So, are Daniel 7:25 and Amos 8:11-12 related in prophecy?

[Truth7t7]

Good at least you aren't a Preterist, I and communicate well with them.
Agreed with all that except Antichrist in Jerusalem - doesn't have to be there, but you are basing this on the New Temple that He stands in. I don't think a New Temple would a be holy place - but that is another topic

Okay, getting somewhere. Pro-Tribber. Im a Mjd- Trib adherent -out with the 7th (last) Trumpet sound with still more tribulation in the 7 Bowls of God's wrath left.

You take everything literally except for that verse. Isaiah 65 seems to be describing Paradise reborn as it once was on earth. This will be a new earth, but also a new heaven will be created which would explain things. In heaven there will be no more marriage, we will have new bodies. But on earth, harmony amoung animals, woman having babies, death and the curse still in existence speaks of the literal Millennial Kingdom, a paradise in earth, not heaven.
So after the 1000 years, Satan is released for a short time and those who have been born during this time will be tested once again as it literally says, with wars against God and a final judgement of those Millennial sinners. This explains That people will once again live for 1000 years and thise who die 100 years old will be concidered children. Babies will be born, infants playing with cobras is not something going in in heaven. After the 1000 years is when the second death happens - all literal. Blessed are those who do not have to suffer this second death.
So, soon a Great Tribulation as literally spoken of, a literal 1000 years where Christ will literally rule the earth in Jerusalem and then another test when Satan is released, then a New Jerusalem.
Symbolism is evident in scripture. But Jesus will literally return as we saw him leave and He will stand on the mountain in Jerusalem, He will judge the world and rule as King. People throw in symbolism when a verse describing an event just doesn't fit in with their view.

Kind of seems like the Partial Pretersists influenced you a bit, if you are Amillennial?

No Preterist influence whatsoever, just scriptural truth

Ron you disregard the plain and clear teaching of the New Heaven and Earth created in Isaiah, and you sluff it off with the word "Heaven" trying to create two different places, the slight of hand didn't work, the pea is under the shell in the middle

Isaiah 65 & and Revelation 21 is the same exact place in the New Heaven And Earth as seen below, We Will Disagree

Create, make all things New, Former things passed away, no more tears, crying, weeping, and the explanation of a child dying 100 years old, is showing a symbolic eternal in no more death, it's not a literal child dying, the word Hundred could have been Trillion, that seen is the same exact place.

Jesus Is The Lord

(Isaiah) 65:17-20KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Truth7t7]

Good at least you aren't a Preterist, I and communicate well with them.
Agreed with all that except Antichrist in Jerusalem - doesn't have to be there, but you are basing this on the New Temple that He stands in. I don't think a New Temple would a be holy place - but that is another topic

Okay, getting somewhere. Pro-Tribber. Im a Mjd- Trib adherent -out with the 7th (last) Trumpet sound with still more tribulation in the 7 Bowls of God's wrath left.

You take everything literally except for that verse. Isaiah 65 seems to be describing Paradise reborn as it once was on earth. This will be a new earth, but also a new heaven will be created which would explain things. In heaven there will be no more marriage, we will have new bodies. But on earth, harmony amoung animals, woman having babies, death and the curse still in existence speaks of the literal Millennial Kingdom, a paradise in earth, not heaven.
So after the 1000 years, Satan is released for a short time and those who have been born during this time will be tested once again as it literally says, with wars against God and a final judgement of those Millennial sinners. This explains That people will once again live for 1000 years and thise who die 100 years old will be concidered children. Babies will be born, infants playing with cobras is not something going in in heaven. After the 1000 years is when the second death happens - all literal. Blessed are those who do not have to suffer this second death.
So, soon a Great Tribulation as literally spoken of, a literal 1000 years where Christ will literally rule the earth in Jerusalem and then another test when Satan is released, then a New Jerusalem.
Symbolism is evident in scripture. But Jesus will literally return as we saw him leave and He will stand on the mountain in Jerusalem, He will judge the world and rule as King. People throw in symbolism when a verse describing an event just doesn't fit in with their view.

