Should Christians Always Be Healed?

[Hidden In Him]

No, I think I try to obey the Lord's commandments, without adding extra ones. You might remember the Pharisees added extra ones, and it didn't work.

Yes, but I'm not adding anything. I'm merely quoting the book of James to you. What's actually happened is that the church has subtracting so many things from the faith that now if someone tries to uphold actual New Testament Christianity it appears as if they are trying to "add" something to it.

In reality this is not so. They are simply trying to restore it to its original form.

 

[Bob Estey]

Yes, but I'm not adding anything. I'm merely quoting the book of James to you. What's actually happened is that the church has subtracting so many things from the faith that now if someone tries to uphold actual New Testament Christianity it appears as if they are trying to "add" something to it.

In reality this is not so. They are simply trying to restore it to its original form.

The Lord gave us a handful of commandments. I don't see any need to add anything to them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The Lord gave us a handful of commandments. I don't see any need to add anything to them.

What do you see as the need for the Bible? In full.

 

[Bob Estey]

What do you see as the need for the Bible? In full.

There are just two commandments. But they need some explaining. The Bible explains. Keep in mind, the object isn't to fully understand the Bible. The object is to get to know God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

There are just two commandments. But they need some explaining.

I'd say they need a ton of it. If they didn't, instead of a Bible we'd have two verses.

To understand the Bible is to understand God. So which is better: To understand 2 verses, or understand 31,102?

 

[Bob Estey]

I'd say they need a ton of it. If they didn't, instead of a Bible we'd have two verses.

To understand the Bible is to understand God. So which is better: To understand 2 verses, or understand 31,102?

Well, the Bible is around 1000 pages, if you call that a ton. But if we walk with the Lord - pray constantly - we can learn more easily and quickly.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well, the Bible is around 1000 pages, if you call that a ton. But if we walk with the Lord - pray constantly - we can learn more easily and quickly.

You just evaded the question, LoL.

Listen, since you have another thread going on this subject anyway, how about if we keep this one clean and centered on the subject of healing only, ok?

 

[Bob Estey]

You just evaded the question, LoL.

Listen, since you have another thread going on this subject anyway, how about if we keep this one clean and centered on the subject of healing only, ok?

What was the question?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No need for apologies, bro, and I understand your position. I actually understand everyone's position here in some ways. But now, that is not actually the position I take. Quite the opposite. I was simply showing you that there are reasons for not simply becoming despondent and losing hope. Read my Post #558, the second response. If I were to have given up hope, I would not have been in a position to hear God show me what I needed to hear on that issue, and I would likely have had to have an unnecessary operation. If my condition had been more serious, who knows if I might have had a surgery that actually made me worse. I know of several people who have had nasal surgery, and lived to find out that it only made their condition worse.

No one I know loses hope my friend.

We have hope. Even in sickness, even in poverty. Because in Christ all things are possible and we look to see why we are in this situation

We know God did not cause the illness or whatever is wrong But we understand as he has shown throughout all the word how he uses those things as a positive to others.

We should never lose hope. Only know somethings God says yes, right now. Sometimes God sas yes, But later, and Sometimes God says buy grace is sufficient.

I have witnessed all three. And in all three situations. God was greatly blessed. Because in all three, The focus was on God and the situation and what the Long term effects were.

The amount of people I know who fund christ because of the way Gods people react to and persevere through tribulation and no matter hw bad it got. They never floundered in faith, But God god the glory in all things. Is to great to ignore.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh, not at all. Their intent was good, I’m certain of that. I’m more than willing to cut them some slack. But if the stated principle that God always desires healing in this world is false, it leads to cruel situations like this.

Where I’m still unsettled is that I have to acknowledge the necessity of faith as stated by Hidden in Him, Mayflower, and Faithbuiders, while knowing empirically that miraculous healings are (almost by definition) rare.

[Epilogue: @Paul, your current signature is delightfully ironic considering the topic. The Psalmist sounds like he could be one of Job's friends.]

But…WHY are they rare? Men in the past seemed to wonder that when they asked, oh, where is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Where is the God of my fathers??

It seems like they were asking, why doesn’t He act in such miraculous manner as He did for them? Why has He seemed so silent?

The answer in scripture is usually…not exactly one reason. It is usually a balance that must be sought out. I’m trying to think of an example…like, where is the balance. A friend of mine describes it like this: there are two ditches on the side of a road. You must try not to fall into either of them. So one ditch is: you pray and don’t receive because you waver in your trust/faith. But James ALSO said, you don’t receive because you ask with the wrong motive. So if you insist on one of the verses, to the exclusion or refusal OF the other, you are most certainly not in the balance of the road but rather in one of the ditches.

And then you also could throw in a third ball to have to juggle and not drop, which is that Jesus learned the obedience of trust/faith by the things He suffered, not by the things He didn’t suffer. Shouldn’t we also learn the obedience of an unwavering trust and shouldn’t we also learn it by the things we suffer?

