ZECHARIAH 14

[Trekson]

You claim God's clear words below as written by Ezekiel the prophet are lies?

Ezekiel 39:9-10KJV
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.

No. I'm saying God used examples they would understand, I'm sure there will be plenty of fuel, diesel, gas and even nuclear that they will use for fuel to last them. The 1/3 left to enter the millennium isn't going to be that large.

 

[Trekson]

The "Day of the Lord" speaks generically of a *time* when something happens. It is the context that determines whether a prophecy is speaking of a single day or of an entire period that is being initiated.

The phrase DOL is also evident in other prophecies, though the term may assume different forms. For example...
Isa 13.6 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty.

I also am a Millennialist. I believe the Day of the Lord is sometimes defined as the literal day Christ comes back to initiate the period of a thousand years. This period also initiated the time of God's eternal Kingdom, which the glorified saints will inherit. It's just that establishing God's Kingdom on a still-mortal earth requires that mortal humanity wait to inherit that Kingdom until their own resurrection at the end of the thousand years.

I believe the 70 Weeks Prophecy was completed at Christ's 1st Coming. Trying to bring Dan 9 into discussions of the endtimes, therefore, creates needless confusion--just my opinion.

Zech 12-14, for me, compresses the two Comings of Christ. It talks about Christ's initial rejection as well as about his return to save national Israel. The description of the salvation of national Israel takes place, in my view, at the 2nd Coming.

I think the prophecy of Gog in Eze 38-39 refers to the time of Israel's national salvation as well, at the 1st Coming. However, Rev 20 talks about the same people rising up at the end of the Millennial period, as well. These are two different occasions, in my view.

Since this is future prophecy we have to remain humble and admit we're only speculating. This is not the kind of dogma we should get overly judgmental about, as some do. Our main task in this age is to focus on Christ as our salvation and on our job of communicating that to the world, whether for their salvation or for their judgment. But it's a very interesting subject for all of us interested in eschatology. Thanks for your thoughts.

I don't believe Dan. 9:24-27 is what I would consider a Messianic prophecy. When Jesus "came" as prophesied it was at the end of his ministry, three days before his crucifixion, Zech. 9:9 which ended the 69th week which ended the narrative of the messiah, the 70th week never began and the text read in the order as written shows that. The time of his ministry is not prophesied about except for the part he read in Nazareth

 

[Trekson]

You (like a lot of great preachers I trust in almost everything else) miss the forest here for the trees. Whilst those preachers are waiting on the "COMING" Psalm 83 Wars, they missed the fact they the Psalm 83 war has already passed. I watched Brother Reagan (Lamb & Lion ministry) one day on the "final 9 wars" to come in the end time on Youtube. So, as I am want to do (LOL) I dug in, just like I did with Daniel 11 and 12 and did an Exegesis that covers every king and player in Dan. 11 including Cleopatra, where I discovered a Jewish High Priest named Jason(real name Yeshua), who bribed Antiochus in order to be named High Priest, having his Pious High Priest brother Onias III killed. He then welcomed Antiochus into the temple to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus on God's altar. He then mandated that all Jews become Hellenized, which led to the Maccabean Revolt. So, via my studies, God showed me not only was Antiochus the archetype Anti-Christ BUT......he had along by his side the archetype False Prophet. Now I knew the end time False Prophet would be a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason.

Just like above, I dug in deep and I looked at all the names in the Psalm 83 war. I saw Mr. Reagan say the Psalm 83 war never declared a victor, and it hit me as I looked at all of the skirmishes/wars from 1948 to around 2010ish and all the players in those wars can be seen as coming against Israel for those 60 sone odd years. They said lets wipe Israel off the map in Psalm 83, well that is what they tired to do, but overall, to no avail. Then what happened around 2010 ? Iran was given the ability to go Nuclear via the Obama Administrations negotiations.

