WOULD YOU LIKE TO JOIN A NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH?

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Bobby Jo

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... and lest anyone accuse me of being Anti-Catholic, I'm simply Anti-Cult Mentality for ANY RELIGION. So now I'll cite where MANY religions defy Scripture:

Matt. 23:8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ.

... where some "Pastors" assert that THEY are the "head" of the church.

Where after Eve sinned she was placed below her HUSBAND; but Adam still remained below GOD. And so if a man places himself below another man, -- he's a WOMAN.


We all choose,
Bobby Jo
 

Illuminator

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Any insistence that ANY church set of doctrines are infallible is nonsense, -- especially the Catholic church.

And that's not an "opinion", it's a FACT, -- but it doesn't dissuade cult members.
Bobby Jo
We believe the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 was infallible. The decisions reached by the Apostles and elders was without error, because the Holy Spirit was with them as it clearly states in verse 28:
28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
This gift of infallibility means that the Church is prevented from teaching error by the power of the Holy Spirit (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)

Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 – Jesus tells His apostles it is not they who speak, but the Spirit of their Father speaking through them. If the Spirit is the one speaking and leading the Church, the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals. (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)

Matt. 16:19 – for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.

Matt. 28:20 – Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus’ presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.

Mark 8:33 – non-Catholics sometimes use this verse to down play Peter’s authority. This does not make sense. In this verse, Jesus rebukes Peter to show the import of His Messianic role as the Savior of humanity. Moreover, at this point, Peter was not yet the Pope with the keys, and Jesus did not rebuke Peter for his teaching. Jesus rebuked Peter for his lack of understanding.

Luke 10:16 – whoever hears you, hears me. Whoever rejects you, rejects me. Jesus is very clear that the bishops of the Church speak with Christ’s infallible authority.

Your definition of "infallible", and the way you use it, is not biblical. The sola scripturists don't get it either.
 
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Illuminator

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DIFFERENCES between the Catholic Church and Cults

Catholic Church
The Catholic Church has sources of authority other than the leader (the Pope), such as the Bible, Councils, Church Law, and writings by other Catholic authorities.

Cults
The leader is the sole source of authority for the group.


Catholic Church
A new member clearly knows what the organization is that he (she) is joining, is warned in advance about what is expected, and what he (she) can and cannot do, often has to wait for several months to a year before joining the Church to make sure that the obligations of being a Catholic are understood.

Cults
A new member is deliberately deceived about the obligations of belonging to the group. Cult recruits often attend a cult activity, are lured into "staying for a while," and soon find that they have joined the cult for life, or as one group requires, members sign up for a "billion year contract...." , is not warned in advance about what is expected, and what he (she) can and cannot do, is often duped into joining a cult during the course of a weekend, which was supposed to be a fun weekend with some new friends, or it could even have been advertised as a weekend seminar to quit smoking or lose weight.


A member of the Catholic Church retains freedom of politics, friends, family association, selection of spouse, and information access to television, radio, reading material, telephone, internet and mail.

Cults restrict the access that members have to outside sources of information, and tell cult members that their families and former friends are "evil" or "sinners" because they don't belong to the cult.

A member of the Catholic Church is told to remain in the Church, but is never physically forced to remain.

Members of a religious cult are physically forced, if necessary, to remain in the group. Sometimes group members who try to leave are kidnapped and brought back to the group. Members the cult group in Jonestown Guyana who tried to resist the order from Jim Jones to commit suicide were gunned down by other cult members.

Medical and dental care are available, encouraged, and permitted for members of the Catholic Church. History shows that the Catholic Church was the first one to build hospitals, and provided free medical care to those who could not afford it.

Many cults discourage and sometimes forbid medical care.

Training and education received in Catholic schools are usable later in life. History shows that the Catholic Church was the one building schools and universities when no-one else was during the so-called "Dark Ages."

Cults do not necessarily train a person in anything that has any value in the greater society.

In the Catholic Church, public records are kept. Members have access to their own records.

Cult records, if they exist, are confidential, hidden from members, and not shared.

