Worshiping God and Jesus

[pslane]

I have read the Bible over and over and the problems I find just make me doubt more and more.

How can I worship God and also worship Jesus? God shows partiality (Jacob and Esau) Cain and Able) (The prodigal son), etc etc and God starts wars and helps his chosen people take other people's lands. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

On the other had, Jesus is kind and gentle and non bias to all people of every race. Where were the wars in the new testament? Jesus is just the opposite of God.

I get so frustrated reading the Bible and seeing this difference between the two but yet, I am supposed to love and worship them both! And the Holy Ghost? Let's not even go there in this thread!

Does this bother anybody else?
Thank you. I will step down off the soap box now.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I have read the Bible over and over and the problems I find just make me doubt more and more.

How can I worship God and also worship Jesus? God shows partiality (Jacob and Esau) Cain and Able) (The prodigal son), etc etc and God starts wars and helps his chosen people take other people's lands. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

On the other had, Jesus is kind and gentle and non bias to all people of every race. Where were the wars in the new testament? Jesus is just the opposite of God.

I get so frustrated reading the Bible and seeing this difference between the two but yet, I am supposed to love and worship them both! And the Holy Ghost? Let's not even go there in this thread!

Does this bother anybody else?
Thank you. I will step down off the soap box now.

You are not the only one it has bothered. There is an apparent contradiction, yeah? So which is He? Others will undoubtedly tell you differently but if the God of the Old Testament is the opposite of the Lord of the New Testament, then it is the Old Testament God that isn't being seen clearly. Don't accept the explanation of one is the Old Testament God and the other is Jesus Christ, friend of sinners. They are the same God. God doesn't change. Ask Him to heal the lens you view scripture through. Ask Him to make Christ that lens. Ask for sight. I say this because He did it for me. The Jews read the Old Testament day after day, and studied it but they couldn't see Him in the words. Ask Him to let you see Him. I've had the same doubts before.

 

[APAK]

How long have you been reading the Bible? Do you consider yourself a true believer of Jesus Christ?

Welcome

APAK

 

[Nomad]

Jesus is just the opposite of God.

I know it can seem that way, but consider the following examples:

Rev 19:11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself.
Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
Rev 19:15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'
Mat 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
Mat 25:38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
Mat 25:39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
Mat 25:44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?'
Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Likewise, there are examples of the Father being gracious and tender in the Old Testament.

2Ki 13:23 But the LORD was gracious to them and had compassion on them, and he turned toward them, because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and would not destroy them, nor has he cast them from his presence until now.

Exo 33:19 And he said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name 'The LORD.' And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.

 

[Albert Finch]

"But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit." - 2 Corinthians 3:18

We are born into this world into an earthly realm. We are not born into the realm of God's Spirit; that's why through Jesus we need to be born AGAIN into the spiritual realm. When you are born again, you are given the "Rite of passage" to enter from one dimension to another. From the natural into the eternal.
The Bible talks about the realms of glory. We are changed "from glory to glory" (2 Corinthians 3:18). So there are realms of glory not just one realm.
When people are born again they begin to develop a hunger for the spiritual realm? They begin to get a feeling that there is more: there is more to this life; there is more to this place called earth. That is because the spirit now in them doesn't belong here; the spirit in them comes from above and from another realm – a heavenly place. That's why you will never be content in an earthbound realm. You were created for another environment.

ANOTHER REALM

When Jesus died and rose again, He purchased our salvation. But salvation includes so much more than we first think. Jesus redeemed us from the law and the repercussions of being under the law and failing to meet its demands. "We have all come short..." the apostle Paul said (Romans 3:23). Jesus redeemed us from death. He took the keys of Hell and released us from the power of the evil one.

God gave us power to transit into another realm. This other realm is His realm; it's the realm where God dwells and His angels, and it's the realm of the heavenly city and of the spiritual elements of God and His Kingdom. He made us joint heirs with Christ. It's not just when we finally get to Heaven, it's here now. His Kingdom has come among us and in us and He wants it to flow through us and affect those around us.

We receive by faith the things He has provided and made available through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. It's a new and living way and we should walk in it.

RITE OF PASSAGE

He gave you a new nature to transplant you or translate you into another realm and into the realm of eternity. This is the realm of Heaven where the presence of God dwells continually day and night. Jesus purchased you the RITE OF PASSAGE with His Blood. So that now you are not restricted or limited to the natural realm.

