Proof that Jesus is God

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Cooper

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It sure sounds like you are of the Unitarian persuasion!

Inasmuch as you are giving Christ ALL the credit, while robbing His Father and God of ANY SUBSTANCE WHATSOEVER!
Certainly NOT an aspiration I would want to subscribe to!
But? "Hopeless Romantics" would!
Yep? Misguided, polluted, corrupted, and misplaced agape love can!
I thought Unitarians gave Christ little or no credit for anything. They worship Yahweh.

As a Christian, I give Christ all the honour and glory.
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amadeus

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I cannot imagine someone with a pure heart, cussing and swearing like the wicked. Me thinks you worry too much, mind you, none of us are angels. :)
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Of course it is not necessarily the actual words spoken as it is what is in our heart that causes the words to be spoken. God knows and won't judge us too harshly if we are sincere and working at it... but we must be working at it. I cannot work at it for anyone else.

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:36-37
 

NayborBear

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I thought Unitarians gave Christ little or no credit for anything. They worship Yahweh.

As a Christian, I give Christ all the honour and glory.
.

The way I sees it? Believing in and accepting Christ is the only CORRECT starting point of proceeding unto the Father in Heaven!

So, in my reckoning? Giving all credit to the Son, or to the Father is unitarian!

By giving honor unto the Father by honoring His Only begotten?
Is doing just that! Giving honor. Which is a very good thing to do! To be certain!
Is not the same as coming or going unto the Father!
 

Wrangler

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Somebody referred to 'The man is God thesis'... What in the world is that? Whoever said that, I would like to know what they are talking about?

I referred to 'The man is God thesis' and what I am referring to is the following contradiction.

Now, the man Christ Jesus is God

What's odd is that you flip idolatry on its head. The man-is-God thesis is a man made thesis from the 4th century. The Bible says 1,000's of times in using singular pronouns that God is singular and only the Father is God. See all the epistles prologue.


I am Adonai; there is no other; besides me there is no God.
Isaiah 45:5 (CJB)

'For us, there is one God—the Father'
1 Corinthians 8:6

3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is the Messiah, and the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of the Messiah is God.
1 Corinthians 11:3

No one has ever seen God. The only-begotten Son, who is close to the Father’s side, has made him known. John 1:18 (EHV)
 

robert derrick

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Who is Jehovah Jesus? There is no such name mentioned in the Bible - you're making it up!



(Eph 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(Eph 4:6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God (Yahweh) is God of all and father of all. Jesus said in John 20:17, "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God". Just as Yahweh is our God and father, so Jesus said Yahweh was his God and father. So Jesus is clearly not God! It can't get much simpler and clearer than that.

Ephesians 4:5 tells us there is just one Lord, but verse 6 tells us that just as there is just one Lord, one faith, one baptism, that there is also just one God, who is father of all, including the father of Jesus. Therefore Jesus cannot be God. This is plain and simple. I suspect from what you have written in this and other posts, that you are confused by Bible translations that refer to LORD and Lord. You have quoted Luke 10:21 where Jesus refers to his Father (God) as "Lord of heaven and earth", and then because Jesus is refered to as Lord you think he was talking to or refering to himself - but he wasn't.

You appear to be equating references to LORD and Lord, thinking that they are refering to the same thing/person. They're not. When the english translations use the word LORD it's actually God's name, Yahweh, which they are hiding by translating it as LORD rather than Yahweh. The word Lord used in the new testament of Jesus is not God's name, it is the Greek word kurios which means lord, master or sir.

