Proof that Jesus is God

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amadeus

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Ok. I'm not sure what I have 'decided' that you have 'not decided', but that's fine by me, so I'll remain decided about my faith in Christ Jesus, and God bless you too in being not decided about your faith in Christ Jesus.

And by the way. I am as old as you most likely, so I am not some young whipper-snapper...
If you looked at my profile you would that I am 77 years old in the flesh. Your profile shows you are 60.

I am decided about my faith in Jesus and God... but it may look different to the human eye than yours. God can see the whole thing clearly. What can we really see beyond what He has allowed us to see?
 
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amadeus

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Ok, I sincerely wish to see how I did that, because that is not my intention at all. So if you would show me, then I perhaps can avoid it in future.
For one you said I was not decided about my faith in Jesus Christ. I never said that. You drew that conclusion but not from anything I said on this forum. It is not true. I am decided!
 
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robert derrick

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If you looked at my profile you would that I am 77 years old in the flesh. Your profile shows you are 60.

I am decided about my faith in Jesus and God... but it may look different to the human eye than yours. God can see the whole thing clearly. What can we really see beyond what He has allowed us to see?
Really? That's it? I have never doubted your faith in Him. That's not even our place to judge the faith of another. And frankly I am so distant from caring for such things, that if someone tried to do so with me, it wouldn't matter one bit, because it's ridiculous. I certainly wouldn't get upset over it. Frankly, I'd be more interested in why someone would even think it...

No, there's something missing here, but it doesn't matter. I believe there is one simple difference between us, as fellow believers: You appear in all you say to be quite comfortable with what you don't know or understand, and black and white is too much to ask. In this we disagree.

I have no doubt I come off pushy and insistent on what you believe pertaining to God's Word, but it has nothing to do with whether you believe Jesus. So, if you care to continue, then tell me something definite that you do understand and know of a certainty about the Word of God. And we can go from there. And if I had not known it, and your Scripture proves it, then believe me, I will be most thankful for it.

If not, then that's fine too.
 
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Cooper

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At a given moment a person be perfect before God, but how long does he stay there? Consider this perhaps not uncommon scenario:

There I am in a really good church service praising God and loving Him with all that is in me along with some good brothers and sisters in Christ. Then the service is over and I refocus of someplace else I need to be and am going do not directly related to God. I get into my car and driving along thinking on these other things, someone in a hurry cut sharply in front of me causing to slam on my brakes to avoid an accident. My mouth opens in that moment and say some unkind ungodly things about that other driver.

What happened to the Spirit of God? Quenched? Hmmm?



Can teaching the Way of God be harder than living it? In teaching we may often be using hypothetical situations, whereas in living it, there is nothing hypothetical about it. Jesus was good in both areas. He lived without sinning and he taught people the truth, but not every person understood all that he taught.

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?" Matt 15:16

They turned back to Jesus for further clarification and explanation. Who are we to turn to...?



If we ourselves are missing God's point or we are deluded in our understanding then would rebuking the other guy be in order? Sometimes it really is a good thing to remain silent, is it not? Jesus was silent at times when he certainly knew the answer to someone's question. Do any of us always have God's answer to any question any person may put to us? Do we always know when to remain silent even though we are certain we know the answer?

Deluded people believe they are correct. How does a person avoid delusion in the things of God?



I do agree, but unless you are absolutely certain that there is no error in your own understanding of the scriptures, should you quickly jump in with both feet to condemn or rebuke them? Are you flawless in the things of God? Is the group or church you meet with always completely and absolutely right in the eyes of God?

Why does Apostle Paul cite the OT here with regard to liars?

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged" Rom 3:4

If we are wrong... but believing we are right we go ahead and teach it as we believe it, is it not still a lie, even though an unintentional one?



Because a writer of some verses of scripture has perfect understanding of it, does not mean that every reader has the same unflawed understanding, does it?

If God were to give me the truth of a matter but I was only able to express it in German and you knew no German you would need some help to understand what God was saying, would you not?



I see putting myself into study of the scriptures as the way to obtain God's approval. However, it may not always result in obtaining the truth of a matter. The truth, I believe, comes as per that other verse I previously cited: John 14:26.

