WOULD YOU LIKE TO JOIN A NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH?

[Eternally Grateful]

No - the Church's one foundation is Jesus Christ, her Lord. He is the only Rock on which to build, anything else is built on sand.

again it comes to interpretation. If they would seek the word instead of listening to what they are told. they would see the truth

"you are peter (petros, a stone or pebble) and on this ROCK (Boulder large stone) I will build my church

Peter is the small stone. one of the foundation stone. Jesus is the boulder. the rock which the Church is built on. (more literally. the fact that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God)

 

[Illuminator]

again it comes to interpretation. If they would seek the word instead of listening to what they are told. they would see the truth

"you are peter (petros, a stone or pebble) and on this ROCK (Boulder large stone) I will build my church

Peter is the small stone. one of the foundation stone. Jesus is the boulder. the rock which the Church is built on. (more literally. the fact that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God)

2 Sam. 22:2-3, 32, 47; 23:3; Psalm 18:2,31,46; 19:4; 28:1; 42:9; 62:2,6,7; 89:26; 94:22; 144:1-2 – in these verses, God is also called “rock.” Hence, from these verses, non-Catholics often argue that God, and not Peter, is the rock that Jesus is referring to in Matt. 16:18. This argument not only ignores the plain meaning of the applicable texts, but also assumes words used in Scripture can only have one meaning. This, of course, is not true. For example:

1 Cor. 3:11 – Jesus is called the only foundation of the Church, and yet in Eph. 2:20, the apostles are called the foundation of the Church. Similarly, in 1 Peter 2:25, Jesus is called the Shepherd of the flock, but in Acts 20:28, the apostles are called the shepherds of the flock. These verses show that there are multiple metaphors for the Church, and that words used by the inspired writers of Scripture can have various meanings. Catholics agree that God is the rock of the Church, but this does not mean He cannot confer this distinction upon Peter as well, to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus said in Aramaic, you are “Kepha” and on this “Kepha” I will build my Church. In Aramaic, “kepha” means a massive stone, and “evna” means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is “petra”, that “Petros” actually means “a small rock”, and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus’ blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used “Kepha,” not “evna.” Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the “small rock,” he would have used “lithos” which means a little pebble in Greek. Also, Petros and petra were synonyms at the time the Gospel was written, so any attempt to distinguish the two words is inconsequential. Thus, Jesus called Peter the massive rock, not the little pebble, on which He would build the Church. (You don’t even need Matt. 16:18 to prove Peter is the rock because Jesus renamed Simon “rock” in Mark 3:16 and John 1:42!).

Matt. 16:18 – also, in quoting “on this rock,” the Scriptures use the Greek construction “tautee tee” which means on “this” rock; on “this same” rock; or on “this very” rock. “Tautee tee” is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”

 

[Illuminator]

Matt. 16:18-19 – in addition, to argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter’s leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter – you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom).

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut the Protestant argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

2 Sam. 22:2-3, 32, 47; 23:3; Psalm 18:2,31,46; 19:4; 28:1; 42:9; 62:2,6,7; 89:26; 94:22; 144:1-2 – in these verses, God is also called “rock.” Hence, from these verses, non-Catholics often argue that God, and not Peter, is the rock that Jesus is referring to in Matt. 16:18. This argument not only ignores the plain meaning of the applicable texts, but also assumes words used in Scripture can only have one meaning. This, of course, is not true. For example:

1 Cor. 3:11 – Jesus is called the only foundation of the Church, and yet in Eph. 2:20, the apostles are called the foundation of the Church. Similarly, in 1 Peter 2:25, Jesus is called the Shepherd of the flock, but in Acts 20:28, the apostles are called the shepherds of the flock. These verses show that there are multiple metaphors for the Church, and that words used by the inspired writers of Scripture can have various meanings. Catholics agree that God is the rock of the Church, but this does not mean He cannot confer this distinction upon Peter as well, to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus said in Aramaic, you are “Kepha” and on this “Kepha” I will build my Church. In Aramaic, “kepha” means a massive stone, and “evna” means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is “petra”, that “Petros” actually means “a small rock”, and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus’ blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used “Kepha,” not “evna.” Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the “small rock,” he would have used “lithos” which means a little pebble in Greek. Also, Petros and petra were synonyms at the time the Gospel was written, so any attempt to distinguish the two words is inconsequential. Thus, Jesus called Peter the massive rock, not the little pebble, on which He would build the Church. (You don’t even need Matt. 16:18 to prove Peter is the rock because Jesus renamed Simon “rock” in Mark 3:16 and John 1:42!).

