WWJD with LGBTQ?

[The Learner]

Do you see the contradiction?
Did you think the Law of Moses (the Torah) was not given by God?

You said:
"No longer under the Law of Moses, yes.....
... our righteousness must EXCEED that of those under the Law, not be less than theirs."

Not under = EXCEED ???

I think we need to understand this better.
Exceeding doesn't mean MORE legalistic, it means NOT legalistic.


Agree.
You shouldn't talk to anyone like that.
Um... what were you saying?

/

Hebrews 7

Contemporary English Version

​

The Priestly Family of Melchizedek​

7 Melchizedek was both king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He was the one who went out and gave Abraham his blessing, when Abraham returned from killing the kings. 2 Then Abraham gave him a tenth of everything he had.
The meaning of the name Melchizedek is “King of Justice.” But since Salem means “peace,” he is also “King of Peace.” 3 We are not told he had a father or mother or ancestors or beginning or end. He is like the Son of God and will be a priest forever.[a]
4 Notice how great Melchizedek was! Our famous ancestor Abraham gave him a tenth of what he had taken from his enemies. 5 The Law teaches that even Abraham's descendants must give a tenth of what they possess. And they are to give this to their own relatives, who are the descendants of Levi and are priests. 6 Although Melchizedek wasn't a descendant of Levi, Abraham gave him a tenth of what he had. Then Melchizedek blessed Abraham, who had been given God's promise. 7 Everyone agrees a person who gives a blessing is greater than the one who receives the blessing.
8 Priests are given a tenth of what people earn. But all priests die, except Melchizedek, and the Scriptures teach that he is alive. 9 Levi's descendants are now the ones who receive a tenth from people. We could even say that when Abraham gave Melchizedek a tenth, Levi also gave him a tenth. 10 This is because Levi was born later into the family of Abraham, who gave a tenth to Melchizedek.
11 Even though the Law of Moses says the priests must be descendants of Levi, those priests cannot make anyone perfect. So there needs to be a priest like Melchizedek, rather than one from the priestly family of Aaron.[b] 12 And when the rules for selecting a priest are changed, the Law must also be changed.
13 The person we are talking about is our Lord, who came from a tribe that had never had anyone to serve as a priest at the altar. 14 Everyone knows he came from the tribe of Judah, and Moses never said priests would come from that tribe.
15 All of this becomes clearer, when someone who is like Melchizedek is appointed to be a priest. 16 That person wasn't appointed because of his ancestors, but because his life can never end. 17 The Scriptures say about him,
“You are a priest forever,
just like Melchizedek.”
18 In this way a weak and useless command was put aside, 19 because the Law cannot make anything perfect. At the same time, we are given a much better hope, and it can bring us close to God.
20-21 God himself made a promise when this priest was appointed. But he did not make a promise like this when the other priests were appointed. The promise he made is,
“I, the Lord, promise that you
will be a priest forever!
And I will never
change my mind!”
22 This means that Jesus guarantees us a better agreement with God. 23 There have been a lot of other priests, and all of them have died. 24 But Jesus will never die, and so he will be a priest forever! 25 He is forever able to save[c] the people he leads to God, because he always lives to speak to God for them.
26 Jesus is the high priest we need. He is holy and innocent and faultless, and not at all like us sinners. Jesus is honored above all beings in heaven, 27 and he is better than any other high priest. Jesus doesn't need to offer sacrifices each day for his own sins and then for the sins of the people. He offered a sacrifice once for all, when he gave himself. 28 The Law appoints priests who have weaknesses. But God's promise, which came later than the Law, appoints his Son. And he is the perfect high priest forever.

 

[The Learner]

Yes.
I believe Matthew chapter five beginning at verse 17 is greatly misunderstood.

Most people claim that the law is not abolished. (by clipping out "or the Prophets")
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.
I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them.[q] - vs 17 NET

Jesus wasn't talking about the laws themselves, but rather the BOOKS of the Law, or the BOOKS of the Prophets.
The fulfillment was of the PROPHECIES about him, not "the law" per se.
Jesus explained this after his resurrection. Here's the scripture.

Luke 24:44 NET
Then[a] he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you,
that everything written about me[b] in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms[c] must be fulfilled.”

