Israel, the Church, and the Rapture

[Truth7t7]

No . . . I assert that James addressed his letter to the 12 scattered tribes. Isn't that true?

Much love!

You assert that James was writing to "Those Of The 12 Tribes"

Yes you assert that "Those" are ethnic Jews, and not the entire Church of both Jew/Gentile, and post #58 shows your suggestion is in error

The Church represents James 12 tribes scattered abroad, of both Jew and Gentile

Quote, marks post #57:

"You are using his address to define the church as Israel, by pointing to his addressing the 12 tribes. I'm suggesting that he may have actually been writing to those of the 12 tribes who were scattered abroad. Have you considered that?"

 

[Truman]

We shall see...

 

[marks]

You assert that James was writing to "Those Of The 12 Tribes"

Yes you assert that "Those" are ethnic Jews, and not the entire Church of both Jew/Gentile, and post #58 shows your suggestion is in error

What I said was . . . what I continue to repeat is . . . James addressed his letter to the 12 tribes scattered abroad.

I can support this directly from the Bible:

James 1:1 KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

This does not serve to identify the gentile Christians as "spiritual Israel", just because James addressed his letter to the 12 tribes scattered abroad.

Only if you assume the while James said 12 tribes scattered abroad that this was his code for "all Christians everywhere". I'm not saying his letter is not read with profit by all believers in Christ. I'm pointing out that James addressed it to the 12 tribes, and any assumptions that he meant something different is only assuming the Bible doesn't mean what it says.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

What I said was . . . what I continue to repeat is . . . James addressed his letter to the 12 tribes scattered abroad.

I can support this directly from the Bible:

James 1:1 KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

This does not serve to identify the gentile Christians as "spiritual Israel", just because James addressed his letter to the 12 tribes scattered abroad.

Only if you assume the while James said 12 tribes scattered abroad that this was his code for "all Christians everywhere". I'm not saying his letter is not read with profit by all believers in Christ. I'm pointing out that James addressed it to the 12 tribes, and any assumptions that he meant something different is only assuming the Bible doesn't mean what it says.

Much love!

You stated James wrote to ethnic Jews "Those" of the 12 tribes scattered abroad, as you act as if your statement "Those" in post #57 is non-existent now

James wrote to the Church, of both Jew/Gentile, who is the Israel of God, the twelve tribes scattered abroad

Problem is, it appears you wont accept the clear scripture, the book of James was written to the church, the twelve tribes scattered abroad, of course many have a Pre-Determined prejudices to deny this fact

Below James is speaking to his brethren in the church, those that have the faith of Jesus Christ, with regards to respect of persons

Yes your very claim that his book pertains to ethnic Jews, is the very focal point of his teaching below

James wrote to the "Church" and not ethnic Jews as you claim

James 2:1KJV
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

James 5:14-15KJV
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

[marks]

You stated James wrote to ethnic Jews "Those" of the 12 tribes scattered abroad, as you act as if your statement "Those" in post #57 is non-existent now

What I continue to say here is to point out to you that James addressed his letter to the 12 tribes scattered aboad. This does not support your assertion that that those 12 tribes somehow include the gentile believers.

"Which spiritual tribe are you?" is one of those foolish and unlearned questions.

All believers in Christ, whether Jew or gentile will benefit from reading, learning the letter from God through James. Even so, it was addressed to the 12 tribes scattered aboad.

Just like Peter wrote his second letter addressed to those who have the same faith, and Paul wrote Titus addressed to Titus. I don't see you trying to show that Titus is the entire church. But I expect you find his letter meaningful to you just the same. Would I be correct in this?

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

What I continue to say here is to point out to you that James addressed his letter to the 12 tribes scattered aboad. This does not support your assertion that that those 12 tribes somehow include the gentile believers.

"Which spiritual tribe are you?" is one of those foolish and unlearned questions.

All believers in Christ, whether Jew or gentile will benefit from reading, learning the letter from God through James. Even so, it was addressed to the 12 tribes scattered aboad.

Just like Peter wrote his second letter addressed to those who have the same faith, and Paul wrote Titus addressed to Titus. I don't see you trying to show that Titus is the entire church. But I expect you find his letter meaningful to you just the same. Would I be correct in this?

Much love!

James addressed the "Church" below, and it was written to the 12 tribes scattered abroad as seen in James 1:1

Is any sick among you (The Church) both Jew/Gentile

Elders Of (The Church) both Jew/Gentile

James 5:14-15KJV
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

[marks]

James addressed the "Church" below, and it was written to the 12 tribes scattered abroad as seen in James 1:1

Is any sick among you (The Church) both Jew/Gentile

Elders Of (The Church) both Jew/Gentile

Can you quote the passage where James shows the gentiles to be spiritual Jews?

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Can you quote the passage where James shows the gentiles to be spiritual Jews?

Much love!

I Will Quote The Inspiration Of God

Romans 2:28-29KJV
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[marks]

I Will Quote The Inspiration Of God

Romans 2:28-29KJV
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Neither of these passages tell us a gentile Christian is a "spiritual Jew".

Much love!

 

[marks]

I Will Quote The Inspiration Of God

Romans 2:28-29KJV
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Nothing from James? No offense intended . . . it sounds as though you hold to the idea, because it sounds right, but without the actual Scriptures teaching this.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Neither of these passages tell us a gentile Christian is a "spiritual Jew".

Much love!

