Proof that Jesus is God

[Wrangler]

In John 20:17 Jesus, in the image of man, tells us who his Father is. It is not Joseph.
.

So, you are denying Jesus said he is going to his God huh?

John 20:17
The Voice

Jesus: 17 Mary, you cannot hold Me. I must rise above this world to be with My Father, who is also your Father; My God, who is also your God. Go tell this to all My brothers.

 

[Wrangler]

There’s no mystery there. Philippians 2, Jesus emptied Himself to leave the form of God He had by His very nature, and TOOK the form of a man, and humble servant.

As a man on earth, the Father, who is God, is His God, too.

Which does not negate the fact that Jesus is God the Logos, by His very nature.

Classic appeal to dualism. Nowhere in Scripture does it say Jesus was in the form of a man.

 

[Cooper]

One thing iv noticed in all these debates is that one can take a passage literally or metaphorically.
Maybe its metaphorical when he says his the son of God...
I personally don't understand the trinity or how Jesus can be God either. So many unanswered questions remain.

So, you are denying Jesus said he is going to his God huh?

John 20:17
The Voice

Jesus: 17 Mary, you cannot hold Me. I must rise above this world to be with My Father, who is also your Father; My God, who is also your God. Go tell this to all My brothers.

No. it is true. That is what God incarnate said, and that is what God incarnate meant.
.

 

[Cooper]

Classic appeal to dualism. Nowhere in Scripture does it say Jesus was in the form of a man.

What do you mean, Jesus was not in the form of man?.
.

 

[Wrangler]

No. it is true. That is what God incarnate said, and that is what God incarnate meant.
.

LOL. Nowhere does Scripture say God incarnate. To your way of thinking, it makes sense for God incarnate to go to his God?

 

[Wrangler]

What do you mean, Jesus was not in the form of man?.
.

I mean Jesus was a man and is a man and only a man and not anything else masquerading as a man.

Acts 17:31
The Voice

31 He has fixed a day of accountability, when the whole world will be justly evaluated by a new, higher standard: not by a statue, but by a living man. God selected this man and made Him credible to all by raising Him from the dead.

 

[Cooper]

LOL. Nowhere does Scripture say God incarnate. To your way of thinking, it makes sense for God incarnate to go to his God?

The Latin verb incarnare meant “to make flesh.” When we say that Jesus Christ is God “Incarnate,” we mean that the Son of God took on a fleshly, bodily form (John 1:14). However, when this happened in the womb of Mary, Jesus’ earthly mother, He did not stop being deity. Although Jesus became fully human (Hebrews 2:17), He retained His status as God (John 1:1, 14). How Jesus is able to be both man and God simultaneously is one of the great mysteries of Christianity but is nevertheless a test of orthodoxy (1 John 4:2; 2 John 1:7). Jesus has two distinct natures, divine and human. “Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me” (John 14:11).

The Bible clearly teaches the deity of Christ by presenting His fulfillment of numerous Old Testament prophecies (Isaiah 7:14; Psalm 2:7), His eternal existence (John 1:1–3; John 8:58), His miraculous virgin birth (Luke 1:26–31), His miracles (Matthew 9:24–25), His authority to forgive sin (Matthew 9:6), His acceptance of worship (Matthew 14:33), His ability to predict the future (Matthew 24:1–2), and His resurrection from the dead (Luke 24:36–39). The writer of Hebrews tells us Jesus is superior to angels (Hebrews 1:4–5) and angels are to worship Him (Hebrews 1:6).

The Bible also teaches the Incarnation—Jesus became fully human by taking on human flesh. Jesus was conceived in the womb and was born (Luke 2:7), He experienced normal aging (Luke 2:40), He had natural physical needs (John 19:28) and human emotions (Matthew 26:38), He learned (Luke 2:52), He died a physical death (Luke 23:46), and He was resurrected with a physical body (Luke 24:39). Jesus was human in every way except for sin; He lived a completely sinless life (Hebrews 4:15).

When Christ took on the form of a human, His nature did not change, but His position did. Jesus, in His original nature of God in spirit form, humbled Himself by laying aside His glory and privileges (Philippians 2:6–8). God can never stop being God because He is immutable (Hebrews 13:8) and infinite (Revelation 1:8). If Jesus stopped being fully God for even a split second, all life would die (see Acts 17:28). The doctrine of the Incarnation says that Jesus, while remaining fully God, became fully man.