A system of Church Law is provided within the Catholic Church. A Church member can also utilize legal and law enforcement agencies and other representatives of the civil law if needed.

In cults, there is only the closed, internal system of justice, with no appeal or recourse to outside support.

Families of Church members talk and deal directly with Catholic schools. Children may attend Catholic or non-Catholic schools.

In cults, children, child rearing, and education are often under the absolute control of the cult leader.

Catholicism respects the laws of the land. The Catholic Church negotiates a concordat with the government of every nation, in which the Church and the state agree upon any exemptions from the civil law that are available to Church members.

Cults consider themselves above the law, and are a law unto themselves, and cult leaders are accountable to no one, not even their members.

A Church member gets to keep his (her) money, property, gifts and inheritances. Pope Leo XIII wrote defending private property in his encyclical "Rerum Novarum," May 15, 1891.

In many cults, members are expected to turn over to the cult all money and worldly possessions.

Rational behavior is valued in the Catholic Church. Elsewhere we have proven that the Catholic Church has condemned those who discourage the use of reason and rational thinking.

The right for members of the Catholic Church to make suggestions and offer criticism to Church leaders is protected by Church Law.

The cult leader is always right, and the members who disagree, as well as all outsiders, are always wrong. Members who criticize the leader are ridiculed and often treated violently, or may simply be expelled from the group.

Church members cannot be used for medical and psychological experiments without their informed consent.

Cults essentially perform psychological experiments on their members through implementing so-called thought-reform processes without members' knowledge or consent.

Reading, education, and knowledge are encouraged by the Catholic Church. It was the Catholic Church that preserved books and learning, and which founded the first universities, and which brings education wherever Catholic missionary effort goes.

If cults do any education, it is only in their own teachings. Members come to know less and less about the outside world; contact with or information about life outside the cult is sometimes openly frowned upon, if not forbidden.

The Catholic Church looks for new members among all races and classes of people. The Church does not concentrate their search for new members among the lonely and the vulnerable and the wealthy.

Cults do not look for new members with equal effort among all races and classes of people. Cult concentrate their recruiting efforts among certain groups: Cults target the lonely and the vulnerable.
Cults target rich individuals.


In the Catholic Church, physical fitness is never discouraged. In some monastic orders, like the Dominicans, physical fitness exercises are mandatory.

Cults rarely encourage fitness or good health, except perhaps for members who serve as security guards or thugs.

Adequate and properly balanced nourishment is never discouraged by the Catholic Church. Catholic religious orders make balanced meals at regularly scheduled times mandatory for all members.

Many cults encourage or require unhealthy and bizarre diets. Typically, because of intense work schedules, lack of funds, and other cult demands, cult members are not able to maintain healthy eating habits.

In the Catholic Church, many methods of instruction and education are used, but brainwashing, or thought-reform, is not used. Cults discourage members from thinking independently, and their normal thought processes are stifled and broken.
Catholicism is not a cult.
 

Brakelite

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More of your historically-bankrupt nonsense . . .

It was Pope St. Celestine I, who commissioned entrusted Patrick with the mission of evangelizing Ireland.
He had previously sent Palladius, who abandoned his post out of fear of the pagans. St. Germain, Bishop of Auxerre, recommended Patrick to the pope. Patrick had been held captive by these same pagans, so he knew how to deal with them.

ALL of this is attested to by the writer of St. Germain's biographer in the ninth century, Heric of Auxerre:
"Since the glory of the father shines in the training of the children, of the many sons in Christ whom St. Germain is believed to have had as disciples in religion, let it suffice to make mention here, very briefly, of one most famous, Patrick, the special Apostle of the Irish nation, as the record of his work proves. Subject to that most holy discipleship for 18 years, he drank in no little knowledge in Holy Scripture from the stream of so great a well-spring. Germain sent him, accompanied by Segetius, his priest, to Celestine, Pope of Rome, approved of by whose judgement, supported by whose authority, and strengthened by whose blessing, he went on his way to Ireland."

