Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Moriah's Song]

We follow in Jesus' footsteps and likewise have to sacrifice our human lives.

True if need be.

However my post was more than what we sacrifice on a daily basis. The main focus of my last post was about the OT prophecies being fulfilled in the New Testament's New Covenant and that sacrifices in and of themselves are not covenants....

Quote: "I am unable to find a verse that uses the term "covenant of sacrifice" that was prophesied in the Old Testament and inaugurated by Jesus in the New Testament.​

As I understand it, the Old Testament Covenants of Abraham, Isaac [Noah] and Jacob found their fulfillment in the reality of the New Covenant of this present age, having been instituted at the Last Supper, and is an "everlasting covenant" of which there will be none hereafter. The Book is closed."​

 

[Ronald Nolette]

...And when "at some point in the future" do you mean?

When the provisions of the covenant are fulfilled.

So your position is that the Old Covenant is now void and no longer in effect?

Of course! Paul wrote saying it was void (because it was fuflilled) many times.

If the Old Covenant is void and no longer in effect and the New Covenant is waiting for the nation of Israel to accept it, what happens to the New Covenant if they never accept it? I don't think the nation of Israel even tolerates Christians in Israel to witness to a Jew let alone read our NT to even consider our doctrine of the New Covenant.

Well you are dealing here with untenable what if's! Israel will receive the New covenant- God said they will! Ez. 20 and Jer. 31 shows they will.

More important is the question that "if the old is void and the new is waiting in limbo for the nation of Israel" then what are we presently under if you deny those verses in Hebrews and other reference to the New Covenant in the NT?

god has made no covenant with Gentiles aka the church comprised of Jews and Gentiles. If we must name the time we are living in now I guess we can call it the interim period between the Old and New covenants God made with Israel alone. It is the time where God is calling out of the Gentiles a people for his name. When the full number of Gentiles come in- then God will institute the New covenant.

Israel's plans at the present are preparing for a new temple to be built in Jerusalem and to re-instate the old sacrificial system so it does not seem as though the nation of Israel ever intends to accept anything the Christian community offers.

Well you view things with the mind of man instead of seeing what the Word of God says will happen. If god says it will happen, it will happen- no matter what the present situation looks like! Numerous Christians mocked when other believers in the late 1800's said Israel would become a nation again! By sight it was impossible- but by faith some trusted god though it could not be seen. They also said Israel would have Jerusalem again! MOcked again.! Then 1948 and 1967 happened. And some believers instead of believing their eye and the Scriptures have come up with all sorts of insane hypotheses to reject Israel's nationhood and control of Jerusalem being part of Gods' plan! Scripture says that all Israel will get saved- they will! They will become believers- but not christians. the body of christ ends at the rapture and all believers after that are saved and sealed but not part of the body of christ, just like ot saints are not part of the body of Christ or Christians.

 

[theefaith]

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[Moriah's Song]

Well you are dealing here with untenable what if's! Israel will receive the New covenant- God said they will! Ez. 20 and Jer. 31 shows they will.

What New Testament verses verify that Israel will receive the New Covenant please?

 

[Moriah's Song]

When the provisions of the covenant are fulfilled.

And what do you consider the "provisions" to be may I ask?

 

[keithr]

What New Testament verses verify that Israel will receive the New Covenant please?

How about Romans 11:25-32 (WEB):

(25) For I don’t desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,
(26) and so all Israel will be saved. Even as it is written, “There will come out of Zion the Deliverer, and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
(27) This is my covenant with them, when I will take away their sins.”
(28) Concerning the Good News, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake.
(29) For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
(30) For as you in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience,
(31) even so these also have now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they may also obtain mercy.
(32) For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

 

[keithr]

Quote: "I am unable to find a verse that uses the term "covenant of sacrifice" that was prophesied in the Old Testament and inaugurated by Jesus in the New Testament.​

As Psalms 50:5 says, Christians have "made a covenant with me [God] by sacrifice", i.e. we have been baptised (immersed) into Jesus' death (Romans 6:3) and therefore covenanted to sacrifice our human lives so that we may also share in Jesus' resurrection (Romans 6:5) to the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), and to be joint heirs of God (Romans 8:17) with Jesus.