This made these same nations like Egypt, Jordan, the Saudis, UAE etc. etc. and Israel have a common goal, to stop a Nuclear Iran from ruling the region. Trump got elected via a minor miracle or a miracle by God's Divine Intervention. No Dem or Republican would have brought forth the Abraham Accords, Trump did. Now for the first time ever a UAE Royal Airplane landed in Israel, the Saudis and Israelis are at peace, and the Abraham Accords has brought this "Peace" which you say doesn't exist. But in days of old you had to have walls up to protect yourself, but in reality, you do not need walls up today to protect yourself except for against a few lunatic extremists who in reality can never defeat a nation. The United States has few walls and we could protect ourselves if needed. The writer was relaying the Message of Peace by saying they live in "UNWALLED VILLAGES" but the peace is in the fact that when the Gog and Magog War happens not one nation with a common border with Israel is seen in that Gog & Magog war. So, Israel being at peace with her immediate neighbors is what the Prophet Ezekiel was relaying unto us. Not some abstract walls being up. If you are waiting for walls to come down you will miss it. Just like the Euphrates River "DRYING UP" is a metaphor, modern day armies do not need rivers to try up to cross them do they? The River drying up is just God stopping His Plagues against the Nations long enough to get the cowards to come out of their caves, where Satan/Beast/False Prophet can deceive the nations/kings into going to Jerusalem tom try and kill off the Jews, because they rightly see the Two-witnesses as having brought forth all of these plagues via their prayers. After they die, the nations start thinking they can get revenge. God HALTS His plagues (dries up the River) long enough to get them to go to Israel where Jesus can wipe them all out as he returns. Now, get anyone to argue that modern armies need rivers to dry up in order to cross them, and I will have already defeated them in that debate.

By the way, Israel never accepts the Anti-Christ, that's a misunderstanding of John 5:43, Jesus was speaking of the Pharisees who REJECTED him, but put forth Messianic "Political Leaders" to try and save them from Rome in the 66-70 AD wars. The "Peace" Agreement is simply this, after the Gog and Magog war, Israel will join the E.U. That is all, the E.U. will demand Israel give up her Nukes in order to join the E.U. Then after 3.5 years he will conquer Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region.

They never accept a false messiah. That doesn't even make any sense tbh. Most of the Jews are secular atheists. 2/3 will refuse to repent (Zech. 13:8-9) and die. Meanwhile 1/3 repent BEFORE the DOTL arrives in Zech. 14:1. So, 3.5-5 million Jews repent and flee unto the Petra/Bozrahb area. The Seals DO NOTHING, the Seals are Jesus in Heaven amidst the Pre Trib Raptured Church opening up the Judgment Scrolls, which only get opened in Rev. 8, that is why the 7th seal is in Rev. 8. The Seals are simply Jesus FORETELLING what will come to pass once God's Wrath finally falls in Rev. 8. Seals 1-5 forecasts the coming Anti-Christ 42 month rule in which he 1.) Conquers for 42 months 2.) Takes away Peace/brings war over 42 months 3.) His wars bring 42 months of famine 4.) His rule brings 42 months of Sickness/Death and the grave. 5.) His rule sees him kill the Gentiles who repent after the Rapture (Martyrs).

In Seal #6 we are told what will happen when God's Wrath finally falls in Rev. 8. But first the Fleeing Jews in Rev. 7 have to be protected in the Petra/Bozrah area. There is SILENCE in Rev. 8 as the 7th Seal is opened because it is no joyous thing for God to have to unleash His wrath onto mankind, when He flooded the world it repented Him. The heavens are somber, not joyous at the occasion.


As per a mans eschatology, I trust nothing a person says about eschatology if they can not get the simple timing of the Rapture right. Satan hoodwinks those who think they have been enlightened, I see it all the time. It is what it is, Satan never stops working.

Agree to diagree

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't believe Dan. 9:24-27 is what I would consider a Messianic prophecy. When Jesus "came" as prophesied it was at the end of his ministry, three days before his crucifixion, Zech. 9:9 which ended the 69th week which ended the narrative of the messiah, the 70th week never began and the text read in the order as written shows that. The time of his ministry is not prophesied about except for the part he read in Nazareth

You're certainly entitled to your own view. I take the view that the Church Fathers had, which is that the 70th Week led to the 1st Coming of Messiah, and his death for sin.

