John 1:1 looked at HONESTLY!
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If Jesus is God then why is he seeking glory from another?
Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him." (John 17:1-2)
"So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth." (John 1:14)
“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. (Matthew 24:36)
Doesn't Jesus call his Father the only true God in (John 17:3)?
Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him." (John 17:1-2)
"So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth." (John 1:14)
“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. (Matthew 24:36)
Doesn't Jesus call his Father the only true God in (John 17:3)?
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matthew 1:23
Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 14:9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Matthew 1:22-23
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
Was Jesus God? | Bible.org
Mark 2
"No one can forgive sins but God alone”
Isaiah 7:14 (NET)
7:14 For this reason the Lord himself will give you a confirming sign. Look, this young woman is about to conceive and will give birth to a son. You, young woman, will name him Immanuel.
Isaiah 9:6 (NET)
9:6 For a child has been born to us,a son has been given to us.He shoulders responsibility and is called Wonderful Adviser, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Matthew 1:23
Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 14:9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Matthew 1:22-23
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
Was Jesus God? | Bible.org
Mark 2
"No one can forgive sins but God alone”
Isaiah 7:14 (NET)
7:14 For this reason the Lord himself will give you a confirming sign. Look, this young woman is about to conceive and will give birth to a son. You, young woman, will name him Immanuel.
Isaiah 9:6 (NET)
9:6 For a child has been born to us,a son has been given to us.He shoulders responsibility and is called Wonderful Adviser, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
As with Trinitarians, words of our Lord Jesus have no bearing.
THAT'S why we are covering his words....
THAT'S why we are covering his words....
John 8:25- "Who are you?" they asked.
[Did Jesus say I AM? I AM God? I'm part of the Trinity? 1/3 God? A Triune Godhead, the Triunity, Co-Equal God Beings, Godhead, a Hypostaic Union, Divine essences, Divine Natures, a God-the-Son, a God-the-GHOST, Hypostasis, Homoousios, Perichoresis , a Godman, Omnipresence, Incarnation, a God who is a Sacred Mystery, a God 'in three persons', Dual natures, a reincarnate God, a first person of the trinity, a second person of the trinity, a third person of the trinity, Godness, a Tri-Unity or a multipersonal God? Did he use any weird illustrative example like a egg, a triangle, etc?]
"Just what I have been telling you from the beginning," Jesus replied.
26- "I have much to say in judgment of you. But He who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from Him I tell the world."
27- They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.
28- So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do
NOTHING on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
29 -The One who sent me is with me; He has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases Him."
30- Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.
Over and over he showed who the True God WAS- yet CHURCHianity has ignored him for almost 2,000 years!
[Did Jesus say I AM? I AM God? I'm part of the Trinity? 1/3 God? A Triune Godhead, the Triunity, Co-Equal God Beings, Godhead, a Hypostaic Union, Divine essences, Divine Natures, a God-the-Son, a God-the-GHOST, Hypostasis, Homoousios, Perichoresis , a Godman, Omnipresence, Incarnation, a God who is a Sacred Mystery, a God 'in three persons', Dual natures, a reincarnate God, a first person of the trinity, a second person of the trinity, a third person of the trinity, Godness, a Tri-Unity or a multipersonal God? Did he use any weird illustrative example like a egg, a triangle, etc?]
"Just what I have been telling you from the beginning," Jesus replied.
26- "I have much to say in judgment of you. But He who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from Him I tell the world."
27- They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.
28- So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do
NOTHING on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
29 -The One who sent me is with me; He has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases Him."
30- Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.
Over and over he showed who the True God WAS- yet CHURCHianity has ignored him for almost 2,000 years!
HEBREWS 1: GOD THE FATHER ADDRESSES GOD THE SON
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: [as confirmed in John 1:1-3]
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT INSPIRED THE SCRIPTURES
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2 Tim 3:16)
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Pet 1:20,21)
Who made that statement? It wasn't those who believed in Jesus Christ as the Son of man.
See~~~> Now some of the scribes were there, sitting and reasoning in their hearts: Who can forgive sins except one, God? (Mark 2:6-7)
So why did Jesus heal the man in front of them. Not to prove he is God as opposers of the Christ claim, but rather to show he had authority as the Son of Man.
See~~~> But in order for you to know that the Son of man has authority to forgive sins on earth—” he said to the paralytic: “I say to you, Get up, pick up your stretcher, and go to your home.”(Mark 2:10-11)
John 8:39- "Abraham is our father," they answered. "If you were Abraham's children,"
said Jesus, "then you would do what Abraham did. 40- As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.
[Yet AGAIN Jesus speaks of God as someone else, NEVER claiming to be a part of Him!]
41-You are doing the works of your own father." "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself." 42 -Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here.
I have not come on my own; but He sent me.
43- Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
44- You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires.
He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies,
he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
45- Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
46- Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, WHY don't you believe me?
47- Whoever belongs to God HEARS what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
48- The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"
49- "I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor ME.
50- I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.
51- Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."
52- At this they exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets,
yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death.
53- Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
54- Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the One who glorifies me.
55- Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word.
56- Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57- "You are not yet fifty years old," they said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58- "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I was!"
[My insertion: all other translations deceptively put "AM"]
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
"Ego Eimi" was used by Gabriel, John, Paul, Peter, Timothy, etc... Matt 26:25- And Judas, who was betraying Him, said, "Surely it is not I [ ego eimi] , Rabbi?"
