Was Jesus a spirit being before coming to earth as a human?

[robert derrick]

Jesus was not 'a spirit', before coming to earth as 'a human'.

He was the Word and God of Israel come down from heaven to be made of a woman, in a body prepared for Him by the Spirit from the flesh of the woman, who was the seed of David according to the flesh.

I.e, the man Christ Jesus is the risen God of Israel, who was dead and is alive evermore.

The God of Israel was fully man made flesh, not 'fully human'. Fully human became fully sinner after the transgression of Adam. Jesus was the second Adam begotten only of God, yet unlike the first, He was without sin, though He was tempted in all points as the first.

The risen man Christ Jesus is the only man who never sinned while in the days of His flesh.

Only God is without sin. Any man saying he is without sin is a liar, as well as any man saying Jesus Christ was not God without sin.

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

To address a couple of issues in the posts above...

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (KJV)

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (KJV)
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (ESV)
John 8:58 Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, before there was an Abraham, I AM!" (ISV)
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." (NASB)
John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am (NIV)
John 8:58 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!” (NLT)
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, 'Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.' (NRSV-Catholic Edition)
John 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM. (Douhy-Rheims)
(all above verses from KJV)

In various translations, Jesus used the term "I AM" to show that He is God in the flesh, the very same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I find it hard to believe that both the OT Hebrew words translated to English as "I AM" and the translations from Aramaic and/or Greek in the NT as "I AM" are somehow incorrect.

The Jewish people then as now are very familiar with I AM of the Old Testament. Jesus very intentionally used the term "I AM" specifically to show He WAS God. But the leaders of Israel believed that this carpenters son calling himself God (I AM) was heresy and a complete fraud. In their minds, there was no way He could possibly be the promised Messiah of the OT.

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus very intentionally used the term "I AM" specifically to show He WAS God.

But that is not good enough for a few naysayers on this forum. They resemble the enemies of Christ, who refused to believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was walking in their midst as Jesus of Nazareth. But the one who does not have the doctrine of Christ is in fact antichrist.

2 JOHN 1: THE DECEIVERS WHO ARE ANTICHRISTS
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

What does it mean to "confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"? Is it not to deny that God the Word became flesh (man) and dwelt among us as Jesus of Nazareth? (John chapter 1)

 

[n2thelight]

Yes, as were we all

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Do you have scriptural evidence to support your viewpoint?

I can think of no “fruit” that is better than gold, even pure gold…except for the fruit of the Spirit… love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance…

My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, and my yield [better] than choicest silver.
I walk in the way of righteousness, in the midst (Matthew 18:20-22)of the paths of justice.
To endow those who love me with wealth, that I may fill their treasuries.
the LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, before His works of old.
from everlasting I was established,
From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
When there were no depths,
I was brought forth,
When there were no springs
Abounding with water.
Before the hills, I was brought forth.
While He had not yet made the earth, And the fields, Nor the first dust of the world.
When He established the heavens, I was there.

when He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep. When He made firm the skies above, when the springs of the deep became fixed, when He set for the sea its boundary so that the water would not transgress His command,
when He marked out the foundations of the earth

Then I was beside Him [as] a master workman; I was daily [His] delight
Rejoicing
Always
Before Him
Rejoicing in the world
His earth
And [having] My delight in the sons of men.
Now therefore, [O] sons, listen to Me, For blessed are they who keep My ways.

For he who finds me finds Life. And obtains favour from the LORD.

 

[farouk]

I can think of no “fruit” that is better than gold, even pure gold…except for the fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-25

Proverbs:
My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, and my yield [better] than choicest silver.
I walk in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of justice.
To endow those who love me with wealth, that I may fill their treasuries.
the LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, before His works of old.
from everlasting I was established,
From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
When there were no depths,
I was brought forth,
When there were no springs
Abounding with water.
Before the hills, I was brought forth.
While He had not yet made the earth
And the fields,
Nor the first dust of the world.
When He established the heavens, I was there.

when He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep. When He made firm the skies above, when the springs of the deep became fixed, when He set for the sea its boundary so that the water would not transgress His command,
when He marked out the foundations of the earth

Then I was beside Him [as] a master workman; I was daily [His] delight
Rejoicing
Always
Before Him
Rejoicing in the world
His earth
And [having] My delight in the sons of men.
Now therefore, [O] sons, listen to Me, For blessed are they who keep My ways.

For he who finds me finds Life. And obtains favour fro the LORD.

@VictoryinJesus Wonderful passages there...

 

[farouk]

IMHO it's futile to keep up a dialogue with those who might try to deny God in Three Persons, when in fact there is overwhelming evidence for this wondrous truth in Scripture.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus Wonderful passages there...

It is wonderful! “My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold” Makes me think of: Philippians 1:11: having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

 

[robert derrick]

To address a couple of issues in the posts above...