 

[Truth7t7]

No. I'm saying God used examples they would understand, I'm sure there will be plenty of fuel, diesel, gas and even nuclear that they will use for fuel to last them. The 1/3 left to enter the millennium isn't going to be that large.

I'm glad to see you have been awaken to the reality that Ezekiel 39 was a battle fought long ago, and it's not future as you claimed

No wooden bows, arrows, shields, and spears, don't become machine guns, tanks, helicopters, and battleships, at the snap of your fingers to meet you beliefs

Yes there was a historical battle fought long ago, and those wooden weapons used were burned in the fires of Israel long ago, just as Ezekiel Prophesied

 

[Truth7t7]

You're certainly entitled to your own view. I take the view that the Church Fathers had, which is that the 70th Week led to the 1st Coming of Messiah, and his death for sin.

Scripture clearly teaches that the 70th week is future, that will see the bad guy revealed, and he will be present on this earth until the "Consummation" (The End)

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Trekson]

You're certainly entitled to your own view. I take the view that the Church Fathers had, which is that the 70th Week led to the 1st Coming of Messiah, and his death for sin.

The prophecy of Dan. 9:24 is for Israel to accomplish, not Christ and these things will be accomplished when Zech. 12:10 and 13:8-9 along w/ Matt. 23:39 are fulfilled and when Israel escorts the Messiah ("bring in everlasting righteousness") into Jerusalem after Armageddon. The fact that they didn't accept him as a nation is why the gap of the 70th week was needed in the first place. Daniel promises that spiritual knowledge will increase in the latter days and I trust our more modern understandings over the early church fathers any day. Most of these prophecies were beyond there comprehension as they are full of things about the future they had no hope of understanding. The bible is quite plain that the prophecies regarding the 70th week have never begun. Simply read the verses in the order they're in. Clue: Christ is not the prince of vs. 26 and the church did not destroy the temple. Don't believe me, believe the historic record.

 

[Trekson]

I'm glad to see you have been awaken to the reality that Ezekiel 39 was a battle fought long ago, and it's not future as you claimed

No wooden bows, arrows, shields, and spears, don't become machine guns, tanks, helicopters, and battleships, at the snap of your fingers to meet you beliefs

Yes there was a historical battle fought long ago, and those wooden weapons used were burned in the fires of Israel long ago, just as Ezekiel Prophesied

No I don't believe that battle was fought long ago that would be quite silly and contrary to the rest of prophecy. You're just trying to grasp at straws to deny the millennium you don't believe in. It's sad really.

 

[Truth7t7]

No I don't believe that battle was fought long ago that would be quite silly and contrary to the rest of prophecy. You're just trying to grasp at straws to deny the millennium you don't believe in. It's sad really.

A Millennial Kingdom on this earth doesn't exist in scripture, it's a man made fabricated fairy tale (Fact)

 

[Randy Kluth]

The prophecy of Dan. 9:24 is for Israel to accomplish, not Christ and these things will be accomplished when Zech. 12:10 and 13:8-9 along w/ Matt. 23:39 are fulfilled and when Israel escorts the Messiah ("bring in everlasting righteousness") into Jerusalem after Armageddon.

Sorry, that's your opinion--not mine. Dan 9.24 has to do with what Christ came to do the 1st time, in my view. The 6 things were all accomplished by him in response to Israel's sin. They have nothing to do with the endtime, in my opinion. You should know that there are different positions on this. Just asserting it, as true, does not make it true. You would have to prove your case--something you haven't done yet. But I'm already familiar with the arguments.

The fact that they didn't accept him as a nation is why the gap of the 70th week was needed in the first place.

I don't believe there's any "gap" at all. Why would there be? Wouldn't it have been said if there was one? Why would we be told there will be 70 Weeks [of years] if in reality it is 490 years plus 2000 years? Kind of destroys the statement entirely, doesn't it?