Kind of seems like the Partial Pretersists influenced you a bit, if you are Amillennial?

Ron The Lord "Appears" "Reveals" In Fire, The Earth And World Are Burned At His "Presence"

Ron There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Good at least you aren't a Preterist, I and communicate well with them.
Agreed with all that except Antichrist in Jerusalem - doesn't have to be there, but you are basing this on the New Temple that He stands in. I don't think a New Temple would a be holy place - but that is another topic

Okay, getting somewhere. Pro-Tribber. Im a Mjd- Trib adherent -out with the 7th (last) Trumpet sound with still more tribulation in the 7 Bowls of God's wrath left.

You take everything literally except for that verse. Isaiah 65 seems to be describing Paradise reborn as it once was on earth. This will be a new earth, but also a new heaven will be created which would explain things. In heaven there will be no more marriage, we will have new bodies. But on earth, harmony amoung animals, woman having babies, death and the curse still in existence speaks of the literal Millennial Kingdom, a paradise in earth, not heaven.
So after the 1000 years, Satan is released for a short time and those who have been born during this time will be tested once again as it literally says, with wars against God and a final judgement of those Millennial sinners. This explains That people will once again live for 1000 years and thise who die 100 years old will be concidered children. Babies will be born, infants playing with cobras is not something going in in heaven. After the 1000 years is when the second death happens - all literal. Blessed are those who do not have to suffer this second death.
So, soon a Great Tribulation as literally spoken of, a literal 1000 years where Christ will literally rule the earth in Jerusalem and then another test when Satan is released, then a New Jerusalem.
Symbolism is evident in scripture. But Jesus will literally return as we saw him leave and He will stand on the mountain in Jerusalem, He will judge the world and rule as King. People throw in symbolism when a verse describing an event just doesn't fit in with their view.

Kind of seems like the Partial Pretersists influenced you a bit, if you are Amillennial?

Ron can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)?

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time?

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Waiting on him]

It's future. You have'nt seen wolves playing with sheep, babies playing with cobras have you, total harmony in nature without sin?

As a matter of fact I read about it in the epistles.
Luke 10:19 KJV
[19] Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
And they spoke with new new new tongues and drank of poisons and tread on serpents, you see the same thing here every day.

 

[Waiting on him]

Your suggestion that man being a new creature in Jesus Christ, dosent replace the fact of a future New Heaven and Earth that is seen in Revelation 21:1-5

Do you hold to a Preterist view of eschatology?

If so, partial or full?

Historicism as the reformers taught?

Sproul, Riddlebarger?

Why would I need someone else’s view?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ron within the Calvary Chapels the common teaching of a Millennium is supported by Revelation 20:1-6 as you state, and its taught that Jesus returns in a primary judgement as seen in Matthew 25:31-46 sheep/goat

They teach Jesus walks physically on earth taking a literal throne of David in Jerusalem, with a Jewish priesthood in Jerusalem in a rebuilt temple, as mortal humans on earth are present, is this your belief?

Minus this: [with a Jewish priesthood in Jerusalem in a rebuilt temple]
No temple is necessary. Remember, I am not Pre-Trib.
A remnant Jewish population (all Israel as stated in Rom. 11) will be saved, therefore converted Christians. All people will bow their knee to our King, visit him, worship him. Paradise reborn, a new earth. Why wouldn't it be new, with Satan and his horse locked up, sin pit down ... peace in earth.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ron you disregard the plain and clear teaching of the New Heaven and Earth created in Isaiah, and you sluff it off with the word "Heaven" trying to create two different places, the slight of hand didn't work, the pea is under the shell in the middle

