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lforrest

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You just can't admit that you can't see the riddle. So, you become sanctimonious as a defense. Whatever. Your points are taken. But let me ask you this: You said that I should believe the written word of God over revelation--in other words, MY revelation. So, who do you suggest I follow? Who is the person I should turn to to interpret the scriptures for me? You? No? Who then? I'm reading John MacArthur's book on Revelation right now. Shall he be my authority? What say you?

I don't believe there is a riddle to it. It pleased the Lord to spend a few weeks teaching me over a decade ago, and those teachings are part of me now. I don't think you would be willing that anyone teach you, and I much prefer the Spirit of God myself. Trouble it will take true repentance (to change your mind) God knows what that will take or if you're willing.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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... the dirty?
Yikes_anim.gif
It Should say the diety.
 
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Pearl

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Uh, yeah. I used to be a witch. But I've repented of that. But even more, I found my answer. I saw witchcraft as a way of finding God, but it's not. What I really was, what I was really aiming for, was the spirit of the magi. And now I get it. It's like your spirit is that of the religious leaders. So, you act that out in your Christianity. You get what I mean.

@Edward Gordon You are twisting words. True Christians love Jesus who live in us through His Holy Spirit. Nothing to do with the spirits of leaders. and definitely not the spirit of magi, which is not at all a teaching of Jesus. You are so very uninformed about true Christianity. But then you don't want that do you because you've invented your own religion.
 

Edward Gordon

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A note of some concern.

There are some here that are losing sight of their cause for Christ and are ready to stone a man that as of yet has done nothing wrong. He is an open book to me...

@Heart2Soul I'm gladdened by some of your words to @Edward Gordon and in some of the associated subject matter you replied to, that you are one of the few here that consider him a genuine and open person, worthy of edification and love as we have in Christ. I truly believe he has genuine love for me as I do for him as part of the same family in the Body of Christ.

Thank you, APAK. I appreciate your support. I really do.
thankyou.gif


IMHO...
Violently offensive? I am not offended by his doctrine of faith...but intermingling witchcraft tools with being a follower of Jesus...

Excuse me...what witchcraft tools?

Only kind of puts doubt in someone's mind as to which messiah is he following...I was once into such things and it opened doors to all kinds of demons in my life....

His doctrine is somewhat different than the Christian doctrine...
I didn't know what a Veridican Church was about so I took the time to research before replying...I found his statement of faith is very similar to the Christian faith...He seems to be a trinitarian...which is different than your belief but that belief is not a "salvation" issue.
Anyway, I agree...we should do better at speaking in love...I have heard some of the best testimonials from people who were once atheists, Satanists, or agnostic....but when the Holy Spirit began to minister to their hearts their eyes were opened and their lives radically changed!.
I think I could use some more radical changing...:)

For the record, if you go searching Veridicanism, you will find it in different stages of its development--my development. So, when it comes the Trinity, I do believe there are three aspects of God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But we do see God as a monistic entity--THE monistic entity. So, while I do believe there are modalities of God that are the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, I fundamentally assert that God is the only thing that actually exists. This is a deep philosophical issue, and if someone were to ask me if I believe in the Trinity, I would say, yes. I probably wouldn't bother with the monistic qualification unless pressed. Besides, even if everything is a dream image in the only Mind that actually exists, I am part of that Divine menagerie, so for me, it's as real as it gets.

That is simply a star, and you should know better. I am simply shocked that you are actually trying to defend a Satanic symbol!

YOU make it Satanic. It is not Satanic to us (Veridicans), and since you are not a member of our Church, what you think about it doesn't carry a lot of weight. You probably think everything you don't agree with is Satanic anyway, so what does it matter?
 
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Edward Gordon

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I agree with the first part... Through studying scriptures from a child, His Father revealed to Him Who He was. Jesus did indeed discover Himself and His identity through the OT. But you are missing the fact that after His resurrection, He demonstrated the model by which we are to discover Him... Through Moses and prophets. He was standing right there in front of them, the 2 disciples as the walked to Emmaus, Jesus could have done any number of things to prove to them He was alive and still the Messiah. He could have flown. He could have worked all manner of miracles... He could have caused them to fly. And yep, they would have believed Him. And the result of that would have that the church would have used that as an example of how to identify truth. Miracles.

Backlit...at the time Jesus was walking with the two on the road to Emaus not one letter had been drawn in the New Testament. Of course, he was going to refer to the OT to show himself. And the OT still does point to Jesus Christ. But either you're going to be a kind of Jew or you're going to make the decision to follow ONLY Jesus Christ. It's not me forcing that choice on you, Jesus Christ has forced that choice on us--assuming we're called in the first place.
 

Edward Gordon

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you queried Christadelphians. Might as well lump the Biblical Unitarians in the mix as they are nearly the same.
Each have about 50k known members around the globe.

Now I do not participate in any way, singularly or collectively, in any formal or informal setting with either of these sects. I just like a few of their beliefs, where over 99 percent of so-called Christendom loathe.
I am in the 0.5 percent group...

1. They are fiercely Anti-Trinitarian.
2. The have no formal or informal hierarchy. They meet by chance or if one knows of a another member close by, from list they maintain. And the setting is usually in someone's home. Never been inclined to meet yet.
3. They believe Christ was created as a human male by the Spirit of God. No pre-existent active life.
4. They are well-versed in scripture. They love it and so do I.