A person really studying the Bible hard may find himself here:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

God gave Solomon many answers with regard to our flesh and/or our carnal ways including that verse. When a person studies with all of his carnal might without being in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit, he may fill his head with a lot a stuff including "a weariness of the flesh"... but no truth...
If the other driver broke the law,
At a given moment a person be perfect before God, but how long does he stay there? Consider this perhaps not uncommon scenario:

There I am in a really good church service praising God and loving Him with all that is in me along with some good brothers and sisters in Christ. Then the service is over and I refocus of someplace else I need to be and am going do not directly related to God. I get into my car and driving along thinking on these other things, someone in a hurry cut sharply in front of me causing to slam on my brakes to avoid an accident. My mouth opens in that moment and say some unkind ungodly things about that other driver.

What happened to the Spirit of God? Quenched? Hmmm?



Can teaching the Way of God be harder than living it? In teaching we may often be using hypothetical situations, whereas in living it, there is nothing hypothetical about it. Jesus was good in both areas. He lived without sinning and he taught people the truth, but not every person understood all that he taught.

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?" Matt 15:16

They turned back to Jesus for further clarification and explanation. Who are we to turn to...?



If we ourselves are missing God's point or we are deluded in our understanding then would rebuking the other guy be in order? Sometimes it really is a good thing to remain silent, is it not? Jesus was silent at times when he certainly knew the answer to someone's question. Do any of us always have God's answer to any question any person may put to us? Do we always know when to remain silent even though we are certain we know the answer?

Deluded people believe they are correct. How does a person avoid delusion in the things of God?



I do agree, but unless you are absolutely certain that there is no error in your own understanding of the scriptures, should you quickly jump in with both feet to condemn or rebuke them? Are you flawless in the things of God? Is the group or church you meet with always completely and absolutely right in the eyes of God?

Why does Apostle Paul cite the OT here with regard to liars?

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged" Rom 3:4

If we are wrong... but believing we are right we go ahead and teach it as we believe it, is it not still a lie, even though an unintentional one?



Because a writer of some verses of scripture has perfect understanding of it, does not mean that every reader has the same unflawed understanding, does it?

If God were to give me the truth of a matter but I was only able to express it in German and you knew no German you would need some help to understand what God was saying, would you not?



I see putting myself into study of the scriptures as the way to obtain God's approval. However, it may not always result in obtaining the truth of a matter. The truth, I believe, comes as per that other verse I previously cited: John 14:26.

A person really studying the Bible hard may find himself here:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

God gave Solomon many answers with regard to our flesh and/or our carnal ways including that verse. When a person studies with all of his carnal might without being in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit, he may fill his head with a lot a stuff including "a weariness of the flesh"... but no truth...
In the "parable" of The driver who cuts in front of someone with all its possible consequences was breaking the law, something he may have done habitually, that being his nature, what do you think Jesus will say to anyone on judgement day who breaks God's Holy Law, if it is not to curse him to Hell and damnation while remaining righteous himself?

Meanwhile, the God fearing, law abiding driver who was frightened to death, which is a totally understandable reaction, recovers their composure and remaining righteous in the sight of God, turns their thoughts to higher things. :)

Jesus said harsh things to those who broke the law, and providing it is justified, should not be condemned. In my opinion that is. It is a shame the blessedness he felt was torn away from him by the action of another. But that was their doing, while the reaction of the careful driver was completely understandable. Remember Jesus vent his anger on the money lenders and market salesmen in the temple who were making a mockery of what only Jesus could do on the cross a few days later. I am
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Cooper

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so WHY do you LIE and say that you are a "christian"???
Notice the number of 'likes' a self confessed non-Christian gets while identifying as a Christian. It causes me to wonder. Even JW's identify as 'Christian' while at the same time claiming Jesus was only a man. If their faith is Christian, then according to the meaning if the word 'faith' they need to worship Jesus, whose deity they deny. Either they worship Jesus, in which case according to their religion, they are worshipping a human being, or if they worship a different 'deity' then their religion is not Christian, but probably similar to that of the unbelieving Jews who crucified Jesus, on the grounds he was only a man. We know according to scripture what their end will be.
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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Notice the number of 'likes' a self confessed none-Christian gets while identifying as a Christian. It causes me to wonder. Even JW's identify as 'Christian' while at the same time claiming Jesus was only a man. If their faith is Christian, then according to the meaning if the word 'faith' they need to worship Jesus, whose deity they deny. Either they worship Jesus, in which case according to their religion, they are worshipping a human being, or if they worship a different 'deity' then their religion is not Christian, but probably similar to that of the unbelieving Jews who crucified Jesus, on the grounds he was only a man.
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The God of the Holy Bible is Three distinct Persons Who are 100% coeternal, coessential and coequal. The Three are YHWH, but One Godhead
 