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

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Matthew 5

Contemporary English Version

​

The Sermon on the Mount​

5 When Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on the side of a mountain and sat down.[a]

Blessings​

(Luke 6.20-23)​

Jesus' disciples gathered around him, 2 and he taught them:
3 God blesses those people
who depend only on him.
They belong to the kingdom
of heaven![b]
4 God blesses those people
who grieve.
They will find comfort!
5 God blesses those people
who are humble.
The earth will belong
to them!
6 God blesses those people
who want to obey him[c]
more than to eat or drink.
They will be given
what they want!
7 God blesses those people
who are merciful.
They will be treated
with mercy!
8 God blesses those people
whose hearts are pure.
They will see him!
9 God blesses those people
who make peace.
They will be called
his children!
10 God blesses those people
who are treated badly
for doing right.
They belong to the kingdom
of heaven.[d]
11 God will bless you when people insult you, mistreat you, and tell all kinds of evil lies about you because of me. 12 Be happy and excited! You will have a great reward in heaven. People did these same things to the prophets who lived long ago.

Salt and Light​

(Mark 9.50; Luke 14.34,35)​

13 You are the salt for everyone on earth. But if salt no longer tastes like salt, how can it make food salty? All it is good for is to be thrown out and walked on.
14 You are the light for the whole world. A city built on top of a hill cannot be hidden, 15 and no one lights a lamp and puts it under a clay pot. Instead, it is placed on a lampstand, where it can give light to everyone in the house. 16 Make your light shine, so others will see the good you do and will praise your Father in heaven.

The Law of Moses​

17 Don't suppose I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets.[e] I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning. 18 Heaven and earth may disappear. But I promise you not even a period or comma will ever disappear from the Law. Everything written in it must happen.
19 If you reject even the least important command in the Law and teach others to do the same, you will be the least important person in the kingdom of heaven. But if you obey and teach others its commands, you will have an important place in the kingdom. 20 You must obey God's commands better than the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law obey them. If you don't, I promise you will never get into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[The Learner]

Do you know what perverse means? The bible speaks of it a lot in relation to many things. It means distorted, warped, crooked, not plumb with the plumbline. Shouldn't we all endeavour to line up with the plumbline? God's word applies to all sinners equally without discrimination.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=perverse&version=CSB

 

[The Learner]

skipping to end

 

[St. SteVen]

The Law of Moses​

17 Don't suppose I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets.[e]

Have you seen this topic? Link below.
I explain what this means in detail.

Observations about the law,the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

/

 

[JohnDB]

The Babylon Bee

@TheBabylonBee
·
1h
Damning Leak Reveals Matt Walsh Knew What A Woman Was This Whole Time Damning Leak Reveals Matt Walsh Knew What A Woman Was This Whole Time

 

[Aunty Jane]

Maybe we are mischaracterizing God's interpretation of what wrath is. We know what man's wrath is, uncontrollable anger and a desire for retribution. But what is God's wrath?
I think we apply a lot of man's characteristics to God. Instead of man becoming christlike, we expect God to be be manlike.
When I consider the flood or the raining of fire in sodom, I consider the natural world. It's going to do what it does. It is in a decomposing system just as the human body is, and there are always changes taking place.
Perhaps IF the people had been willing to listen, they would of heeded the warning and avoided destruction. Like Noah and like Lot.
You have to be willing to listen to God through all his works, even id they fall in the realm of natural science.
The earth is gonna do what it's gonna do. And today we have some warning systems in place for tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc.
Jesus said you know when the sky is red and lowring a storm is coming... It's a form of God's communication to man.
Watch the signs, both physical and spiritual. And if one isn't listening or watching they get caught in the storm and then blame God for being angry.

I believe it was James and John, the sons of thunder that wanted to bring fire down on a town for not listening, but Jesus rebuked them and said, ye know not what spirit ye are of. I'm still working on that..
So we blame God for acts of God even though he has given us the ability to listen to the signs and prepare. Whether storm or war, or famine..
there are always signs.

So who is at fault? The one providing the signs or the ones not listening and watching?

I believe if God had man's wrath, then man wouldn't exist anymore.

