Your thoughts on TEN verses

[ATP]

Firstly they would have to be looked at in context. However, from what I see at a glance is that they all appear to apply to believers. No of them, however, say one can't stop believing.

Of course it applies to believers, for believers are the children of God. God's love and Grace is what keeps us in him. He keeps us in him, not the other way around. Neither present nor future brother. Rom 8:38-39.

I use to believe OSAS for quite a few years. However, as I began to study the Scriptures more I came to realize that it's not what the Scriptures teach.

What scriptures are you referring too.

 

[Butch5]

Of course it applies to believers, for believers are the children of God. God's love and Grace is what keeps us in him. He keeps us in him, not the other way around. Neither present nor future brother. Rom 8:38-39.


What scriptures are you referring too.

If you look at that passage closely it says nothing can separate us from the "love" of God, it doesn't say anything about a person choosing to no longer follow Christ.

I was referring to the Scriptures as a whole.

The Scriptures as a whole show us that one must remain in Christ to be saved.

 

[ATP]

If you look at that passage closely it says nothing can separate us from the "love" of God, it doesn't say anything about a person choosing to no longer follow Christ.

I was referring to the Scriptures as a whole.

The Scriptures as a whole show us that one must remain in Christ to be saved.

Rom 8:38-39 has believers written all over it Butch. Yes, one must remain in Christ, and it is God's grace that keeps us in him.

 

[Butch5]

Rom 8:38-39 has believers written all over it Butch. Yes, one must remain in Christ, and it is God's grace that keeps us in him.

But the passage is speaking the love of God. It doesn't say one cannot turn away. In order to prove OSAS one needs to prove that a believer cannot ever become an unbeliever. People post verses saying things about what God will do. However, the promises in Scripture are to those who believe. So, in order to prove OSAS one must prove that once a person believes they can never stop believing. However, we have Jesus' own words that show they can.

13 "But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. (Luk 8:13 NKJ)

They believe for a a while and in time of temptation turn away.

 

[ATP]

But the passage is speaking the love of God. It doesn't say one cannot turn away. In order to prove OSAS one needs to prove that a believer cannot ever become an unbeliever. People post verses saying things about what God will do. However, the promises in Scripture are to those who believe. So, in order to prove OSAS one must prove that once a person believes they can never stop believing. However, we have Jesus' own words that show they can.

13 "But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. (Luk 8:13 NKJ)

They believe for a a while and in time of temptation turn away.

Butch, did Christ not die on the cross out of love? It says neither present nor future can remove us from God.

 

[Butch5]

Butch, did Christ not die on the cross out of love? It says neither present nor future can remove us from God.

38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Rom 8:38-39 NKJ)

Jesus said for God so loved the world. If a person turns from God it doesn't mean that God doesn't love them anymore, but the promises are only for those who believe.

 

[ATP]

38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Rom 8:38-39 NKJ)

Jesus said for God so loved the world. If a person turns from God it doesn't mean that God doesn't love them anymore, but the promises are only for those who believe.

Correct, and it is impossible for a born again christian to go back to atheism. Do you know why that is?

All those scriptures that refer to falling away is referring to either apostates or non believing Jews in Israel.

Apostates are not born again christians, polar opposite people my friend.

 

[Butch5]

Correct, and it is impossible for a born again christian to go back to atheism. Do you know why that is?

All those scriptures that refer to falling away is referring to either apostates or non believing Jews in Israel.

Apostates are not born again christians, polar opposite people my friend.

A person cannot fall from a place they have never been. One cannot fall from a building in which they have never been. It order to fall away from belief one must first believe.

I usually don't discuss this subject any more because arguments always go into the illogical realm. Words don't mean what they mean and things that are clear statements don't mean what they say etc. I have had people with whom I was discussing this subject tell me that people who were followers of Satan were still saved. That is the extreme people will go to in order to hold this doctrine. I feel there is a force that drives this doctrine other than Scripture because I have seen some bazaar interpretations made in order to hold on to this doctrine.

I don't know how it could be any clearer, some believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. These are the words of Jesus Himself.

 

[ATP]

A person cannot fall from a place they have never been. One cannot fall from a building in which they have never been. It order to fall away from belief one must first believe.

