Would You Still...

[bbyrd009]

I believe if you don't love God but you try to live a life of righteousness, that's a deception.

then how do you handle "don't be deceived, little children?"

 

[brakelite]

! @brakelite comes to mind, the "pls resolve these" thing.

Bro, no need for any apology whatsoever. I do not mind being asked to 'resolve' issues. Some questions I can't answer, even with regards my own belief regarding a trinity. But what I cannot do, because I only stick to what I understand as being plainly written in the word, is that I can't call what I believe, a 'mystery'. To me the fact that God has a Son is not a mystery. Sure, there are some questions regarding that we do not know for now, but at least we can be completely comfortable in proclaiming this as Truth. Also, what I believe we can be completely comfortable with is that the holy Spirit is in some way, a third person...however, I do not believe a person in the same way we accept the Father and Son. For several reasons. What I do not feel comfortable with as far as the trinity is concerned is how the church has managed to create an absolute article of faith (creedal) regarding the nature of the composition of the Godhead, and filed those who don't completely accept that creed under the heading 'heretic'.

 

[bbyrd009]

If a love for righteousness is not born in oneself, all is self deception.

also, seems really weird, but this love is borne out of unrighteousness, not righteousness, right? We learn righteousness mostly by witnessing or experiencing unrighteousness.

 

[brakelite]

also, seems really weird, but this love is borne out of unrighteousness, not righteousness, right? We learn righteousness mostly by witnessing or experiencing unrighteousness.

Not sure I can agree with that tbh. (Ha! Gotcha back lol). Anyway, I think it is our own unrighteousness that we need to be made aware of...that comes to the fore when we witness and experience the righteousness of Christ. by comparison, we see ourselves as, well, worms.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

then how do you handle "don't be deceived, little children?"

"Don't be deceived, little children", is scripture right meaning this is God speaking to us. So taking this scripture in the context that it's written, what is God saying? If you love God whatever he is telling us in this scripture we listen and put into practice because we have faith that he loves us and will always tell us to do whatever is in our best interests or he will always tell us what isn't in our best interests. Putting scripture into practice is showing our love for God and also our faith in that God knows best.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not sure I can agree with that tbh. (Ha! Gotcha back lol). Anyway, I think it is our own unrighteousness that we need to be made aware of...that comes to the fore when we witness and experience the righteousness of Christ.

sin abounds, that grace may abound the more

by comparison, we see ourselves as, well, worms.

well some of us do i guess, yes, but i'm pretty sure that is being misunderstood too, and we are mostly reinforcing a false perception there imo. Yes, we see ourselves that way, bc we are blind tho imo

 

[bbyrd009]

If you love God whatever he is telling us in this scripture we listen and put into practice

Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous,

I believe if you don't love God but you try to live a life of righteousness, that's a deception.

so see my reservation here if you will Barney

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous,
so see my reservation here if you will Barney

My reservation is that too many people ignore scripture, meaning the way people reason on the scriptures they are actually ignoring scripture and living by their own righteousness although they think they are living by God word. I believe this scripture you're quoting which is 1John 3:7 is simply saying that those who are keeping theselves in God righteousness (What God says is right or wrong in his word the Bible) are considered righteous in God eyes. We are not to let ourselves to be led astray by someone who is trying to live by their own righteousness, even though they may believe they are keeping themselves in scripture. This is why we must study the scriptures so we will know God standard of what is right or wrong.(God Righteousness) Those who are truly keeping themselves in God righteousness are indeed righteous in God eyes.

 

[bbyrd009]

My reservation is that too many people ignore scripture, meaning the way people reason on the scriptures they are actually ignoring scripture and living by their own righteousness although they think they are living by God word. I believe this scripture you're quoting which is 1John 3:7 is simply saying that those who are keeping theselves in God righteousness (What God says is right or wrong in his word the Bible) are considered righteous in God eyes. We are not to let ourselves to be led astray by someone who is trying to live by their own righteousness, even though they may believe they are keeping themselves in scripture. This is why we must study the scriptures so we will know God standard of what is right or wrong.(God Righteousness) Those who are truly keeping themselves in God righteousness are indeed righteous in God eyes.

"Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."

well fortunately we have other vv that dispute that as well, the one about "those who have the Book" contrasted with those who do not, who are still doing better than those with the Book? It'll come to me. The gist being that you are referring to believers, right, @ "although they think they are living by God word," whereas no such distinction is made in Scripture. "...many will come from east and west" is another reflection of this concept.

The righteous are those who do the right thing, regardless of how they label themselves iow.

 

[aspen]

...Love God even if there were no eternal life/heaven? I think of that often and would like to think I would still follow His precepts and His law to Agape others. After all-we are still blessed by him-most in the "free world" always have food, shelter and so on.
Would this ever change your Love for God? For myself, I can talk tough and say stuff like "Though He Slay me, I will trust Him" But...I do not think I even know my own heart enough to make such a decision like that. As of today? I would say yes, I would still love God. But would I really? How do you stop loving? Or, if you knew you were going to "hell", -- same question.
thanks and Bless you,
-nancy

Yes i would. He has enriched my life on Earth and the lives of billions of people. I believe Hell is a place where people continue to live unredeemed and completely alone. We are sanctified for Hell (without Christ) on Earth and it just continues into eternity. Loving God and being sanctified for Hell doesn’t fit together so if I was going to Hell, i would not be capable of loving God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

"Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."

well fortunately we have other vv that dispute that as well, the one about "those who have the Book" contrasted with those who do not, who are still doing better than those with the Book? It'll come to me. The gist being that you are referring to believers, right, @ "although they think they are living by God word," whereas no such distinction is made in Scripture. "...many will come from east and west" is another reflection of this concept.

The righteous are those who do the right thing, regardless of how they label themselves iow.

I believe the righteous are those who do the right thing in keeping with scripture.
The Pharisees who focused on the oral law which they said Moses past down, which isn't true. Moses past down the law covenant, which included the ten commandments. The oral law the Pharisees we're speaking of we're simply commands of men. The Pharisees focused on these oral laws to the point that they made God law therefore God righteousness ( God standard of right and wrong) which is in scripture to be invalid. You see how these people were living by their own righteousness, because they ignored scripture and focused on commands of men which they actually thought to be scripture. I honestly think most people who believe they are doing the right thing are also ignoring scripture therefore they are living by their own righteousness. I'm not saying these people are labelling themselves, although some do. I'm saying that most people in general population of mankind do what they think is right but not according to God righteousness which is in scripture. I honestly think most religious leaders live by their own righteousness but think they are in keeping with the scriptures but are not.

 

[bbyrd009]

imo many pastors likely know the truth but could not tell it anyway. If you went to your pastor and said "pastor, i'm starting to believe everything i know is wrong, and Jesus didn't die for my sins at all, at least in the way i've been understanding it" i doubt he would even blink, before explaining the various reasons why he cannot ever say that in open cong

 

[Frank Lee]

There are some questions that make no sense to me. There are too many actual battles for me too be concerned with what ifs.

We live in life as He made it. I find no value in asking questions about unreal circumstances. Jmjo

 

[quietthinker]

imo many pastors likely know the truth but could not tell it anyway. If you went to your pastor and said "pastor, i'm starting to believe everything i know is wrong, and Jesus didn't die for my sins at all, at least in the way i've been understanding it" i doubt he would even blink, before explaining the various reasons why he cannot ever say that in open cong

It is the foolishness of the Gospel to the wisdom of man that God uses to save those who believe. Any minister/pastor who has lost this perspective is doing the Babylonian shuffle and is not worthy of being a leader.

 

[Taken]

...Love God even if there were no eternal life/heaven? I think of that often and would like to think I would still follow His precepts and His law to Agape others. After all-we are still blessed by him-most in the "free world" always have food, shelter and so on.
Would this ever change your Love for God? For myself, I can talk tough and say stuff like "Though He Slay me, I will trust Him" But...I do not think I even know my own heart enough to make such a decision like that. As of today? I would say yes, I would still love God. But would I really? How do you stop loving? Or, if you knew you were going to "hell", -- same question.
thanks and Bless you,
-nancy

Love God without His giving everlasting life?

Yes. All my trip-ups and consequences are because of me and other men.