Jesus got angry and ran the money changers out of the temple. In the OT God would of opened the earth and swallowed them up.
Is it just a matter of perception, and who's perception?

Just thinking..
Hugs

Excellent post Ziggy.....you bring out some excellent points.

God tells us what is coming and has demonstrated in his past actions that his anger is justified.....as the Creator, he has jurisdiction over life and death, and no excuses will be entered into evidence for the contrary. As if God is not all seeing and all knowing......do we really want to dictate to him what the sinful flesh demands? There are no valid grounds to question anything the Creator does......his ways are perfect, ours are not.....yet like the Israelites, we want to shake our fist at God and tell him his actions and laws are “not fair”. Who invented justice? Do we know what mercy is? God carries out both in a very balanced way.

The one thing God hates in his servants is hypocrisy....saying one thing, and doing the complete opposite. The Pharisees demonstrated this, by saying that what they taught was from the word of God.....but it was their own twisted interpretation of it. Jesus exposed them for what they were, and instead of it moving them to repent, they doubled down as they always had, by discrediting the prophets God sent and and silencing them. (Matt 23:37-39)

Here we are at the end of this current world system, and all of us alive when the judgment comes, will answer to Jesus as our appointed judge. How did he treat the Pharisees? What did he say about them? And by what standards did he judge them back then?

We will all be judged the same way. Not by how we twisted scripture to justify our beliefs, but how closely we followed Christ’s teachings and let the Bible choose them for us.

 

[Lizbeth]

That saw cuts both ways.
How do you know that you have it right and I have it wrong?
Are your biblical opinions infallible?

/

We know by the Spirit of God within us. But it is certainly true that people can be deceived and that is why we need to watch each other's back, because sometimes we need the help of others in the body of Christ to see what we can't. Isn't it true that often if we have a problem, it may be obvious to others, while we are the last to know? lol.

Here is some truth for any who are willing to be impartial and receive it:


Lev 18:20-29

Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.

And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:

(For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled) ;

That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.

For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

(The land spuing out is to the church a metaphor for being spued out of the body of Christ, His kingdom. Being cut off is talking about death…the wages of sin is death. We do not practice stoning under the new covenant, but it was a metaphor to us for spiritual death.)



Rom 1:24

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;



1Co 6:9-11

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


The good news for the child of God who receives Christ (and receives His word, because He is the living Word) is that we are not obligated to the flesh any longer! We are freed from it! The truth sets us free – if we will only be willing to receive it, and quit wresting and arguing with it.

When I was saved back in the day, I was in a relationship with my then boyfriend and continued in my ignorance to be intimate with him as usual for a little while after coming to Christ, even as I was witnessing to him. But something started to niggle at me….is this ok Lord? But it doesn’t FEEL wrong at all and it’s not like it’s hurting anybody. Then I saw the word fornication in the bible. Oh. Sorry Lord. I received that word and it set me free from fornication and I stopped it. Funny how it was freeing….I was no longer it’s slave, no longer obligated to it. That’s a good thing, not a bad thing at all to no longer be a slave to sin and the flesh.



Rom 8:9-13

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.

And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.

For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

 

[Lizbeth]

Lizbeth, do you ever get inspired?

Yes, sometimes I'm inspired by the Holy Spirit, and other times my flesh may be inspired and I have to tell it off or just ignore it. I've learned by grace to DISCERN between the two over the years. Test everything.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes, sometimes I'm inspired by the Holy Spirit, and other times my flesh may be inspired and I have to tell it off or just ignore it. I've learned by grace to DISCERN between the two over the years. Test everything.

so isn't it possible that the Prophets experienced similar? Jonah was inspired to bolt when God gave him a message. Abraham thought it was God telling him to sacrifice his son.
Inspiration, even by the Sprit of God does not always result in man saying or behaving as he should.....and from that we can learn.

 

[St. SteVen]

We know by the Spirit of God within us. But it is certainly true that people can be deceived and that is why we need to watch each other's back, because sometimes we need the help of others in the body of Christ to see what we can't. Isn't it true that often if we have a problem, it may be obvious to others, while we are the last to know? lol.

Ironically, that's why I am here and what I am doing.
You are promoting tribalism, I am raising a hand to say there is a problem with this.
The church is on a collision course with disaster if we don't figure out the LGBTQ thing.

