Would You Still...

[Helen]

@bbyrd009

I just came back from an appointment and read ALL the posts you put up here this morning....
I appreciate every one of them... great insight...THANK YOU.
Didn't somebody say something like- " It is us who deceive ourselves."

We don't need someone else deceiving us..we do a pretty good job of it for ourself. I guess our deception come from laziness.
We take the accepted 'norm' without weighing it, to see if it be the whole truth or not.
Those posts today show why you say some of the things you say.
You challenge our lazy thinking.

Thank you.

 

[bbyrd009]

Excellent post. And well said. Now I understand why you 'jump on it'.

I can't say I will always remember when posting...it is just a bad habit that "WE" all do!

it is a way to reassure oneself of a lie imo, when used that way

 

[Nancy]

If I were an unbeliever, I would think whats in it for me if I were to convert. What do I gain from your God if I were to convert other than avoiding hell? What would you say to someone filthy rich, who can afford to buy an entire city or island if given the chance? In fact, never mind the obscene material gain he himself promised for his saints on the new earth. Am I promised a roof over my head, clothes and shoes to wear, and food to eat? Can your God promise the basic essentials to survive in the world he created and WILL create in the future?

And in this promised land, can a man put in the work, and it actually pay off like it would in a true free market system, without any descrimination, ethnic or otherwise, that his prophet Isaiah proposed in chapter 65 ( I recall)? Right now, no such system exists except in the minds of the delusional. Screw all that touchy feely crap about "love". The ideal world proposed by Jesus is not the real world we live in, thats just fact.

You have missed the whole essence of my post. This is NOT something that is truth...I was wondering if those who "profess" that they love God...would still love Him is there were no heaven or Hell. IOW-do YOU love God only for what YOU can get out of it?? Like I said in one of my posts, God would still have the attributes/characteristics of Himself, and we would be blessed beyond measure (IMO-we are now!) If you do not like these types of posts, you are welcome to bypass...and this was uncalled for : "except in the minds of the delusional. Screw all that touchy feely crap about "love". BTW- God IS love :/

 

[Helen]

You have missed the whole essence of my post. This is NOT something that is truth...I was wondering if those who "profess" that they love God...would still love Him is there were no heaven or Hell. IOW-do YOU love God only for what YOU can get out of it?? Like I said in one of my posts, God would still have the attributes/characteristics of Himself, and we would be blessed beyond measure (IMO-we are now!) If you do not like these types of posts, you are welcome to bypass...and this was uncalled for : "except in the minds of the delusional. Screw all that touchy feely crap about "love". BTW- God IS love :/

That post reminds me of the words that satan spoke to God about Job.

" Does Job love God for naught.."

Then God allowed him to test Job to find out.

That phrase is something I often use on my husband. When he gets bent out of shape about something, or annoyed that God didn't do something how Dave thought God should.
I say:- "Yes, but do we love God for nothing, just for HIM..or ..for what He does for us?"
God wants a people who want HIM...not for what He provides.

Which goes along with the saying- " They only followed Jesus for the loaves and fishes...and not to just hear His words.."

 

[Nancy]

That post reminds me of the words that satan spoke to God about Job.

" Does Job love God for naught.."

Then God allowed him to test Job to find out.

That phrase is something I often use on my husband. When he gets bent out of shape about something, or annoyed that God didn't do something how Dave thought God should.
I say:- "Yes, but do we love God for nothing, just for HIM..or ..for what He does for us?"
God wants a people who want HIM...not for what He provides.

Which goes along with the saying- " They only followed Jesus for the loaves and fishes...and not to just hear His words.."

"Thou He slay me" ♥

 

[brakelite]

you are supposed to die at baptism right, making the second death irrelevant to you

And every day after that.....

