Proof that Jesus is God

[BroRando]

When the Son said 'I thirst' on the cross, He wasn't asking for water on earth, but rather thirsting for fellowship with God (John 4). At this point was were the sins of the whole world placed upon His soul, and therefore God had to separate from Him.

The truth never changes but you sure do. Is the Lamb of God in your trinity doctrine? Why won't you share your trinity doctrine? Why hide in the dark? Come out to the light. I guess he doesn't know that the chosen one means the Christ. Now he admits Jesus isn't God?

This sorta goes against the Father and I are the same doesn't it. Trinitarians always changing trying to find an angle. Well anyways Robert. Thank you for sharing the scripture instead of making things that the trinity doesn't say.

One question though since you can't find a trinity that witnesses about Jesus Christ coming in the flesh.
Who made this statement?

“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

Jesus or God? Answer at (Matthew 27:46)

 

[kcnalp]

I'm still waiting on your proof of Jesus Christ in your trinity doctrine.

During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. (Hebrews 12:28)

I never met a trinitarian that believed in (Romans 10:9) The trinity doesn't beget salvation but notice what does?
For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

Yep, that's JW.

 

[Jlentz]

Jesus wasn't God / man?

Jesus....perfect man and perfect God

 

[kcnalp]

The truth never changes but you sure do. Is the Lamb of God in your trinity doctrine? Why won't you share your trinity doctrine? Why hide in the dark? Come out to the light. I guess he doesn't know that the chosen one means the Christ. Now he admits Jesus isn't God?

This sorta goes against the Father and I are the same doesn't it. Trinitarians always changing trying to find an angle. Well anyways Robert. Thank you for sharing the scripture instead of making things that the trinity doesn't say.

One question though since you can't find a trinity that witnesses about Jesus Christ coming in the flesh.
Who made this statement?

“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

Jesus or God? Answer at (Matthew 27:46)

Jesus was quoting Scripture.

Psalm 22:1 (NKJV)
1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping Me, And from the words of My groaning?

 

[Jlentz]

I believe in the Trinity....Father Son Holy Spirit.
Without the GodHead(Trinity), you couldn't be saved.

 

[BroRando]

Jesus was quoting Scripture.

Psalm 22:1 (NKJV)
1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping Me, And from the words of My groaning?

Thank you for answering for Robert, I think he froze and didn't know what to say. Most trinitarians don't believe that a person can be saved by Jesus Christ. They believe in a false salvation in the trinity for salvation. So they say I believe the trinity so that will Save me. So someone like this, Satan has already caught in denying Jesus Christ.

However, If you want to believe Jesus is God or a god that makes no difference to me because titles are given to those in the Godhead. Like Paul, Moses, Jesus... the Bible states that Jesus is the begotten god at (John 1:18) Most translations are dishonest and removed the feminine noun theos and inserted son into it because they did what anyone to know that Jesus is the begotten god which means he was brought forth...

The Godhead is a divine creation and that is why it is spoken of as a feminine noun. Like John 1:1c
Strong's Concordance
theotés: deity
Original Word: θεότης, ητος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theotés
Phonetic Spelling: (theh-ot'-ace)
Short Definition: deity, Godhead
Definition: deity, Godhead.

 

[robert derrick]

Yep. Jesus was SENT. By Whom?? The trinity claims the Son is the second person of God. You won't find the Phrase "Jesus is God" in any scripture and you won't find that phrase in any trinity doctrines. The three parts, persons, and forms are all WITHOUT NAMES.

Jesus is far removed from the trinity doctrine. Now if you have a trinity doctrine with the name Jesus Christ in it. I'm open to see it... waiting... tapping my fingers...

Anyways a true trinitarian would not agree that 'Jesus is God'. Do you know why? Jesus is not a three person god. A trinitarian would say that the son according to doctrine is the second person of the trinity. No such scripture though.

