Denial: He was ALIVE in your belief ('spiritually dead'). NOT dead.
Jesus was cut of from being God?
Or was Jesus just cut off from a 1/3 God? The 'Ghost-God'?
Was it momentary, and then back on?
John 1:1 looked at HONESTLY!
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Denial: He was ALIVE in your belief ('spiritually dead'). NOT dead.
Jesus was cut of from being God?
Or was Jesus just cut off from a 1/3 God? The 'Ghost-God'?
Was it momentary, and then back on?
In Deuteronomy 6:4 we read “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.” And this is foundational throughout the Bible, there is One God.
Right away when we start the New Testament we see there is something more to be understood.
Matthew 3:16 “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
This was not the same Person. There was One speaking in heaven, One descending from heaven to earth, and One standing upon the earth. Should it be that each are called God, then you either have polytheism, or there's something more to this.
The Father said, "This is My Son, in Whom I am well pleased." The Father recognized that the Son was Someone other than Himself, rather, His Son.
Some other verses that speak of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit:
2 Samuel 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (God with us).
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
So there clearly are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
But then, each are called God:
Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Each acts in the same capacities as God:
Creating:
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?
Colossians 1:16 (speaking of Jesus) For by him were all things created,
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Psalm 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
John 1:3 (of Jesus) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Gives to us eternal life:
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Raised Jesus from the dead:
1 Corinthians 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:
Everywhere at once (omnipresent):
Jereriah 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
Ephesians 1:23 (speaking of Jesus) Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Psalm 139:7-8 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Saves us:
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Titus 3:4-6 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
What I find in the Scriptures are that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each individuals, each are God, and that there is only One God.
There are many ways people use to try to describe or understand this doctrine (teaching) of the Trinity, all fall short.
Much love!
Right away when we start the New Testament we see there is something more to be understood.
Matthew 3:16 “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
This was not the same Person. There was One speaking in heaven, One descending from heaven to earth, and One standing upon the earth. Should it be that each are called God, then you either have polytheism, or there's something more to this.
The Father said, "This is My Son, in Whom I am well pleased." The Father recognized that the Son was Someone other than Himself, rather, His Son.
Some other verses that speak of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit:
2 Samuel 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (God with us).
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
So there clearly are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
But then, each are called God:
Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Each acts in the same capacities as God:
Creating:
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?
Colossians 1:16 (speaking of Jesus) For by him were all things created,
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Psalm 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
John 1:3 (of Jesus) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Gives to us eternal life:
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Raised Jesus from the dead:
1 Corinthians 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:
Everywhere at once (omnipresent):
Jereriah 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
Ephesians 1:23 (speaking of Jesus) Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Psalm 139:7-8 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Saves us:
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Titus 3:4-6 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
What I find in the Scriptures are that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each individuals, each are God, and that there is only One God.
There are many ways people use to try to describe or understand this doctrine (teaching) of the Trinity, all fall short.
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Actually i mentioned genesis where god (plural) created the heavens and the earth,
i also mentioned Is 48 where the God of Israel said he was sent by the father and the spirit,
I also asked who Jesus prayed to himself? (John 17) and who the father was going to send in his name (John 14]
I would expect people with knowledge of the word to know what passages I spoke of. and not be so quick to claim I never mentioned any of the word
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
I have to admit, I'm confused by this thread. Please, forgive me.
I get that you are making the case against the Trinity, which my studies of scripture have confirmed to me as well.
But there seem to be quite a few verses that contradict the point you seem to be making about Jesus not being God.
See, my understanding is that Jesus IS God, but there is no Trinity. I just don't find any teaching of the Trinity anywhere in scripture. Most who oppose that perspective will present the same verses over and over like Matt. 28:19 and 1 John 5:7, which are not a TEACHING of the concept of the Trinity at all; they are single verses only that do not elaborate at all on the concept.
OR many will present verses proving God and Jesus, but this still begs the question of where's the 3rd "person" of the Trinity?
My confusion about what is being presented in this thread is based on my discovery of many verses that show Jesus to BE God; and in my experience of studying The Word, I believe Jesus is actually the Father Himself.
Here are some verses to make my case. (Place your cursor over each verse)
Jesus IS God:
He doesn't object to being worshiped. (John 9:38)
The Word was God and was Jesus. (John 1:1, John 1:14)
Jesus IS The Father:
Compare these verses. Who does the "drawing"? (John 6:44, John 12:32, John 14:6)
If you've seen Jesus, you've seen the Father (John 14:7-9)
How do you get to the Father, how do you get to the Son? (John 6:44, John 14:6)
This verse interchanges The Father and Son. (1 John 5:20)
Jesus is called The Everlasting Father centuries before He is even born. (Isaiah 9:6)
The Father and Son are both Creator. (Isaiah 40:28)(John 1:1-3)
The Father and Son both send the Holy Spirit. (John 14:26, John 15:26)
Jesus and Father are ONE. (John 10:38)
There are MANY more if anybody is interested. Literally pages of them.
I get that you are making the case against the Trinity, which my studies of scripture have confirmed to me as well.
But there seem to be quite a few verses that contradict the point you seem to be making about Jesus not being God.
See, my understanding is that Jesus IS God, but there is no Trinity. I just don't find any teaching of the Trinity anywhere in scripture. Most who oppose that perspective will present the same verses over and over like Matt. 28:19 and 1 John 5:7, which are not a TEACHING of the concept of the Trinity at all; they are single verses only that do not elaborate at all on the concept.