Another thing to ask is if we could possibly be the church that God said of, you have little strength, but you have not denied Me. Or the church of which He said something like…wake up and strengthen what little remains? (I should look that up, going on memory.)

 

[marks]

He knew that God was calling him to preach the Gospel at Rome, and knew that a snake bite was not going to prevent him from doing so. Satan tried to kill him using the snake, but the Holy Spirit stepped in and made the venom inactive. There is no anti-venom like Holy Spirit anti-venom!!

That's my take on this whole question. I'm just to fulfill my mission . . . let God worry about my strength and health! He'll do what is good.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The trouble is when people are walking in sin that God cannot tolerate. Then the questions start entering in.

We should discuss this. I'll think about how to approach it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Shouldn’t we also learn the obedience of an unwavering trust and shouldn’t we also learn it by the things we suffer?

People give suffering a bad wrap, failing to realize it's God's heavy duty hammer and tongs, and we are being remade.

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

People give suffering a bad wrap, failing to realize it's God's heavy duty hammer and tongs, and we are being remade.

Much love!

Even though you're right, suffering still sucks, especially when you (or someone you care about) is going through it. The value of suffering is usually only visible in the rear-view mirror.

 

[marks]

Even though you're right, suffering still sucks, especially when you (or someone you care about) is going through it. The value of suffering is usually only visible in the rear-view mirror.

That's where faith comes in.

Romans 5:1-5 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

James 1:1-4 KJV
1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2) My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3) Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4) But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

To trust Jesus fully in the midst of great pain is to be grateful for that pain, knowing that God is doing great and wonderful things. That's what trust in Jesus is, to me, the confidence that these things are all being used by God for great good.

Should we spend our lives trying to shake off that which God has sent to renew us?

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

Lord grant me patience - and I want it right now! (But please, don't make me suffer for it!)

 

[marks]

Even though you're right, suffering still sucks, especially when you (or someone you care about) is going through it. The value of suffering is usually only visible in the rear-view mirror.

1 Peter 5:10 KJV
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

1 Peter 4:1-2 KJV
1) Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2) That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Patient endurance will get you there.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, Mark. This much is good. And the reason it should be as simple as this is because we are walking in obedience to His will. This is when there is no doubt and there is no question. Not that I am Paul, but the above is the approach I take to all negative situations that might threaten my health or welfare. Anything that would hinder my calling I simply shake off and keep moving, because while I am not prefect, I know I am on track with what He has called me to do and it is in His will that I stay there.

So the above is a good way of looking at it, IMO. The trouble is when people are walking in sin that God cannot tolerate. Then the questions start entering in.

Are you able to trust God with your sin?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

As I reflect on

Are you able to trust God with your sin?

Much love!

Yes, because I don't believe I am walking in anything so severe that it would incur judgment. I suppose that could change if I started getting really stupid, but my main problem is a fierce temper. If I continued to walk in it and not forgive certain situations, this would be a form of disobedience before Him that He might not tolerate. But my saving grace is that I am generally very forgiving, even if it can be hard for me sometimes with those I am especially close to, or if they are especially insulting in some way.

Why are you asking?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This is an interesting reference, Victory. Without wanting to sound "preachy," let me just respond by saying that in some cases wine symbolized the Holy Spirit, such as in the comparison with being "drunk with wine." I think it is the blessings of hearing His voice (i.e. receiving teaching and revelation from Him concerning His word and issues in your life) and being in His Presence (thru worship, prayer, etc) that brings both joy and boldness (Galatians 5:22, Ephesians 6:18-19).

you said “ I think it is the blessings of hearing His voice (i.e. receiving teaching and revelation from Him concerning His word and issues in your life) and being in His Presence (thru worship, prayer, etc) that brings both joy and boldness (Galatians 5:22, Ephesians 6:18-19).”

Your reference to being in His presence makes me consider the verse of the day which came up this morning in the Psalms.

I will bless the LORD who has counseled me; indeed, my mind instructs me in the night.

my mind instructs me in the night makes me think of the instruction to “let this mind be in you that was in Jesus Christ” Philippians 2:5, Philippians 3:15, Romans 7:25, Romans 12:21. teach us which way to go that we do not stumble in the night, not knowing what we stumble over??
​

I have set the Lord continually before me; Because He is at my right hand, (Hebrews 8:1) I will not be shaken.

Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoices; my flesh also will dwell securely(1 Corinthians 15:44, 1 Corinthians 15:53, 1 Corinthians 15:54). For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor allow Your Holy one to undergo decay. Acts 13:34-37.

you will make known to me the path of life(Acts 2:28, John 14:6); In your presence is fullness of joy (John 15:11, 1 John 1:14, 1 Peter 1:7, 2 John 1:12); in your right hand there are pleasures forever (enduring, perpetual….) In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Colossians 2:11

I get that is a lot, but it is hopeful to me and a good reminder today of who He is. Thank you.