You sluff off earth as if it is the same thing as heaven. It does say new earth AND new heaven.
I do believe the New Jerusalem (the new heaven) will replace the first earth and first heaven after it is destroyed _ after the Millennial Kingdom. 2 Peter 3:10 is that time when the earth and heavens burn in a fervent heat. What would be the point of Jesus returning to earth if He was just going to do that?
IF THE WHOLE EARTH IS COMPLETELY DESTROYED WITH FIRE WHEN HE RETURNS WHY WOULD GOD DETAIL ALL THE EVENTS IN THE SEALS, TRUMPETS, BOWLS? These events consist of not just fire, but pestilence, wars, famine, demonic scorpion/ locusts who torture man for 5 months, a worldwide earthquake that causes all structures, mountains and islands to level, super volcanic eruptions (Deut. 32:22). And then after all the destruction, Israel will take 7 months to bury the dead. (EZEK. 39:12)
You seem to skip over all that stuff. Where would they bury the dead? In the first earth - which is not destroyed until After the 1000 years.
Why would God go through all that if His judgment was total? The key is, THERE ARE TWO JUDGMENTS SEPARATED BY 1000 YEARS

Ron The Lord "Appears" "Reveals" In Fire, The Earth And World Are Burned At His "Presence"

Sure, Zech. 14:12 is a description of the effects of a nuclear/ neutron bomb: your flesh is burned and dissolved as you stand on your feet.
Reminds me of that scene at the end of Raiders Of the Lost Ark.

Ron There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

2 Peter 3:10 is not the Great Tribulation _ a 3 1/2 year period _ a time of stress like no other. A sudden blaze of fire that melts the elements is not exactly 1260 days of stress - that would be sudden, no time time to stress - minutes before death or seconds.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;

Absolutely. The New Jerusalem. Amazing, 1400 miles x 1400 miles x 1400 miles, streets of gold, pearly gates ...

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of hea

Rev. 6:12. Either an eclipse, but most likely effects of the smoke from 1/3 of the planet being on fire. Blood moon happens periodically, this time, blocked by smoke. Stars are Sun's, huge, cannot actually fall to earth. This is probably meteor/ asteroid shower or missiles flying.
After the seals and trumpets, He returns at the 7th Trumpet and still more tribulation comes in the bowls of wrath. Notice in the SEALS, TRUMPETS and bowls, destruction is to mankind and only part of the earth. Part of mankind is killed by pestilence (as we will see soon), part by wars, part by famine, beasts of the earth (animals will go insane and start attacking humans); 1/3 of the planet in fire, 1/3 of the fish in the sea killed, 1/3 of the ships destroyed (probably from that worldwide earthquake and volcanic eruptions causing tsunamis)
See you point out "tribulation of those days" without even thinking if that conforms to your total annihilation of the earth with fire. Why all the drama in practically 13 chapters of the Bible, if He was just going to toast the earth in one blast?

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Right, our works will be tested with fire -at the Great White Throne judgment. Only treasures in heaven matter, things eternal, not material.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

That was two towns along NE Dead Sea where there is a history of volcanic activity. The Great Syrian African Rift (3500 miles long) goes right through there. It has many inactive and active volcanos.

Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Absolutely. To remove sin and evil from the earth, clean it up, make it livable for a 1000 years. It says Satan and his Antichrist is locked up for 1000 years, then jjdged and THEN Hades and Death are thrown intobthe LAKE OF FIRE AND DESTROYED - THAT IS HELL, MORE OF AN EVENT THEN A PLACE. THE PLACE IS EARTH BEING BURNED. That is 2 Pet. 3:10

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

I am familiar with all the end time prophecies. I wrote a book based on 570 of the most powerful scriptures in the Bible and dedicated four chapters to this very topic. It doesn't make me right, it just means I have done some serious research.

Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Consume = melt, dissolve as in burn quickly before your bones drop.
Effects of a nuclear or neutron bomb. Of course Christ could do this as well.
I think all of Isaiah 65 is to be taken literally. You discard verse 20 so easily cause it diesnt wirk with yiur view- "Oh, that one's symbolic, bla, bla, bla."

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ron can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)?

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time?