Judas used the EXACT WORDS Jesus did at John 8:58, where translators deceive trinitarians into thinking the ancient symbolic
HEBREW (not even IT) name God used only ONE TIME was being used!)
Was Judas part of the 'Trinity'?
said Jesus, "then you would do what Abraham did. 40- As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.
[Yet AGAIN Jesus speaks of God as someone else, NEVER claiming to be a part of Him!]
41-You are doing the works of your own father." "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself." 42 -Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here.
I have not come on my own; but He sent me.
43- Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
44- You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires.
He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies,
he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
45- Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
46- Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, WHY don't you believe me?
47- Whoever belongs to God HEARS what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
48- The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"
49- "I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor ME.
50- I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.
51- Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."
52- At this they exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets,
yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death.
53- Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
54- Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the One who glorifies me.
55- Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word.
56- Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57- "You are not yet fifty years old," they said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58- "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I was!"
[My insertion: all other translations deceptively put "AM"]
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
"Ego Eimi" was used by Gabriel, John, Paul, Peter, Timothy, etc... Matt 26:25- And Judas, who was betraying Him, said, "Surely it is not I [ ego eimi] , Rabbi?"
Judas used the EXACT WORDS Jesus did at John 8:58, where translators deceive trinitarians into thinking the ancient symbolic
HEBREW (not even IT) name God used only ONE TIME was being used!)
Was Judas part of the 'Trinity'?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
John 8 could be the most damning to trinitarianism in the entire Bible.
John 4:23- But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth,
for such the Father seeks to worship him. 24- God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
Why didn't Jesus say to worship 'Himself'?
Why didn't Jesus say to worship a 'Holy Ghost'?
Why did Jesus say worship a 'Trinity'"
Did he say we must worship God INSIDE a 'Holy Ghost'- or does "spirit" really refer to the power of the one whom is being referred to?
for such the Father seeks to worship him. 24- God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
Why didn't Jesus say to worship 'Himself'?
Why didn't Jesus say to worship a 'Holy Ghost'?
Why did Jesus say worship a 'Trinity'"
Did he say we must worship God INSIDE a 'Holy Ghost'- or does "spirit" really refer to the power of the one whom is being referred to?
John 10:12- He who is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13- He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep.
14- I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me, 15- as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my >>> LIFE <<<< [NOT just the body!] for the sheep.
16- And I have other sheep [ Gentiles/Future disciples ] , that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my LIFE, that I may take it again.
18- No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this authority I have received from my Father.
2 Cor 5:15- And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
JESUS died- NOT just his body.
GOD never died- but JESUS did.
14- I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me, 15- as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my >>> LIFE <<<< [NOT just the body!] for the sheep.
16- And I have other sheep [ Gentiles/Future disciples ] , that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my LIFE, that I may take it again.
18- No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this authority I have received from my Father.
2 Cor 5:15- And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
JESUS died- NOT just his body.
GOD never died- but JESUS did.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Why did Jesus not say worship himself?
because he was admitting he was not the father.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Jesus body died
he himself immediately left the body, he was still alive
he also died spiritually before he died physically
again, your arguments are fine. But they are lacking understanding
Thus Churchianity says he was ALIVE!
He lied to his followers?
He floated out as an 'immortal soul' , and floated back into the corpse?
Death and Resurrection mean the SAME THING; just the destination being different?
The infamous spin of the clergy 'proving' Christ to be God:
John 10: 22- Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23- and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon's Colonnade.
24- The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, "How long will
you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."
[Was God, or 1/3 God, His/Their own MESSIAH?]
25- Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in
my Father's name testify about me,
26- but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27- My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28- I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch
them out of my hand.
29- My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can
snatch them out of my Father's hand.
30- I and the Father are one."
Is Jesus his own FATHER?
Let's skip ahead to the 17th Chapter to see what was meant~
John 17:6- I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
7 -Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.
8- For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
9- I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
10- All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
11- I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
20 - I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21- that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
So, another Trini-tactic dissolves in smoke; from these words, it is CLEAR that when Jesus said he and his Father were One- he wasn't talking Identity!
And notice the reference to the Name of God?
Just because later copyists removed it, and it wasn't in the Koine Greek language it doesn't destroy it: Jehovah (Yehovah)!
Jehovah said it would be His FOREVER!
John 10: 22- Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23- and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon's Colonnade.
24- The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, "How long will
you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."
[Was God, or 1/3 God, His/Their own MESSIAH?]
25- Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in
my Father's name testify about me,
26- but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27- My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28- I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch
them out of my hand.
29- My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can
snatch them out of my Father's hand.
30- I and the Father are one."
Is Jesus his own FATHER?
Let's skip ahead to the 17th Chapter to see what was meant~
John 17:6- I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
7 -Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.
8- For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
9- I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
10- All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
11- I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
20 - I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21- that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
So, another Trini-tactic dissolves in smoke; from these words, it is CLEAR that when Jesus said he and his Father were One- he wasn't talking Identity!
And notice the reference to the Name of God?
Just because later copyists removed it, and it wasn't in the Koine Greek language it doesn't destroy it: Jehovah (Yehovah)!
Jehovah said it would be His FOREVER!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No we did not lie
he died spiritually when he cried out my god my god why has thou forsaken me,
then he said it is finished. The literal translation being paid in full
the payment for sin was completed before he gave up the spirit
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
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