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (KJV)

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (KJV)
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (ESV)
John 8:58 Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, before there was an Abraham, I AM!" (ISV)
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." (NASB)
John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am (NIV)
John 8:58 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!” (NLT)
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, 'Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.' (NRSV-Catholic Edition)
John 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM. (Douhy-Rheims)
(all above verses from KJV)

In various translations, Jesus used the term "I AM" to show that He is God in the flesh, the very same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I find it hard to believe that both the OT Hebrew words translated to English as "I AM" and the translations from Aramaic and/or Greek in the NT as "I AM" are somehow incorrect.

The Jewish people then as now are very familiar with I AM of the Old Testament. Jesus very intentionally used the term "I AM" specifically to show He WAS God. But the leaders of Israel believed that this carpenters son calling himself God (I AM) was heresy and a complete fraud. In their minds, there was no way He could possibly be the promised Messiah of the OT.

But the leaders of Israel believed that this carpenters son calling himself God (I AM) was heresy and a complete fraud.

True. They accused Him of making Himself equal with God. (John 5:18)

It is interesting that the unbelieving 'monotheistic Jews' of old knew that being the Son of God was to be equal with God, even as the Nicene creed would later confirm.

And yet, today there are some claiming those monotheistic Jews as proof that Christ was not equal to God.

Unbelief makes no sense, and believers supporting unbelief makes even less.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Sorry…I must disagree.

under the old law of sin and death , they had to hear through Moses and those set above them that were close to God , heard from Him , and so led the flock.

Under the law of the the spirit of life in Christ Jesus ( Rom 8) a door was open for direct communication and fellowship with the Father . Jesus restored the link and closed the gap between God and man.

Sorry brother , but whoever you have been listening to has sold you a bag of lemons.

“ In Him we live and move and have our being, “ in Him we live!

Jesus said - “ My Sheep hear My Voice ….” Not , my sheep must hear through someone else!

We do in fact have direct communication with Jehovah via a mediator maam, that being Jesus of course. But during these last days as I posted, we are fed spiritually through the congregation, as the scriptures I posted confirm.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus was not 'a spirit', before coming to earth as 'a human'.

confused. Are you asserting the above Jesus was not ‘a spirit’ before ‘a body you prepared for me’? Or were you only replying to the question asked by the OP? Because then “He was the Word and God of Israel” below …are you saying the Word was not ‘Spirit’ that came forth of the Father, …and returns to the Father? In John 16:27-28 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. [28] I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

He was the Word and God of Israel

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus was/is the God of Israel. His Father was/is the Most High...Elyon. Other names for the Father are "Yah, (singular) and El Shaddai (the Almighty). Jesus ruled from heaven over Israel...His portion. All the other nations were ruled over by angels (called sons of God by association with Jesus) who were given authority as principalities and powers. When these angels rebelled it was only through the Lord's portion (Israel) that God was worshipped. When Jesus came to earth, He left His place of rulership over Israel in order to save the whole world. It is not for nothing that the sign over His head was "the king of the Jews." The kingship of Jesus has now been expanded to include all nations.

The bible is cryptic but clear on this. The Lord of Hosts is the Father. The Lord is Jesus. Both Father and Son share the same basic name (Yahweh). The "word" that became flesh is יהוה

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But during these last days as I posted, we are fed spiritually through the congregation, as the scriptures I posted confirm.

“We are fed spiritually through the congregation, as the scriptures I posted confirm” yet to be fed spiritually of one another, is this “fed” by ‘Christ in you’ praise and glory unto the Father in unity and fellowship with one another; which brings forth fruit of the Spirit of God with “Patience, love, Joy, long-suffering, temperance, faith…”? Why reduce who is doing the “teaching”? In “let us wait on our ministering” Let us wait on The Lord? Romans 12:6-8 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; [7] Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; [8] Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time you ought to be teachers, you have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love you need not that I write unto you: for you yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

Consider “you need not that I write unto you: for you yourselves are taught of God” …taught what? To love one another.
You need not that I write unto you…
You need not that any man teach you
But the topic (Imo) is taught of God that you ought to love one another. As the anointing “remains in you and you remain in Him”
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received of him abideth in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it (the anointing which you have received of him abides in you) has taught you, you shall abide in him.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Before coming to earth Jesus was God the Word. Just as the Father and the Holy Spirit are divine spirit beings, the Word was also a spirit being within the Godhead. At the same time, since no man has seen God the Father at any time, it was God the Word (now the Lord Jesus Christ) who appeared to men. He appeared either as "the Word of God" or as "the Angel of the LORD" (YHWH). That the Angel of the LORD was none other than Jesus is seen in Exodus 3, where He also called Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as well as "I AM". But since you do not believe that Jesus is God, you will either ignore every verse which says so, or you will try to twist the Scriptures.

In the New World Translation (NWT) of the Jehovah's Witnesses, they have literally created a false god by calling Jesus "a god" instead of God. So here is what we find in the King James Bible (John 1:1) and also what we find in the NWT.