Your anti-Catholic revisions didn't pop up until after the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.
Gian Domenico Mansi was an Italian prelate, theologian, scholar and historian, known for his massive works on the Church councils. In his work Sacrorum Conciliorum Nova et Amplissima Collectio, vol. 23, p. 73. You may read the following...
“He went to Rome to have [ecclesiastical] orders given him; and Caelestinus, abbot of Rome, he it is that read orders over him, Gemanus and Amatho, king of the Romans, being present with them. .. And when the orders were a reading out, the three choirs mutually responded, namely the choir of the household of heaven, and the choir of the Romans, and the choir of the children from the wood of Fochlad. This is what all sang: ‘All we Irish beseech thee, holy Patrick, to come and walk among us and to free us.’”
So the choirs of heaven BoL are Irish?
The were two Patricks it seems... One real and one fictitious. One legend has the fictitious Patrick doing the following... in order to provide passage for a leper when there was no place on the boat, threw his portable stone altar into the sea. The stone did not go to the bottom, nor was it outdistanced by the boat, but it floated around the boat with the leper on it until it reached Ireland.
Another myth went like this... “Sleep came over the inhabitants of Rome, so that Patrick brought away as much as he wanted of the relics. Afterward those relics were taken to Armagh by the counsel of God and the counsel of the men of Ireland. What was brought then was three hundred and threescore and five relics, together with the relics of Paul and Peter and Lawrence and Stephen, and many others. And a sheet was there with Christ’s blood [thereon] and with the hair of Mary the Virgin." These, and others, are the only evidence Patrick was ever in Rome. Apart from the odd narrative 5 or6 hundred years later... Authors as gullible as you it seems. Why did not Patrick himself every mention a visit to Rome and the approval of the auspicious, or should that be suspicious, Celestine? Not even the church itself had any official records of ever having anything whatsoever to do with Patrick. Did you know Patrick's grandfather was a presbyter? What Rome would have termed bishop? What Catholic missionaries went to Britain 100 or more years at least before Patrick to establish the Celtic church?
Did you know that at the same time Patrick was ministering in Ireland, a metropolitan was given responsibility over the churches in China? Who evangelised China BoL?
 

Mungo

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... and lest anyone accuse me of being Anti-Catholic, I'm simply Anti-Cult Mentality for ANY RELIGION.

Define cult.

Here is a definition from an etymology dictionary
Cult. An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree.

In other words by calling something a cult you are just saying you disagree with them.
You are just spouting meaningless verbiage.
 

Brakelite

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Define cult.

Here is a definition from an etymology dictionary
Cult. An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree.

In other words by calling something a cult you are just saying you disagree with them.
You are just spouting meaningless verbiage.
Any evidence for that - or are you just blowing hot air?
Ummm... Who are you talking to?
 

BreadOfLife

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Gian Domenico Mansi was an Italian prelate, theologian, scholar and historian, known for his massive works on the Church councils. In his work Sacrorum Conciliorum Nova et Amplissima Collectio, vol. 23, p. 73. You may read the following...
“He went to Rome to have [ecclesiastical] orders given him; and Caelestinus, abbot of Rome, he it is that read orders over him, Gemanus and Amatho, king of the Romans, being present with them. .. And when the orders were a reading out, the three choirs mutually responded, namely the choir of the household of heaven, and the choir of the Romans, and the choir of the children from the wood of Fochlad. This is what all sang: ‘All we Irish beseech thee, holy Patrick, to come and walk among us and to free us.’”
So the choirs of heaven BoL are Irish?
The were two Patricks it seems... One real and one fictitious. One legend has the fictitious Patrick doing the following... in order to provide passage for a leper when there was no place on the boat, threw his portable stone altar into the sea. The stone did not go to the bottom, nor was it outdistanced by the boat, but it floated around the boat with the leper on it until it reached Ireland.
Another myth went like this... “Sleep came over the inhabitants of Rome, so that Patrick brought away as much as he wanted of the relics. Afterward those relics were taken to Armagh by the counsel of God and the counsel of the men of Ireland. What was brought then was three hundred and threescore and five relics, together with the relics of Paul and Peter and Lawrence and Stephen, and many others. And a sheet was there with Christ’s blood [thereon] and with the hair of Mary the Virgin." These, and others, are the only evidence Patrick was ever in Rome. Apart from the odd narrative 5 or6 hundred years later... Authors as gullible as you it seems. Why did not Patrick himself every mention a visit to Rome and the approval of the auspicious, or should that be suspicious, Celestine? Not even the church itself had any official records of ever having anything whatsoever to do with Patrick. Did you know Patrick's grandfather was a presbyter? What Rome would have termed bishop? What Catholic missionaries went to Britain 100 or more years at least before Patrick to establish the Celtic church?
Did you know that at the same time Patrick was ministering in Ireland, a metropolitan was given responsibility over the churches in China? Who evangelised China BoL?
Ummmmm are YOU telling me that you can't discern between allegorical language and literal language??
What is written here about "three choirs" singing in unison - One from Heaven, One from Rome and One from Ireland is ALLEGORICAL.