Cooper

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The God of the Holy Bible is Three distinct Persons Who are 100% coeternal, coessential and coequal. The Three are YHWH, but One Godhead
That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Neither do I believe we are three persons having body, soul and spirit. I am 'one' person with body, soul and spirit, so are you, and the Almighty is one God with body, soul (the Comforter) and spirit. He was the One "God with us."
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keithr

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For even the angels who are indeed the created spirit beings, that the naysayers are trying to make of Jesus, refused worship: "See thou do it not" (Rev 19:10. 22:9)
Read those verses you referenced again:

(Rev 19:10) And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

(Rev 22:8) And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
(Rev 22:9) Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.​

In both cases in John's vision of future events, the angel (messenger) who spoke to John said not to worship him because he was a fellow Christian, just like John was.
 

Cooper

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Read those verses you referenced again:

(Rev 19:10) And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

(Rev 22:8) And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
(Rev 22:9) Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.​

In both cases in John's vision of future events, the angel (messenger) who spoke to John said not to worship him because he was a fellow Christian, just like John was.
True. Did you know that human messengers like the apostles who taught the Christian (God's) message were also called angels?
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keithr

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And praise be the Lord Jehovah Jesus,
Who is Jehovah Jesus? There is no such name mentioned in the Bible - you're making it up!

"I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes..."
(Luke 10). (You do know that Jesus is Lord, right? Lord Jesus? And there is one Lord (Eph 4:5). You know, Lord of heaven and earth? Even as the Father? Both being the true and only God...)

(Eph 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(Eph 4:6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God (Yahweh) is God of all and father of all. Jesus said in John 20:17, "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God". Just as Yahweh is our God and father, so Jesus said Yahweh was his God and father. So Jesus is clearly not God! It can't get much simpler and clearer than that.

Ephesians 4:5 tells us there is just one Lord, but verse 6 tells us that just as there is just one Lord, one faith, one baptism, that there is also just one God, who is father of all, including the father of Jesus. Therefore Jesus cannot be God. This is plain and simple. I suspect from what you have written in this and other posts, that you are confused by Bible translations that refer to LORD and Lord. You have quoted Luke 10:21 where Jesus refers to his Father (God) as "Lord of heaven and earth", and then because Jesus is refered to as Lord you think he was talking to or refering to himself - but he wasn't.

You appear to be equating references to LORD and Lord, thinking that they are refering to the same thing/person. They're not. When the english translations use the word LORD it's actually God's name, Yahweh, which they are hiding by translating it as LORD rather than Yahweh. The word Lord used in the new testament of Jesus is not God's name, it is the Greek word kurios which means lord, master or sir.

So when Psalm 110:1 is quoted in the New Testament, in Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:42 and Acts 2:34:

(Psa 110:1) A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.​

The first LORD is God's name, Yahweh, and the second Lord is the Hebrew word 'adon', which means lord, master, owner or sir. It is David being prophetic of God saying to Jesus, "Sit at my right hand", as Peter explains at Pentecost (Acts 2:32-36 WEB):

32) This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses.
33) Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.
34) For David didn’t ascend into the heavens, but he says himself, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit by my right hand,
35) until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’
36) “Let all the house of Israel therefore know certainly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

(Note that Jesus only received the Holy Spirit after his resurrection.)
 

keithr

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True. Did you know that human messengers like the apostles who taught the Christian (God's) message were also called angels?
I'm aware of Galatians 4:14, "That which was a temptation to you in my flesh, you didn’t despise nor reject; but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus". But that could mean that he was received as if he was an angel, or as if he was Jesus, and not necessarily mean that he was referred to as an angel. Paul may have been using the word angel as just meaning 'messenger'. When saying "even as Jesus", Paul may have been aluding to Jesus' words in Matthew 10:40, "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me".
 

NayborBear

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God had Jesus perform the creation according to His design, but it was still God's creation...

So, let's consider this: God had His son Jesus 'perform' the creation, but it was still God's creation...

"Hey, look son, let me make one thing perfectly clear, all things may have been created by you, but you, my boy, are no Creator. I'm the Creator, not you! It's still my creation, not yours! That's little 's', got it??" (Sounds like the alternate Cpt Kirk: I'm the Captain! I'm the Captain of the ship!!)