Daniel promises that spiritual knowledge will increase in the latter days and I trust our more modern understandings over the early church fathers any day.

So do you trust your own church denomination's judgment over that of the 12 apostles?

Most of these prophecies were beyond there comprehension as they are full of things about the future they had no hope of understanding. The bible is quite plain that the prophecies regarding the 70th week have never begun.

That isn't plain at all! My view sees all 6 items listed as fulfilled by Christ, who was cut off. And this was followed by the Roman desolation of Jerusalem, the "Abomination of Desolation."

Simply read the verses in the order they're in. Clue: Christ is not the prince of vs. 26 and the church did not destroy the temple. Don't believe me, believe the historic record.

Christ was put to death, which is precisely what the verse says.
Dan 9.26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The "Anointed One" refers to Christ, who was put to death, in my opinion. And the people of the ruler to come were the Roman Army of the Roman Empire. They destroyed the city of Jerusalem and the sanctuary in the generation in which Christ was put to death.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Scripture clearly teaches that the 70th week is future, that will see the bad guy revealed, and he will be present on this earth until the "Consummation" (The End)

"Clearly" taches?? The passage doesn't say that at all! Antichrist isn't mentioned. However, the Abomination of Desolation is mentioned, which is, I believe, the Roman Army. The "ruler" was Rome's leadership.

I'm not trying to be contentious. I'm just stating my opinion.

 

[Truth7t7]

"Clearly" taches?? The passage doesn't say that at all! Antichrist isn't mentioned. However, the Abomination of Desolation is mentioned, which is, I believe, the Roman Army. The "ruler" was Rome's leadership.

I'm not trying to be contentious. I'm just stating my opinion.

The "He" below isn't a Roman army, and this "He" will be present on earth until the "Consummation" (The End) something your silent on in response "why"?

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Trekson]

Sorry, that's your opinion--not mine. Dan 9.24 has to do with what Christ came to do the 1st time, in my view. The 6 things were all accomplished by him in response to Israel's sin. They have nothing to do with the endtime, in my opinion. You should know that there are different positions on this. Just asserting it, as true, does not make it true. You would have to prove your case--something you haven't done yet. But I'm already familiar with the arguments.

I don't believe there's any "gap" at all. Why would there be? Wouldn't it have been said if there was one? Why would we be told there will be 70 Weeks [of years] if in reality it is 490 years plus 2000 years? Kind of destroys the statement entirely, doesn't it?

So do you trust your own church denomination's judgment over that of the 12 apostles?

That isn't plain at all! My view sees all 6 items listed as fulfilled by Christ, who was cut off. And this was followed by the Roman desolation of Jerusalem, the "Abomination of Desolation."

Christ was put to death, which is precisely what the verse says.
Dan 9.26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The "Anointed One" refers to Christ, who was put to death, in my opinion. And the people of the ruler to come were the Roman Army of the Roman Empire. They destroyed the city of Jerusalem and the sanctuary in the generation in which Christ was put to death.

Jesus only made reconciliation for iniquity but on a personal level. Dan. 9:24 specifically states that it was for his people, the nation of Israel to do. The gap is right in the text itself. Jesus dies and ends the 69th week, temple is destroyed 40 yrs. later and sometime "after" that a prince makes a covenant w/ the many of Israel, this not a religious covenant is just a word meaning a pact or a treaty. So there is a minimum of at least a 40 yr. gap. The text also says they are given 70 weeks to accomplish this and nothing implies they need to be all consecutive. The text divides it into three groups, the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks, the 70th week is by itself because they are not concurrent. None of the 12 apostles implied that Dan. 9:24 was fulfilled, I thought you were talking about those that came after, generally the apostles are the 'founding" fathers and the early church fathers are those from the 1st-4th centuries. The AoD isn't in Dan. 9, Jesus was speaking of either Dan. 11:31 or 12:11. The Aod is a specific thing, not a period of time and it's future fulfillment can be found in Rev. 13:14-15. One must look at the AoD from God's pov, not Israel's, he had already washed his hands of them for a while so since God set he destruction of the temple in motion He is not going to commit an abomination against himself, ergo, not 70ad. If the 70weeks was consecutive then it would have been over by roughly 34ad and there simply is no record of a temporary 7 yr. covenant that allowed them to resume sacrifices and then took them away some time later. There's also the fact that after the 70th week is successfully completed a millennial like era would follow, I'm not seeing that, are you? Also, my views have absolutely nothing to do w/ any church or denomination. I haven't found one yet that is open to something other than a false, imo, pre-trib view or even worse, amill.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Agree to diagree