There were no "choirs from Heaven or Rome or Ireland there when Patrick got his orders to go to Ireland.
There aren't "TWO" Patricks. There's just YOU who doesn't understand how to read . . .
 
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Illuminator

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If the SDA CULT spent their resources feeding hungry people as they do bashing Catholicism, they might not have so much trouble retaining their members.
 
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BreadOfLife

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If the SDA CULT spent their resources feeding hungry people as they do bashing Catholicism, they might not have so much trouble retaining their members.
Yup.
The Catholic Church is the LARGEST charitable organization in the WORLD.

- Every day, the Catholic Church feeds, clothes, shelters and educates more people than ANY organization on the planet.

- Charities run by the Church include 5,305 hospitals including 1694 in the Americas and 1,150 in Africa.
- The Church also has
18,179 clinics including 5,762 in the Americas and 5,312 in Africa 3,884 in Asia.
- It also manages
17,223 homes for old people, the terminally ill and the handicapped – most of them (8,021) in Europe and the Americas (5,650).
- It also runs 9,882 orphanages – a third of them in Asia.

NO other church or secular organization even comes CLOSE.

The SDA sect should strive to do a FRACTION of what the Catholic Church does for the poor, handicapped and otherwise needy - as Christ commanded (Matt. 25:35, Luke 3:11, Luke 12:33-34, Luke 14:12-14).

If they did - they might not have time for their hateful campaigns . . .
 
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marksman

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Acts 1 v 15-26 is a very interesting passage of scripture regarding the NTC. With Judas having departed the scene for some reason they felt compelled to replace him to make their number up to 12 again. They wanted a replacement of someone who had been a witness from his baptism to his to resurrection. Why was this? In Jewish culture, an eyewitness had a lot of credibility. Therefore if the other 11 had witnessed all this then the one being added had to be a witness as well.

It may subconsciously be tied into one person for each tribe bearing in mind that the Jews were very tribal and if one or more tribes were to be represented then all of them were to be represented. At the same time, it states that 120 was in the upper room as this was taking place. Significant? Because the history of the Jews was important to the Jews, according to a Jewish tradition, 120 Elders passed on the Law in the time of Ezra.

This is noteworthy inasmuch they did not choose someone from outside of the inner circle. A good enough reason not to choose leaders of the church from outside the inner circle. They decided on two of their number (120). A MAN called Joseph and a Matthias. How are they going to decide on which one?

First of all, they prayed. " Show us which one of the two you have chosen." In other words, they were not going to make the decision themselves, they were going to rely on God to do it for them.

But here is the surprise. They held a lottery. If God was going to show them, why did they need to hold a lottery? One might say that it is not a very biblical or spiritual way to decide on someone that God is choosing. Except that using a lot was common to Jewish life in deciding things. They could do this because they believed in God's sovereignty so even if they cast a lot the right person will be chosen.

Obviously Matthias gained more votes than Joseph so those present would see that as God answering their prayer and showing them which of the two was his choice. They did not see it as them making the choice of a replacement.

If a church wanted to replace a leader it could do no worse than call for expressions of interest from the congregation. If there was more than one it would be simple enough to pray and ask God to choose the right one for them and then hold a lottery and the candidate with the most votes would be God's choice.