What does "incarnate" mean? How was Jesus God incarnate? | GotQuestions.org

 

[NayborBear]

So the one Lord Jesus is not the Lord God commanding Adam in Gen 2. The one Lord Jesus is not the Lord God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob (Gen 28:13). The one Lord Jesus is not the Lord that is God (Deut 4:35,39) (Josh 22). The one Lord Jesus is not the Lord whom God told Moses I am the Lord. (Exodus 6:2)

Clearly the Lord of the Old Covenant is God. The God of Abraham, But the One Lord Jesus of the New Covenant is not that Lord of the Old, Who is God.

And so, how many Lord's of Scripture are there? It's a simple question. Just plain grammar. Who is the Lord of the Old Covenant, but is not the One Lord of the New?

You see? The Living Word which is Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the same Living Word that is and was and is to come, that is Jesus' Father AND GOD as well! This same Living Word, was, and IS Jesus Christ, Was and IS the God of the Old Covenant, but in a more "governmental structure", or as Paul said concerning the "Gift of the Holy Spirit?", "different ministrations, or "applications" of this same Living Word! EACH of these different "applications" of the Living Word, is as MUCH God, as the Father who "gives" the Gift of this same Living Word (aka Holy Spirit), as well as "Spiritual Gifts" to whomever "It/He" will for to "profit" not only that one, or ones, Spiritual maturity, but also to help (feed) others towards THEIR Spiritual maturity. As God, this same Living Word, DRAWS one TO Jesus Christ which is ALSO this SAME Living Word. Just a different "ministration", or "application", or one COULD safely discern? This SAME Living Word, ALL with different "parameters" which makes them as DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT from each other as far as IDENTITY, or Title/s, or Offices are concerned! Yet ALL having the SAME PURPOSE! And ALL BEING this SAME Living Word!

Take for example (of truth btw)
Elohim occurs 2.700 times. Its first occurrence connects it with creation, and give it its essential meaning as the Creator. It indicates His relation to mankind as His creatures (see note on 2 Chron. 18:31, where it stands in contrast with Jehovah as indicating covenant relationship). 'Elohim is God the Son, the living "WORD" with creature form to create (John 1:1. Col. 1:15-17. Rev. 3:14); and later, (note the differing minstration?) with human form to redeem (John 1:14). "Begotten of His Father before all worlds; born of His mother, in the world." In this creature form He appeared to the Patriarchs, a form not temporarily assumed. 'Elohim is indicated (as in A.V.) by ordinary small type, "God".

Another?

Jehovah. While Elohim is God as the Creator of all things, Jehovah is the same God in covenant relation to those whom He has created (Cp. 2Chron. 18:31). Jehovah means the Eternal, the Immutable One, He Who WAS, and IS, and IS TO COME. The Divine definition is given in Gen. 21:33. He is especially, therefore, the God of Israel; and the God of those who are redeemed, and are thus now "in Christ". We can say "My God," but not "My Jehovah", for Jehovah is "MY God."

Jehovah is indicated (as in A.V.) by small capital letters, "LORD"' and by "GOD" when it occurs in combination with Adonai, in which case LORD GOD = Adonai Jehovah. The name Jehovah is combined with ten other words, which form what are known as "the Jehovah Titles." in the Hebrew Canon (Ap. 1). All are noted in the margin, in all their occurrences:--

1. JEHOVAH-JIREH = Jehovah will see, or provide. Gen. 22:14.
2. JEHOVAH-ROPHEKA = Jehovah that healeth thee. Ex. 15:26.
3. JEHOVAH-NISSI = Jehovah my banner. Ex. 17:15.
4. JEHOVAH-MeKADDISHKEM = Jehovah that doth sanctify you. Ex. 31:13. Lev. 20:8; 21:8; 22:32. Ezek. 20:12.
5. JEHOVAH-SHALOM = Jehovah [send] peace. Judg. 6:24.
6. JEHOVAH-ZeBA'OTH = Jehovah of hosts. 1Sam. 1:3, and frequently.
7. JEHOVAH-ZIDKENU = Jehovah our righteousness. Jer. 23:6; 33:16.
8. JEHOVAH-SHAMMAH = Jehovah is there. Ezek. 48:35.
9. JEHOVAH-ELYON = Jehovah most high. Ps. 7:17; 47:2; 97:9.
10. JEHOVAH-RO'I = Jehovah my Shepherd. Ps. 23:1.

