Y do U believe what U believe, and do U have good reasons 4 those beliefs? - let's find out.

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ReChoired

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The Holy Ghost/Spirit is an eternal divine Person, a Being that is not the Person/Being of the Father, that is not the Person/Being of the Son.

The Holy Spirit

Some stumble over the Holy Spirit being called “it”, and by this claim that He is only a force, a power, a non-intelligence.

Yet, they should also recognize that Jesus was called “it” [Revelation 12:4 KJB], “child” [Revelation 12:2,4,5 KJB], “holy thing” [Luke 1:35 KJB] and “holy child” [Acts 4:27,30 KJB], all of which are also neuter gender. Jesus is still a "person" [Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 2:10 KJB] and masculine.

The Father in Heaven, who indeed is a "person" [Hebrews 1:3; Job 13:8 KJB], is also given neuter terms, such as "Ancient of Days" [Daniel 7:9,13,22 KJB] and "Majesty" [Hebrews 1:3, 8:1 KJB], "I AM", "the living" [Matthew 16:16, 26:63; John 6:69; Acts 14:15 KJB], "Maker" [Job 36:3; Hosea 8:14; Hebrews 11:10 KJB], "Creator" [Romans 1:25; 1 Peter 4:19 KJB], and even referred to as "it" connected with "this voice", and "angel" (message) [John 12:29 KJB], etc, etc.

The wicked angels, also "persons" (fallen, contrasted to unfallen) [Luke 15:7 KJB], are also called “it” [Luke 8:29, 9:39, 11:14, etc. KJB], but they too are intelligent [though created] beings and cited in the masculine.

Neuter terms do not automatically mean inanimate, for instance, the terms “child”, “babe”, “person”, “mail-carrier”, “flight attendant”, etc.

The Holy Spirit is “another Comforter”, verily a Person, even as the Father and the Son [Jesus] are Comforters and are “Persons” [Deuteronomy 27:25; Matthew 27:24; 2 Corinthians 2:10; Hebrews 1:3 KJB] and comes in Jesus' name, and testifies of Jesus:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.​

Throughout scripture, we see that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is a Person/Being sent by the Father and Son:

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:​

Do not be deceived by the word "Powers" into thinking you are dealing with a mere force, since the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost/Spirit, as well as unfallen [as Gabriel and legions of Light] and fallen angels [as Lucifer and legions of Lie-ght], etc are all designated as "powers", each whom are living persons, living beings, see

Heavenly “powers” (simply means an 'authority', see also 1 Peter 3:22 KJB, "authorities"):

Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

1 Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
The Ancient of Days [Daniel 7:9,13,22 KJB] is The Heavenly Father which is "Our Father who art in Heaven ..." [Matthew 6:9; Luke 11:2; KJB etc.]

The Son, Jesus Christ is also a Father [Isaiah 9:6 KJB], see Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1 [He is true Israel, and as true Israel, he has children, even twelve tribes [James 1:1 KJB], see Revelation 7:3-8; 14:1-5 KJB], then turn to Hebrews 2:9-13; Isaiah 8:8-20 [which Hebrews quotes, see Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:18 KJB], for His disciples are His "children" that the Father gave unto Him [see also John 13:33 KJB], being the true "overcomer" [John 16:33; Revelation 3:21 KJB], the real "Prince" with God [Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5 KJB], being Lord over His own house, whose house are we [Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33 KJB], who himself is the "elect" [Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6 KJB] of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization [2 Corinthians 1:20 KJB].

The Holy Ghost/Spirit is also a Father, for "the man" Christ Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost; see Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35 KJB, and we as Christians are "babes", even "born again" [1 Peter 1:23 KJB] of the Holy Ghost [John 3:3,5,6,7,8 KJB], and thus we are "born of God", the Holy Ghost [John 1:13; 1 John 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18 KJB]

They are all Fathers, but not the same person/being, nor in the same manner. They are all Creators [Makers; Ecclesiastes 12:1 HOT, see also 'septuaginta'], and thus they are all Head over all creation [body]. This is what is referred to in scripture, as Godhead.

The Holy Spirit wills and is omniscient:

1 Corinthians 12:11 KJB - But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Colossians 2:2 KJB - That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Colossians 2:3 KJB - In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.​
 

ReChoired

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...I will pray for a little humility to come your way.
The Pharisees said the same thing to Jesus, by implication:

Joh 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.​

I come with the word of God, in the stead of Jesus, as an ambassador of Heaven.