I would disagree on this. I would submit that even the devil knows the Lord, accepting the Lord as Savior is another story. Rom 1:18-32 NIV.

I don't know how it could be any clearer, some believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. These are the words of Jesus Himself.

Well, it all comes down to God's Grace. Do you believe the creator of the universe and His Grace is sufficient for you and will never leave you?

 

[Butch5]

I would disagree on this. I would submit that even the devil knows the Lord, accepting the Lord as Savior is another story. Rom 1:18-32 NIV.


Well, it all comes down to God's Grace. Do you believe the creator of the universe and His Grace is sufficient for you and will never leave you?

Everything has to be understood in context. I believe it is taking the passages from their context that allows this doctrine to continue. For instance, you alluded to the passage that says God will never leaves you.

KJV Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. (Heb 13:5 KJV)

People take this passage and interpret it in a vacuum. However, notice Paul said, "for he hath said". He quoting something from the OT. Here is what he is referring to.

KJV Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. 4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. 5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. 6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them. {unto this...: or, thou shalt cause this people to inherit the land, etc} 7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. {prosper: or, do wisely} 8 {haThis book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.ve...: or, do wisely} 9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest. (Jos 1:1 KJV)

Here God tells Joshua that He will not fail nor forsake him. He tells Joshua to make sure to keep the Law. However, a little while later we find,

NKJ Joshua 7:1 But the children of Israel committed a trespass regarding the accursed things, for Achan the son of Carmi, the son of Zabdi1, the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, took of the accursed things; so the anger of the LORD burned against the children of Israel.
2 Now Joshua sent men from Jericho to Ai, which is beside Beth Aven, on the east side of Bethel, and spoke to them, saying, "Go up and spy out the country." So the men went up and spied out Ai.
3 And they returned to Joshua and said to him, "Do not let all the people go up, but let about two or three thousand men go up and attack Ai. Do not weary all the people there, for the people of Ai are few."
4 So about three thousand men went up there from the people, but they fled before the men of Ai.
5 And the men of Ai struck down about thirty-six men, for they chased them from before the gate as far as Shebarim, and struck them down on the descent; therefore the hearts of the people melted and became like water.
6 Then Joshua tore his clothes, and fell to the earth on his face before the ark of the LORD until evening, he and the elders of Israel; and they put dust on their heads.
7 And Joshua said, "Alas, Lord GOD, why have You brought this people over the Jordan at all-- to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? Oh, that we had been content, and dwelt on the other side of the Jordan!
8 "O Lord, what shall I say when Israel turns its back before its enemies?
9 "For the Canaanites and all the inhabitants of the land will hear it, and surround us, and cut off our name from the earth. Then what will You do for Your great name?"
10 So the LORD said to Joshua: "Get up! Why do you lie thus on your face?
11 "Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed My covenant which I commanded them. For they have even taken some of the accursed things, and have both stolen and deceived; and they have also put it among their own stuff.
12 "Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they have become doomed to destruction. Neither will I be with you anymore, unless you destroy the accursed from among you.
13 "Get up, sanctify the people, and say,`Sanctify yourselves for tomorrow, because thus says the LORD God of Israel: "There is an accursed thing in your midst, O Israel; you cannot stand before your enemies until you take away the accursed thing from among you."
(Jos 7:1-13 NKJ)

God had told Joshua that He would not forsake him yet when Israel sinned against God was not with them and He told Joshua, unless you remove the accursed thing I will not be with you any more. So, we see that God being with Joshua was not unconditional. If Joshua and the Israelites obeyed God would be with them if they did not He would not be with them. This is what Paul is referring to when he says God say He would never forsake them. It's not an unconditional statement as many Christians like to believe. God is with the believer as long as the believe is with God.

I would disagree on this. I would submit that even the devil knows the Lord, accepting the Lord as Savior is another story. Rom 1:18-32 NIV.


Well, it all comes down to God's Grace. Do you believe the creator of the universe and His Grace is sufficient for you and will never leave you?

How can you disagree with that statement? How can someone fall from a building they've never been in?

Accepting the Lord? The Scriptures tell us that one must believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and that believing one might be saved? The Devil know that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

 

[ATP]

Everything has to be understood in context. I believe it is taking the passages from their context that allows this doctrine to continue. For instance, you alluded to the passage that says God will never leaves you.