As I understand it, the Old Testament Covenants of Abraham, Isaac [Noah] and Jacob found their fulfillment in the reality of the New Covenant of this present age, having been instituted at the Last Supper, and is an "everlasting covenant" of which there will be none hereafter. The Book is closed."​

Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament laws, but God's laws still stand until the end of the Millenial Age:

Matthew 5:17-18 (WEB):
(17) “Don’t think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.
(18) For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.

All Israel and the rest of mankind (all except Christians) will be saved and given the opportunity of eternal life under the New Covenant, which doesn't come into force until after "the fullness of the Gentiles has come in" (Romans 11:25), i.e. after all Christians have been resurrected or raptured.

The Church, heirs of God's promise to Abraham, members of the body and bride of Christ, are under-priests to the high priest Jesus:

Hebrews 6:13-20 (WEB):
(13) For when God made a promise to Abraham, since he could swear by no one greater, he swore by himself,
(14) saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.”
(15) Thus, having patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
(16) For men indeed swear by a greater one, and in every dispute of theirs the oath is final for confirmation.
(17) In this way God, being determined to show more abundantly to the heirs of the promise the immutability of his counsel, interposed with an oath;
(18) that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have a strong encouragement, who have fled for refuge to take hold of the hope set before us.
(19) This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and entering into that which is within the veil;
(20) where as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

1 Peter 2:9 (WEB):
(9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellence of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

Revelation 5:9-10 (WEB):
(9) They sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book, and to open its seals: for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood, out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,
(10) and made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on the earth.”

So as part of the royal priesthood of God's kingdom, and a holy people, Christians will not be under the New Covenant.

 

[theefaith]

What New Testament verses verify that Israel will receive the New Covenant please?

Christ replaced david as king Lk 1:32-33
The church replaced Israel and the new covenant replaced the old Matt 21:43

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

one mediator only!

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediatorbetween God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

the church is now israel!

 

[theefaith]

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Jesus Christ is king!

We must submit and obey the king of kings!

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

And In the absence of the king we must submit and obey the kings ministers!

Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18
Lk 10:16
Jn 13:20
Jn 20:21-23

Example of Joseph under pharaoh administers the kingdom and his brothers obeyed and submitted to him. Gen 37

Gen 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.

8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Obedience to Joseph is obedience to pharaoh!

Obedience to Peter and the Apostles is obedience to Christ!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What New Testament verses verify that Israel will receive the New Covenant please?

Romans 11:25-29
King James Version

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

2 Corinthians 3:13-16
King James Version

13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away


Though there are but a very few NT instances, one would expect that to be the case. THe NT is the instruction for the church which is different from Israel.

But the OT has many verses that say God will restore Israel and once again return them to prominence. It also shows as I have posted, that God Himself will bring the surviving remnant of Israel into the new covenant.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And what do you consider the "provisions" to be may I ask?

YOu don't know after all the times I have posted them? Really??

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The provisions as written and inspired by god are:

1. It is a covenant with the houses of Israel and Judah (all "jews")
2. God will put His law in their heart (law singular)
3. He will then once again be their God and they His people.
4. All "Jews" will know th eLord from the least to teh greatest.
5. God will forgive their iniquity (singular)
6. He will remember their sin (plural) no more!

Thee are the only provisions of the New Covenant!

 

[Moriah's Song]

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Jer 31:33...But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Several things about that prophecy in this OT prophecy are missed and many do not understand that Jeremiah's prophesy was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended upon the leaders of the tribes of Israel and Judah after hearing Peters sermon.

