead corpse. God does not throw a life preserver, but dives in a rescues them, does a spiritual CPR on them and bring them to life.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Why respond if you are already saved? there is no need...

The very moment God quickens them, they respond and are saved. Regeneration and salvation happen simultaneously.

 

[SovereignGrace]

However, I am making a point, that the unbeliever hearing the doctrines of Calvinism, if he thinks he is saved, will not think that he has any need to respond.

The unbeliever couldn’t care less about Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Modalism, seeing they love sin and self too much.

 

[SovereignGrace]

He arbitrarily chose to save some sinners and did not choose to save the rest. But only those whom he chose want to be saved. The rest do not and think the gospel is foolishness.

I don’t believe God arbitrarily does anything Brother.

 

[Dave L]

I don’t believe God arbitrarily does anything Brother.

If he did not arbitrarily choose you for salvation, then he saw something in you that prompted his decision. = respecter of persons.

 

[SovereignGrace]

In that case, there is nothing that I need to do to be saved;

Quite right! Christ did it all for us, seeing we could not do it ourselves.

and therefore the response is unnecessary.

Wrong. But our response towards Him is evidence, not the cause, of our salvation.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And this is what I take issue with as an evangelist. People who believe in Calvinism often think of themselves as saved by arbitrary election and therefore do not see the need to make a commitment to Christ.

Wrong. We are saved by grace through faith.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Because we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

And therefore a man cannot stand in grace apart from faith.

And therefore faith is the catalyst for standing in grace.

Therefore grace does not come first.

Grace started when the Son was the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. Grace started before God said ”Let there be light.”

 

[SovereignGrace]

If he did not arbitrarily choose you for salvation, then he saw something in you that prompted his decision. = respecter of persons.

Definition of arbitrary...


arbitrary
adjective
ar·bi·trary | \ ˈär-bə-ˌtrer-ē , -ˌtre-rē\
Definition of arbitrary


1a: existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will an arbitrary choice when a task is not seen in a meaningful context it is experienced as being arbitrary.— Nehemiah Jordan

b: based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something an arbitrary standard take any arbitrary positive number

2a: not restrained or limited in the exercise of power : ruling by absolute authority an arbitrary government

b: marked by or resulting from the unrestrained and often tyrannical exercise of power protection from arbitrary arrest and detention

3law : depending on individual discretion (as of a judge) and not fixed by law The manner of punishment is arbitrary.

 

[Dave L]

Definition of arbitrary...


arbitrary
adjective
ar·bi·trary | \ ˈär-bə-ˌtrer-ē , -ˌtre-rē\
Definition of arbitrary


1a: existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will an arbitrary choice when a task is not seen in a meaningful context it is experienced as being arbitrary.— Nehemiah Jordan

b: based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something an arbitrary standard take any arbitrary positive number

2a: not restrained or limited in the exercise of power : ruling by absolute authority an arbitrary government

b: marked by or resulting from the unrestrained and often tyrannical exercise of power protection from arbitrary arrest and detention

3law : depending on individual discretion (as of a judge) and not fixed by law The manner of punishment is arbitrary.

What is election based on if not arbitrary?

 

[SovereignGrace]

If he did not arbitrarily choose you for salvation, then he saw something in you that prompted his decision. = respecter of persons.

The reason why I believe arbitrarily is a poor word to us is because...

whim
capricious
random
chance
unreasonable act

All these can be linked to that word. So I think it’s a rather poor word choice.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What is election based on if not arbitrary?

On Himself. When God said why He loved Israel, He tells them it was because He loved them. No other reason was given or needed.

 

[Dave L]

The reason why I believe arbitrarily is a poor word to us is because...

whim
capricious
random
chance
unreasonable act

All these can be linked to that word. So I think it’s a rather poor word choice.

That's OK but I think random selection of individuals from among the same lump of humanity is a bit wordy.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What is election based on if not arbitrary?

Ppl can use arbitrarily and capricious interchangeably. Is God capricious?

 

[SovereignGrace]

That's OK but I think random selection of individuals from among the same lump of humanity is a bit wordy.

But He didn’t randomly elect anyone. It wasn’t like some sort of election lottery where He spun a wheel.