OR many will present verses proving God and Jesus, but this still begs the question of where's the 3rd "person" of the Trinity?
My confusion about what is being presented in this thread is based on my discovery of many verses that show Jesus to BE God; and in my experience of studying The Word, I believe Jesus is actually the Father Himself.
Here are some verses to make my case. (Place your cursor over each verse)
Jesus IS God:
He doesn't object to being worshiped. (John 9:38)
The Word was God and was Jesus. (John 1:1, John 1:14)
Jesus IS The Father:
Compare these verses. Who does the "drawing"? (John 6:44, John 12:32, John 14:6)
If you've seen Jesus, you've seen the Father (John 14:7-9)
How do you get to the Father, how do you get to the Son? (John 6:44, John 14:6)
This verse interchanges The Father and Son. (1 John 5:20)
Jesus is called The Everlasting Father centuries before He is even born. (Isaiah 9:6)
The Father and Son are both Creator. (Isaiah 40:28)(John 1:1-3)
The Father and Son both send the Holy Spirit. (John 14:26, John 15:26)
Jesus and Father are ONE. (John 10:38)
There are MANY more if anybody is interested. Literally pages of them.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
So when the father left he he was alive spiritually?
I this I see the issue here, you have no understanding of spiritual vs physical death
spiritual death was the penalty of sin,
physical death was a result of sin.
I was made alive in Christ because Christ was made dead on my behalf.
that’s why Jesus said paid in full, then gave up the ghost.
funny how you never respond to words I give spoken in scripture Why is that?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You think he believes Jesus is just a man. Maybe that answers a lot of what he is saying
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
How can Jesus be the father if he prayed to the father
how can he be that father if he said no one has seen the father
how can Jesus be the father if he said the father will send the spirit
how can he be the father if the father sent him
how can he be the father if he is the so?
I can ask many more questions but I pray you see the point
God is a spirit. He does not die. The male pronoun doesn't even apply. God is spirit.
Blood sealed the new covenant as was tradition. The flesh was nailed to the cross, the blood flowed.
Those who heard Jesus teaching about "this temple" would fall, in three days would rise again would believe in him and his ministry when this "man" who they witnessed died on the cross, as they would have witnessed many times being crucifixion was a common Roman punishment, resurrected in three days.
Jesus walked the earth for 40 more days continuing his ministry. A man in a glorified form. Holy Spirit infusing the properties that make the human form visible. All, of and from God, in the beginning.
Therein proving, life is a transition. Death does not hold the spirit of the holy.
Hallelujah!
One God, one faith, one baptism.
No comment on my content? Just a quick jab and off on your way?
There is a lot in the Bible about this. Feel free to take some time.
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No apology necessary!
But the spirit is not working in you if you say Jesus is his own father.
Create you own Thread, and we can discuss it further.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure, but apparently He is.
Nobody could "see" the Father in Him. He had to inform them that He WAS the Father.
Because Jesus also stated HE would send the Spirit.
Because God stepped into His own story. The Author stepped onto the stage.
Because The Father exists in Spirit and when He divinely induced the pregnancy of Mary, He chose to call that physical being His Son/The Son. A physical child of a spiritual being is not something we can easily understand.
No, it's pretty clear you were in such a hurry to respond that you didn't even LOOK at all the verses I posted.
Try again.
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GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Why do I need to create my own thread, I'm commenting in YOUR Thread about the topic you have presented for all to comment upon. ????????
The Spirit doesn't work like the Physical. He can be His own Father if God sent HIMSELF into the flesh which is exactly what the Bible teaches. DOES IT NOT??
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
this makes no sense whatsoever
[quoteA]Because Jesus also stated HE would send the Spirit.[/quote]
this does not prove you point, circumstantial at best
he was sent by the father we are told this even in the Old Testament, where he said he was sent at that time by the father and the spirit, Jesus at this time had yet to be born into a human body
Ok, yet Jesus said before Abraham was he always existed, so again, not really proving your point
the one you questions should be the son, The father said behold my son in whom I am well pleased. How could Jesus say that while he was standing there being baptized by John?
Maybe I will try again when you give me reasonable answers.
Notice how Jesus denies their pretense; their false charge-
John 10: 31- Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32- but Jesus said to them,
"I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
33- "We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for
blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
34- Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are
"Gods" '?
35- If he called them 'Gods,' to whom the word of God came and Scripture
cannot be broken
36 -what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent
into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said,
'I am God's son'?
37- Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38- But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works,
that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the
Father."
39- Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
HMMMMM! Clergy (like the Pharisees) say Jesus IS God Almighty.
Jesus himself denied it, saying he was His SON, instead.
WHICH should we believe??????????????
John 10: 31- Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32- but Jesus said to them,
"I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
33- "We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for
blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
34- Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are
"Gods" '?
35- If he called them 'Gods,' to whom the word of God came and Scripture
cannot be broken
36 -what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent
into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said,
'I am God's son'?
37- Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38- But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works,
that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the
Father."
39- Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
HMMMMM! Clergy (like the Pharisees) say Jesus IS God Almighty.
Jesus himself denied it, saying he was His SON, instead.
WHICH should we believe??????????????
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Actually he asked them to which of the works they planned to stone them
he also told them before abraham was, he always existed, and they threatened to stone him there also, how could Jesus exist before Abraham if he was not born for over 2000 years after Abraham was born?
Answer's here~
Heb 1:1- In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; 2- but in these last days he has spoken to us by a son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
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