The Pharisees wrongly mistook the truth for arrogancy, for puffed up, when the arrogancy and puffing, was in themselves, and it was they which needed the humility, not the one bearing the straight testimony of the truth.

Yet, if you want to pray for me, I will not reject such, so long as you also include each in this thread. What we believe should be thoroughly tested, so that we hold no error in anything, doctrine, deed or character.
 

amadeus

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Do you believe there is a single group of people that are the pillar and ground of truth, an organized and visible body on earth that represents Jesus Christ, and has proper leadership in council and continue in the apostles doctrine, which is Christ's doctrine, in every nation, keeping God's commandments, and having the faith and testimony of Jesus?

If you do, where is that visible body, and what is it's name? For there is "one faith" and not many, and then let us test it by the written word:​
Your questions and supportive verses according to your own studies and judgments might lead one seeking Truth to where you attend or belong now, but hopefully not to where you are now or to where I also have been … deluded … because if we had love for Him before we lost sight of it we allowed pride to insert itself between us and the Head of the Body of Christ. You won't admit this now, I guess, but I know from my own experience. This same obstacle is much worse than a simple bump in the road. Heavy equipment will be required to break up that road, take out all of the old corrupted pavement and completely redo it. Oh, so beautiful it was becoming but...

I was gone for 10 years, but God drew me back as I humbled myself and He humbled me and chastised me as I admitted and realized that before Him that I was nothing. He is everything good.


"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:" Isa 14:13

"They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;" Isaiah 14:16

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16
 
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amadeus

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Is Jesus the model for living the Christian life? is Jesus the model for the life of prayer?
Precisely! And not one person I have met on this forum has shown himself to be very to that model including and especially, yours truly!
 
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ReChoired

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Precisely! And not one person I have met on this forum has shown himself to be very to that model including and especially, yours truly!
Is the example of that model of Jesus living the Christian life, and the life of prayer found written in the scripture, or do I need to look somewhere else for that model also, besides scripture?
 
B

brakelite

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No doubt you have to be supportive of all this stuff
This stuff? The title of the thread is certainly challenging...to verify that what we believe has a foundation. Yes,I am supportive of the doctrines noted by the OP. and for good reason. They are biblical, as was shown in each instant with plenty of supporting texts and passages. Yes,I am supportive because I studied those very same texts, sometimes for months on end before settling on a positive conclusion...and I am still studying to uncover more gems and jewels in scripture to further enhance the whole picture...looking at context, comparing scripture with scripture, line upon line, here a little there a little, ensuring that there is harmony and no damage to the rest of God's word. And concluded that yes, this is what scripture teaches. So does this stuff matter? Well yes,I believe doctrine matters. Sound doctrine guides our spiritual walk that we may not stumble or fall into error and heresy which can directly affect our salvation. Knowing however that you are a Universalist, I guess the truth or veracity of scripture and how we take those truths on board isn't that important.
.I am nondenominational dividing lines are what Satan likes
I am not sure I agree that Satan likes division when one considers Babel, and the world's leaders' attempts to rebuild it. Ecumenism is one of Satan's babies...unity under a banner of compromise where truth becomes secondary to unity. Your non denominational stance reflects, for whatever reason,a reluctance to commit to any one denomination yes? So you divided? Unity in truth is what God seeks...and whether you like the inference or not, I mentioned several pages back in response to Scott that the Seventh Day Adventist church is more unified, sharing and agreeing on over two dozen important doctrines...that is unity.
I hope you see how pushing a doctrine at people and trying to prove them wrong
Is he really trying to prove you wrong? Or is he simply trying to challenge you to do your own due diligence that you may know whether you are wrong...or right...whatever the case may be? Perhaps what he is doing is unmasking our own willingness to compromise truth in order to squeeze everyone into heaven?
Yes.he asks some tough questions.but I dont recall once where he explicitly said we were wrong in our belief, but is simply asking us all to give the scripture that supports it, and then asked if that scripture we are fond of using is in harmony with the rest of scripture on the same topic. I dont think that the challenge to use scripture to support doctrine is unreasonable...nor the query as to why we are so reluctant to do so. Yes, he is insistent. Yes, he doesn't back down. Yes, he isn't about to compromise his own beliefs...but has repeatedly told everyone that if you can justify from scripture that he is wrong he would welcome to do that study.
What I observe going on here is a group of genuine Christians discussing doctrine, but not all of them willing to go too deep from fear of being found out. So we blame the one who does want to go deep as being arrogant, unreasonable, unloving, demanding, disrespectful. All the while he is simply challenging our own sensitivities and trying to remove our masks.
You may object to all this of course, and say we are allowed to be wrong, and of course we are, but do we want to be?
 