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The Isaiah 65 and 11 both describe an earthly kingdom.
The Davidic Covenant was not revoked.
2 Sam. 7:16
Isaiah 2:4
ISAIAH 43:5-6
You quoted Zech. 14:12, but did you read the whole chapter? Verses 1-11, 16, 17 are important.
Look em up, getting worn out ... but not vexed!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

As a matter of fact I read about it in the epistles.
Luke 10:19 KJV
[19] Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
And they spoke with new new new tongues and drank of poisons and tread on serpents, you see the same thing here every day.

Spiritual gifts and powers aren't needed in Paradise, where there is no sin, just peace and harmony.

 

[Oseas]

No the fulfilling of the gentiles in Jerusalem has not "Arrived", this is a future event when literal gentile armies surround and "occupy" Jerusalem in its destruction

See, the fullness of Gentiles has to do with a period of time of salvation of them having beginning and ending, it has nothing to do with "literal gentile armies surround and "accuping' Jerusalem in its destruction", according your supposition or speculation, oh no, absolutely, neither has with destruction of Jerusalem according your imagination or opinion, but exclusively with a period of time.

What will really happen in the great city of Jerusalem from now on, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, has nothing to do with things like you posted above, but nothing.


That said and knowing that the material things are figures of spiritual things (the parables of the Lord for example),
how do we must interpret the words of JESUS when He say: "Destroy this temple, and in three Days I will raise it up,
But he spake of the temple of His body", the Church.
In His mind, JESUS was speaking of His Church that He would go to build in three Days. Don't you think that this is marvelous?
Well, the third Day has already gotten, and the words of JESUS will really fulfill LITERALLY hence forwards or from now on.


We are living in the beginning of the first century of the seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, and the fullness of Gentiles. You and ALL know: GOD the Father was still working when He sent JESUS here around two thousand years ago or two Days ago-John 5:v.17. One Day with the LORD is as a thousand years, so it is clear we are living in the beginning of the seventh and last millennium, the Millennium of Christ, the Millennium of the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Millennium of Vengeance, the Millennium of Truth, the Millennium of His Kingdom.


What will happen in the great city of Jerusalem, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, is revealed in Revelation 11:v.1-2 among others, it is determined to happen from the beginning of the last week, the 70th week of Daniel 9:v.27 until the end of the Abomination of Desolation-Daniel 12:v.11- for 1,290 days, that is the 2nd period of the last week.


The first half of the week -1,260 days or 42 months, will be ruled by the blasphemer Man Beast of sea with his MONSTROUS religious system of 7 heads, and 10 horns, and NAME of blasphemy-Revelation 13:v.1 and 5 combined with Revelation 11:v.2. These things are at door.

Get ready

No the heathen, believer, or christian, isnt symbolic of being "Dissolved"

I did not say anything symbolic in the post; its you are saying, inventing that.

The Lords fire will take place at his future second coming, as the heavens and earth are "Dissolved" by his fire in judgement

But what kind of FIRE do you think will be applied in Judgment according Scriptures, that is, in the Judgment Seat of Christ?

 

[Oseas]

Daniel 7:25 is still in the future.

The Antichrist is given power for 42 months, 3.5 years, to give the mark, and make war with, and overcome the saints.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

That’s the second half of the tribulation, aka the great tribulation.

To all
... the night cometh, when no man can work. John 9:v.4
Today is May 27, 2021 - Daniel 7:v.25 is still in the future, it means the prophecy will still be fulfilled in the near future, I mean in this current decade - 2020-2030.


The period "until a time and times and the dividing of time" refers to Revelation 11:v.1-2 (1,260 days or 42 months) and Revelation 13:v.5 (42 months or 1,260 days) , and this period is LITERALLY the FIRST half of the last week - the 70th of Daniel 9:v.27 - whose period will be ruled by the Man Beast of sea- the Pope- to whom the dragon - the Man Beast of earth-Revelation 13:v.11 - will give his Power, and his Throne (in JERUSALEM called Sodom and Egypt-Revelation 11:v.8), and great Authority-Revelation 13:v.2-, and the inhabitants of the earth(Israel 10 tribes-10 kings)-will worship the Man Beast of sea-the Pope- enthroned in Jerusalem infested of idolatry and witchcraft-and will fulfill LITERALLY 2 Thessalonians 2:v.3 and 9-12:

• 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: (mainly the Man Beast of sea-the Pope-, and the Man Beast of earth-the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah of the Jews, a false messiah of the Jews) for that day -the Lord's Day- the seventh and last Day - shall not come, except there come a falling away first(TOTAL APOSTASY), and that man of sin be revealed-THE BEAST OF EARTH-, the son of perdition;

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

11 And for this cause GOD shall send them - sent to Israel- strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (should believe in the Vicarivs Filii Dei - the Beast of sea - the Pope - the Papacy)

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Be careful or get ready ... ... the night cometh, when no man can work. John 9:v.4

 

[Waiting on him]

Spiritual gifts and powers aren't needed in Paradise, where there is no sin, just peace and harmony.

That’s an interesting perspective.

 

[Davy]

I originally misinterpreted the OP, thought he was actually talking about the message and were these prophecies, these changes/ events happeninng in the world today. But he was referring to just words in the text, different from his precious KJV only. Wrestling with words like "vex" or "wear out", "east" and "south". The world is on the precipice of the Great Tribulation and he's concerned about the destructive evil parh of modern translations. Vexed, worn out, south, east ... we will all be worn out if not vexed during these times. How about the KJV words for pestilence, war, famine and DEATH; it sure seems that the modern translations passed those words on correctly?
I

In Mark 13:8 Lord Jesus foretold us about these times, the beginnings of sorrows (i.e., birth pangs). He said we hear of wars and rumors of wars, but don't be troubled for those things must happen, but the end is not yet. That last phrase of Mark 13:7 is a major contrast marker between the time of sorrows just prior to the great trib, and the time of the great trib.

God's Word reveals the very end of this world, i.e, the time of "great tribulation" Lord Jesus warned of, would be a time of world peace. It's the future trib time that Daniel 7:25 is pointing to with the appearance of a false-Messiah proclaiming to be God in Jerusalem. Apostle Paul warned us of that in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 for the end, as Lord Jesus did also in Matthew 24:23-26.

I spend a lot of time trying to get brethren to understand about that coming Antichrist in our near future that will cause the "great tribulation". They do not understand it will be a time of fake world peace, all wars having stopped ("who is able to make war with him?" - Revelation 13:4). That is the time Lord Jesus was showing in Mark 13:7 about war and the end. As long as wars are going on, the end is not yet. We are to recognize the end (i.e., the tribulation) when all wars have ended. And WHY... is that?

It's because God is allowing the future Antichrist to be setup as God on earth, working great signs and miracles, as a final test for this world, as it will do a whole lot... of pruning. Only those who remain faithful waiting on our Lord Jesus to return to defeat that coming Antichrist will be with Christ at His gathering of His saints. All others will fall away to wrongly worship that Antichrist. Thinking to fly away before the trib certainly is not a sign of being ready to stand with Lord Jesus waiting on Him. So truly, this coming false-Messiah-Antichrist isn't going to play a tyrant; he is coming in place of our Lord Jesus Christ to try and get the deceived to worship him in place of God. That is the main battle for the end of this world, Satan wants our soul, not our flesh.

Thus considering those Scriptures, what purpose would it be that many at the end will be looking everywhere for The Word of God and not finding it? It will guarantee that only those who call on The LORD will find it, and thus be given understanding for the end, and thus not be deceived.

 

[Oseas]

That’s an interesting perspective.

Whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away, whether there be prophecies, they shall be annihilated;
for we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 1 Cor.13:v.8-10

 

[Truth7t7]

You sluff off earth as if it is the same thing as heaven. It does say new earth AND new heaven.
I do believe the New Jerusalem (the new heaven) will replace the first earth and first heaven after it is destroyed _ after the Millennial Kingdom. 2 Peter 3:10 is that time when the earth and heavens burn in a fervent heat. What would be the point of Jesus returning to earth if He was just going to do that?
IF THE WHOLE EARTH IS COMPLETELY DESTROYED WITH FIRE WHEN HE RETURNS WHY WOULD GOD DETAIL ALL THE EVENTS IN THE SEALS, TRUMPETS, BOWLS? These events consist of not just fire, but pestilence, wars, famine, demonic scorpion/ locusts who torture man for 5 months, a worldwide earthquake that causes all structures, mountains and islands to level, super volcanic eruptions (Deut. 32:22). And then after all the destruction, Israel will take 7 months to bury the dead. (EZEK. 39:12)
You seem to skip over all that stuff. Where would they bury the dead? In the first earth - which is not destroyed until After the 1000 years.
Why would God go through all that if His judgment was total? The key is, THERE ARE TWO JUDGMENTS SEPARATED BY 1000 YEARS


Sure, Zech. 14:12 is a description of the effects of a nuclear/ neutron bomb: your flesh is burned and dissolved as you stand on your feet.
Reminds me of that scene at the end of Raiders Of the Lost Ark.


2 Peter 3:10 is not the Great Tribulation _ a 3 1/2 year period _ a time of stress like no other. A sudden blaze of fire that melts the elements is not exactly 1260 days of stress - that would be sudden, no time time to stress - minutes before death or seconds.


Absolutely. The New Jerusalem. Amazing, 1400 miles x 1400 miles x 1400 miles, streets of gold, pearly gates ...


Rev. 6:12. Either an eclipse, but most likely effects of the smoke from 1/3 of the planet being on fire. Blood moon happens periodically, this time, blocked by smoke. Stars are Sun's, huge, cannot actually fall to earth. This is probably meteor/ asteroid shower or missiles flying.
After the seals and trumpets, He returns at the 7th Trumpet and still more tribulation comes in the bowls of wrath. Notice in the SEALS, TRUMPETS and bowls, destruction is to mankind and only part of the earth. Part of mankind is killed by pestilence (as we will see soon), part by wars, part by famine, beasts of the earth (animals will go insane and start attacking humans); 1/3 of the planet in fire, 1/3 of the fish in the sea killed, 1/3 of the ships destroyed (probably from that worldwide earthquake and volcanic eruptions causing tsunamis)
See you point out "tribulation of those days" without even thinking if that conforms to your total annihilation of the earth with fire. Why all the drama in practically 13 chapters of the Bible, if He was just going to toast the earth in one blast?


Right, our works will be tested with fire -at the Great White Throne judgment. Only treasures in heaven matter, things eternal, not material.


That was two towns along NE Dead Sea where there is a history of volcanic activity. The Great Syrian African Rift (3500 miles long) goes right through there. It has many inactive and active volcanos.


Absolutely. To remove sin and evil from the earth, clean it up, make it livable for a 1000 years. It says Satan and his Antichrist is locked up for 1000 years, then jjdged and THEN Hades and Death are thrown intobthe LAKE OF FIRE AND DESTROYED - THAT IS HELL, MORE OF AN EVENT THEN A PLACE. THE PLACE IS EARTH BEING BURNED. That is 2 Pet. 3:10


I am familiar with all the end time prophecies. I wrote a book based on 570 of the most powerful scriptures in the Bible and dedicated four chapters to this very topic. It doesn't make me right, it just means I have done some serious research.


Consume = melt, dissolve as in burn quickly before your bones drop.
Effects of a nuclear or neutron bomb. Of course Christ could do this as well.
I think all of Isaiah 65 is to be taken literally. You discard verse 20 so easily cause it diesnt wirk with yiur view- "Oh, that one's symbolic, bla, bla, bla."