Jah (Yah) is Jehovah in a special sense and relation. Jehovah as having BECOME our Salvation (first occ. Ex. 15:2), He Who IS, and WAS, and IS TO COME. It occurs 49 times. Jah is Jehovah in a special sense and relation. Jehovah as having BECOME our Salvation (first occ. Ex. 15:2), He Who IS, and WAS, and IS TO COME. It occurs 49 times. Compare Psalm 68. 4, 18.

EL is essentially the Almighty, though the word is never so rendered (see below, "Shaddai"). EL is Elohim in all His strength and power. It is rendered "God" as Elohim is, but El is God the Omnipotent. Elohim is God the Creator putting His omnipotence into operation. Eloah (see below) is God Who wills and orders all, and Who is to be the one object of the worship of His people. El is the God Who knows all (first occ. Gen. 14:18:22) and sees all (Gen. 16:13) and that performeth all things for His people (Ps. 57:2); and in Whom all the Divine attributes are concentrated.
El is indicated in older KJV's by type in large capital letters, thus: "GOD." It is sometimes transliterated in proper names Immanue-'el, Beth-'el, &c., where it is translated,

Eloah is Elohim, Who is to be worshipped. Eloah is God in connection with His Will rather than His power. The first occurrence associates this name with worship (Deut. 32:15, 17). Hence it is the title used whenever the contrast (latent or expressed) is with false gods or idols. Eloah is essentially "the living God" in contrast to inanimate idols. Eloah is rendered "God", but in older KJV's is indicated it by type thus: (in fanciful calligraphic type) GOD.

Elyon first occurs in Gen. 14:18 with El, and is rendered "the most high (God)". It is El and Elohim, not as the powerful Creator, but as "the possessor of heaven and earth." Hence the name is associated with Christ as the Son of "the Highest" (Luke 1:35). It is Elyon, as possessor of the earth, Who divides the nations "their inheritance". In Ps. 83:18, He is "over all the earth". The title occurs 36 times (6 x 6 or 6(squared))
Elyon is the Dispenser of God's blessings in the earth; the blessings proceeding from a Priest Who is a King upon His throne (cp. Gen. 14:18-22 with Zech. 6:13; 14:9).

Shaddai is in every instance translated "Almighty", and is indicated by small capital letters ("ALMIGHTY"). It is God (El), not as the source of strength, but of grace; not as Creator, but as the Giver. Shaddai is the All-bountiful. This title does not refer to His creative power, but to His power to supply all the needs of His people. Its first occurrence is in Gen. 17:1, and is used to show Abraham that He Who called him out to walk alone before Him could supply all his need. Even so it is the title used in 2Cor. 6:18, where we are called and led to "come out" in separation from the world. It is always used in connection with El (see above).

ALL these ARE as MUCH the Living Word as Christ Jesus is!
But? It REQUIRES "Spiritual Discernment" in order to ASCERTAIN the differences!

For it is when one doesn't? Because it seems like so much folly? IOW? How CAN this be?

Is when THIS happens!:

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as GOD ALONE sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[keithr]

Hebrews 1 only makes sense if Jesus is God's only begotten son. Hebrews 1 (WEB):

1) God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

Were the prophets God? No.​

2) has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.

Was his son God? Likewise no. God made the universe through His son - he had Jesus perform the creation according to His design, but it was still God's creation. However, after God resurrected Jesus to life again, God has blessed Jesus with an immortal nature and He has given His creation to Jesus as an inheritance, from father to son.​

3) His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, who, when he had by himself purified us of our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Jesus now has the same divine nature as God (previously he was not immortal, which is why he was able to die for mankind). He is now sat down at God's right hand (he is not God, the Majesty on high, but he is God's 'right-hand man').​

4) having become so much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have.