Matt. 16:18 – also, in quoting “on this rock,” the Scriptures use the Greek construction “tautee tee” which means on “this” rock; on “this same” rock; or on “this very” rock. “Tautee tee” is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”

Jesus is called the cornerstone, A building is built on the cornerstone. If the cornerstone if flawed or if it is not set right, the building will not stand,

Peter is ONE of the many foundation stones. A foundation stone is just a stone set in place in which the wall is built. By himself. Peter can not hold the walls of the church. so the church is literally not built on him, but is laid on ALL the apostles and prophets

Also a cornerstone stone is much larger than a foundation stone. Hence the larger stone is Christ. The smaller stone is peter as peter as one of the foundation stones.

God did not build his church on one man. He built it on Christ.

You can deny and try to twist what Jesus said all you want and post all these passage. it does not help your case.

JESUS is the STONE the church is built on. Not Peter. He was also the stone which the builders rejected (the jews) which became the CHIEF cornerstone

Psalm 118:22
The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.

Peter is just ONE of the foundation stones.

 

[Truther]

Then he cannot be high priest

Why?

 

[theefaith]

Why?

cos you said there are no low priests

 

[Pearl]

cos you said there are no low priests

If we are truly born again we are called saints and are part of the Royal priesthood of believers with Jesus as our High Priest. The curtain has been torn and we can enter into the most holy place and approach God directly without the need of a third party. This is our privilege as part of God family. It is a wonderful thing.

 

[Truther]

cos you said there are no low priests

.....Not under Melchesidek.

Under Christ.

 

[theefaith]

If we are truly born again we are called saints and are part of the Royal priesthood of believers with Jesus as our High Priest. The curtain has been torn and we can enter into the most holy place and approach God directly without the need of a third party. This is our privilege as part of God family. It is a wonderful thing.

does not change the facts
Christ is high priest according the the order of Melchizedek not the royal priesthood

 

[theefaith]

If we are truly born again we are called saints and are part of the Royal priesthood of believers with Jesus as our High Priest. The curtain has been torn and we can enter into the most holy place and approach God directly without the need of a third party. This is our privilege as part of God family. It is a wonderful thing.

so you’re denying that Christ is mediator?


Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

 

[Pearl]

does not change the facts
Christ is high priest according the the order of Melchizedek not the royal priesthood

So who is the high priest of the Royal priesthood?

 

[Pearl]

so you’re denying that Christ is mediator?

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

We pray to God in the name of Jesus we do not need other mediators such as priests who are merely fallible men.

 

[theefaith]

If we are truly born again we are called saints and are part of the Royal priesthood of believers with Jesus as our High Priest. The curtain has been torn and we can enter into the most holy place and approach God directly without the need of a third party. This is our privilege as part of God family. It is a wonderful thing.

1 Timothy 4:14
Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery

A presbyter is a priest!

 

[theefaith]

.....Not under Melchesidek.

Under Christ.

simple logic you cannot have a high priest without low priests

 

[Pearl]

1 Timothy 4:14
Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery

A presbyter is a priest!

The gift I received by the laying on of hands was the gift of tongues.

 

[theefaith]

So who is the high priest of the Royal priesthood?

the royal priesthood is a non-ministerial priesthood

 

[theefaith]

The gift I received by the laying on of hands was the gift of tongues.

apologetics requires thinking not emoting

 

[Pearl]

the royal priesthood is a non-ministerial priesthood

I don't know what that means.

 

[Pearl]

apologetics requires thinking not emoting

So when somebody comes to Jesus it must be through thought and not from the heart?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

apologetics requires thinking not emoting

Your not thinking

You are listening to what you have been told by your church, and following them no matter what.

that's not thinking, that is being told what to believe