1) Act 2:5..."Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven." ---- This verse is important because the OT has a law that all 12 tribes were to have one representative of that tribe attend the 3 major festivals each year. The underlined term "devout men from every nation"; "nation" meaning every tribe's leader means that they were there on that eventful feast day. Those 12 representatives were also among that list of people from all the tribes are mentioned in Acts 2:9-11.
2) Act 2:16-17a...but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,...Jeremiah's prophecy looked forward to that Day of Pentecost when God's spirit "wrote it in their hearts."
3) Act 2:14...But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. ---- Here you have the representative of "tribe of Judah" fulfilling his obligation to be at the feast on that historical day of Pentecost.
4) Act 2:36...Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." ---- Here you have the representative from the "tribe of Israel" fulfilling his obligation to be at the feast on the historical day of Pentecost as well.
5) Peter then address the representative of the tribe of Israel directly out of that multitude by saying: "Men of Israel, hear these words:" (Act 2:22
6) Again Peter speaks to the House of Israel representative and says..."Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."(Act 2:36)
​

Fulfillment confirmed by the NT writers in Hebrews:

6) Heb 8:10 - "This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."
7) Heb 10:16 - "This is the covenant that I will make with them [Judah and Israel] after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,"
​

Further fulfillment is implied in Revelations:

1) Rev 7:4 - And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel,
2) Rev 7:5 - twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Judah,
3) Rev 7:9 - After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
​

Lastly, there is an OT prophecy in Ezekiel 37 concerning God's joining two sticks that Ezekiel was to gather and then hold them together in one hand. God would then miraculously join those two sticks of Judah and Israel together. The fact that the above verses are in Acts, Hebrews and finally in Revelations indicates that that prophecy was also fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost as 3 different writers confirm Jeremiah's prophecy.

​

 

[theefaith]

Jer 31:33...But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Several things about that prophecy in this OT prophecy are missed and many do not understand that Jeremiah's prophesy was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended upon the leaders of the tribes of Israel and Judah after hearing Peters sermon.

1) Act 2:5..."Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven." ---- This verse is important because the OT has a law that all 12 tribes were to have one representative of that tribe attend the 3 major festivals each year. The underlined term "devout men from every nation"; "nation" meaning every tribe's leader means that they were there on that eventful feast day. Those 12 representatives were also among that list of people from all the tribes are mentioned in Acts 2:9-11.
2) Act 2:16-17a...but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,...Jeremiah's prophecy looked forward to that Day of Pentecost when God's spirit "wrote it in their hearts."
3) Act 2:14...But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. ---- Here you have the representative of "tribe of Judah" fulfilling his obligation to be at the feast on that historical day of Pentecost.
4) Act 2:36...Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." ---- Here you have the representative from the "tribe of Israel" fulfilling his obligation to be at the feast on the historical day of Pentecost as well.
5) Peter then address the representative of the tribe of Israel directly out of that multitude by saying in Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, hear these words:"...
6) Again Peter speaks to the House of Israel representative and says..."Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."(Act 2:36)
​

Fulfillment confirmed by the NT writers in Hebrews:

6) Heb 8:10 - "This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."
7) Heb 10:16 - "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,"
​

Further fulfillment is implied in Revelations:

1) Rev 7:4 - And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel,
2) Rev 7:5 - twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Judah,
3) Rev 7:9 - After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
​

Lastly, there is an OT prophecy in Ezekiel 37 concerning God's joining two sticks that Ezekiel was to gather and then hold them together in one hand. God would then miraculously join those two sticks of Judah and Israel together. The fact that the above verses are in Acts, Hebrews and finally in Revelations indicates that that prophecy was also fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost as 3 different writers confirm Jeremiah's prophecy.

​

and
Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Mia fulfilled in

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

also ez 36:25-27 the promise of the father fulfilled in baptism acts 2:38-39

God’s promise is a sacred oath and a sacred oath is a sacrament

 

[Moriah's Song]

Is there a reason my post #392 about that Jeremiah 31 Prophecy is avoided?

 

[theefaith]

Is there a reason my post #393 about that Jeremiah 31 Prophecy is avoided?