Jesus has now become so much better than the angels (he was better before, for he created them, but he is now much better, having become immortal, and given by God all authority and power over God's creation). Regarding Jesus' more excellent name, Philippians 2:9-11 says "Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

5) For to which of the angels did he say at any time, “You are my Son. Today I have become your father?” and again, “I will be to him a Father, and he will be to me a Son?”

Only Jesus is God's only-begotten son. Jesus was begotten as God's firstborn son of his new creation (of which we are also begotten at our baptism) at his baptism, when as recorded in Matthew 3:17, Behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”​

6) When he again brings in the firstborn into the world he says, “Let all the angels of God worship him.”

Jesus was the firstborn of all God's creation (Colossians 1:15). It is now right, according to God, for all angels and all men to worship Jesus, as well as worshiping God.​

7) Of the angels he says, “Who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire.”
8) But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your Kingdom.
9) You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.”

God refers to Jesus as a god - 'god' means a mighty one. Jesus is truly a mighty one, but God is still his god. God has annointed Jesus with more gladness (exultation, exceeding triumphant joy) than anyone else.​

10) And, “You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands.

God confirms again that He had Jesus create the universe.​

11) They will perish, but you continue. They all will grow old like a garment does.

The universe will decay over time, but Jesus won't.​

12) You will roll them up like a mantle, and they will be changed; but you are the same. Your years will not fail.”

For Jesus is now immortal, like God is.​

13) But which of the angels has he told at any time, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet?”

Only Jesus sits at God's right hand, while God overcomes Jesus' enemies (alhough He may use Jesus to overcome them).​

14) Aren’t they all serving spirits, sent out to do service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

1 John 4:9 (WEB):
9) By this God’s love was revealed in us, that God has sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
10) In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
11) Beloved, if God loved us in this way, we also ought to love one another.
12) No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God remains in us, and his love has been perfected in us.
13) By this we know that we remain in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
14) We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.
15) Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him, and he in God.

 

[robert derrick]

The risen Jesus accepted the worship of the apostles, who fell at His feet and worshipped Him.

If Jesus is not God the Word, then He sinned by accepting their worship.

Throughout the New Testament, the apostles instantly stopped those who started to worship them, but Jesus accepted it.

Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

Mat 28:8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.

Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

True Blue most excellent Theophilus: Another point of proof of Scripture. And worship truly is the heart of it all.

For even the angels who are indeed the created spirit beings, that the naysayers are trying to make of Jesus, refused worship: "See thou do it not" (Rev 19:10. 22:9)

Matthew 4:10: when the devil, the created being and archangel Lucifer tried to get Jesus to bow down and worship him, the Lord responded "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

The Lord thy God is the Lord Jesus, because there is One Lord that we shall worship: Jesus

If Jesus is a created being and so not the Lord our God, then He is not to be worshipped, as He said so Himself. And the unbelievers are correct in not worshipping Him, because they cannot lest they worship angles and other creatures rather than the Creator. (Rom 1)(Heb 1) But of course Jesus is the Creator. (Col 1:16)

And we can now add service to the list of proofs: The Lord thy God is the only One to serve, and whom are we to serve? Yep, Jesus.

"And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ." (Col 3) The Lord is the Lord Christ, the Lord our God Whom only shall we serve.

And what would the Jehovaticks have to say? What the Scripture is plainly saying is not what it is really saying, and a very very very careful look at the Greek, will enlighten you with the help of Apollos, as with us. And if that doesn't pan out, then they default to the greatest of all non-answers: the Scripture is once again being: figurative.

Honestly brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus, when they fell so low as to try and pull a stunt like that, then that is when they utterly exposed themselves as a petulant and childish people not at all to be taken seriously. And it is foolishness to try.


And you could almost say that the Lord was actually giving the devil a chance to repent, by speaking to him directly and telling him thou shall worship the Lord. God does the same with the unrepentant at the last minute so to speak before returning for war (Rev 14:6)

 

[Wrangler]

The Latin verb incarnare meant “to make flesh.” When we say that Jesus Christ is God “Incarnate,” we mean that the Son of God took on a fleshly, bodily form (John 1:14).

And that is incorrect as Scripture says the Word of God became flesh. This is not God incarnate but fulfills Deutoronomy 18:15-18, a man will be selected and God will put his words in his mouth.