 

[Dcopymope]

You have missed the whole essence of my post. This is NOT something that is truth...I was wondering if those who "profess" that they love God...would still love Him is there were no heaven or Hell. IOW-do YOU love God only for what YOU can get out of it?? Like I said in one of my posts, God would still have the attributes/characteristics of Himself, and we would be blessed beyond measure (IMO-we are now!) If you do not like these types of posts, you are welcome to bypass...and this was uncalled for : "except in the minds of the delusional. Screw all that touchy feely crap about "love". BTW- God IS love :/

Ok, so I see the essence of your question is basically would I love God without heaven & hell being a factor. Well, heaven isn't even a factor NOW, nor will it be in the future, and if you are saved, neither is hell for that matter. I've pointed this out in scripture over and over again that heaven will not be our final destination when its all said and done, but the scriptures plainly describing this to be the case gets conveniently glossed over, repeatedly. So really, I'm not looking forward to going to heaven, because its irrelevant anyway. I honestly could care less about heaven. Its not my final destination, its not Jesus Christs final destination, nor will it be even for the Father himself. I repeated myself yet again, except this time, I won't even bother citing the scriptures backing it up. I'm done wasting my time and energy, people will believe what they want to believe. If people need heaven or hell to believe in or love, or accept their creator in their lives, then I highly suggest they get their priorities straight, because its all screwed up, truly.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Yes, that one is food for thought.
In fact that is a good one to "chew over" with my hubby. ( we do a lot of chewing lol )
I am asking myself why this carcass needs to become immortal??!!
Do we need it after now?
our mortal bodies are inhabited by immortal souls...I thought we just shook it off as a dead skin and took on the new.[/QUOT

The Bible nowhere says our mortal bodies are inhabited by immortal souls. The Bible does tell us that those who are to be in heaven, when they are resurrected are given immortal bodies. What that means is they are changed from being mortal persons into immortal persons. The fact that the Bible shows us that is proof that we humans are mortal beings.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Bible does tell us that those who are to be in heaven, when they are resurrected are given immortal bodies. What that means is they are changed from being mortal persons into immortal persons.

BB, how ya been? I would keep an open mind here, imo Scripture is not saying what you are assuming there, although It does seem to huh. Note that you cannot Quote "those who are to be in heaven, when they are resurrected are given immortal bodies."

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

BB, how ya been? I would keep an open mind here, imo Scripture is not saying what you are assuming there, although It does seem to huh. Note that you cannot Quote "those who are to be in heaven, when they are resurrected are given immortal bodies."

I'm not assuming anything, it tells us in the scriptures that those who will be resurrected to heaven to be with Jesus will get a resurrection like Jesus who when he was resurrected was given immortality and inherited incorruption.

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm not assuming anything, it tells us in the scriptures that those who will be resurrected to heaven to be with Jesus will get a resurrection like Jesus who when he was resurrected was given immortality and inherited incorruption.

"inherited incorruption?" Christ? hmm, i dunno, have to think on that one, doesn't strike me right
this is a Being that you are likely insisting is God in other forums, isn't it?

anyway, you can believe that Scripture tells "us" that if you like B, i thot so myself for...a long time, 30-40 years

You will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up
tho; and
No one has ever gone up to heaven except He Who came down from it,
plus several others, ok?
all go to the same place
you and your sons will be here with me
God is the only Immortal
etc

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

"inherited incorruption?" Christ? hmm, i dunno, have to think on that one, doesn't strike me right
this is a Being that you are likely insisting is God in other forums, isn't it?

anyway, you can believe that Scripture tells "us" that if you like B, i thot so myself for...a long time, 30-40 years

You will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up
tho; and
No one has ever gone up to heaven except He Who came down from it,
plus several others, ok?
all go to the same place
you and your sons will be here with me
God is the only Immortal
etc

I believe Jesus to be The Only-Be gotten Son of God, not God. 1Corinthians 15:23-28; 1Corinthians 15:42-54 talk about God making all things subject to Jesus his Son. It even tells you in these scriptures that God made Death subject to his Son so that he dies no more. In other words it's impossible for Jesus to die after God made Death subject to his Son . Immortality basically means deathlessness . How can Jesus be God when at one time Jesus was subject to Death. God has never been subject to Death, death has always been subject to God. Read those scriptures in 1Corinthians 15.

 

[brakelite]

Did Good send a Son to become man, or did He send something/someone else to become a man, or was the baby born in Bethlehem the beginning of the Father Son relationship between God and Jesus?
I suggest that God, as per many scriptures eg John3:16, that God sent His already begotten Son to become a man. "A body hast thou prepared for me". Now if this is true surely any Son, but in particular a perfect Son, a perfect representation of the Father who begat him? And therefore God?

