Is Drinking a sin?

[Grailhunter]

Is strong the issue?
Hands down the Bible does not indicate that drinking in general is a sin and the more you know the more you realize that, that is true.
But is that the end of the conversation? Addiction...what causes it? Opioids and other painkillers and various psychiatric medications.
All kinds of addictions that can be discussed.

 

[robert derrick]

It isn't a sin until you make it your idol in life....your go to source when things get tough....separating yourself from God....
Again the question is WHY are you drinking.

And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? (Mark 2)

 

[Grailhunter]

And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? (Mark 2)

Robert I do not think she is asking you why you drink, but rather the reason people drink maybe problematic.

 

[robert derrick]

You don't have to stop drinking! Just do it privately.

And when I eat meat privately, you still will not be satisfied.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. (Gal 1)

So, I remain free in Christ. Get over it.

 

[robert derrick]

Robert I do not think she is asking you why you drink, but rather the reason people drink maybe problematic.

"Again the question is WHY are you drinking."

What, are you saying 'she' is asking a lying question?

Gee, who woulda thunk it.

In any case, she makes an accusative question in same manner as the fault-finding hypocrites made of Jesus' disciples. No surprise. Just instructive of the type.

 

[Brakelite]

Personally, this issue of Christians drinking for me is not an issue I normally engage in. It's a decision of conscience for everyone. But when someone pops up and asks, is drinking a sin, what they're really asking is, is it okay for me to carry on drinking so long as I don't annoy anyone. I tend to think that the person is actually looking for affirmation for something he may be struggling with, or questioning, but didn't want to give up. Why did I respond? So as not to give such a idiom as free ride

Since you are the strongest of the strong, I commend you. I only wish I were so strong as thee.

I wasn't claiming to be strong. I am weaker than most in many areas, which is why I need Christ so much. Without Him we can do nothing. My objection was in using 1 Corinthians 8 and claiming strength in justifying the use of alcohol.

 

[Grailhunter]

"Again the question is WHY are you drinking."

What, are you saying 'she' is asking a lying question?

Gee, who woulda thunk it.

In any case, she makes an accusative question in same manner as the fault-finding hypocrites made of Jesus' disciples. No surprise. Just instructive of the type.

Calm down on the girl.
People drink for different reasons.
The "why" can lead to trouble.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Robert I do not think she is asking you why you drink, but rather the reason people drink maybe problematic.

Thank you, yes that is what i am saying.

 

[Heart2Soul]

"Again the question is WHY are you drinking."

What, are you saying 'she' is asking a lying question?

Gee, who woulda thunk it.

In any case, she makes an accusative question in same manner as the fault-finding hypocrites made of Jesus' disciples. No surprise. Just instructive of the type.

You totally misunderstood my point...let me share my own experience....
When my husband died I began to drink....and at times I would drink an entire 30 pack of beer to make myself pass out. He died in his sleep and when I woke up i was traumatized by the sight of his body. I couldn't sleep and I grieved so deeply that i turned to alcohol....it made me numb and i would pass out from drinking.
So the reason I drank was to make the pain go away and to be able to sleep.
I didn't drink because I liked it.. I drank to achieve the effects from it.

 

[Brakelite]

You don't have to stop drinking! Just do it privately.

And when I eat meat privately, you still will not be satisfied.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. (Gal 1)

So, I remain free in Christ. Get over it.

Freedom in Christ. I can drink anything through Christ Who strengthens me. Is that how it works?

 

[Robert Gwin]

All I can tell you is read the chapter a number of times.

Much love!

Do you honestly believe that God would allow a Christian to practice sin because he did not think it to be a sin? I sure don't.

 

[marks]

...I drink because I have more faith than the Christian who doesn't drink... Is what I was referring to as being hilarious and sad.

I missed that comment, but I feel the same as you!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you honestly believe that God would allow a Christian to practice sin because he did not think it to be a sin? I sure don't.

What??

IF you think some thing is sin, and you do it, it is sin for you.

I don't know how you got to God allowing a Christian to practice sin!

Much love!