 

[Windmillcharge]

I have read the Bible over and over and the problems I find just make me doubt more and more.

How can I worship God and also worship Jesus? God shows partiality (Jacob and Esau) Cain and Able) (The prodigal son), etc etc and God starts wars and helps his chosen people take other people's lands. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

On the other had, Jesus is kind and gentle and non bias to all people of every race. Where were the wars in the new testament? Jesus is just the opposite of God.

I get so frustrated reading the Bible and seeing this difference between the two but yet, I am supposed to love and worship them both! And the Holy Ghost? Let's not even go there in this thread!

Does this bother anybody else?
Thank you. I will step down off the soap box now.

Who else are you going to worship/serve?

God created the universe, us etc. We rebelled against God.

There are No innocent people, only enemies of God or repentant enemies turned slaves of God.
That is what the bible teaches, so your option are to reject God and all that he represents or to accept him.

May I point out that every problem you have with the bible/Christianity has been raised before and has been answered.
Sites like coldcasechristianity or reasonablefaith, toughquestionsanswered or thepoachedegg etc will if you use the search function you can finf far clever and clearer answers than I can give.

 

[bbyrd009]

I have read the Bible over and over and the problems I find just make me doubt more and more.

ah, could not have put it better, sounds like you are in great shape to me!

How can I worship God and also worship Jesus?

note that "Two Greeks" came to worship Jesus, and He "hid from them."

God shows partiality (Jacob and Esau) Cain and Able) (The prodigal son), etc etc

those can be read a different way though, too, Jacob is a guy who literally put on sheep's wool to fool his father, Esau (Edom) = "Adam," etc. These "2s" or "3s" are repeating themes in Scripture, that predate the Bible even. You might contemplate them as reflections of you, your divided nature

God starts wars and helps his chosen people take other people's lands.

ok well don't forget that God also blew His chosen ppl out of the water so to speak too, ok.
Also those other ppl were sacrificing their children to Molech, etc

On the other had, Jesus is kind and gentle and non bias to all people of every race.

Christ is a Lion and a Lamb, yes

Where were the wars in the new testament?

oh, baptizing ppl in the Jordan in a Theocracy pretty much amounts to sedition, the wars are in there imo, they have just become spiritual

but yet, I am supposed to love and worship them both!

says who? savage wolves?

define 'worship'

And the Holy Ghost? Let's not even go there in this thread!

ha, like the Spirit is maybe a cousin of Casper's or something huh, lol.
one day of reflecting upon which "spirit" you might project into a room should clear up what "spirit" means, imo.
you can send little kids and dogs into hiding, or have them all pushing to get into the center of the action right

 

[Armadillo]

And the Holy Ghost? Let's not even go there in this thread!

Without the Holy Ghost you are left to your own understanding and therein lies the difficulty.

 

[lforrest]

Looking only at historical accounts, the Holy Spirit appears to be God's means of directly interacting with this world. His physical manifestations were there from the beginning, hovering over the waters. In the temple he hovered over the Arc. He can still manifest as a cloud, according to what I have heard.

But even when he doesn't manifest, he dwells in believers of Jesus christ. Through them God has another means of interacting with the world.

 

[Triumph1300]

pslane, where do you go to church?
What kind of church?

I believe it can make a big difference where you attend and study.

 

[bbyrd009]

ah, ya, i meant to ask if you ever paid any money to those who taught you what you now/used to understand, good point

501 (6)
c3 (6)
1023 (6)

 

[mjrhealth]

I have read the Bible over and over and the problems I find just make me doubt more and more.

How can I worship God and also worship Jesus? God shows partiality (Jacob and Esau) Cain and Able) (The prodigal son), etc etc and God starts wars and helps his chosen people take other people's lands. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

On the other had, Jesus is kind and gentle and non bias to all people of every race. Where were the wars in the new testament? Jesus is just the opposite of God.

I get so frustrated reading the Bible and seeing this difference between the two but yet, I am supposed to love and worship them both! And the Holy Ghost? Let's not even go there in this thread!

Does this bother anybody else?
Thank you. I will step down off the soap box now.