The trinity states no persons in the trinity have a beginning. So why are you quoting John 1:1 that states, "In the beginning was the Word" Trying to prove the trinity with the scripture that nullifies it... is not a very good stronghold to start from.

Trinitarians are so busy trying to turn Jesus into God, they deny him as the Christ. Where is Jesus Christ in your trinity doctrine?? Who came in the flesh?

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 7)

Which trinity gives a witness about Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. NONE.

Anyone who represents God is part of the Godhead. Angles, men, prophets. If Jesus is God then who was that who gave him authority?? Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth."

After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory. (Rev 18:1)

Do you believe the Son of God was created? Do you believe the Son and the Father are the same Person: God?

1. In the beginning (of creation) was the Word...Is the normal reading. Not in the beginning of the Word.
The Word was not created in the beginning, no more than God was: In the beginning (of creation) God created...

So, in the beginning of the creation the Word was with God and the Word was God. The Lord was God Who would be called jesus, when born into His creation as man.

So now show how the Word was not God in the beginning of creation.

2. "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." (1 John 5)

The Son of God, gives us an understanding of Him that is true, Whom we are in: His Son Jesus Christ: This is the true God. Clearly the Son is spoken of and is the true God. The Father is not mentioned in that verse nor in all of Chapter 5. The Son is the true God even as the Father (John 17)

3. The Son of God, the true God from everlasting, humbled Himself and made Himself of no reputation (Phillip 2), that He might Himself be provided as the Lamb of God, which God prophesied of Himself to Abraham (Gen 22).

As He said, He laid down His everlasting Life with power of God, and was able at anytime to take it up again (John 10). He did not, that He might humble Himself to the cross for us. Since He humbled Himself and laid down His own power as the true God, He had to receive such power and authority from the God the Father who remained in heaven. And He did so by God the Spirit.

This is the example that He left us: to rely completely on God and His Spirit for authority and power, and no in ourselves.

4. The Son and the Father are one in unity (John 17), and His believers shall be the same likewise, one in unity with the Father and the Son.
The Son is a Person, The Father is a Person, and so the Holy Spirit. All three are the true God and God altogether.

5. The prophesied Messiah was to provide Himself as Lamb of sacrifice. He was to be the Lord God in Person on earth. That is why those Jews who rejected Jesus as Christ, accused Him of blasphemy for trying to 'make himself God' (John 10)(Mark 14).

(John 1) He came unto His own , and His own received Him not. The nation of Israel was His own people. He made them and raised them up in the Old Covenant specially as His people, and came in person to them in the New. The Scripture is not saying that Jesus was coming to his own brothers and sisters. They were His people, and they rejected Him.

6. antichrists likewise deny the Son: "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." (1 John 2) If you deny the Son, you also deny the Father, if we acknowledge the Son then we have the Father also, because they are both God. To deny One as God, is to deny the other as God likewise.

We cannot acknowledge and confess Jesus Christ, the Son of God, has come in the flesh in answer of Abraham's prophesy of God Himself, and yet deny the Son as God Himself come to be the Lamb of God Himself.

These things prove to me Jesus is God the Son and is not God the Father. Now, if you would refute these 'proofs' in detail that are in response to your points in detail, then I would be glad to stop referring to the Son of God as God.

 

[kcnalp]

However, If you want to believe Jesus is God or a god that makes no difference to me because titles are given to those in the Godhead.

You're kidding, right?

 

[robert derrick]

Thank you for answering for Robert, I think he froze and didn't know what to say. Most trinitarians don't believe that a person can be saved by Jesus Christ. They believe in a false salvation in the trinity for salvation. So they say I believe the trinity so that will Save me. So someone like this, Satan has already caught in denying Jesus Christ.

However, If you want to believe Jesus is God or a god that makes no difference to me because titles are given to those in the Godhead. Like Paul, Moses, Jesus... the Bible states that Jesus is the begotten god at (John 1:18) Most translations are dishonest and removed the feminine noun theos and inserted son into it because they did what anyone to know that Jesus is the begotten god which means he was brought forth...

