What I Like About Universalism
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Ok Jiggy, I'll assume you are serious. To live righteously is to strive to obey all of what Jesus said in the NT. The number one incentive would be to avoid eternity in Hell. How's that for starters? Do I wrongly assume that you believe that everybody will be saved regardless of what they do? How about Satan?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Yes you wrongly assume. I believe that one must surrender, bow, submit and confess allegiance to Christ.
Now for the righteous living, all anyone needs to do is strive to obey? They don't actually have to be 100% obedient to be righteous?
So you believe in salvation by works eh?
That's why I got saved many years ago. How horrible would it be to start chopping off body parts? Hell is much worse.
Mark 9:43-48 (ESV)
[sup]43 [/sup]And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. [sup]45 [/sup]And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. [sup]47 [/sup]And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, [sup]48 [/sup]‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’
What happens to those who never submit to God?
No, that's not all. They must believe in and confess Jesus as their Lord. Striving does not mean 100% obedience. Many 'Christians' are not striving and will not enter His Kingdom, ever.
Luke 13:23-24 (ESV)
[sup]23 [/sup]And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, [sup]24 [/sup]“Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Nope. But true salvation produces good works and obedience.
Have you heard of such people? The scriptures state that every knee bows and every tongue confesses allegiance to God and that Christ is preeminent in all things.
So what/who is the narrow door?
So you don't have to be 100% obedient to be righteous but you do have to try?
Please clarify Jiggy, are you saying that everyone will be saved, Holy Spirit blasphemers, those who die while committing mass murder, those who hate Jesus, Satan, evil spirits, etc?
Everyone will be reconciled back to Father through Christ in this age or/and in the age to come just as the scriptures declare.
While we were sinners Ducky, Christ died for us.
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Now why not answer the questions I asked you.
Even Satan? So then, a suicide bomber who murders thousands is saved? Really Jiggy!
OkNow why not answer the questions I posed to you.
"Have you heard of such people?"
Yeah, they're all over the place.
"The scriptures state that every knee bows and every tongue confesses allegiance to God and that Christ is preeminent in all things."
I asked which Scripture you are referring to. Did I miss your answer?
Anything else?
The scriptures state that all created things will be reconciled back to Father through Christ. Do you deny what the scriptures declare?
Do you have proof in the scriptures? Where do the scriptures state that anyone "never submits"?
When did you ask, did I miss your question?
I have sworn by my own name; I have spoken the truth, and I will never go back on my word: Every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess allegiance to me. Isaiah 45:23
For the Scriptures say, "'As surely as I live,' says the LORD, 'every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess and give praise to God. Romans14:11
Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11
tomwebster
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No, do you?
Revelation 20:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup]and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
If you are saying we can be saved after we die then you are not preaching Christianity.
All of which is true, but not unto salvation.
Revelation 14:11 (ESV)
[sup]11 [/sup]And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
Revelation 20:15 (ESV)
[sup]15 [/sup]And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Your position is very risky Jiggy.
We have been here before Ducky and even though I doubt you will put forth the effort, study the Greek texts and see that aion, aionios have been mistranslated in these verses.
That is a total cop-out. The many NT accounts of the eternal fire have nothing to do with 'mistranslations'.
Sorry Jiggy, but our English translations are quite consistent. Hell is real and eternal.Guess I was right in doubting you.
Yes they are consistently errant.
I do agree that hell is real and eternal but it can not be unending and forever. You misunderstand the scriptures.
How long was Jonah in the fish's belly? For ever?
Is the old covenant for ever?
Tis the same Hebrew word olam and the same Greek word aion .
The early ekklesia understood and taught universal reconciliation just as Paul, Peter and the other apostles.
It's all right there in historical writings and the scriptures, but religious paradigm can be quite blinding, eh Ducky.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Yes they are consistently errant.
I do agree that hell is real and eternal but it can not be unending and forever. You misunderstand the scriptures.
How long was Jonah in the fish's belly? For ever?
Is the old covenant for ever?
Tis the same Hebrew word olam and the same Greek word aion .
The early ekklesia understood and taught universal reconciliation just as Paul, Peter and the other apostles.
It's all right there in historical writings and the scriptures, but religious paradigm can be quite blinding, eh Ducky.
Religious paradigms are just teaching of men!
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