KJV Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. (Heb 13:5 KJV)

People take this passage and interpret it in a vacuum. However, notice Paul said, "for he hath said". He quoting something from the OT. Here is what he is referring to.

KJV Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. 4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. 5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. 6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them. {unto this...: or, thou shalt cause this people to inherit the land, etc} 7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. {prosper: or, do wisely} 8 {haThis book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.ve...: or, do wisely} 9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest. (Jos 1:1 KJV)

Here God tells Joshua that He will not fail nor forsake him. He tells Joshua to make sure to keep the Law. However, a little while later we find,

NKJ Joshua 7:1 But the children of Israel committed a trespass regarding the accursed things, for Achan the son of Carmi, the son of Zabdi1, the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, took of the accursed things; so the anger of the LORD burned against the children of Israel.
2 Now Joshua sent men from Jericho to Ai, which is beside Beth Aven, on the east side of Bethel, and spoke to them, saying, "Go up and spy out the country." So the men went up and spied out Ai.
3 And they returned to Joshua and said to him, "Do not let all the people go up, but let about two or three thousand men go up and attack Ai. Do not weary all the people there, for the people of Ai are few."
4 So about three thousand men went up there from the people, but they fled before the men of Ai.
5 And the men of Ai struck down about thirty-six men, for they chased them from before the gate as far as Shebarim, and struck them down on the descent; therefore the hearts of the people melted and became like water.
6 Then Joshua tore his clothes, and fell to the earth on his face before the ark of the LORD until evening, he and the elders of Israel; and they put dust on their heads.
7 And Joshua said, "Alas, Lord GOD, why have You brought this people over the Jordan at all-- to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? Oh, that we had been content, and dwelt on the other side of the Jordan!
8 "O Lord, what shall I say when Israel turns its back before its enemies?
9 "For the Canaanites and all the inhabitants of the land will hear it, and surround us, and cut off our name from the earth. Then what will You do for Your great name?"
10 So the LORD said to Joshua: "Get up! Why do you lie thus on your face?
11 "Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed My covenant which I commanded them. For they have even taken some of the accursed things, and have both stolen and deceived; and they have also put it among their own stuff.
12 "Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they have become doomed to destruction. Neither will I be with you anymore, unless you destroy the accursed from among you.
13 "Get up, sanctify the people, and say,`Sanctify yourselves for tomorrow, because thus says the LORD God of Israel: "There is an accursed thing in your midst, O Israel; you cannot stand before your enemies until you take away the accursed thing from among you."
(Jos 7:1-13 NKJ)

God had told Joshua that He would not forsake him yet when Israel sinned against God was not with them and He told Joshua, unless you remove the accursed thing I will not be with you any more. So, we see that God being with Joshua was not unconditional. If Joshua and the Israelites obeyed God would be with them if they did not He would not be with them. This is what Paul is referring to when he says God say He would never forsake them. It's not an unconditional statement as many Christians like to believe. God is with the believer as long as the believe is with God.

You're quoting the OT before resurrection though. There was no indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the OT.

You're focusing on your own works to get you into the kingdom and not the finished work on the cross.

John 19:30 NIV When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

[OzSpen]

ATP,

You wrote on 29 Jan 15 and then commented at #3 on 17 April:

Pretty cool that nobody here is challenging this thread. That is good stuff.

Then I responded at #4 why I haven't responded. I'm still awaiting your response to that post. Could it be that you don't like what I wrote at #4?

Do you understand what OSAS is. It's ok if you don't.


I believe OSAS is truth. Relationship vs Fellowship.