The Godhead is a divine creation and that is why it is spoken of as a feminine noun. Like John 1:1c
Strong's Concordance
theotés: deity
Original Word: θεότης, ητος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theotés
Phonetic Spelling: (theh-ot'-ace)
Short Definition: deity, Godhead
Definition: deity, Godhead.

So, you are another Jevovahite after all, with all your Apollyonic Greek renditions. I've already gone through all this with your fellow unitarian Arianists. I would not have bothered responding to you, but was not sure where you were coming from. Now I know.

Therefore, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was wwiht God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

The Word was with God in the beginning of creation. Simple. Your only response has been: It's a figurative reference. What a joke. And childish, and petty. But then, unitarians don't believe the Bible is unerring, and so, what's a few 'figurative' dismissals for good measure.

And I know you will not respond to my previous points in detail, but rather move on to another wordy rendition of Greek hood. So, I won't be expecting any serious behavior from you.

(The picture should have given me away. Another suited proselytizer in action. With a smile, of course)

 

[kcnalp]

So, you are another Jevovahite after all, with all your Apollyonic Greek renditions. I've already gone through all this with your fellow unitarian Arianists. I would not have bothered responding to you, but was not sure where you were coming from. Now I know.

Therefore, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was wwiht God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

The Word was with God in the beginning of creation. Simple. Your only response has been: It's a figurative reference. What a joke. And childish, and petty. But then, unitarians don't believe the Bible is unerring, and so, what's a few 'figurative' dismissals for good measure.

And I know you will not respond to my previous points in detail, but rather move on to another wordy rendition of Greek hood. So, I won't be expecting any serious behavior from you.

(The picture should have given me away. Another suited proselytizer in action. With a smile, of course)

What's the difference between Jevovahite and JW?

 

[BroRando]

Do you believe the Son of God was created? Do you believe the Son and the Father are the same Person: God?

Look up the scripture for yourself. The trinity makes the claim that no person within the trinity has a beginning. But is this true? John 1:1 actually supersedes Gen 1:1 Who did creation come through?? Before the earth before the angels, before the heavens as we as space and galaxies. Doesn't the scripture state that Jesus is in the image of God? The Firstborn of All Creation?? Are you trying to say that Jesus was never begotten??

In the Beginning was the Word (John 1:1) Yes or No? You use this verse a million times but now you don't believe the Word has a beginning?

The Word was begotten when?? In the beginning. I know it hurts, But you don't have to believe if you don't want too. You have free will... So the Beginning is giving witness about whom? Take alook at this:

Strong's Concordance:
arché: beginning,
origin Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arché
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Short Definition: ruler, beginning
Definition: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.

So who has the beginning?? In the Beginning was the Word (John 1:1)

HELPS Word-studies 746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense),
i.e."the initial (starting) point";
(figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost),
i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").

Look at each one, do they not explain a time when Jesus was Begotten?? In the Beginning.. the beginning of what?

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; (Colossians 1:15) Now plug in the meanings and the explanations from the word Beginning. Is he preeminent?? Is he Chief? Ect..ect...
Isn't Firstborn a starting point? Yes or No? Firstborn of what???
Strong's Concordance
ktisis: creation (the act or the product)
Original Word: κτίσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ktisis
Phonetic Spelling: (ktis'-is)
Short Definition: creation, creature, institution
Definition: (often of the founding of a city), (a) abstr: creation, (b) concr: creation, creature, institution; always of Divine work, (c) an institution, ordinance.

Do I really need to keep going??
The Bible even states that "Christ is the Wisdom of God." (1 Corinthians 1:24)
Strong's Concordance sophia: skill, wisdom
Original Word: σοφία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: sophia
Phonetic Spelling: (sof-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: wisdom
Definition: wisdom, insight, skill (human or divine), intelligence.

Someone once told me, 'If you really want to know about Jesus prehuman existence, read Proverbs chapter 8 and 9...
I know I know, Wisdom is spoken as she in feminine sense... Yes Sir!