The church is building walls when it should be building bridges.

Here is some truth for any who are willing to be impartial and receive it:


Lev 18:20-29

Who was this addressed to and why?

(The land spuing out is to the church a metaphor for being spued out of the body of Christ, His kingdom. Being cut off is talking about death…the wages of sin is death. We do not practice stoning under the new covenant, but it was a metaphor to us for spiritual death.)

You're pretty selective about what is literal and what is figurative/metaphorical here.
Why is the abomination literal and the consequence metaphorical?

Additionally, you are making excommunication synonymous with spiritual death?
Does the church have the power to damn a soul?

There are lots of fine Christian believers that have either left the church,
or have been put out that would not appreciate that sentiment.

I'm still in the church. (the institutional church) And active.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

so isn't it possible that the Prophets experienced similar? Jonah was inspired to bolt when God gave him a message. Abraham thought it was God telling him to sacrifice his son.
Inspiration, even by the Sprit of God does not always result in man saying or behaving as he should.....and from that we can learn.

They were inspired to write down things that we are to learn lessons from, sure. But Jonah wasn't written as a lesson to teach that it's a good thing to run away from God, rather the opposite. And just to say, God did tell Abraham to sacrifice Isaac....it was a test. And also as an allegory and foreshadowing of God sacrificing His own Son. If God says all scripture is inspired by Him and profitable to make us wise unto salvation, and to be instructed in righteousness, and reproved, etc, then we need to believe it and stop undermining His word.

 

[Lizbeth]

Ironically, that's why I am here and what I am doing.
You are promoting tribalism, I am raising a hand to say there is a problem with this.
The church is on a collision course with disaster if we don't figure out the LGBTQ thing.

The church is building walls when it should be building bridges.


Who was this addressed to and why?


You're pretty selective about what is literal and what is figurative/metaphorical here.
Why is the abomination literal and the consequence metaphorical?

Additionally, you are making excommunication synonymous with spiritual death?
Does the church have the power to damn a soul?

There are lots of fine Christian believers that have either left the church,
or have been put out that would not appreciate that sentiment.

I'm still in the church. (the institutional church) And active.

/

Abomination is not a good thing, no matter how you look at it. It is sinful and I think we are to get the message that it is at the least not a small sin. You love asking questions while not giving answers. If you believe it's allegorical, then please just state what you believe it's allegorical for.

No I'm not making "excommunication" synonymous with spiritual death. They are two different things. If it becomes necessary due to an unwillingness to turn away from a sin, to put someone out of your fellowship for a while, it is for their sake (and the church's) to try and AVOID spiritual death.

We need to just believe God when He calls something a sin. For one thing He knows us much better than we know ourselves. He knows our crooked paths that we turned aside to in our fall, and why. Whereas we are often unaware of what we have done. Human nature is perverse by nature. Let me give you a humorous example. In the culture and time we are living in, men don't like it when they start to lose their hair. In order to avoid looking like their old-fashioned Dad's, and trying to remain cool and current (pride, vanity), what do they do? If you can't beat 'em, join 'em...and double down on it to boot. Lol. So they shave their heads entirely.......it's a backhanded (perverse) way of trying to be ahead of the curve and in CONTROL. Similarly we all have done similar in our fall....all have FALLEN short of the glory.....but it has been lost to our memory and beyond our conscious awareness. But not the Lord....He remembers and knows what we have done.

An example from my own life, in case it might be helpful to anyone, is this. Think I was in my early 50's when the Lord brought my fall back to my memory. I wasn't even three years old yet....and I had this memory of standing in the doorway of the room where my Dad was sitting down at his desk from what I was remembering and something put it into my mind to make him my idol. It was the devil who made the suggestion because how could a toddler possibly have any notion like that otherwise? The reason I was tempted was because I felt intimidated and unloved....this was my backhanded (perverse) way of trying to stay ahead of the curve and maintain a sense of being in control and deal with fear. The Lord gave me to understand that when we feel unloved for whatever reasons, we feel uncovered, naked, ashamed....it hurts our pride, and we try to make our own covering (like Adam&Eve's fig leaves) to solve the problem. We could have turned to God for help, but instead we harkened to the devil who was lying to us.....it is a sin akin to witchcraft (rebellion).....we were making an evil transaction where something very real and spiritual happened.....but doing so meant that we fell into the devil's snare......instead of being in control, we gave control over to the devil....his snare snapped shut and locked over us like a bear trap that we could not get out of on our own. A bondage. And lost to our memory......hidden in darkness.