Jesus says this Himself at John 12:49.

 

[robert derrick]

In Revelation 1:17, and 22:13, Jesus Christ says of Himself, "I am the first and the last". What does He mean by these words? The Unitarian Greek scholar, Dr Joseph Thayer, in his Greek lexicon, says of these words:

"with the article: ὁ πρῶτος καί ὁ ἔσχατος, i. e. the eternal One, Rev.1:17; Rev.2:8; Rev.22:13"

Jesus Christ IS "The Eternal One", which means that He is UNCREATED, and must be Almighty God! Interestingly, in the Greek Version of the OT, the LXX, in Exodus 3:14, which is Spoken by "The Angle of YHWH" (not God the Father), to Moses, it reads, "Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", "I am The Eternal One". The Hebrew for YHWH is יְהֹוָה, which means "the absolute and unchangeable One, the existing, ever living, as self-consistent"! This is Jesus Christ.

In Revelation 3:14, Jesus says of Himself:

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God"

On the word "beginning", ἀρχή, Dr Thayer says, "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause". Which means that Jesus Christ IS The ACTIVE Creator of the entire universe!

In Acts 3:15, we read of Jesus Christ, "And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses"

The word "Prince" is not right here, the Greek is "ἀρχηγός", which Thayer says means "the author". That the "from Whom all life has its origin", as John says in his Gospel "In Him was life" (1:4)

In Titus 2:13, Paul says of Jesus Christ:

"looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ"

On this we have another Unitarian Greek scholar, Dr George Winer, who says:

"In the above remarks it was not my intention to deny that, in point of grammar, σωτηρος ημων (our Saviour) may be regarded as a second
predicate, jointly dependent on the article του (the); but the dogmatic conviction derived from Paul's writings that thisapostle cannot have
called Christ the great God induced me to show that thereis no grammatical obstacle to our taking the clause και σω...Χριστoυ (from,'and to Christ') by itself as referring to a second subject" (A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p.162. 1877 edition. - words in brackets are mine)

What Dr Winer is saying here, is, according the the Greek grammar used by Paul here, Jesus Christ is called "The Great God", and "Saviour", One Person, and not two. However, because he was a Unitarian, who denied the Deity of Jesus Christ, his "theology" could not allow him to see Paul calling Jesus Christ, "The Great God"!

In John 1:1, we read; "εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος"

"In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and the Word was God"

Here in the first place, "beginning" is not Genesis 1:1, as in the beginning of The Creation, as Creation is only mentioned in John 1:3. This refers to "eternity past", when "The Word", Who is the Lord Jesus Christ, Who "becomes flesh" in John 1:14, has always existed.

When then read that "The Word", was WITH "The God". Here "ο λογος" (the Word) is DISTINCT from "τον θεον" (The God), which is very clearly shown by the use of the Greek preposition, "προς" (with), which actually means, "at the side of, near, towards, in the presense of". Which cannot mean that "The Word" is IDENTICAL to "The God"!

John goes on to say, "και θεος ην ο λογος" (literally, "and God was The Word"). However, because "The Word" here is the subject, and "God" is in the predicate, the order is rightly, "and The Word was God". The predicate is used as a "description" of the subject, that "The Word IS God". However, by very careful Greek grammar, John does not write, "και ο θεος ην ο λογος", repeating the Greek article "ο". This would have made "The Word" and "The God", convertable and IDENTICAL in Person to "The God", in the previous sentence. John is saying here, that "The Word", IS as much as "God", WITH Whom He was!

And so you are saying that Jesus being the beginning, does not mean that Jesus began in the beginning, as a begun being for the beginning of God's creation? (You see what twisted junk you have to think through to think Jesus was created...)

But rather that Jesus began the beginning as Creator. 'I am the beginning' means: I am the One who actively began all creation. Which of course 'by Him were all things created' would confirm this reading as accurate. And if He began all creation in the beginning of creation, then He is the Creator, and not a creation Himself.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Including Himself. Jesus was not made by God, because nothing was made without Jesus already being there...

It really is simple grammatical reading and logic. And while original languages are not necessary for proving the first principles, such as Jesus is God the Creator come in the flesh, such deeper study can confirm what we already know to be true by siomple reading of Scripture in our own language.