NO? How do you know unless you have tried it?
 

marksman

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THE DAY OF PENTECOST.

I have said many times that the NTC was birthed in prayer and power. Booth of these things are generally absent from the church today. We give them token ascent but not a complete commitment to them. I did an assessment of the local church once going by what they advertised in the local paper. Not one spoke of prayer or the power of prayer, apart from 30 minutes here or there.

In acts 2 v 1 it says that they were all with one accord in one place. That is the NKJV. Others say they were together. In actual fact, in the Greek, it says they were together together. Not only were they together physically. They were together mentally, spiritually, and in purpose. I guess one could say they were united. Being together in a church building does not always mean that the people are together beyond physically.

There is no doubt that the church could do with a big dose of togetherness, and not only physically. As they say, are we all on the same page?
Most people attend a church that suits them. They like the music. They like the activities. They like the preaching and so on. But how many are there because they want to unite with others to advance the Kingdom of God. Judging by how little the congregation is involved I would say not many. That may not necessarily be the congregation's fault. It may be the case that the leader only wants people who will support his ministry.

Reading the Acts I get the impression that the NTC was a doing church. They met daily for meals which was good for the poor and slaves who very often had little to give and little to eat. And they shared their possessions. Can you imagine it? " Hello, Joseph. I see you don't have a donkey to ride on. We have got a spare one so we will give it to you." Today exchange car for donkey.

And to correct an incorrect interpretation. There was no wind in the house. The sound that came from heaven was LIKE a wind. There was no fire in the house. What appeared was something that looked LIKE fire. But what was real was the visitation of the Holy Spirit. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit (after conversion). How did they know this WAS happening? They spoke with other tongues as the Spirit gave them the ability to do so.
The tongues referred to here were foreign languages which they had not learned to speak.
 

marksman

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The speaking in tongues was another characteristic of the new church. it was totally and completely supernatural. There was nothing of man in it. And how do we know they were speaking in literal languages? Simple.

Act 2:6 But this sound occurring, the multitude came together and were confounded, because they each heard them speaking in his own dialect. The Greek word is dialectos which means language.

What made it even more miraculous was this comment in Acts 2:7 And all were amazed and marveled, saying to one another, Behold, are not all these, those speaking, Galileans? If you came from Galilee generally you were a person who was involved in manual labor. You did not go to an educational institution to be educated in the finer arts. You certainly did learn a second language.

Here is a list of people who heard what was being said in their own native language. Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamians, Judeans, Cappadocians, Pontus, Asians, Phrygians, Pamphylians, Egyptians, Libyans, Cyrene's, temporarily residing Romans, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans, Arabians. That is 16 different languages. Spoken by 12 people. if that ain't God I don't know what is.

And here is the next miracle. Acts 2:14 But standing up with the Eleven, Peter lifted up his voice and spoke out to them, Men, Jews, and all those living in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen to my words:

Crunch time. Peter stood up with the eleven...and Peter spoke. Not the eleven with him...Peter. He was given the job by God to speak so that people who had among them 16 different languages could hear and understand. Have you asked yourself how he accomplished that? I have.

Bearing in mind that Peter was a Galilean and not educated the only way that he could have done this is to speak the message in each language one by one. But that was not possible as it would have taken ages. The other alternative and which I go for is that Peter spoke in his own dialect and the Holy Spirit became the interpreter for him. A bit like in the UN when someone speaks in their own language each person present has an earphone and someone is interpreting what is being said in their own language. The Holy Spirit was interpreting for Peter.

Another miracle.

So, we have an introduction of prayer, power, and miracles. Wouldn't you like to start a church that way? I know I would.
 

Mungo

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The speaking in tongues was another characteristic of the new church. it was totally and completely supernatural. There was nothing of man in it. And how do we know they were speaking in literal languages? Simple.

Act 2:6 But this sound occurring, the multitude came together and were confounded, because they each heard them speaking in his own dialect. The Greek word is dialectos which means language.