In my case I received the spirit of a man-pleasing harlot. God had given me some rebukes from scripture related to harlotry.....at first I was shocked...who me??.....then when I thought about it for a minute I realized yeah, He is right, that is in me, I'm busted.........and turned out He was so completely right on a level I didn't even know! And at some point the Lord restored my childhood and the truth by revealing to me that HE loved me, therefore I was never unloved and that I was never abandoned or neglected but He was with me in everything that I had gone through.

Now different people have different situations and details of their lives......but I believe the principle is the same or similar for everyone....we all follow the pattern of Eve....being tempted for whatever reasons and believing the devil's lies and falling into his snare....falling from God's glory, His image of how He created us to be. We kind of double down on our problem subconsciously, we bowed down to it in a way, in an effort to be in control of it. But it's all a lie. So we need to believe God even when we don't yet understand and let the truth at least begin to set us free. One best kept secret of Christendom is repentance....we are all accountable for our sins regardless, so the only way out is to take responsibility for them, acknowledge them as sin and repent. Confess/acknowledge our sins and He will be faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It's not always overnight....we need to persevere.....asking, seeking, knocking. Judge ourselves so that we will not be judged with the world. And for heaven's sake and your own sake just BELIEVE God. He is not a man that He should lie....and He is a lot smarter than we are and He knows a lot of things that we don't.

 

[quietthinker]

They were inspired to write down things that we are to learn lessons from, sure. But Jonah wasn't written as a lesson to teach that it's a good thing to run away from God, rather the opposite. And just to say, God did tell Abraham to sacrifice Isaac....it was a test. And also as an allegory and foreshadowing of God sacrificing His own Son. If God says all scripture is inspired by Him and profitable to make us wise unto salvation, and to be instructed in righteousness, and reproved, etc, then we need to believe it and stop undermining His word.

What I'm saying is we need to be mindful of how (the 'how' underlined for deliberate emphasis) we hear texts like, 'all scripture is given by inspiration....' It is not to undermine the text but rather to understand it and consider the assumptions we bring to it.

For example, what do we do with the stories of genocide or that of the Man of God dismembering his concubine after finding her dead on his doorstep because he pushed her out of the door to a rabid crowd of rapists?
These and more accounts are all in the scriptures which we have labeled the 'Word of God'.....and from that we bounce into the assumption that 'God's Word' is inerrant.

Don't you think this is a worthy matter/ issue to discuss....and hopefully come to a tenable position instead of taking on and accepting what past generations of well meaning believers have never considered looking at?

 

[St. SteVen]

Great post, thanks!

What I'm saying is we need to be mindful of how (the 'how' underlined for deliberate emphasis) we hear texts like, 'all scripture is given by inspiration....' It is not to undermine the text but rather to understand it and consider the assumptions we bring to it.

Well said!
Exactly. Understanding where the Bible came from helps us to BETTER understand WHAT it means!

Don't you think this is a worthy matter/ issue to discuss....and hopefully come to a tenable position instead of taking on and accepting what past generations of well meaning believers have never considered looking at?

Agree.
We can't just sweep these things aside as if they don't exist. We need to grapple with them.
The church has given us a smoke screen that covers these things up.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

What I'm saying is we need to be mindful of how (the 'how' underlined for deliberate emphasis) we hear texts like, 'all scripture is given by inspiration....' It is not to undermine the text but rather to understand it and consider the assumptions we bring to it.

For example, what do we do with the stories of genocide or that of the Man of God dismembering his concubine after finding her dead on his doorstep because he pushed her out of the door to a rabid crowd of rapists?
These and more accounts are all in the scriptures which we have labeled the 'Word of God'.....and from that we bounce into the assumption that 'God's Word' is inerrant.

Don't you think this is a worthy matter/ issue to discuss....and hopefully come to a tenable position instead of taking on and accepting what past generations of well meaning believers have never considered looking at?