 

[marks]

You don't have to stop drinking! Just do it privately.

And when I eat meat privately, you still will not be satisfied.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. (Gal 1)

So, I remain free in Christ. Get over it.

There is a time and a place, I'm thinking of Paul, concerning Titus and Timothy being circumcised. Just after Paul adamantly refused to have Titus circumcised in order to please those who insisted he had to be, Paul made sure that Timothy was circumcised because they were going to be evangelizing among Jews who knew his father was Greek.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You totally misunderstood my point...let me share my own experience....
When my husband died I began to drink....and at times I would drink an entire 30 pack of beer to make myself pass out. He died in his sleep and when I woke up i was traumatized by the sight of his body. I couldn't sleep and I grieved so deeply that i turned to alcohol....it made me numb and i would pass out from drinking.
So the reason I drank was to make the pain go away and to be able to sleep.
I didn't drink because I liked it.. I drank to achieve the effects from it.

Self medicating.

Many people who drink and use drugs are doing this. Probably in most cases poorly. The difference between you (at that time) and someone seeing their doctor when in the same condition is that your med is liquid and theirs is a pill, in both cases tranquilizers.

When I drank, you could say I liked it, but that would have to be qualified by, compared to the rest of my life, yes, being drunk seemed better. you could say I was in the self medicating poorly class.

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

Thank you, yes that is what i am saying.

For the Pharisees, everything was problematic, if they didn't approve.


'Problematicism' is the same with all things we partake of in the world: food, sex, money, etc...

Drinking is to drunkenness, as having sex is to fornication, as eating is to gluttony, as spending money is to love of money...

The question is about sin according to Scripture, not about personal beliefs and cultural destruction, which is given, since the whole world lies in wickedness.

Christians who have the power of God over all the good things in life are the ones who can richly enjoy them without lust: eating without gluttony, drinking without drunkenness, having sex without fornication, adultery, homosexuality, spending money without indebtedness, etc...

Looking at the world or one's own failures to 'judge' matters is a sure way to judge wrong pertaining to the people of God.

And the weak in faith must employ personal 'zero-tolerance' policies and 'safety' measures for their own good. The strong in faith do not.

Adam and Eve were weak in faith and so added to God's commandment 'thou shalt not touch', and were ensnared in their own safety measure, when they began to confuse it with God's Word.

The same today for them that begin to intermix God's commandment with their own personal rules, such as "thou shalt not be drunken, neither shalt that drink".

It is very instructive, that Paul was condemning such rule-making in the body of Christ, when the things he spoke against adding to God's Word, were the very things they could have done with the forbidden fruit without the transgression of eating it:

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not). (Col 2)

The weak in faith are the weak in faith. They are not to be despised, but neither are they to be challenging the strong to be weak like themselves. Let the weak be weak so long as they like in their faith, and let the strong be strong so long as they like in their faith, and let neighther fall back to the lust of the world into sin.

 

[Grailhunter]

For the Pharisees, everything was problematic, if they didn't approve.


'Problematicism' is the same with all things we partake of in the world: food, sex, money, etc...

Drinking is to drunkenness, as having sex is to fornication, as eating is to gluttony, as spending money is to love of money...

The question is about sin according to Scripture, not about personal beliefs and cultural destruction, which is given, since the whole world lies in wickedness.

Christians who have the power of God over all the good things in life are the ones who can richly enjoy them without lust: eating without gluttony, drinking without drunkenness, having sex without fornication, adultery, homosexuality, spending money without indebtedness, etc...

Looking at the world or one's own failures to 'judge' matters is a sure way to judge wrong pertaining to the people of God.

And the weak in faith must employ personal 'zero-tolerance' policies and 'safety' measures for their own good. The strong in faith do not.

Adam and Eve were weak in faith and so added to God's commandment 'thou shalt not touch', and were ensnared in their own safety measure, when they began to confuse it with God's Word.

The same today for them that begin to intermix God's commandment with their own personal rules, such as "thou shalt not be drunken, neither shalt that drink".