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brakelite

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When Jesus asked for a coin, then asked, whose inscription is this? A challenging question. But they didn't see through to the end conclusion, so answered plainly. I wonder if we are reluctant to answer questions because deep down we are not as secure as we like to think, and like the Pharisees can't see to the end but are fearful of the outcome?
 
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ReChoired

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When Jesus asked for a coin, then asked, whose inscription is this? A challenging question. But they didn't see through to the end conclusion, so answered plainly. I wonder if we are reluctant to answer questions because deep down we are not as secure as we like to think, and like the Pharisees can't see to the end but are fearful of the outcome?
Even moreso, was Jesus being cruel in asking it, or trying to utterly humiliate them?

Jesus was willing to have his own beliefs tested, even if it was a trap:

Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?​

Jesus was willing to engage their beliefs, by scriptural testing, that they might see Him clearly:

Mat 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Mat 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mat 22:46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.​
 
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amadeus

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Is the example of that model of Jesus living the Christian life, and the life of prayer found written in the scripture, or do I need to look somewhere else for that model also, besides scripture?
Look to Him! Seek His face! Seek His kingdom and His righteousness!
 

ReChoired

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Look to Him! Seek His face! Seek His kingdom and His righteousness!
Look to Him? How do I identify Him? There are many which present themselves as 'Jesus', even 'Messiah' and 'Christ' these days.

For instance, you mention a 'prayer language', that you refuse to type here, for others to translate, and yet I do not see Jesus, my example in the Christian life and prayer life, doing anything like that in all of the OT or NT. So, do I follow the Jesus and His example, that scripture identifies, or another?
 

Nancy

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This stuff? The title of the thread is certainly challenging...to verify that what we believe has a foundation. Yes,I am supportive of the doctrines noted by the OP. and for good reason. They are biblical, as was shown in each instant with plenty of supporting texts and passages. Yes,I am supportive because I studied those very same texts, sometimes for months on end before settling on a positive conclusion...and I am still studying to uncover more gems and jewels in scripture to further enhance the whole picture...looking at context, comparing scripture with scripture, line upon line, here a little there a little, ensuring that there is harmony and no damage to the rest of God's word. And concluded that yes, this is what scripture teaches. So does this stuff matter? Well yes,I believe doctrine matters. Sound doctrine guides our spiritual walk that we may not stumble or fall into error and heresy which can directly affect our salvation. Knowing however that you are a Universalist, I guess the truth or veracity of scripture and how we take those truths on board isn't that important.

I am not sure I agree that Satan likes division when one considers Babel, and the world's leaders' attempts to rebuild it. Ecumenism is one of Satan's babies...unity under a banner of compromise where truth becomes secondary to unity. Your non denominational stance reflects, for whatever reason,a reluctance to commit to any one denomination yes? So you divided? Unity in truth is what God seeks...and whether you like the inference or not, I mentioned several pages back in response to Scott that the Seventh Day Adventist church is more unified, sharing and agreeing on over two dozen important doctrines...that is unity.

Is he really trying to prove you wrong? Or is he simply trying to challenge you to do your own due diligence that you may know whether you are wrong...or right...whatever the case may be? Perhaps what he is doing is unmasking our own willingness to compromise truth in order to squeeze everyone into heaven?
Yes.he asks some tough questions.but I dont recall once where he explicitly said we were wrong in our belief, but is simply asking us all to give the scripture that supports it, and then asked if that scripture we are fond of using is in harmony with the rest of scripture on the same topic. I dont think that the challenge to use scripture to support doctrine is unreasonable...nor the query as to why we are so reluctant to do so. Yes, he is insistent. Yes, he doesn't back down. Yes, he isn't about to compromise his own beliefs...but has repeatedly told everyone that if you can justify from scripture that he is wrong he would welcome to do that study.
What I observe going on here is a group of genuine Christians discussing doctrine, but not all of them willing to go too deep from fear of being found out. So we blame the one who does want to go deep as being arrogant, unreasonable, unloving, demanding, disrespectful. All the while he is simply challenging our own sensitivities and trying to remove our masks.
You may object to all this of course, and say we are allowed to be wrong, and of course we are, but do we want to be?