Let's go on.

after God resurrected Jesus to life again, God blessed Jesus with an immortal nature...


So, Jesus didn't actually create anything. He only 'performed the creation' at his Father's behest. Therefore, he was NOT the actual Creator, because he never actually created anything himself, and was merely a mortal man, who at that time had not an immortal nature.

Ok. Well then, I guess I could see why the true Creator had to rebuke this created toad of a boy for the idolatrous thought that he would dare think himself as Creator. And Paul likewise was falling into the same trap in declaring that by Him, the Son, all things were created. Which would cause someone to naturally and idolatrously conclude that Jesus was the actual Creator...

Ok, that makes sense. And so the unitarian Jehovah-idolizing Jews of that day were just following in the Creator's footsteps, when they likewise rebuked the upstart mortal Jesus as an idolatrous blasphemer, for daring to refer to himself as the Creator I AM. And not only that, they obeyed the Creator by having his errant mortal son crucified. I mean, enough is enough, right? And the Jehovaites of today would likewise do...

Sick, but true.

It sure sounds like you are of the Unitarian persuasion!

Inasmuch as you are giving Christ ALL the credit, while robbing His Father and God of ANY SUBSTANCE WHATSOEVER!
Certainly NOT an aspiration I would want to subscribe to!
But? "Hopeless Romantics" would!
Yep? Misguided, polluted, corrupted, and misplaced agape love can!
 

amadeus

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Really? That's it? I have never doubted your faith in Him. That's not even our place to judge the faith of another. And frankly I am so distant from caring for such things, that if someone tried to do so with me, it wouldn't matter one bit, because it's ridiculous. I certainly wouldn't get upset over it. Frankly, I'd be more interested in why someone would even think it...
I guess it was just a communication problem then. I apologize for any error on my part in that. Those [communication problems] are not uncommon on this forum nor as in a lot of other places in my experience. Just so you know!

God for a great many years has been first in my life and I have been married for nearly 49 years [next month]. We have a good marriage, but my wife knows that God is first in front of her! Every morning [7 days a week] I start off my day with Bible reading and conversation/prayer with God. It is my necessary morning nourishment. Without Him I really could do nothing.

No, there's something missing here, but it doesn't matter. I believe there is one simple difference between us, as fellow believers: You appear in all you say to be quite comfortable with what you don't know or understand, and black and white is too much to ask. In this we disagree.
These are what my old friend here [@bbyrd009] called ATs [Absolute Truths]. I believe most certainly that they exist and God knows everyone of them. Apparently you and I know some of them and are guided by them as we step out in faith toward God. Defining them is I suppose where we differ.

A sincere person humbles himself from the first surrendering to God by faith and is moved or moves forward toward God. He is all faith at time as per the definition written here:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

From that start a person should be learning and growing. Some knowledge [as opposed to faith] becomes part of his walk with God. Too many people I believe begin describe absolutely some of the ATs when really for them they are still beliefs held in faith. Oh I believe that people do hold some ATs, but for the most part they are unable to separate them from beliefs. They insist on doing so anyway. Years ago after a traumatic experience involving God I learned to the "lowest room" each day emptying myself of as much as I could of everything I believed. Then I would let God refill me. Some days nothing changed of which I was definitely aware. My beliefs, doctrines and such would seem the same... but once in a while something new was there or something noticeable was changed. God alone is the One who really elevates us or instructs us to "go up higher".

"And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:9-11

That is to me speaking of growing, from faith to faith and from faith to knowledge. The Ats are the knowledge, but only God as far as I can see is always able to exactly and correctly see the difference that which we hold only by faith and that which we know. Perhaps some [much?] of what we hold
by faith has errors in it which as we grow toward will be corrected as we allow Him to work in us...but we cannot draw an always accurate line in ourselves between that which we really know and that which we believe in error. Jesus grew providing the perfect example and we must grow:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith..." Heb 12:2

When is our faith finished? When it has all been replaced by knowledge as per I would say by the very mind of God. When our vision is at the "face to face"! When the darkened seeing is at the "then"!

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12


I have no doubt I come off pushy and insistent on what you believe pertaining to God's Word, but it has nothing to do with whether you believe Jesus. So, if you care to continue, then tell me something definite that you do understand and know of a certainty about the Word of God. And we can go from there. And if I had not known it, and your Scripture proves it, then believe me, I will be most thankful for it.