1 Samuel 15:23KJV
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Romans 2:28-29KJV
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[marks]

1 Samuel 15:23KJV
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Romans 2:28-29KJV
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

For your first quote, I suggest that you refrain from rebellion.

For the second quote, the true Jew is one inwardly. But this does not make a gentile into a Jew.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

~ marks ~

Agree.

1 James 1:
[1] James, (a Jew) a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Jews First taught...By Jesus...then Jews.
Jewish Apostles commission...travel;
Preach Christ to all Tribes...
By Jesus' chosen Jews...and thereafter Jewish Elder men who Accepted the teaching, and inturn preached Christ Jesus.

Paul First taught...by Jewish Pharisees.
Paul Secondy taught...in the Spirit.
Saul the Jew/Paul the Greek... commission...
Preach Primarily to the Greeks/Gentiles, but also the Jews in the crowds.

(Kind of funny, how some Gentiles, posthumously exalted Peter, when it was Paul's commission to introduce (God & Christ), to the Gentiles.)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Truth7t7]

~ marks ~

Agree.

1 James 1:
[1] James, (a Jew) a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Jews First taught...By Jesus...then Jews.
Jewish Apostles commission...travel;
Preach Christ to all Tribes...
By Jesus' chosen Jews...and thereafter Jewish Elder men who Accepted the teaching, and inturn preached Christ Jesus.

Paul First taught...by Jewish Pharisees.
Paul Secondy taught...in the Spirit.
Saul the Jew/Paul the Greek... commission...
Preach Primarily to the Greeks/Gentiles, but also the Jews in the crowds.

(Kind of funny, how some Gentiles, posthumously exalted Peter, when it was Paul's commission to introduce (God & Christ), to the Gentiles.)

Glory to God,
Taken

James addressed the "Church" below, and it was written to the 12 tribes scattered abroad as seen in James 1:1

Is any sick among you (The Church) both Jew/Gentile

Elders Of (The Church) both Jew/Gentile

James 5:14-15KJV
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

[marks]

~ marks ~

Agree.

1 James 1:
[1] James, (a Jew) a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Jews First taught...By Jesus...then Jews.
Jewish Apostles commission...travel;
Preach Christ to all Tribes...
By Jesus' chosen Jews...and thereafter Jewish Elder men who Accepted the teaching, and inturn preached Christ Jesus.

Paul First taught...by Jewish Pharisees.
Paul Secondy taught...in the Spirit.
Saul the Jew/Paul the Greek... commission...
Preach Primarily to the Greeks/Gentiles, but also the Jews in the crowds.

(Kind of funny, how some Gentiles, posthumously exalted Peter, when it was Paul's commission to introduce (God & Christ), to the Gentiles.)

Glory to God,
Taken

Yes, just so! People seem to neglect the fact that Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, and did not number himself as among the 12. Peter and Paul were in agreement over this as well.

Much love!

 

[marks]

James addressed the "Church" below, and it was written to the 12 tribes scattered abroad as seen in James 1:1

Is any sick among you (The Church) both Jew/Gentile

Elders Of (The Church) both Jew/Gentile

James 5:14-15KJV
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Perhaps a simile . . .

To the Mendy family, greetings! When you are hungry, go to the Jersey Diner, and ask the waiter for a menu, and the servers will serve you food.

Is the waiter a Mendy? Is the server? I don't know. That's not told to us. But I've written to the Mendy family. Does this mean that only the Mendy's can go to the Jersey Diner?

To the Jew who is scattered somewhere else, go to the elders of the church . . .

Much love!

 

[Heart2Soul]

I happen to have the idea that there will be a pre-trib rapture. I also think that Israel is a distinct nation chosen by God, and that God will continue to fulfill His promises to Jacob's children.

I know a number of people who are not pre-trib in their understanding of when the rapture will occur, and who also see in some fashion that the Church is now Israel.

Is there anyone who sees Israel and the Church separately as I do, and who is not pre-trib?

Much love!

Numerous scriptures on the OT refer to Israel as God's wife.
Jeremiah 3:14

 

[Taken]

James addressed the "Church" below, and it was written to the 12 tribes scattered abroad as seen in James 1:1

Is any sick among you (The Church) both Jew/Gentile

Elders Of (The Church) both Jew/Gentile

James 5:14-15KJV
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

You do realize...
James 5:14 is about both physically SICK and spiritually SICK...and
James 5:15 is about spiritually SICK, aka, poor in spirit, aka not Converted IN Christ?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Truth7t7]

You do realize...
James 5:14 is about both physically SICK and spiritually SICK...and
James 5:15 is about spiritually SICK, aka, poor in spirit, aka not Converted IN Christ?

Glory to God,
Taken

You do understand James wrote to the Church both Jew/Gentil, the twelve tribes scattered abroad as seen in James 1:1

 

[Heart2Soul]

I happen to have the idea that there will be a pre-trib rapture. I also think that Israel is a distinct nation chosen by God, and that God will continue to fulfill His promises to Jacob's children.

I know a number of people who are not pre-trib in their understanding of when the rapture will occur, and who also see in some fashion that the Church is now Israel.

Is there anyone who sees Israel and the Church separately as I do, and who is not pre-trib?

Much love!

I was taught to believe in the pre-trib by my pastor all my growing up days...
But when I began to study scripture in depth for myself there were too many discrepancies to support that...and after praying about it for months I finally got peace in my spirit knowing that the Holy Spirit led me to His Truth.