You can be wrong on things you have that right. But it sounds more like someone that got destroyed ad he can't rebut, so he just runs away from the debate. Its a little bit lazy tbh.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The "He" below isn't a Roman army, and this "He" will be present on earth until the "Consummation" (The End) something your silent on in response "why"?

Right--never said the "he" is a Roman Army. The Roman Army is the "people" of the ruler to come. The ruler, I indicated, is the Roman leadership, perhaps the general or generals who would lead in this invasion.

In the case of the 66-70 AD war, there were two generals who led the way for the Roman Army. We often think of the "people" as a population. But in this case, we are talking about a battle for a city and about the destruction of the sanctuary--just as Jesus described it.

So the "people" of the ruler to come describes not a population but an army. And that's precisely how Jesus described it in Luke 21, as an "army" surrounding Jerusalem.

Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near."

Therefore, I believe Daniel's "people of the ruler to come" is the "Abomination of Desolation," spoken of in the Dan 9.27. These "people" were "armies."

 

[Truth7t7]

Right--never said the "he" is a Roman Army. The Roman Army is the "people" of the ruler to come. The ruler, I indicated, is the Roman leadership, perhaps the general or generals who would lead in this invasion.

In the case of the 66-70 AD war, there were two generals who led the way for the Roman Army. We often think of the "people" as a population. But in this case, we are talking about a battle for a city and about the destruction of the sanctuary--just as Jesus described it.

So the "people" of the ruler to come describes not a population but an army. And that's precisely how Jesus described it in Luke 21, as an "army" surrounding Jerusalem.

Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near."

Therefore, I believe Daniel's "people of the ruler to come" is the "Abomination of Desolation," spoken of in the Dan 9.27. These "people" were "armies."

"Once again" you believe the Roman armies in 70AD fulfilled Daniel 9:27 below, this is impossible because the "He" that causes this Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth until the future "Consummation", please focus on "He" "Desolation" and "Consummation" and your claim this took place in 70AD?

The "He" below that causes "Desolation" will be present on earth until the "Consummation" (The End) something your silent on in response "why"?

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Randy Kluth]

"Once again" you believe the Roman armies in 70AD fulfilled Daniel 9:27 below, this is impossible because the "He" that causes this Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth until the future "Consummation", please focus on "He" "Desolation" and "Consummation" and your claim this took place in 70AD?

The "He" below that causes "Desolation" will be present on earth until the "Consummation" (The End) something your silent on in response "why"?

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Yes, I'll focus on the fact the "People" of the Ruler to Come are the Roman Army who destroy the city and the sanctuary, causing desolation until the consummation. Jesus said the exact same thing, that what would happen to Jerusalem in his generation would cause Israel to be scattered until his Return at the end of the age.

Luke 21.23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

What this is saying is that Jerusalem would be desolated by the Romans, which did take place in 70 AD, and would lead to an age-long exile of the Jewish People. And this would last until Jesus' Return at the end of the age. Indeed, the Jewish Diaspora has existed all through NT history, as anybody who knows world history recognizes.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus only made reconciliation for iniquity but on a personal level. Dan. 9:24 specifically states that it was for his people, the nation of Israel to do.

Dan 9.24 24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

What things were for "the nation of Israel to do?" It was Christ who brought Sin in Israel to an end in his generation by judging Israel, by destroying their temple worship and by exiling them out of the land and into other lands. This is how God commonly put an end to gross sin in Israel in the OT, by delivering the rebellious people over to their enemies and by transporting them out of the land to give the land rest!