I agree with you

Christ replaced david as king
The new covenant replaced the old
The church replaced Israel

 

[Moriah's Song]

I agree with you

Christ replaced david as king
The new covenant replaced the old
The church replaced Israel

Ooop! on my part. Thanks!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jer 31:33...But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Several things about that prophecy in this OT prophecy are missed and many do not understand that Jeremiah's prophesy was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended upon the leaders of the tribes of Israel and Judah after hearing Peters sermon.

1) Act 2:5..."Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven." ---- This verse is important because the OT has a law that all 12 tribes were to have one representative of that tribe attend the 3 major festivals each year. The underlined term "devout men from every nation"; "nation" meaning every tribe's leader means that they were there on that eventful feast day. Those 12 representatives were also among that list of people from all the tribes are mentioned in Acts 2:9-11.
2) Act 2:16-17a...but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,...Jeremiah's prophecy looked forward to that Day of Pentecost when God's spirit "wrote it in their hearts."
3) Act 2:14...But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. ---- Here you have the representative of "tribe of Judah" fulfilling his obligation to be at the feast on that historical day of Pentecost.
4) Act 2:36...Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." ---- Here you have the representative from the "tribe of Israel" fulfilling his obligation to be at the feast on the historical day of Pentecost as well.
5) Peter then address the representative of the tribe of Israel directly out of that multitude by saying in Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, hear these words:"...
6) Again Peter speaks to the House of Israel representative and says..."Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."(Act 2:36)
​

Fulfillment confirmed by the NT writers in Hebrews:

6) Heb 8:10 - "This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."
7) Heb 10:16 - "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,"
​

Further fulfillment is implied in Revelations:

1) Rev 7:4 - And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel,
2) Rev 7:5 - twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Judah,
3) Rev 7:9 - After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
​

Lastly, there is an OT prophecy in Ezekiel 37 concerning God's joining two sticks that Ezekiel was to gather and then hold them together in one hand. God would then miraculously join those two sticks of Judah and Israel together. The fact that the above verses are in Acts, Hebrews and finally in Revelations indicates that that prophecy was also fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost as 3 different writers confirm Jeremiah's prophecy.

​

Lots of nice philosophizing and opinion making but no facts. God made it very clear that the New Covenant was not just for the representatives of the 12 tribes (and how do you know if these "representatives" were really there as the ten northern tribes had been scattered under the Assyrian invasion under Senacherib) but for all Jews! Verse 34 bears that out without ambiguity- though that doesn't stop people from reinterpreting Scripture to suit their fancy:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Words like ALL and from the least to the greatest is all inclusive and not just meanig a representative sample.

Also we have these promises of all Israel (the survivors that is) being saved:

Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Only through manipulating gods Word can anyone imply these means just a represntation!

Zechariah 13:8-9
King James Version

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.


Also I noticed you conveniently ignore the verse that says this:

Jeremiah 31:34
King James Version

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Jews no longer need to be told to know the Lord??????? Last time I looked ALL still means ALL! from the lowliest Jew to the Benjamin Netenyahu's should all know the Lord according to the bible. But I am sure you have a nifty reinterpretation of this as well.

 

[Moriah's Song]

and how do you know if these "representatives" were really there as the ten northern tribes had been scattered under the Assyrian invasion under Senacherib

They were there because God required them to be at all major feast.

Exo 18:21,25- [Moses speaking to the people] "Moreover choose able men from all the people, such as fear God, men who are trustworthy and who hate a bribe; and place such men over the people as rulers of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties, and of tens." ...."Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties, and of tens."
Ex 34:22-23...And you shall observe the feast of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end. Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.

Num 1:16 - These were the ones chosen from the congregation, the leaders of their ancestral tribes, the heads of the clans of Israel.