So when Psalm 110:1 is quoted in the New Testament, in Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:42 and Acts 2:34:

(Psa 110:1) A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.​

The first LORD is God's name, Yahweh, and the second Lord is the Hebrew word 'adon', which means lord, master, owner or sir. It is David being prophetic of God saying to Jesus, "Sit at my right hand", as Peter explains at Pentecost (Acts 2:32-36 WEB):

32) This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses.
33) Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.
34) For David didn’t ascend into the heavens, but he says himself, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit by my right hand,
35) until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’
36) “Let all the house of Israel therefore know certainly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

(Note that Jesus only received the Holy Spirit after his resurrection.)
Yeah, just tweaking the Jehovaites who worship their title 'Jehovah', and don't want Jesus anywhere near Him. Not even Jesus' name. That would be blasphemy. But He's already been crucified for that once, so you don't get a2nd shot at it.

Jehovah Jesus. Jesus Jehovah. Jesus the true Jehovah.
 

Cooper

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The way I sees it? Believing in and accepting Christ is the only CORRECT starting point of proceeding unto the Father in Heaven!

So, in my reckoning? Giving all credit to the Son, or to the Father is unitarian!

By giving honor unto the Father by honoring His Only begotten?
Is doing just that! Giving honor. Which is a very good thing to do! To be certain!
Is not the same as coming or going unto the Father!
The way I sees it? Believing in and accepting Christ is the only CORRECT starting point of proceeding unto the Father in Heaven!

So, in my reckoning? Giving all credit to the Son, or to the Father is unitarian!

By giving honor unto the Father by honoring His Only begotten?
Is doing just that! Giving honor. Which is a very good thing to do! To be certain!
Is not the same as coming or going unto the Father!

If I praise the name of Jesus, guess who I am worshiping...

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6 KJV)

God with us.
.
 

tigger 2

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If I praise the name of Jesus, guess who I am worshiping...

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6 KJV)

God with us.
.

There are at least two other ways this personal name has been interpreted by reputable Bible scholars. (1) The titles within the name (e.g., “Mighty God”) are intended in their secondary, subordinate senses (e.g., “a mighty god”). (2) the titles within the name are meant to praise God the Father, not the Messiah.
....

And second, another way competent Bible scholars have interpreted the meaning of this name is with the understanding that it (as with many, if not most, of the other Israelites’ personal names) does not apply directly to the Messiah (as we can see with “Elijah,” “Abijah,” etc.) but is, instead, a statement praising the Father, Jehovah God.

Personal names in the ancient Hebrew and Greek are often somewhat cryptic to us today. The English Bible translator must fill in the missing minor words (especially in names composed of two or more Hebrew words) such as “my,” “is,” “of,” etc. in whatever way he thinks best in order to make sense for us today in English.

For instance, two of the best Bible concordances (Young’s and Strong’s) and a popular trinitarian Bible dictionary (Today’s Dictionary of the Bible) differ greatly on the exact meaning of many Biblical personal names because of those “minor” words which must be added to bring out the intended meaning.

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, for example, says the name “Elimelech” (which is literally just “God King”) means “God of (the) King.” Young’s Analytical Concordance says it means “God is King.” Today’s Dictionary of the Bible says it means “ God his king” - p. 206, Bethany House Publ., 1982.

Those missing minor words that the translator must supply at his own discretion can often make a vital difference! - For example, the footnote for Gen. 17:5 in The NIV Study Bible: The name ‘Abram’ “means ‘Exalted Father,’ probably in reference to God (i.e., ‘[God is the] Exalted Father’).” - bracketed information is in the original.

This is why another name the Messiah is to be called by at Jer. 23:6 is rendered, `The LORD [YHWH] IS Our Righteousness' in the following Bibles: RSV; NRSV; NEB; NJB; JPS (Margolis, ed.); Tanakh; Byington; AT; and ASV (footnote). Of course other translations render it more literally by calling the Messiah "The LORD [YHWH] Our Righteousness" to help support a `Jesus is God' doctrine. Some of these (such as the NASB) actually render the very same name at Jer. 33:16 as "The LORD [or Jehovah] is Our Righteousness"! - [bracketed information is mine].

(Unfortunately for "Jesus is Jehovah" advocates, the very same name given to the Messiah at Jer. 23:16 is given to a city at Jer. 33:16.)