Great work Gracie

 

[Cooper]

And that is incorrect as Scripture says the Word of God became flesh. This is not God incarnate but fulfills Deutoronomy 18:15-18, a man will be selected and God will put his words in his mouth.

Jesus says this Himself at John 12:49.

God became flesh and the angel said to call his name Jesus.
.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

My point was that it could just be a metaphor

no

 

[robert derrick]

One thing iv noticed in all these debates is that one can take a passage literally or metaphorically.
Maybe its metaphorical when he says his the son of God...
I personally don't understand the trinity or how Jesus can be God either. So many unanswered questions remain.

The Word was God. Take that literally and go from there. Do a reset.

 

[robert derrick]

One thing iv noticed in all these debates is that one can take a passage literally or metaphorically.
Maybe its metaphorical when he says his the son of God...
I personally don't understand the trinity or how Jesus can be God either. So many unanswered questions remain.

One thing I've noticed is that some will take a literal scripture and make it metaphorical (figurative), when they want to make it mean something else than is plainly written, because they want it to stop rebuking what they want to believe.

I.e. choosing Scripture to be literal or metaphorical for convenience is the last gasp of serious rubbish by an unserious person.

And your 'maybe' Scripture is metaphorical about Jesus being the Son of God, is proof in point of the poison of figurative efforts.

"This wisdom descends not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish." (James 3)
"...by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (Rom 16:18)

I.e. they can be as polite and sweet as a fully bloomed rose, with sincerity of the highest order to help enlighten you, but their tongues are that of asps (Rom 3), and their thorns will drain you of Jesus' blood. And no wonder, for Satan himself comes as an angel of light. (2 Cor 11)

Look at yourself. The unbelievers of Jesus are the only ones trying to introduce 'metaphor' into Scripture of obvious literal meaning. You are now confused. To the point where you say Jesus may only be the Son of God, figuratively.

Nice work Jehovaites. Your reward waits.

 

[robert derrick]

no

I have never met a more perfect answer in my life.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

Unfortunately, I love to hear myself talk and see what I've written far too much, to be as perfectly succinct as you.

(See what I mean?)

 

[Wrangler]

God became flesh
.

Again, that is not what Scripture says

 

[robert derrick]

People like to have things in black and white or understood perfect and clear even though Apostle Paul did not see them so clearly himself. People usually have great respect for Paul but they often won't stand with him if it goes against their own position/belief!

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Certainly in context of our hope of final destination of heaven, were we shall fully know as we are fully known.

But certainly not in context of plainly written Scripture that has no unclear understanding, but rather is believed or not.

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD." (Deut 6) "God spoke unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD" (Ex 6) There is one Lord (Eph 4). "Jesus is the Lord" (I Cor 12)

The only muddying of the waters is when certain ones sneak in purposely trying to find a 'metaphor', where literal is the only option. At that time they don't like the 'black and white', but rather the murky grey. Because they don't like the faith that plainly written Scripture commands.

The Lord our God is one Lord: Jesus is the Lord. SO simple a child can understand it. Only an unbeliever of Jesus would even attempt to say otherwise.

"It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto you in order, most excellent Theophilus, That you might know the certainty of those things, wherein you have been instructed." (Luke 1)

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

And so you are saying that Jesus being the beginning, does not mean that Jesus began in the beginning, as a begun being for the beginning of God's creation? (You see what twisted junk you have to think through to think Jesus was created...)

But rather that Jesus began the beginning as Creator. 'I am the beginning' means: I am the One who actively began all creation. Which of course 'by Him were all things created' would confirm this reading as accurate. And if He began all creation in the beginning of creation, then He is the Creator, and not a creation Himself.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Including Himself. Jesus was not made by God, because nothing was made without Jesus already being there...

It really is simple grammatical reading and logic. And while original languages are not necessary for proving the first principles, such as Jesus is God the Creator come in the flesh, such deeper study can confirm what we already know to be true by siomple reading of Scripture in our own language.

Great work Gracie

this is what I clearly wrote, "Which means that Jesus Christ IS The ACTIVE Creator of the entire universe!" Not that Jesus was ever created.