What made it even more miraculous was this comment in Acts 2:7 And all were amazed and marveled, saying to one another, Behold, are not all these, those speaking, Galileans? If you came from Galilee generally you were a person who was involved in manual labor. You did not go to an educational institution to be educated in the finer arts. You certainly did learn a second language.

Here is a list of people who heard what was being said in their own native language. Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamians, Judeans, Cappadocians, Pontus, Asians, Phrygians, Pamphylians, Egyptians, Libyans, Cyrene's, temporarily residing Romans, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans, Arabians. That is 16 different languages. Spoken by 12 people. if that ain't God I don't know what is.

And here is the next miracle. Acts 2:14 But standing up with the Eleven, Peter lifted up his voice and spoke out to them, Men, Jews, and all those living in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen to my words:

Crunch time. Peter stood up with the eleven...and Peter spoke. Not the eleven with him...Peter. He was given the job by God to speak so that people who had among them 16 different languages could hear and understand. Have you asked yourself how he accomplished that? I have.

Bearing in mind that Peter was a Galilean and not educated the only way that he could have done this is to speak the message in each language one by one. But that was not possible as it would have taken ages. The other alternative and which I go for is that Peter spoke in his own dialect and the Holy Spirit became the interpreter for him. A bit like in the UN when someone speaks in their own language each person present has an earphone and someone is interpreting what is being said in their own language. The Holy Spirit was interpreting for Peter.

Another miracle.

So, we have an introduction of prayer, power, and miracles. Wouldn't you like to start a church that way? I know I would.

Just a thought:
The quote you gave (Acts 2:6) doesn't say that the apostles spoke in different languages.
It says those listening heard them speak in their own language.

As you say - it could be that the Holy Spirit interpreted Peter to each person so that they heard in their own language. But if that was so for Peter why was it not so for verse 6?
 

BreadOfLife

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Acts 1 v 15-26 is a very interesting passage of scripture regarding the NTC. With Judas having departed the scene for some reason they felt compelled to replace him to make their number up to 12 again. They wanted a replacement of someone who had been a witness from his baptism to his to resurrection. Why was this? In Jewish culture, an eyewitness had a lot of credibility. Therefore if the other 11 had witnessed all this then the one being added had to be a witness as well.

It may subconsciously be tied into one person for each tribe bearing in mind that the Jews were very tribal and if one or more tribes were to be represented then all of them were to be represented. At the same time, it states that 120 was in the upper room as this was taking place. Significant? Because the history of the Jews was important to the Jews, according to a Jewish tradition, 120 Elders passed on the Law in the time of Ezra.

This is noteworthy inasmuch they did not choose someone from outside of the inner circle. A good enough reason not to choose leaders of the church from outside the inner circle. They decided on two of their number (120). A MAN called Joseph and a Matthias. How are they going to decide on which one?

First of all, they prayed. " Show us which one of the two you have chosen." In other words, they were not going to make the decision themselves, they were going to rely on God to do it for them.

But here is the surprise. They held a lottery. If God was going to show them, why did they need to hold a lottery? One might say that it is not a very biblical or spiritual way to decide on someone that God is choosing. Except that using a lot was common to Jewish life in deciding things. They could do this because they believed in God's sovereignty so even if they cast a lot the right person will be chosen.

Obviously Matthias gained more votes than Joseph so those present would see that as God answering their prayer and showing them which of the two was his choice. They did not see it as them making the choice of a replacement.

If a church wanted to replace a leader it could do no worse than call for expressions of interest from the congregation. If there was more than one it would be simple enough to pray and ask God to choose the right one for them and then hold a lottery and the candidate with the most votes would be God's choice.

NO? How do you know unless you have tried it?
The Church ALREADY does this when a new successor to Peter's office (Pope) is chosen.
It's called a "Conclave".

Glad you brought up the significance of the numbers 12 and 120.
12 Tribes of Israel - 12 Apostles.
120 priests at the dedication at the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) - 120 priests at Pentecost (Acts 1:15):

OT - On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the Covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

Scriptural fulfillment is a beautiful thing . . .
 
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