Therefore, the personal name at Is. 9:6 has been honestly translated in the footnote as:

“And his name is called: Wonderful in counsel IS God the Mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace” - The Holy Scriptures, JPS Version (Margolis, ed.)

to show that it is intended to praise the God of the Messiah who performs great things through the Messiah.

Also, An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed) says:

“Wonderful Counselor IS God Almighty, Father forever, Prince of Peace.”

From the Is. 9:6 footnote in the trinity-supporting NET Bible:

".... some have suggested that one to three of the titles that follow ['called'] refer to God, not the king. For example, the traditional punctuation of the Hebrew text suggests the translation, 'and the Extraordinary Strategist, the Mighty God calls his name, "Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."'"

And The Leeser Bible has:

“Wonderful, counsellor of the mighty God, of the everlasting Father, the prince of peace”

Of course it could also be honestly translated:

“The Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God Is the Everlasting Father of the Prince of Peace.”

And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:

[a] “The Mighty God is planning grace;

The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler.”

This latter translation seems particularly appropriate since it is in the form of a parallelism. Not only was the previous symbolic personal name introduced by Isaiah at Is. 8:1 a parallelism (“Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz” means [a]“quick to the plunder; swift to the spoil” - NIV footnote) but the very introduction to this Messianic name at Is. 9:6 is itself a parallelism: [a]“For unto us a child is born; unto us a son is given.” It would, therefore, be appropriate to find that this name, too, was in the form of a parallelism as translated by the Tanakh above.

So it is clear, even to a number of trinitarian scholars, that Is. 9:6 does not imply that Jesus is Jehovah God.
 

Wrangler

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So it is clear, even to a number of trinitarian scholars, that Is. 9:6 does not imply that Jesus is Jehovah God.

Those who do not differentiate between an explicit teaching from ‘support’ of doctrine already held do not care how weak the ‘support’ is.
 

Cristo Rei

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If Jesus is God then who is Jesus praying to in the garden of Gethsemane before he got arrested???

And who is he speaking to on the cross when he says "why have you abandoned me?"???

And the countless other times that he refers to God as his Father???

Many question marks indeed... Metaphorical??? Literal???

So God makes man infected with sin.
Then he has to send himself or his son to die for our sins.
Thats never made sense to me.

And why does God only appear for such a short time to one small group of people, the Jews???
What about the other 99% of earths population???

Many unanswered questions
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Neither do I believe we are three persons having body, soul and spirit. I am 'one' person with body, soul and spirit, so are you, and the Almighty is one God with body, soul (the Comforter) and spirit. He was the One "God with us."
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explain John 1:1
 

Cooper

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If Jesus is God then who is Jesus praying to in the garden of Gethsemane before he got arrested???

And who is he speaking to on the cross when he says "why have you abandoned me?"???

And the countless other times that he refers to God as his Father???

Many question marks indeed... Metaphorical??? Literal???

So God makes man infected with sin.
Then he has to send himself or his son to die for our sins.
Thats never made sense to me.

And why does God only appear for such a short time to one small group of people, the Jews???
What about the other 99% of earths population???

Many unanswered questions
It doesn't take much working out once you know Jesus was God with us. Sometimes he spoke as a man and sometimes as the Almighty.
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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1,000's of times God is identified as singular pronouns


Ecclesiastes 12:1, "Remember also אֶת־בּוֹרְאֶיךָ your CREATORS", masculine PLURAL

Job 35:10, "But none saith, Where is God עֹשָׂי my MAKERS", masculine PLURAL

Isaiah 54:5, "For עֹשַׂיִךְ your MAKERS is thy husband", masculine PLURAL

Genesis 1:26, "And God said,נַעֲשֶׂה let US make man בְּצַלְמֵנוּ in OUR image, כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ after OUR likeness" masculine PLURAL

Isaiah 6:8, "And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go לָנוּ for US?" masculine PLURAL

THIS is what the Holy Bible clearly Teaches!
 
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