Very good, and important words BL,
I will say that I was convicted several times throughout your post. Doctrine is very important and we certainly should know why we believe what we do. But to sit there and watch some guy talking to me in a 55 minute video, not to mention some really long posts to decipher...one could get overwhelmed (at least, I do) would have to dedicate more time than one might have or perhaps someone like myself, I just plain don't understand all those charts and letters in Koine Greek or Hebrew. But, concerning the OP, if somebody replies to it, and gives their 4 beliefs, shouldn't that be enough? If what they wrote or read had made them think about things, that's a good thing. Just way too much content in my book. The poor thread took off pretty well, IMHO, but took a nasty turn somewhere. :(
 

ReChoired

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I just plain don't understand all those charts and letters in Koine Greek or Hebrew.
Why then did you attempt to tell me that Jesus said (in translit. koine Greek) "agape" (αγαπας) "three times" in John 21:15-17? Where did you get the information from? These are pretty simple questions, for someone who was attempting to teach me something about "love", yes? I do not want to believe any ol' thing, I want to believe truth.
 

ReChoired

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But, concerning the OP, if somebody replies to it, and gives their 4 beliefs, shouldn't that be enough?
No, because the OP wasn't merely concerned with "beliefs", but also the "reasons" for those beliefs and the why's and whether they were true and accurate biblically speaking.

Y do U believe what U believe, and do U have good reasons 4 those beliefs? - let's find out together.

I haven't always believed what I currently believe, and it took some time to really think and pray about what I believe, and why, and whether those beliefs were true, had any rationality to them, and were biblically sound. In that searching, I found some of the things I believed were untrue, not rational, and incoherent, even dangerous, but was willing to consider what I believed anyway, and in so doing, was willing to change where needful.

So this thread is for that purpose, that we may all consider what we believe, why we believe it, by some searching, studying, thinking and praying.

For instance, I believe Jesus is returning very soon, yet I did not always used to believe that, or even think on it.
 

Nancy

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Why then did you attempt to tell me that Jesus said (in koine Greek) "agape" "three times" in John 21:15-17? Where did you get the information from? These are pretty simple questions, for someone who was attempting to teach me something about "love", yes? I do not want to believe any ol' thing, I want to believe truth.

I googled it too quickly and carelessly as I was on the way out. It is something I had heard about. My rash mistake...BTW-I am no teacher as I'm sure you know, so I was not attempting to teach you anything. And, the whole reason I am a Christian is because I wanted nothing but the truth, and always will. It's just silly to want to stick ones head in the sand.
 
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ReChoired

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I googled it too quickly and carelessly as I was on the way out. It is something I had heard about. My rash mistake...BTW-I am no teacher as I'm sure you know, so I was not attempting to teach you anything. And, the whole reason I am a Christian is because I wanted nothing but the truth, and always will. It's just silly to want to stick ones head in the sand.
Ok, I can understand that. The video then was presented to help all understand the truth, and it was by a non-Seventh-day Adventist (and the time index marked out). The "test" therein is fun to do, and I failed it the first time also. Everyone does who takes it.
 

Nancy

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Why then did you attempt to tell me that Jesus said (in translit. koine Greek) "agape" (αγαπας) "three times" in John 21:15-17? Where did you get the information from? These are pretty simple questions, for someone who was attempting to teach me something about "love", yes? I do not want to believe any ol' thing, I want to believe truth.

BTW-I believe I said Jesus said it 3 times...He said it TWO times and the last time, he used phileo . Peter kept saying "Phileo.
 

Nancy

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Ok, I can understand that. The video then was presented to help all understand the truth, and it was by a non-Seventh-day Adventist (and the time index marked out). The "test" therein is fun to do, and I failed it the first time also. Everyone does who takes it.[/QU OTE]

Yes, I noticed it was a non Seventh-Day Adventist. I might check it out as it is 3:25 AM here and eyes wide open.
 

Nancy

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No, because the OP wasn't merely concerned with "beliefs", but also the "reasons" for those beliefs and the why's and whether they were true and accurate biblically speaking.

"So this thread is for that purpose, that we may all consider what we believe, why we believe it, by some searching, studying, thinking and praying."
Okay, so you were explicit! lol.
 

ReChoired

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BTW-I believe I said Jesus said it 3 times...He said it TWO times and the last time, he used phileo . Peter kept saying "Phileo.
Yes, now look at the text in plain English:

Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.​

Notice the highlighted words, carefully and think about it in the context of 'agape', 'phileo' and what you just acknowledged, "... He said it [agape] TWO times and the last time, he used phileo ..." (which is why I asked you previously)." Therefore, where is the "third time", unless both "agape" and "phileo" are equal as synonyms, like unto "jump", "leap", "hop", "bound", or "create", "make", "formed", etc. I can point to many other examples, even in the same text. Look at the word "feed".