If not, then that's fine too.
I hope that my whole being as I present it is definite. I definite believe God and follow Him. I am one of His sheep hearing and heeding His voice from day to day, from moment to moment rather than the voice of a stranger:

"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5

Do I ever fail or stumble? Unfortunately I do because there are still battles raging in me at times. God never loses any battles, but neither does He ever force a person to stay in the Spirit instead of quenching the Spirit. When is it that we are praying without ceasing and rejoicing in the Lord always?
 
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Cooper

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I'm aware of Galatians 4:14, "That which was a temptation to you in my flesh, you didn’t despise nor reject; but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus". But that could mean that he was received as if he was an angel, or as if he was Jesus, and not necessarily mean that he was referred to as an angel. Paul may have been using the word angel as just meaning 'messenger'. When saying "even as Jesus", Paul may have been aluding to Jesus' words in Matthew 10:40, "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me".
What you said here I think is spot on.
"Paul may have been using the word angel as just meaning 'messenger'. When saying "even as Jesus", Paul may have been aluding to Jesus' words in Matthew 10:40, "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me".

My commentary says:
Angels can be human messengers like Malachi (Mal 2:7) or the elders of a Church (Rev 2:1)

For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. (Malachi 2:7 KJV)

H4397
mal-awk'
From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically of God, that is, an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher ambassador, king, messenger.)
------
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; (Revelation 2:1 KJV)

G32
aggelos

From aggello¯ (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.
.
 
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amadeus

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If the other driver broke the law,
That is between that driver and God. I was speaking of myself for not having or for losing control of my tongue. My tongue needs to be controlled without regard for who is or is not to blame.

"But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be." James 3:8-10

How do we then control our tongue? In our flesh we cannot. God can...!

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4

Is the Spirit giving us utterance in our day to day encounters with people or are we following the old ways of a carnal man?

In the "parable" of The driver who cuts in front of someone with all its possible consequences was breaking the law, something he may have done habitually, that being his nature, what do you think Jesus will say to anyone on judgement day who breaks God's Holy Law, if it is not to curse him to Hell and damnation while remaining righteous himself?
God knowing all things may indeed invoke curses rather than blessings on a person... but how many of us know all things. When we are being led by the Holy Spirit all of the time, will we not do it right all of the time as Jesus walking planet Earth 2000 years ago did it right all of the time?

Who is leading us? When is the Holy Ghost in charge?

Meanwhile, the God fearing, law abiding driver who was frightened to death, which is a totally understandable reaction, recovers their composure and remaining righteous in the sight of God, turns their thoughts to higher things. :)
An understandable human reaction perhaps to other humans, but to God? God may indeed forgive us for our loose lips that cursed the other driver, but are we not to work to do better and to ask God to help us to do better, to never make that same mistake again?

Consider just the reasonable service described here:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Rom 12:1-2

Hopefully we are on the approach!


Jesus said harsh things to those who broke the law, and providing it is justified, should not be condemned. In my opinion that is. It is a shame the blessedness he felt was torn away from him by the action of another. But that was their doing, while the reaction of the careful driver was completely understandable. Remember Jesus vent his anger on the money lenders and market salesmen in the temple who were making a mockery of what only Jesus could do on the cross a few days later. I am
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How close to being like Jesus are we? Jesus said harsh things knowing all of the facts. We seldom if ever know as much about things as he did. This is why. I believe, this was written:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged." Matt 7:1 Who but God and His Son are perfect judges? Who among us never makes an error in our judgement of someone else?
 

NayborBear

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Question: How did a natural man 'perform the creation'? Simply by his natural word?

I mean, if the son was natural and mortal in his beginning, then so was his word.

And where exactly was he naturally existing before he was born of Mary?

I got it! Jesus was in fact Adam! Jesus actually performed his own creation! Which was not after he performed the creation of heaven and earth, but of necessity before it, in order to perform it in the first place! And being an idolater who thought himself Creator for his good performance, he wanted to be a god!! He figured he deserved at least that. But he died for such blasphemy in the garden.