Thanks Ron, I have performed my calling as a messenger, you are now in possession of Gods words of truth

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Oseas]

Revelation 11:

1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the COURT which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Power is given now SIMULTANEOUSLY to the event above, to shut heaven (and there will not be more any chance of salvation of souls), power is given over waters -over peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues- , to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth (earth here is Israel) with all plagues, as often as they will, when the COURT without the temple be trodden by the Gentiles, leaded and guided by the Beast of sea-the Papacy- according to the deal made between the two Man Beasts, the Pope and the false messiah of the Jews -Revelation 13:v.2-, sat on his throne as God in the great city of Jerusalem, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. Terrible. Terrible. Revelation 11:v.3 and 6.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were(will be) angry, and thy wrath -GOD's wrath- is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that God should give reward unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear His name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth. (Israel)

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was(will be) seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were (will be) lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Get ready

 

[Oseas]

I understand those scriptures, by repeating them over and over again does not help you to resolve the question I posed.
How does Isaiah 65 harmonize with the scriptures you quoted?
Particularly verse 20???
I realize you are 84+ years old, which now allows me more patience. That also I suspect you are AMillennial, means there is a huge mental block that impedes any discernment of eschatology whatsoever. If you do not answer my question and continue to remain stuck, cornered and not answering because you can't, just admit that you dont know. It is called humility. Others on this thread seem to avoid answering questions, so their counter move is to insult, mock. Be true to yourself, be honest if you don't know, stop playing this game.

Last time: EXPLAIN ISAIAH 65. ItIt's called the Millennial Kingdom. Oops you just hit a brick wall ... oh no! It is okay, go in peace.

POST #267 [QUOTE="Ronald David Bruno, post: 1032195, member: 9416"]“Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” vs. 19[/QUOTE]

Ronald David Bruno said: ↑
Branches (un believing Jews) were broken off... (POST #267)

Reply - my POST 279
The focus of the post was to reveal that the branches which were broken off and remained unbelievers
will be cast into cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of GOD, as follow:

Revelation 14:v.17 to 20

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:v.3), he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which has power over FIRE(For what?); and cried with a loud cry to him that has the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of GOD.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

The Everlasting Spirit of GOD is a devouring/consuming FIRE

What is your point? Do you think your scriptures above have anything to do with Romans 11 scripture? I don't. Branches broken off happened during Jesus time.

POST 286

Yes, Romans 11:v.3 to 5

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


A remnant is saved

Revelation 14:v.1-3
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living beings, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were REDEEMED from the earth. (earth here is Israel)


In the Elijah's time there were only seven thousand true Israelite (Romans 11:v.3 to 5) and now, in the end of Dispensation of Grace, only 144k will be sealed and saved because believe in JESUS and love Him, in LITERAL fulfillment of Isaiah 1:v.8-9, among others.

Revelation 7:v.1-4

1 And after these things (things written in Rev.6:v.14 to 17) I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

144k male virgins. Don't ya think they would need 144k female virvins to repopulate the earth? There will be many more aavws than that. Two Witnesses prophesy and evangelize for 3 1/2 years with power in Jerusalem. Possibly Enoch and Elijah or Moses. Wouldn't that get many Jews enlightened?

1 - What spirit is that from you? I did not say anything about "144k male virgins", you invented this .

2 - I never think what you did think that I did think. You said: "Don't ya think they would need 144k female virvins to repopulate the earth?There will be many more aavws than that" What spirit is that from you? Thats the spirit of CONFUSION. You invented this bullshit

3 - You are wrong completely. You say: "Two Witnesses prophesy and evangelize for 3 1/2 years with power in Jerusalem". What you are prophesying is false, its fake, its a lie.
Power is given now to the two witnesses over waters -over peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues- , to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth (earth here is Israel) with all plagues, as often as they will, when the COURT without the temple be trodden by the Gentiles, leaded and guided by the Beast of sea-the Papacy- according to the deal made between the two Man Beasts, the Pope and the false messiah of the Jews -Revelation 13:v.2-, sat on his throne as God in the great city of Jerusalem, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. Terrible. Terrible. Revelation 11:v.3 and 6.