How can I worship God and also worship Jesus? God shows partiality (Jacob and Esau) Cain and Able) (The prodigal son), etc etc and God starts wars and helps his chosen people take other people's lands. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Why dont you try just talking to Him, everything changed at Penetecost, you have 3 sets of ears willing to listen, all you need to do is open your mouth, than you will have Gods spirit to teach you, than you will see the bible in a different light,

God bless

 

[DPMartin]

I have read the Bible over and over and the problems I find just make me doubt more and more.

How can I worship God and also worship Jesus? God shows partiality (Jacob and Esau) Cain and Able) (The prodigal son), etc etc and God starts wars and helps his chosen people take other people's lands. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

On the other had, Jesus is kind and gentle and non bias to all people of every race. Where were the wars in the new testament? Jesus is just the opposite of God.

I get so frustrated reading the Bible and seeing this difference between the two but yet, I am supposed to love and worship them both! And the Holy Ghost? Let's not even go there in this thread!

Does this bother anybody else?
Thank you. I will step down off the soap box now.

well if you don't believe the bible then why are telling us you're Christian?


if you've read the bible as you've said and paid attention to it, you'd notice that God loves those who love Him, He is faith to the faithful so on and so forth, but He has no compunction with the elimination of otherwise. the flood should be enough proof of that. Noah found grace in God's sight, the rest did not. just because something might be available doesn't mean everyone is entitled it because they breath.

the prevailing governments in the world today is communism and capitalism (some call democracy) one teaches its children they are entitled to have, and the other teaches its children you earn what to have. nether are true in the Kingdom of Heaven. in the Kingdom of Heaven the King choses what you have, even the citizenship in the Kingdom itself.


when building a building stones are chosen and cut to fit a place in the building. could be thresholds could be lentils could be pillars could be beams could be corners so on and so forth. the material, the piece, and the form of the piece, or stone or block or brick is chosen and formed by the builder. the building blocks are in their place by the choice of the build. the block choses or is entitled nothing. the Creator and Judge is entitled to chose what ever He finds pleasing to Himself to fulfill His will. not that He said to John the Baptist "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased".


don't honor or at the least fear that fact and acknowledge His Beloved Son in whom He is well pleased, and see what happens.



sure you understand that if God can be pleased He can be displeased wroth angry.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".

it's just men who don't understand God way, so he had to make himself known on our level.

and our Leve is the hate, murder, lawlessness... ect well you name it.

but it's not God, but us.

PCY

 

[pslane]

Sorry I'm late posting but I've been kinda sick a few days and haven't been near the computer.

Nomad: I have been reading the Bible my whole life and before I could read, my Mother read it to me. Lately I have been listening to it with Audible and I get so much more out of it having it read to me this way.

I am a true believer of Jesus Christ and I also believe in the Trinity even though I don't understand it. But since Jesus taught it, I believe it to be true.

I rarely ever read the Revelation anymore after reading it a couple times and going to a workshop for it. I made my own decisions about it. I believe it is all code and is interpreted differently by different people, including Theologians. Does anybody really understand it? Or do they just think they do.

Windmillcharge: Thank you for the suggested sites to visit. I will be sure and visit them.

VictoryinJesus: I liked your reply. But it is hard to see Jesus in the Old Testament.

About the original subject: When I am reading the Old Testament and come to verses like Ezekiel 5:10, I cannot go on reading. That is not something Jesus would say. Not unless Jesus had multiple personalities. Maybe He does........after all look at Him in The Revelation!

I am not trying to make anybody mad or start a heated debate here. I just like that I have finally found a place where I can write down how I feel and what concerns me and ask others how they feel about it. It's like therapy for me to do this.

 

[Nomad]

I am not trying to make anybody mad or start a heated debate here. I just like that I have finally found a place where I can write down how I feel and what concerns me and ask others how they feel about it. It's like therapy for me to do this.

No worries. I'm glad you're finding comfort here.

 

[aspen]

I have read the Bible over and over and the problems I find just make me doubt more and more.

How can I worship God and also worship Jesus? God shows partiality (Jacob and Esau) Cain and Able) (The prodigal son), etc etc and God starts wars and helps his chosen people take other people's lands. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

On the other had, Jesus is kind and gentle and non bias to all people of every race. Where were the wars in the new testament? Jesus is just the opposite of God.

