Israel, the Church, and the Rapture

[marks]

I happen to have the idea that there will be a pre-trib rapture. I also think that Israel is a distinct nation chosen by God, and that God will continue to fulfill His promises to Jacob's children.

I know a number of people who are not pre-trib in their understanding of when the rapture will occur, and who also see in some fashion that the Church is now Israel.

Is there anyone who sees Israel and the Church separately as I do, and who is not pre-trib?

Much love!

 

[GISMYS_7]

Israel and the church are NOT the same but both are God's people. Born again believers (the church) will be raptured (caught up) very soon but Israel and those left behind will go into the years of the great tribulation!

 

[Taken]

I happen to have the idea that there will be a pre-trib rapture. I also think that Israel is a distinct nation chosen by God, and that God will continue to fulfill His promises to Jacob's children.

I know a number of people who are not pre-trib in their understanding of when the rapture will occur, and who also see in some fashion that the Church is now Israel.

Is there anyone who sees Israel and the Church separately as I do, and who is not pre-trib?

Much love!

YES.

It hangs on Knowledge of WHAT one believes...
Many of ISRAEL, (tribesmen descendants) believe IN God...but Not Jesus is their Christ Messiah.

A Converted man...has VOWED his heartful belief, In God, In Christ Jesus...
Been forgiven for having HAD disbelief...
Laid down their life, received soul salvation, had their spirit quickened...
Simply Waiting FOR resurrection....
And Yes...agree. They NOT being subject to Wrath, THEY SHALL be RAISE above the face of the Earth, to the Clouds ( same as Saved Noah was raise above the face of the Earth in an ark above the mountain tops / where uh...clouds are! )

Israel believing in God, but not Jesus is the Christ....get the first dose of wrath...SEALS... Whose wrath? The Lambs.
Why? Disbelief.
Israel also is ministered to:
First in Jerusalem, two witnesses.
Then told to flee Jerusalem...to Mt. zion.
Why? Satan taking over, looking to devour.
On Mt. Zion...12,000 of every tribe and A Lamb, there ministering, Jews to Jews speaking the Word of God IN Christ Jesus.
Many in Jerusalem and Mt Zion are Killed...
BUT SAVED.
Their saved souls rise to heaven...their body's raised at the last Trump....after the 1,000 year reign.

There is one Peep...from one Angel, for all the rest of the World to Hear the Word of God, between "trumps and bowls"... to call on the Lord, become "last change" Saved, and their body killed, their soul and spirit risen up to heaven....and they also wait till after the 1,000 years reign to be bodily risen.
...there is no saving during the Wrath of God, "bowls, vials"... it's a pretty rough and hard time....death, death, death.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Truman]

As I see it now, and I make mistakes, there is the body of Christ, who are the gentile believers, and there are the 12 tribes of Israel.
There are the Hebrews who believe in Yeshua.
Beyond this, I recognize that I do not understand the full extent of His sovereign plan.

 

[Enoch111]

Is there anyone who sees Israel and the Church separately as I do, and who is not pre-trib?

Not likely.

 

[Enoch111]

As I see it now, and I make mistakes, there is the body of Christ, who are the gentile believers, and there are the 12 tribes of Israel.

The Body of Christ is NOT exclusively Gentile. Quite the opposite. The Body of Christ consists of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles since 30 AD. God is making no distinctions between Jews and Gentiles during the Church Age. However, after the Church has been completed and rapture, God will resume His dealings with the 12 tribes.

 

[Truman]

I am a student.

 

[marks]

As I see it now, and I make mistakes, there is the body of Christ, who are the gentile believers, and there are the 12 tribes of Israel.
There are the Hebrews who believe in Yeshua.
Beyond this, I recognize that I do not understand the full extent of His sovereign plan.

And are you a pre-tribber or no?

Much love!

 

[Truman]

And are you a pre-tribber or no?

Much love!

I don't know...I sometimes think I'll be here to help during Jacob's trouble.

 

[marks]

I don't know...I sometimes think I'll be here to help during Jacob's trouble.

That's very interesting to me!