 

[Cooper]

Jesus wasn't God / man?

Jesus was both of those, of course he was a man on earth, and Creator God.

You have made a good and true point. I was thinking before Christ. You have done well.
.

 

[Cooper]

Look up the scripture for yourself. The trinity makes the claim that no person within the trinity has a beginning. But is this true? John 1:1 actually supersedes Gen 1:1 Who did creation come through?? Before the earth before the angels, before the heavens as we as space and galaxies. Doesn't the scripture state that Jesus is in the image of God? The Firstborn of All Creation?? Are you trying to say that Jesus was never begotten??

In the Beginning was the Word (John 1:1) Yes or No? You use this verse a million times but now you don't believe the Word has a beginning?

The Word was begotten when?? In the beginning. I know it hurts, But you don't have to believe if you don't want too. You have free will... So the Beginning is giving witness about whom? Take alook at this:

Strong's Concordance:
arché: beginning,
origin Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arché
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Short Definition: ruler, beginning
Definition: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.

So who has the beginning?? In the Beginning was the Word (John 1:1)

HELPS Word-studies 746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense),
i.e."the initial (starting) point";
(figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost),
i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").

Look at each one, do they not explain a time when Jesus was Begotten?? In the Beginning.. the beginning of what?

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; (Colossians 1:15) Now plug in the meanings and the explanations from the word Beginning. Is he preeminent?? Is he Chief? Ect..ect...
Isn't Firstborn a starting point? Yes or No? Firstborn of what???
Strong's Concordance
ktisis: creation (the act or the product)
Original Word: κτίσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ktisis
Phonetic Spelling: (ktis'-is)
Short Definition: creation, creature, institution
Definition: (often of the founding of a city), (a) abstr: creation, (b) concr: creation, creature, institution; always of Divine work, (c) an institution, ordinance.

Do I really need to keep going??
The Bible even states that "Christ is the Wisdom of God." (1 Corinthians 1:24)
Strong's Concordance sophia: skill, wisdom
Original Word: σοφία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: sophia
Phonetic Spelling: (sof-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: wisdom
Definition: wisdom, insight, skill (human or divine), intelligence.

Someone once told me, 'If you really want to know about Jesus prehuman existence, read Proverbs chapter 8 and 9...
I know I know, Wisdom is spoken as she in feminine sense... Yes Sir!

Look. God is our Heavenly Father, Saviour, and Comforter. At least for me. It is as simple as that.

If you do not believe it, then I feel sorry for you.
.

 

[Wrangler]

Where does Scripture say Jesus was praying for 'strength'? He was praying that there might be another way of redeeming mankind, than through Himself dying on the cross.

Who was Jesus praying to? God.

What proof would you accept that Jesus is not God? What if God Himself came down from heaven and said he alone (not trinitarian) is God; would that mean anything to you?

 

[robert derrick]

I wish I was more laid back. I tend to get upset.
.

I understand completely. Believe me, since you are a serious reader of Scripture, and actually care from the heart to understand what God has to say. But when we realize that someone else does not care, and is not serious, but is only a manipulator at best, then we can easily dismiss them.

Therefore, once I find out on this site, that I am talking to one of the Jehovahites, who are not to be taken seriously, then I simply observe something of what they say (I don't bother to try and go thru all their Greek rubbish), and if something useful occurs to me, then I independently on it.

But I do not do so as a reply to them. They do not deserve such courtesy. So try that. If you want to look at something they come out with, then do so, without any feeling of obligation to respond to them as a reply.

Who knows, if every Christian here refuses to hit 'reply' with them, then they may think they have won and will go away. Like their latest master of art tried to think I had become 'frozen' by his genius, simply because I did not respond right away. After all, I do have some work to do elsewhere in life...

 

[robert derrick]

What's the difference between Jevovahite and JW?

A JW admits they are JW.

Jehovahites are JW's who won't admit it, so that they can appear to be independent.