However, this Jehovaite 'Creator' was eternally merciful and not finished with errant Jesus-Adam yet. So in the fullness of time the J-Creator put His formerly-dead son in Mary's womb and gave him a 2nd chance at it. (Jesus could not perform that himself, because he was dead due to idolatry). But then Jesus, as the second time Adam, blew it again by the exact same blasphemy of referring to himself as the Creator I AM. You see, he just could not wrap his head around the fact that he was only a performer' of creation, and not the Creator himself. (And I confess, I would probably make the same mistake myself)

However, before the Creator (and it is still His creation) was through with the young punk, the unitarian Jehovaites of the day went too far in their zeal for their J-Creator by having him crucified. And so the Creator figured enough was enough; Jesus was never really going to get it right. 2 strikes you're out.

But since Adam-Jesus had performed miracles for people while on earth the second time, the Creator went ahead and resurrected him and blessed him with an immortal nature. Basically, gave in to his obstinate son, and gave him what he always wanted in the first place, to be a god, and finally owner of the creation itself to boot. Sort of like Zeus did for Herakles.

But he is still NOT the Creator, even though it's now officially his creation, sort of. Which is why from time to time the little immortal upstart gets into arguments with the J-Creator, and weird things happen like stars falling, moon red like blood, etc...and other cosmic stuff like that.

I knew Jehovaites were pagan and mystical, but I never really knew how much so. One could literally write another whole creation myth out of it. Which of course is what they have done. It's called the J-Creation Book of Secrets.

Is interesting you make and have made references to "Greek Mythology" more then a coupla times throughout this thread.

Which tells me you are not one of those subscribing to the 6,000 year old earth doctrine/tradition/precepts of man! (ie. things that make void the Word of God) Which is a good thing!
Although, you do come off as an arrogant sob that still clings dearly with those "stars" that were "swept by the dragon's tale (purposely misspelled, for its persuasive INTENT). AND? the reason and cause for the DEMISES AND DESTRUCTION/S of previous earth and heaven AGES! Not the 3rd rock from the sun itself! But? the "government and governmental structures" of both that which happens in the heavens, with a particular focus on that which occurs on this planet, that which was/is created on this planet, especially where it is concerned with the souls/spirit of man, which God in his good pleasure created! Which is not a good thing!

Which is the why it can be said and is true, AND? is written concerning Christ's role in this "section of eternity" "that by him, and FOR Him was ALL this universe created and EVERYTHING in it!

But? not so much as being destroyed, as much as those heavenly bodies (planets, galaxies, constellations, etcetera, etcetera) being REARRANGED!

And that which has happened SHALL happen again!

Hence the increase in the speed of godlessness and lawlessness we are at this time baring wittness to!

Because, although you yourself may not be aware of it! But, yer daddy does!
"Yer TIME is SHORT!" :)


 

Cooper

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That is between that driver and God. I was speaking of myself for not having or for losing control of my tongue. My tongue needs to be controlled without regard for who is or is not to blame.

"But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be." James 3:8-10

How do we then control our tongue? In our flesh we cannot. God can...!

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4

Is the Spirit giving us utterance in our day to day encounters with people or are we following the old ways of a carnal man?


God knowing all things may indeed invoke curses rather than blessings on a person... but how many of us know all things. When we are being led by the Holy Spirit all of the time, will we not do it right all of the time as Jesus walking planet Earth 2000 years ago did it right all of the time?

Who is leading us? When is the Holy Ghost in charge?


An understandable human reaction perhaps to other humans, but to God? God may indeed forgive us for our loose lips that cursed the other driver, but are we not to work to do better and to ask God to help us to do better, to never make that same mistake again?

Consider just the reasonable service described here:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Rom 12:1-2

Hopefully we are on the approach!



How close to being like Jesus are we? Jesus said harsh things knowing all of the facts. We seldom if ever know as much about things as he did. This is why. I believe, this was written:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged." Matt 7:1 Who but God and His Son are perfect judges? Who among us never makes an error in our judgement of someone else?
I cannot imagine someone with a pure heart, cussing and swearing like the wicked. Me thinks you worry too much, mind you, none of us are angels. :)
.
 

NayborBear

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Read those verses you referenced again:

(Rev 19:10) And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

(Rev 22:8) And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
(Rev 22:9) Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.​

In both cases in John's vision of future events, the angel (messenger) who spoke to John said not to worship him because he was a fellow Christian, just like John was.

What it appears to being revealed here is 1 of the few chosen into the order of Melchizedek speaking to "another" one of the few? So these things shown and words given to John would be of no effect, save John was yet in the flesh.
That being said? Are we not all called to be candidates of this Holy Forever Priesthood?
1 Peter 2:
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
 
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