It is very instructive, that Paul was condemning such rule-making in the body of Christ, when the things he spoke against adding to God's Word, were the very things they could have done with the forbidden fruit without the transgression of eating it:

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not). (Col 2)

The weak in faith are the weak in faith. They are not to be despised, but neither are they to be challenging the strong to be weak like themselves. Let the weak be weak so long as they like in their faith, and let the strong be strong so long as they like in their faith, and let neighther fall back to the lust of the world into sin.

Why are you addressing this to Heart2soul?

 

[robert derrick]

Well, after reading this a couple of times it looks like you're in line with Paul's counsel about disputable matters. And surely you agree the consumption of alcohol, in and of itself, apart from drunkenness, is not one of those matters, because it is not prohibited in scripture. It's misuse is. The exercise of that liberty is what is open for discussion. I'm with Paul and say it is best for us to keep our liberty regarding alcohol a secret. Later, when I have time I will share my experience with this matter of Christian liberty regarding alcohol and the bold assertion of that liberty.

True, and once again the thread here is not about obvious constraints in exercising our liberty, but what is sin vs liberty.

And my only difference with you in it is your use of the term 'in secret'.

The children of the day no longer do things 'in secret.' We are not 'hiding out'.

Also, I do not see our regard for the weak in terms of 'potential' harm. Scripture shows that we are not to despise the weak, which means to purposely engage them with our strength, like kicking sand in their faces of weak faith.

I exercise my liberty at home and in public freely without shame. If someone weak in faith is out in public, looking to be 'harmed' by any others in their liberty, then I say it is they that ought remain at home in their own isolation, until they grow up.

Paul's admonition not to despise the weak in faith is not a touchy-feely, nor worrying-about-it-all-the-time thing. It is simply a matter of maturity in faith not to rub our liberty in the noses of the weak in faith. Simple. Easy. No problem.

And I say again, I have absolutely no experience whatsoever of any stronger in faith going after the weak, but rather abundant experience, as this thread proves, of the weaker sort going after the stronger, as though the stronger were sinning by not becoming weak as they.

I was once very weak in faith pertaining to alcohol, because I was delivered by Jesus from the downhill road of drunkenness. But when I learned by Scripture that neither alcohol, nor food, nor sex, nor money is the problem, but rather the lust of the world entering into their use, that is when I considered my own faith to do this or not to do that, without judging others unscripturally.

Perhaps my reaping of having to deal with such as I was so fervently in the past, is payment for all that bad sowing I did to the guiltless.

 

[amadeus]

Do you honestly believe that God would allow a Christian to practice sin because he did not think it to be a sin? I sure don't.

But in these words have you hidden your definition of sin? Are you presuming that every action or word or deed which would be sin for you would always also be sin for everyone else? Does the knowledge of the individual play no part? Does God's purpose for the "to you offensive occurrence" make no difference? What if God told someone to do something that you would always consider sin for yourself? Have you ever compared what God told Hosea to do with what the Apostle Paul wrote here?

"The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD." Hosea 1:2

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" II Cor 6:14

Did God change? Was God a respecter of persons?

 

[robert derrick]

Why are you addressing this to Hear2soul?

Because she was the one challenging me about it. Not you. You were only clarifying. Which I already knew, but was not going to just step into it right away.

My point being that such challenges to liberty in themselves, masked as simple questions are not honest.

I knew what she really ought to have asked was: "Do you drink, because you have problems, or just because you like it?"

And my answer is I love it. Even as I love making love with my wife, and love eating good food, and love hitting golf balls...

It's called richly enjoying all things through the faith and power of God one earth, even in our sinful mortal flesh, because this flesh does not have dominion over God's people:

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. (I John 5)

In elite units of the military, I have known them that never got drunk nor fornicated (which certainly was not my practise), because it was not profitable to them as the best of the best soldiers in their careers. It had nothing to do with God, nor faith in Christ.

All Christians ought be as such: those who live best, who live life well in all things, the elite soldiers of Christ, who do not entangle themselves in the lust of the world unto drunkenness, fornication, gluttony, love of money, etc...for the sake of a better crown and eternal life.

Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1 Thess 4)(1 John 2)