 

[kcnalp]

A JW admits they are JW.

Jehovahites are JW's who won't admit it, so that they can appear to be independent.

Well I have learned something today.

 

[robert derrick]

So, let's see. Here are a few trinkets from the Jehovahites who are not JW's. (And I am not a trinitarian)
"A true trinitarian would not agree that 'Jesus is God'. Jesus is not a three person God."

1.No one believes Jesus is a 'three person God'. Only a Jehovahite without faith nor knowledge would even think such a thing from Jesus Christ is God.
God is a the three Person God. And each Person in the Godhead is God, the true God.

2. "Trinitarians are so busy trying to turn Jesus into God, they deny him as the Christ."
The Christ, the Son of the Blessed was prophesied to be The Lord God in Person on earth, born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2). The Jews believed rightly that Messiah, the Christ was the Lord God on earth to Personally redeem Israel, and for this cause, they accused Jesus of blasphemy for claiming to be Christ, and so making Himself God (John 10) (Mark 14).

According to the prophecies (Isaiah 9), to believe Jesus is Christ is to believe Jesus is the Lord God. And so Jesus Christ, the Lord God, has come in the flesh... To deny that Jesus is the Lord God, is to deny Jesus is Christ. Only Jehovahite deniers try to make difference between the prophesied Messiah and the Lord God, so that they can claim with lips He is Christ, while deny in heart that He is the Lord God.

3. 'Christians follow the Christ. Trinitarians follow the trinity. Therefore.... Christians aren't trinitarians and trinitarians aren't Christians.'
(I think the guy who said this may be one of the elder masters of the Jehovahite universe of meaningless wit)
Christians follow Christ, Who came out of heaven in order to die for us and make way for us to heaven, where He has returned to the Father.

 

[robert derrick]

More gems of Jehovaism:

1. 'This goes against the Father and Son are the same.'
The writer of this needs to go to the Oneness' Christians, who believe the Son and the Father are the same Person.

The Father and the Son are not the same Person in the Godhead. But, they are the same as being truly God.

2. 'Most trinitarians don't believe that a person can be saved by Jesus Christ. They believe in a false trinity for salvation.'
Now this one I've never heard before nor ever thunk it. It is really something to watch a Jehovahite trying to tell trinitarians what trinitarians think. Like atheists trying to tell Christians what Christians they really think.

We are saved by God through faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and God. There is one Lord (Eph 4), and the Lord is God (Isaiah 43). Jesus is the Lord God come to fulfill the prophecies of His coming, where He would make Himself a lamb of sacrifice for sins (Gen 22).

3. 'Are you trying to say that Jesus was never begotten? The Word was begotten when? The Bible states that Jesus is the begotten god'
The Lord God became known as the begotten Son of God, and God became known as His Father, when the Word was made flesh and called Jesus for the first time in Scripture. A Jehovahite goes to the Apollyonic god of Greek to come up with: Jesus is the begotten god.

God the Son was begotten of God the Father, and the Word that was God was made flesh.

 

[robert derrick]

And here is the best jewel in the unitarian crown:

If you want to believe Jesus is God or a god that makes no difference to me...'

And here is the crux of the whole sordid affair of what it is to be a Jehovahite, when their mouth speaks from their heart: It does not matter to them. Nothing of this matters to them. The only thing that matters to them is the purposed effort to display enlightened wisdom of the Greek sort, in order to undo, change, or simply write off as figurative plainly written and easily understood Scripture.

Jesus as the Christ matters not one bit to them. They neither worship nor serve Him. They speak of Him only as a matter of lip service, in order to bring in their very large and repetitive Greekology.

They 'going to the Greek' they twist and turn the plain King's English of Scripture into a Gordian knot of confusion and unnecessary complication, but as Alexanders of the faith, we can just cut straight through threw all the tangled webs of silly deceit by the Sword the Spirit:

"Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Matthew 4)

"For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (Rom 16)

We serve God only, the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the one Lord, the true Lord God.

"Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Amen"