We can only rightly divide the scriptures with the illumination of the Holy Spirit. First of all, as the bible says, these things happened unto Israel and were written for OUR admonition...Israel wiping out the Canaanites was at the behest of God who was righteously judging the Canaanites once their transgression had come to the full. He used Israel as His battle axe and weapon of war. That is a picture of the church being God's army, only our weapons are not carnal but mighty in God, in His Spirit.

We need to stop being man-centred, and give GOD the honour and the highest place that is due to Him.....stop thinking that sinful man is entitled to a rose garden in life, when all the human race is really entitled to is death. We need heaven's point of view, not an earthly and fleshly one that puts man at the centre and top of the heap in place of God. That is the meaning of making an image of a man and worshiping it (idolatry).

The story of the concubine in Judges 19 is a story of how far Israel had fallen (apostasized).......it mirrors the story of Sodom and Lot, with the city's/nation's sins reaching to the skies, signified by the gang of homosexual rapists lusting for some new flesh to taste so to speak. In both cases men lying with men was seen as so vile a sin in God's sight it would be better to sacrifice their own daughters rather than give up their houseguest (whose safety they were responsible for in bringing them under their roof) to vile homosexual acts. The Levite cutting up the dead concubine (who herself had gone a-whoring before all this happened to her, it is to be noted) and sending the 12 parts to the 12 tribes was to try and wake up Israel to how horrific her apostasy and sin had become. (The concubine's body being divided into twelve parts and going to twelve different tribes in itself is a picture of whoredom....Israel going after many lovers instead of being faithful to one Lord and God.)

Homosexuality in scripture is said to be typical of pagans, not people of God, and if it becomes rampant, either among the people of God (church) or in a nation, it is a sign of transgression coming to the full and being ripe for judgment. (But on an individual level of course the good news is that homosexual persons may come to Christ and repent/turn away from their sins.)

 

[St. SteVen]

Homosexuality in scripture is said to be typical of pagans, not people of God...

Really?
Who was Leviticus 18 and 20 written to? Pagans? No...
It was the Israelites that needed this correction before going into the Promised Land.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Really?
Who was Leviticus 18 and 20 written to? Pagans? No...
It was the Israelites that needed this correction before going into the Promised Land.

/

The point is that being in sin means apostasizing/backsliding into being a pagan (lost soul) again.

 

[St. SteVen]

The point is that being in sin means apostasizing/backsliding into being a pagan (lost soul) again.

The church tends to grade sins (plural) on a scale. Making some sins (plural) worse than others.
I think God views sin (singular) as a PASS/FAIL thing. We all have failed.

Who could possibly be saved (not lost souls) in your quoted view above?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

The church tends to grade sins (plural) on a scale. Making some sins (plural) worse than others.
I think God views sin (singular) as a PASS/FAIL thing. We all have failed.

Who could possibly be saved (not lost souls) in your quoted view above?

That is for sure the lesson of the concubine and Lot's offering of his daughters. When we stop our grappling and trying to figure it out on our own, but ask and seek the Lord, and wait upon Him, He will give the illumination.

We are saved when we receive Christ by His Spirit and begin to walk in a new direction....away from our former sinful life. Walk in the spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. We are not to be like the sow that was washed and return to our wallowing in the mire of our former sins....that's called backsliding and apostasizing, and leads to judgment. What does it say...?...worse in the end than in the beginning. Unless we repent.

These things were all written out of God's love for our good. God's word is not our enemy, but our friend. What does it profit to have our "best life now" and have our own way but lose our own soul? This life is so short anyhow, it sure just isn't worth it to lose our soul in order to have all our desires and have everything go our way in this life for such a short time.....only to lose our soul for eternity. Remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man. And Jesus saying to the Father, not my will but Thine be done.

Everything we need and God's promises to us come through the cross....when we carry it for Him....which involves denying our selves.. Healing, revelation, provision, etc. Even when it comes to understanding the word...scripture says to "buy" the truth and "sell" it not)....as we carry our crosses we are paying the price for it and He gives us more truth, more understanding. Count the cost of following Him ,and don't sell out the truth in order to justify and satisfy the flesh for a little while, like Esau.