I get so frustrated reading the Bible and seeing this difference between the two but yet, I am supposed to love and worship them both! And the Holy Ghost? Let's not even go there in this thread!

Does this bother anybody else?
Thank you. I will step down off the soap box now.

People in th OT lost sight of the message God was conveying, which was, love perfectly. By the time Jesus came to us, we had lost focus and legalized love and made it exclusive based on status and hypocritical judgments of morality. Jesus refocused us and called us to go forth and love, once again.

 

[amadeus]

Sorry I'm late posting but I've been kinda sick a few days and haven't been near the computer.

Nomad: I have been reading the Bible my whole life and before I could read, my Mother read it to me. Lately I have been listening to it with Audible and I get so much more out of it having it read to me this way.

I am a true believer of Jesus Christ and I also believe in the Trinity even though I don't understand it. But since Jesus taught it, I believe it to be true.

I rarely ever read the Revelation anymore after reading it a couple times and going to a workshop for it. I made my own decisions about it. I believe it is all code and is interpreted differently by different people, including Theologians. Does anybody really understand it? Or do they just think they do.

Not only the Revelation, but many parts of scripture are not understood or even misunderstood. You're a Bible reader so you already know this. So the listen to others as you apparently already do, but decide according to what God places in your heart. In another place you said that you cannot "feel" the Holy Spirit, but maybe feeling God is what you already do when you read and you question even as you are doing here?

When you have only a question or when you have an answer, give God the glory anyway and don't stop seeking.

VictoryinJesus: I liked your reply. But it is hard to see Jesus in the Old Testament.

As you continue to walk in God and to pray from the heart many of the things you don't present understand may well help you to see Jesus more clearly. He certainly is in the OT, but as you say sometimes it is hard to see.

David was seeking to see better:

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

Paul wrote it this way:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

About the original subject: When I am reading the Old Testament and come to verses like Ezekiel 5:10, I cannot go on reading. That is not something Jesus would say. Not unless Jesus had multiple personalities. Maybe He does........after all look at Him in The Revelation!

I am not trying to make anybody mad or start a heated debate here. I just like that I have finally found a place where I can write down how I feel and what concerns me and ask others how they feel about it. It's like therapy for me to do this.

Consider the verse:

"Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers; and I will execute judgments in thee, and the whole remnant of thee will I scatter into all the winds." Ezek 5:10

All of us are eating each other when we take the other guy's ways or understanding as our own. This likely to be even more so for the natural parent [father or mother or both] we live with and listen to [in most cases] for our formative years in the flesh and also often in the spirit [or Spirit].

Consider what Jesus said:

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." John 6:53-56

People sometime get so hung up on where or whether or how to eat the bread made from grain or drink the wine or juice made from grapes they forget or overlook the deeper meaning "eating His flesh" and "drinking His blood". Is Jesus not the Word of God? When you read you Bible are you not eating His Flesh? If you don't understand what you read initially it could be that it is because the flesh is still dead and need to be brought to Life within you. When the understanding of something from scripture comes to you is that not the bringing it to Life?

Consider the following verse and what you have been taught about its meaning and then its meaning in connection with what I wrote above:

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

How can I worship God and also worship Jesus?

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Let's examine how God the Father is glorified.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

There is no other way that God the Father is glorified by. So if you really want to honor the Father, you do so by honoring the Son as God the Saviour.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[pia]

Does this bother anybody else?
Thank you. I will step down off the soap box now.

You bet you ! Some will try to tell you this isn't possible, but here goes......You can have a living real relationship with Jesus and you can be indwelt by His Holy Spirit and He can respond to you where ever you are at right now, and He can take you through and up.....You can receive understanding about the Bible but other things as well.....He is a resurrected being, not dead, and somehow He is able to reveal Himself to whoever 'calls upon Him with all of their heart' ( His words, not mine).....When you worship Jesus, you are worshiping God the Father, and when you worship the Father, you are also worshiping Jesus...They are One.
Remember, there is NO fear in Love, and all He has to give us is Love........Also, in 30'odd years of knowing Him, I have never seen Him or perceived Him to take offense or even seeming disheartened in any way.....I guess from His perspective this is all over and He won ! Hahahah, so He does have a great position from which to have perspective....... All the best with it, and give it time...