Lev 26.32 I myself will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins. 34 Then the land will enjoy its sabbath years all the time that it lies desolate and you are in the country of your enemies; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 All the time that it lies desolate, the land will have the rest it did not have during the sabbaths you lived in it.

Christ came to Israel to begin judgment with the People of God, Israel. He not only brought Eternal Salvation for the believing, but also intense judgment for the rebellious. He came to desolate Israel so that Salvation would come to the Gentiles, to sinners who were ignorant and not in rebellion, as Israel was. If God had given mercy to Israel, then He would also extend His grace to other lands and peoples.

This was therefore the time of Christ's 1st Coming, when these things began to take place. This was not completely fulfilled as if it indicated the end of the age and the 2nd Coming!

The gap is right in the text itself. Jesus dies and ends the 69th week, temple is destroyed 40 yrs. later and sometime "after" that a prince makes a covenant w/ the many of Israel, this not a religious covenant is just a word meaning a pact or a treaty. So there is a minimum of at least a 40 yr. gap.

No, this so-called "gap" is not given at all--it is being assumed by you and by others, because it otherwise doesn't fit your narrative. Without express indication of a "gap," it must be read quite differently.

The 70 Weeks result in the 1st Coming of Christ to desolate Israel. It begins with Christ being "cut off," and ends 40 years later--well after the finish of the 70 Weeks, with the desolation of Jerusalem and the temple by the Romans.

The Abomination of Desolation is not part of the 70 Weeks period, therefore. It *follows," logically, after the death of Christ and the termination of the 70 Weeks period. The 70 Weeks end with the death of Christ in the midst of the 70th Week. The 70th Week ends in just half of a full Week, but it nevertheless is the "70th Week."

We probably are not going to agree on this, but I wish no acrimony. We are just describing and explaining our different views. That's okay.

 

[Trekson]

You can be wrong on things you have that right. But it sounds more like someone that got destroyed ad he can't rebut, so he just runs away from the debate. Its a little bit lazy tbh.

No, you're just so far off it would take more time than I want to invest in a conversation which apparently you will ignore anyway, so what's the point?

 

[Trekson]

Dan 9.24 24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

What things were for "the nation of Israel to do?" It was Christ who brought Sin in Israel to an end in his generation by judging Israel, by destroying their temple worship and by exiling them out of the land and into other lands. This is how God commonly put an end to gross sin in Israel in the OT, by delivering the rebellious people over to their enemies and by transporting them out of the land to give the land rest!

Lev 26.32 I myself will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins. 34 Then the land will enjoy its sabbath years all the time that it lies desolate and you are in the country of your enemies; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 All the time that it lies desolate, the land will have the rest it did not have during the sabbaths you lived in it.

Christ came to Israel to begin judgment with the People of God, Israel. He not only brought Eternal Salvation for the believing, but also intense judgment for the rebellious. He came to desolate Israel so that Salvation would come to the Gentiles, to sinners who were ignorant and not in rebellion, as Israel was. If God had given mercy to Israel, then He would also extend His grace to other lands and peoples.

This was therefore the time of Christ's 1st Coming, when these things began to take place. This was not completely fulfilled as if it indicated the end of the age and the 2nd Coming!

No, this so-called "gap" is not given at all--it is being assumed by you and by others, because it otherwise doesn't fit your narrative. Without express indication of a "gap," it must be read quite differently.

The 70 Weeks result in the 1st Coming of Christ to desolate Israel. It begins with Christ being "cut off," and ends 40 years later--well after the finish of the 70 Weeks, with the desolation of Jerusalem and the temple by the Romans.

The Abomination of Desolation is not part of the 70 Weeks period, therefore. It *follows," logically, after the death of Christ and the termination of the 70 Weeks period. The 70 Weeks end with the death of Christ in the midst of the 70th Week. The 70th Week ends in just half of a full Week, but it nevertheless is the "70th Week."

We probably are not going to agree on this, but I wish no acrimony. We are just describing and explaining our different views. That's okay. for true understanding you have to put the word national in