KING JAMES BIBLE
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NEW WORLD TRANSLATION
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

The Bible tells us very clearly that there is only one God and He is the one true God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). The NWT "a god" tells us that Jesus was one of the false gods (like the pagans have)! In view of this, absolutely nothing coming from the Watchtower Society has any credibility.

So now that we see the difference between the two versions of the Bible sir, that say very different things, knowing full well one of them is altered, so which one. Is Jesus God? Or is Jehovah? What does the Bible really teach?

Who did Jesus say was God sir? Mat 4:10; 22:37? When Jesus was accused of making himself God, how did he respond? Jn 10:36 Who did Jesus himself say he was? Mat 16:13-17
Would God have a God? Ex 20:3 Does Jesus? Jn 20:17; Eph 1:3

Since the KJV of the Bible rendered theos/theon a god at Acts 28:6 why did they render it God at Jn 1:1 without the definite article as correctly translated in the same verse just before? Likely you would agree that the Bible does not contradict itself, therefore one of those versions has been manipulated. Do you truly believe Jesus taught that he is God, or do you have such a great love for him, that you desire to elevate him above all things?

I love Jesus as well, so much so that I pattern my life after his, but true love is shown for him by observing his commandments Enoch. Jn 14:23

 

[Robert Gwin]

The same ground rules that applied to the people of God in order for them to discern between truth and error, are still valid as much today as they were before Jesus.
"To the law and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this word, there is no light in them".
If your life isn't in harmony with the law, and you reject the spirit of prophecy (which is the testimony of Jesus Revelation 19:10) why should we have regard to your teachings, or those of your church?

I certainly agree Backlit. If one claims to be a prophet of God and issues a false prophecy, then obviously he is not one of God's prophets. Of course Christians do not have to worry about that now, as the Bible is complete sir. God has not sent prophets for many centuries, so if one claims to be a prophet, best to instantaneously realize that they are not truly from Jehovah.

Today Jehovah feeds His people through the congregation Isa 2:2-4 and He does so through the faithful slave that Jesus assigned to shepherd these people of God Mat 24:45-47. So not all one has to do is see who represents the God of Jacob, who are educated well, have beaten their swords into plowshares, and walk in the faith. Zech 8:23. I have posted another thread in which we are discussing that very subject, on how to identify the faith beyond any doubt.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I can think of no “fruit” that is better than gold, even pure gold…except for the fruit of the Spirit… love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance…

My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, and my yield [better] than choicest silver.
I walk in the way of righteousness, in the midst (Matthew 18:20-22)of the paths of justice.
To endow those who love me with wealth, that I may fill their treasuries.
the LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, before His works of old.
from everlasting I was established,
From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
When there were no depths,
I was brought forth,
When there were no springs
Abounding with water.
Before the hills, I was brought forth.
While He had not yet made the earth, And the fields, Nor the first dust of the world.
When He established the heavens, I was there.

when He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep. When He made firm the skies above, when the springs of the deep became fixed, when He set for the sea its boundary so that the water would not transgress His command,
when He marked out the foundations of the earth

Then I was beside Him [as] a master workman; I was daily [His] delight
Rejoicing
Always
Before Him
Rejoicing in the world
His earth
And [having] My delight in the sons of men.
Now therefore, [O] sons, listen to Me, For blessed are they who keep My ways.

For he who finds me finds Life. And obtains favour from the LORD.

I appreciate your posting Proverbs 8 maam, may I ask you who do you think that was written about?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I appreciate your posting Proverbs 8 maam, may I ask you who do you think that was written about?

You asked: who do you think it is written about? ‘Written about’ with ‘written of me’ the same one who said “Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.” For this reason have I come? “Not my will Father but your Will be done”?
the same which said “I am the way, the truth, and the Life.” In that passage in proverbs “whoever finds Me finds Life” with the other passages “I go and you will seek me and will not find me” until you seek with your whole heart? Or towards the end of that proverbs “whosoever keeps my way finds favour with God” again “I am the way” they asked what is the way and how will we find it? Can you show us the way? Not only the volume of the book is written of Him, but could also say the proverb speaks of Wisdom which come forth of God, not the wisdom that descends from men and the world, but that comes forth out from God…which He declared in and unto the world and was received up of the Father. So to be clear…Imo the passage speaks of Christ but also the Wisdom which comes from God which are the same in the risen Christ glory and praise unto God?


Hebrews 10:6-10 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein ; which are offered by the law; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[Helen]

We do in fact have direct communication with Jehovah via a mediator maam, that being Jesus of course. But during these last days as I posted, we are fed spiritually through the congregation, as the scriptures I posted confirm.

How can it be “direct communication “ VIA A MEDIATOR “ …Sounds like an oxymoron to me LOL

I say that sadly you have swallowed the koolaid

 

[Philip James]

Couldnt vote..

What is before in eternity?

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Brakelite]

Jesus was not 'a spirit', before coming to earth as 'a human'.

So if not Spirit as are the angels and the Father, what was Jesus when He spoke to Moses on the mountain... In the burning bush... To Jacob... To Joshua...?