All my many Blessings are Because of Him, which contends me.

Love God without His giving my soul an Offering to Avoid Hell?

Yes. And I surely would hope it was a trip, IN THE SAME MANNER as Abraham experienced...on the comfort/Paradise/Tree of Life side.

Inanutshell...I can not fathom my Love for God diminishing.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Phoneman777]

@bbyrd009 the kingdom of heaven is indeed within us, through the importation of the word by the Spirit. But don't spiritualise everything in scripture. That is gnosticism, which in some ways was incorporated into Catholicism, who do not believe in literal resurrection, but some floating supernatural existence "out there" somewhere.
The apostles were not lying when they testified to seeing Jesus ascend into heaven, nor when they testified to seeing Elijah and Moses talking with Jesus on the mount. The book of revelation reveals the throne room of the Father, and His Son beside Him. The book of Hebrews describe Christ's ministry as our high priest there. The Bible also describes in great detail the destruction and death of everything on the planet when Jesus comes, the gathering of the harvest to be united forever with God, leaving the earth void of all life until the creation of the new heavens and the new earth. During that time the redeemed shall be in their temporary homes in the new Jerusalem, and at the end of the millennium will descend with the city onto the new earth.
The meek shall indeed finally inherit the earth. But the condition of the earth before it's recreation will be reduced first to that which it was before Genesis. Empty, lifeless, dark. Abyss.
When Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us, he wasn't kidding.

Popular eschatological interpretations always have activity on the earth and cannot account for the numerous verses like those in Isaiah 24 and Jeremiah 25 which clearly describe a period of total desolation of Earth to come.

 

[Nancy]

Love God without His giving everlasting life?

Yes. All my trip-ups and consequences are because of me and other men.

All my many Blessings are Because of Him, which contends me.

Love God without His giving my soul an Offering to Avoid Hell?

Yes. And I surely would hope it was a trip, IN THE SAME MANNER as Abraham experienced...on the comfort/Paradise/Tree of Life side.

Inanutshell...I can not fathom my Love for God diminishing.

God Bless,
Taken

Awesome ♥

 

[bbyrd009]

It is the foolishness of the Gospel to the wisdom of man that God uses to save those who believe. Any minister/pastor who has lost this perspective is doing the Babylonian shuffle and is not worthy of being a leader.

i'd like to agree with you but i witness a pretty standard bell-curve there too. Someone ordained them anyway, right? So, in my experience at least, my informal polling, if they recognize that they cannot Quote Paul saying "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" or some other basic test then you most likely have a pastor who has maybe even changed his mind since he joined the "ministry," and realized a frontal assault with the truth does not help anyone maybe? Granted this is maybe more like an Indy pastor or something

 

[bbyrd009]

Popular eschatological interpretations always have activity on the earth and cannot account for the numerous verses like those in Isaiah 24 and Jeremiah 25 which clearly describe a period of total desolation of Earth to come.

from a certain perspective anyway, ya

14They raise their voices, they sing out; they proclaim in the west the majesty of the LORD.
15Therefore, in the east honor the LORD!...
16From the ends of the earth we hear songs: The Splendor of the Righteous One. But I said, "I waste away! I waste away! Woe is me." The treacherous act treacherously; the treacherous deal very treacherously.
17Panic, pit, and trap await you who dwell on the earth.

 

[brakelite]

sin abounds, that grace may abound the more

careful my friend... The way you have worded that suggests that sin is rampant in order for grace to be revealed. While there is ina certain sense that the extent of God grace was not known, the is a more primary reason for God allowing sin to continue so dreadfully, but though not methinks just to show more grace. Although it does. IYGWIM

well some of us do i guess, yes, but i'm pretty sure that is being misunderstood too, and we are mostly reinforcing a false perception there imo. Yes, we see ourselves that way, bc we are blind tho imo

I think it is healthy to always keep in mind the vast difference between God and man. Though we are graciously adopted as children and become heirs of a King, we must always be reminded from whence we came. I agree that those in Christ may not now be worms, and that the love of God constrains even the lowest of sinners of thinking too deeply least he despair completely without hope, keep in mind what happens to those who enter the presence of God unprepared. Sizzle Fitz.