4 - You are wrong completely. You say: "Possibly Enoch and Elijah or Moses." Your supposition, or Presumptions, and conjectures, imaginations, speculations, opinions, mean nothing. Neither Enoch, nor Moses or Elijah, nor "the two Witnesses prophesy and evangelize for 3 1/2 years with power in Jerusalem." These things you have said are fake, are lies, they will never be fulfilled, but never, because are lies.

5 - Your are wrong completely. You say: "Wouldn't that get many Jews enlightened?" No, it is a lie. It is given to the two witnesses to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth (earth here is Israel) with all plagues, as often as they will, when the COURT without the temple be trodden by the Gentiles.

Get ready

 

[Enoch111]

Who is able to tell you where heaven is , it is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, understand?

Oseas you are very seriously confused, and trying to confuse others. Since the Word of God is presently on earth, according to you the earth is Heaven. Which is absurd.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Thanks Ron, I have performed my calling as a messenger, you are now in possession of Gods words of truth

Jesus Is The Lord

You gave me no message, don't flatter yourself. I have had God's Word for a long time and hold fast to a Pre-millennial View.
Where does the infant play with the cobra? Near his den, in the ground, on the earth. What heavenly vision is presented and introduced with animals in harmony with each other? None. God created the earth and put animals on it. All we see in Heaven are God, angels and souls. Although I would like to see my dig up there too. No, Rev. 20 and Isaiah 65 and numerous others mentioned describe a Paradise reborn on earth, a new earth, without sin and evil for 1000 years.
Regardless of your view, I appreciate a brother with a genuine desire to share their knowledge. Thank you,
GOD Bless

 

[Oseas]

Oseas you are very seriously confused, and trying to confuse others. Since the Word of God is presently on earth, according to you the earth is Heaven. Which is absurd.

Enoch, how do you say thing like that ? I am not confuse, oh no, absolutely. The Word is GOD here on earth, aren't you see Him? See, He is nearest of us in Person-Isaiah 40:v.21-22-, and if the Word is in your heart He is in you, understand? But not the letter only, but the Spirit of GOD, the Spirit gives life.

Isaiah 40:v.21-22
21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isaiah 48:v.6-7
6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

It seems you need to study better what heaven is according Scriptures, by your words you do not understand what Ephesians 1:v.3 means, neither Philippians 3:v.20-21, among many many other Scriptures.

By your words you know not how the Most High GOD PLANTS the heavens here on Earth, as is revealed in Isaiah 51:v.16 and 40:v. 21-22. Check it out.

Where do you think will be the Kingdom of GOD? Would be it in Mars with the help of NASA? Oh no, but it will be here:Revelation 5:v.10 combined with Revelation 11:v.15 to 18. The wicked nations will be furious, angry, mainly the carnal Israel leaded and guided by a false messiah, the Beast like a lamb, who has two horns, and speak as Dragon. Rev.13:v.11-18

By the way, the FIRST heaven was planted by GOD through Moses and the prophets. All things they preached for the people, for the nation of Israel, and are written in the OT came from GOD, came from Heaven, do not you know? Or do you think they invented from themselves what is written in the Old Testament? No, no no. The Word is GOD, the Wword is the LITERAL invisible GOD the father, even Him who was made flesh because the Power is in He Himself, and He inhabited among men, and whose NAME He chose by/for Him Himself - JESUS.This is the NAME of GOD.

I am speaking of things of heaven because I am in the heaven, I say, in the second heaven, for a while. You will understand what I am saying if you understand Ephesians 1:v.3, Philippians 3:20-21, among many many others Scriptures from heaven.

However, the FIRST heaven and the 2nd are reserved unto FIRE against this Day of Judgment-the Judgment Seat of Christ- and perdition of ungodly men. The Old and the New Testaments both will be DISSOLVED from now on that Satan should deceive the nations no more till the end of this current millennium, the seventh and last millennium-Revelation 20:v.3.

Well, feel free to ask questions, how many is better.

P.S.

Matthew 11:v. 27 - JESUS said:
All things are delivered unto me of my Father.
No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.

Many people only and only know the letter of the Word, but know not GOD because our Lord JESUS revealed not Him for them.