Matt 28:16-20 NIV - The Lord is with us always to the very end of the age.
John 3:18 NIV - There is now no condemnation.
John 5:24 NIV - We have crossed over from death to life.
John 10:27-30 NIV - We cannot be snatched from Jesus and Father's hand.
John 14:16 NIV - The Holy Spirit will never leave us.
Rom 4:7-8 NIV - All sins are covered.
Rom 8:1-2 NIV - There is now no condemnation.
Rom 8:9-11 NIV - We belong to Christ by adoption
Rom 8:15-17 NIV - We belong to Christ by adoption. We are heirs of God's family.
Rom 8:33 NIV - Who will bring any charge against God's elect.
Rom 8:37 NIV - God loved us first.
Rom 8:38-39 NIV - Neither present nor future can separate us from God.
Rom 10:3-4 NIV - God's righteousness is what keeps us saved, not ours.
Rom 10:9-10 NIV - Believing only comes once. Sanctification occurs for the rest of your life.
Eph 1:13-14 NIV - We were chosen/We were marked with a seal.
Eph 2:7-9 NIV - Salvation is a gift expressed in his kindness and not of ourselves.
Eph 4:30 NIV - We are sealed until death.
Phil 1:6 NIV - A good work is carried out on to completion.
Col 2:13-15 NIV - All sins are covered.
2 Tim 1:9 NIV - We're not saved because of anything we've done.
1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV - We have an eternal inheritance. We are shielded by God's power.
2 Peter 2:4-10 NIV - The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials.
1 John 3:9 NIV - God's seed remains in them. It doesn't leave them.
Rev 20:15 NIV - You're either in the book of life or you're not.

Matt 28:16-20 NIV Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
John 3:18 NIV Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 10:27-30 NIV My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
John 14:16 NIV And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever.
Rom 4:7-8 NIV “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”
Rom 8:1-2 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:9-11 NIV You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
Rom 8:15-17 NIV The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Rom 8:33 NIV Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
Rom 8:37 NIV No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
Rom 8:38-39 NIV For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 10:3-4 NIV Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Eph 2:7-9 NIV in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Phil 1:6 NIV being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Col 2:13-15 NIV When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
2 Tim 1:9 NIV He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,
1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Peter 2:4-10 NIV For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings;
1 John 3:9 NIV No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
Rev 20:15 NIV Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

- ATP

That response is still a red herring logical fallacy in addressing what I wrote at #4.

 

[ATP]

Then I responded at #4 why I haven't responded. I'm still awaiting your response to that post. Could it be that you don't like what I wrote at #4?

Correct. I disagree with post 4.

 

[OzSpen]

Correct. I disagree with post 4.

Your posts at #1 and #2 were WAY too long. This is a Forum, a conversation, not a one-way imposition of a theological view.

TOO LONG means just that. #1 OP by you was WAY TOO LONG for conversation as an OP in a forum. And approx 10 weeks without a comment to #1 and #2 should have told you that. My comment at #4 supported the view that you did not seem to want a conversation, but a LENGTHY IMPOSITION.

Oz

 

[ATP]

Your posts at #1 and #2 were WAY too long. This is a Forum, a conversation, not a one-way imposition of a theological view.

TOO LONG means just that. #1 OP by you was WAY TOO LONG for conversation as an OP in a forum. And approx 10 weeks without a comment to #1 and #2 should have told you that. My comment at #4 supported the view that you did not seem to want a conversation, but a LENGTHY IMPOSITION.

Oz

I believe this post TOO LONG too. It is also a fallacy.

 

[OzSpen]

I believe this post TOO LONG too. It is also a fallacy.

You are being obstinate. Which fallacy is it and how is it a fallacy?

 

[Axehead]

Firstly they would have to be looked at in context. However, from what I see at a glance is that they all appear to apply to believers. No of them, however, say one can't stop believing.

I use to believe OSAS for quite a few years. However, as I began to study the Scriptures more I came to realize that it's not what the Scriptures teach.

That's right, Butch. They apply to Believers. If one believes the 24 verses pertain to believers there is no reason to refute them. They certainly do not apply to non-believers.

Heb_3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Heb_3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Heb_4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Now, if this thread is about proving the security of the unbeliever, I don't believe in the security of the unbeliever and I think the scriptures are clear on that.

Axehead

 

[ATP]

You are being obstinate. Which fallacy is it and how is it a fallacy?

What you said was a fallacy. Speaking in riddles is definitely a fallacy. At least your post was shorter.

 

[OzSpen]

What you said was a fallacy. Speaking in riddles is definitely a fallacy. At least your post was shorter.

What is the name of the logical fallacy I am using?

 

[ATP]

What is the name of the logical fallacy I am using?

You speak in riddles. Riddles is the name.