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe Jesus to be The Only-Be gotten Son of God, not God. 1Corinthians 15:23-28; 1Corinthians 15:42-54 talk about God making all things subject to Jesus his Son. It even tells you in these scriptures that God made Death subject to his Son so that he dies no more. In other words it's impossible for Jesus to die after God made Death subject to his Son . Immortality basically means deathlessness . How can Jesus be God when at one time Jesus was subject to Death. God has never been subject to Death, death has always been subject to God. Read those scriptures in 1Corinthians 15.

not completely disagreeing--those are great vv, even if i interpret them diff--but i have some reservations with this Barney, mostly with the...dichotomous perception of...Jesus, Who after all came to present a Dichotomy i guess, so i dunno if/how i might even get to the point there lol, i'd have to think on it. Or rather stop thinking on it lol, but nevermind that part. so maybe i'll be back.

For the first sentence i'd check out the refs to "sons of God" starting at the Luke one, http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=sons+of+God, and maybe another perspective will present itself. Ah, brakelites

and, if the only diff in your opinion is "only begotten," i might suggest some illustrations that reveal the imo wordplay going on

 

[bbyrd009]

it's impossible for Jesus to die

Jesus was subject to Death.

might serve. If you could post your resolution to these, rephrased--the ones i stripped out iow--i might get closer to understanding you there

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

might serve. If you could post your resolution to these, rephrased--the ones i stripped out iow--i might get closer to understanding you there

If you are going to quote me, do it accurate. I said it was impossible for Jesus to die after God made Death subject to Jesus, before death was made subject to Jesus he could die, Jesus was mortal. After Jesus was resurrected from death he was given immortality meaning Jesus could die no more. In other words instead of Jesus being subject to Death, death was made subject to Jesus after his resurrection from death, and Jesus also inherited incorruption after his resurrection from death. This shows me that before God Only-Begotten Son came to us as a human he was mortal not I'm mortal, Jesus was given immortality and he inherited incorruption after his resurrection from death not before. God has always been immortal.

 

[quietthinker]

...Love God even if there were no eternal life/heaven? I think of that often and would like to think I would still follow His precepts and His law to Agape others. After all-we are still blessed by him-most in the "free world" always have food, shelter and so on.
Would this ever change your Love for God? For myself, I can talk tough and say stuff like "Though He Slay me, I will trust Him" But...I do not think I even know my own heart enough to make such a decision like that. As of today? I would say yes, I would still love God. But would I really? How do you stop loving? Or, if you knew you were going to "hell", -- same question.
thanks and Bless you,
-nancy

If a love for righteousness is not born in oneself, all is self deception.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

If a love for righteousness is not born in oneself, all is self deception.[/QUOTE\]

Although I know God is righteous, I believe if you don't love God but you try to live a life of righteousness, that's a deception.

 

[bbyrd009]

If you are going to quote me, do it accurate.

ah, my apologies, i did not mean to misrep you there, but to get another perspective on the difference in your opinion. Guess i owe some other ppl apologies too! @brakelite comes to mind, the "pls resolve these" thing. I'm really wanting to be taken at face value there iow Barney, sorry. Guess i'll have to devise a better setup for that or something

I said it was impossible for Jesus to die after God made Death subject to Jesus, before death was made subject to Jesus he could die, Jesus was mortal. After Jesus was resurrected from death he was given immortality meaning Jesus could die no more. In other words instead of Jesus being subject to Death, death was made subject to Jesus after his resurrection from death, and Jesus also inherited incorruption after his resurrection from death. This shows me that before God Only-Begotten Son came to us as a human he was mortal not I'm mortal, Jesus was given immortality and he inherited incorruption after his resurrection from death not before. God has always been immortal.

this clarifies things quite a bit though, ty

 

[bbyrd009]

If a love for righteousness is not born in oneself, all is self deception.

word

one can even reflect on the actual meaning and intent of
the flesh profits nothing
versus the way many ppl use it, wherein Scripture is even going to some lengths to make it obvious that there is another way to read that phrase for more on the self-deception imo. Bc of course the flesh is ezackly what profits right, even if it can be argued that the spirit profits more or whatever. And there is a concurrent counter-argument that the flesh suffers some, too. Which might seem to pretty much moot my point here, only the suffering has a way of like dissolving or something, huh