Deu 1:13 - Choose wise, understanding, and experienced men, according to your tribes, and I will appoint them as your heads.'
Deu 16:16 - "Three times a year all your males shall appear before the LORD your God at the place which he will choose: at the feast of unleavened bread, at the feast of weeks, and at the feast of booths. They shall not appear before the LORD empty-handed; [Note: the place God chose was Jerusalem]

Exo 23:14-17..."Three times in the year you shall keep a feast to me. You shall keep the feast of unleavened bread; as I commanded you, you shall eat unleavened bread for seven days at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. None shall appear before me empty-handed.You shall keep the feast of harvest, of the first fruits of your labor, of what you sow in the field. You shall keep the feast of in-gathering at the end of the year, when you gather in from the field the fruit of your labor. Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD[in Jerusalem].​

 

[Ronald Nolette]

They were there because God required them to be at all major feast.

Exo 18:21,25- [Moses speaking to the people] "Moreover choose able men from all the people, such as fear God, men who are trustworthy and who hate a bribe; and place such men over the people as rulers of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties, and of tens." ...."Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties, and of tens."
Ex 34:22-23...And you shall observe the feast of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end. Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.

Num 1:16 - These were the ones chosen from the congregation, the leaders of their ancestral tribes, the heads of the clans of Israel.

Deu 1:13 - Choose wise, understanding, and experienced men, according to your tribes, and I will appoint them as your heads.'
Deu 16:16 - "Three times a year all your males shall appear before the LORD your God at the place which he will choose: at the feast of unleavened bread, at the feast of weeks, and at the feast of booths. They shall not appear before the LORD empty-handed; [Note: the place God chose was Jerusalem]

Exo 23:14-17..."Three times in the year you shall keep a feast to me. You shall keep the feast of unleavened bread; as I commanded you, you shall eat unleavened bread for seven days at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. None shall appear before me empty-handed.You shall keep the feast of harvest, of the first fruits of your labor, of what you sow in the field. You shall keep the feast of in-gathering at the end of the year, when you gather in from the field the fruit of your labor. Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD[in Jerusalem].​

Sure but that has nothing to do with teh Neww covenant which has all Israel and not just representatives, unless you are trying to tell us that all Israel gets saved when their representatives get saved.

 

[Mungo]

Hebrews 8:8 (WEB):

For finding fault with them, he said, “Behold, the days come”, says the Lord, “that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;​

So both the house of Israel and the house of Judah will be under the new covenant.

OK, I haven't read all through this thread, so apologies if this has been covered, but regarding Heb 8:8 what is meant by the house of Israel and the house of Judah?
Is it the tribes of Israel or something else?

What, or who, is the house of Israel and the house of Judah?
I think the answer is the king.
In 2Sam 12:8 the Lord (via Nathan) says to David "I..... gave you the house of Israel and of Judah..."
The king represents in himself the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Another example of the king personifying the whole house is given in Isaiah 7:13 where Isaiah calls king Ahaz the house of David.

Now who became the King?
Who was promised the throne of David?
Answer: Jesus:
"He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High;
and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of his kingdom there will be no end.” (Lk 1:32-33).

Jesus is the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah; he embodies the Covenant in himself
In Isaiah, God speaks about the coming Messiah in several "Servant" passages
Is 42:6-7 I have given you as a covenant to the people, a light to the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. This is very similar to what Jesus says about himself in Lk 4:18
Is 49:8 I have kept you and given you as a covenant to the people,
The implications are that Jesus is a living embodiment of the Covenant

The Messiah is given as a Covenant to the people, an embodiment of the covenant. And note he is to be a "light to the nations". He is not just for the Jews.

The Mosaic/Sinai Covenant could be, and was, broken. But if Jesus is the embodiment of the Covenant it can never be broken. That is why it is an everlasting covenant .

God says to Ezekial (and note this is long after David is dead)
“My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow my ordinances and be careful to observe my statutes. They shall dwell in the land where your fathers dwelt that I gave to my servant Jacob; they and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there for ever; and David my servant shall be their prince for ever. I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them (Ez 37:24-26).

Anyone can come into this Covenant. Since the Covenant is Christ, if we are "in Christ", a phrase Paul used often, we are in the Covenant.