My idea is that someone who holds a strong distinction between the church and Israel will be pre-trib, while someone who considers them one and the same will see a later rapture, either pre-wrath or post-trib. So you hold still a partial distinction between the church and Israel, that they are somewhat the same, and somewhat different, and are somewhat pre-trib but somewhat not.

Does that make sense?

Am I on the right track?

Much love!

 

[David H.]

I happen to have the idea that there will be a pre-trib rapture. I also think that Israel is a distinct nation chosen by God, and that God will continue to fulfill His promises to Jacob's children.

I know a number of people who are not pre-trib in their understanding of when the rapture will occur, and who also see in some fashion that the Church is now Israel.

Is there anyone who sees Israel and the Church separately as I do, and who is not pre-trib?

Much love!

I Do, I am pre Wrath. The church age culminates in the Great tribulation, the Labor and delivery so to speak, and then Jacob's trouble comes after that. If You hold to the final week concept The first half is the GT and the pre wrath rapture. The second half is the Day of the LORD, the time of Jacob's trouble.

Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. (Amos 5:18)

 

[marks]

I Do, I am pre Wrath. The church age culminates in the Great tribulation, the Labor and delivery so to speak, and then Jacob's trouble comes after that. If You hold to the final week concept The first half is the GT and the pre wrath rapture. The second half is the Day of the LORD, the time of Jacob's trouble.

Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. (Amos 5:18)

Just to confirm, you see Israel as a separate entity that will be nationally saved when Jesus returns?

Much love!

 

[Truman]

That's very interesting to me!



My idea is that someone who holds a strong distinction between the church and Israel will be pre-trib, while someone who considers them one and the same will see a later rapture, either pre-wrath or post-trib. So you hold still a partial distinction between the church and Israel, that they are somewhat the same, and somewhat different, and are somewhat pre-trib but somewhat not.

Does that make sense?

Am I on the right track?

Much love!

I believe that I'm a Levite that God will use to wake up the house of Israel to who they are in the coming days and years.
It's all His plan. I just try to do what He wants me to do. It's been hidden for a long time and it's a really contentious topic.
I just try to get through today.

 

[David H.]

Just to confirm, you see Israel as a separate entity that will be nationally saved when Jesus returns?

Yes, they will as a nation enter the wrath of God and When they see Jesus as their messiah they will repent: Read Zechariah 12:10-12

 

[marks]

Yes, they will as a nation enter the wrath of God and When they see Jesus as their messiah they will repent: Read Zechariah 12:10-12

Ok, thank you!

Maybe the line of demarcation is in post trib? Rapture at the second coming of Christ, Matthew 24:31? But then, that's where you put pre-wrath, is that correct?

Much love!

 

[David H.]

I believe that I'm a Levite that God will use to wake up the house of Israel to who they are in the coming days and years.
It's all His plan. I just try to do what He wants me to do. It's been hidden for a long time and it's a really contentious topic.
I just try to get through today.

yes it is a very contentious topic. My People (Nationality) Are said to be the sons of Issachar. But I have chosen as with Paul to count all that as dung compared to being in Christ Jesus (Read Philippians 3:4-11)

God Bless.

 

[marks]

Just to say . . . I'm just collecting people's ideas here . . . not planning to debate anything.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Maybe the line of demarcation is in post trib? Rapture at the second coming of Christ, Matthew 24:31? But then, that's where you put pre-wrath, is that correct?

My View is more mid trib.... this is a misnomer as it is more like middle of the final week.

Simply put, the tribulation is the church age which is also the birth pangs. The great tribulation is the Labor and delivery the rapture is the birth and sorrow turning to Joy. It is the fall feasts all culminated into one. Elul starts the 40 days of teshuvah, (repentance), Trumpets is the start of the Labor, which is the ten days of Awe, followed by Yom Kippur which is the Birth, and then the feast of weeks is known as the feast of sorrow turning to Joy.

 

[David H.]

Just to say . . . I'm just collecting people's ideas here . . . not planning to debate anything.

Not debating just answering questions. Truman is a Brother In Christ from what I can tell. I Had many who believe as he does in my family and country.

 

[marks]

Not debating just answering questions. Truman is a Brother In Christ from what I can tell. I Had many who believe as he does in my family and country.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound as if I was saying you were. I just want to reasure people about myself.

Much love!