Now apart from these areas there are some major areas I do not agree with them on.

1. They believe as many MS churches that there are genuine Jews who still have a special route to salvation, or will have a special time frame to become saved in the future. I do not...I can elaborate of this at a later date.
2. They believe as many MS churches that when Christ returns there will be an earthly Kingdom. I believe I'm in the Kingdom today and Christ rules today. There will be no 2nd chance to become saved! Folks get hung up on the physical and literal and what justice means to man and not God's view of it, who created it. When Christ returns he will come in from another dimension not wielding a physical sword ready for blood justice. By that time Judgement is already set and completed by what is established and has grown into the hearts or spirits of men - of Christ or self. He will leave the same way from the symbolic mount of Olives, back into the dimension he lives in, and I will go with him, and others, into the New Jerusalem, the city of everlasting light and life.
3. They believe that actual water immersion is key to salvation. I do not.
4. They believe one is never assured of salvation. I disagree.

Thank you. I appreciate that summary. Since I am a monist, I am not passionate about the Trinity one way or the other. Actually, I guess I would be a Trinitarian, because I do believe God presents Himself to mankind as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I don't see him presenting Himself in any other way that leads to anything like salvation and Eternal life. I mean, clearly, He presents himself as the Divine Buddha, but if one follows that, and if it works out for them, when they die, they perish (by the Veridican definition of perishing). Same with all other religions. Actually, it's the same with most forms of Christianity as well.
-------------------And are you psychic or what?:cool: --------------
Yes, I have Anglo-Kiwi connections, a part of the Commonwealth and with both a formal and informal educational background

Psychic? Yes, but everyone is. Psychism is just part of the functioning of mind. For instance, telepathy, everyone experiences it at some point, especially if they are married, and even if not, it's how they pray. Right? They are telepathically communicating with God. If they feel God has spoken to them, that's also telepathy--unless they really do have a burning bush that others can also see that is audibly talking to them--and then that would be a whole other kind of miracle.

Most Christians believe strongly in psychic abilities, they just don't call it that. For instance, especially in the Pentecostalism that I grew up in, the preacher may have a "word from the Lord" for someone, and then proceed to give what anyone else would call a psychic reading. So, let's say you sent me your picture, and I looked at it, and I gave you a reading. Most Christians would consider that the work of the devil and witchcraft. If on the other hand, I take your picture and say, "I believe God has a message for you." Well then everything is fine.

And maybe there is a difference. For any gifts I have, I now lay at the feet of Christ to be used in his service. So, even if the devil is the one who gave me the power to see the message in symbols, I now take that and give it to Christ. And this kind of thing is illustrated in Jesus' parable of the Unjust Steward (Luke 16:1-13).

Here's what I seem particularly good at: the interpretation of symbols (astrology, tarot, dreams, apocalyptic prophecy). That said, I have renounced tarot. I personally feel it is a kind of witchcraft, and while I don't have strong emotions about it, I have renounced witchcraft and repented from it, and tarot just is too much like it. I feel uneasy about it now, and in truth, there's nothing in the Gospel to support it. Besides, with dreams, Revelation, and astrology, I have plenty of symbology to focus on. And they all have Gospel support.

I can communicate with astral entities. Sometimes with people who have crossed over, but I'll be honest with you about that. I'm not sure they are really the "people" because they sound a lot like demons, and when you channel astral entities, you get a lot of demons. I mean, it's a fact. And they are some lying spirits, I tell you. And so, I now find mediumship to be unreliable at best. And it's not like you have to use mediumship to talk to God or Christ or the Holy Spirit anyway; that's telepathy--or prayer if you will. So, now, unless I have to talk to a demon, and there are times for that, especially in exorcism, I don't channel any longer. And I suppose channeling is just telepathy anyway. Besides, they usually strike up the conversations with me. They're around me all the time trying to sabotage and get me to stop.

That said, I no longer astral project to find people who have crossed over. I no longer think it is necessary. I no longer think it's reliable, and there is no Gospel support for it, anyway.

As for the practice of witchcraft. It works. It does. Spells work. But the thing with witchcraft is that it's void of Christ. Miracle working, which is like witchcraft but done in the name of Jesus Christ, is more powerful. Witchcraft is of and for the world. The path leads to nothing, and it leads to no Eternal life. It leaves one alone in the world because ultimately even God becomes a kind of unknown spiritual entity. He stops being the Father and becomes a force. And then, of course, the demons. Most witches derive their power from demonic forces. And demons destroy you in the end. They lead you to death. A witch dies, and that's it. A witch only has the world. I repent of that, and I feel sorry for witches at the same time. Witchcraft is any religion without Christ. That's it. And Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You really learn that hard when you go walking down dark paths, my friend. I can tell you!

I'm sorry to go on like this. I don't expect you to read all of this or comment. I just wanted to put it out there, to say it. And to tell people what I've repented of. I hate the time I spent away from Christ, even if in the end it was necessary for my mission now. And maybe like the scribe Jesus refers to in Matthew 13, I have brought out the old and the new.

Then He told them, “For this reason, every scribe who has been discipled in the kingdom of heaven is like a homeowner who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old." (Matthew 13:52)
 
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Cassandra

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I have a couple of questions.

Why do you hold that the bread and wine are transformed into the body and the blood of Christ? Jesus was still alive when he instituted it.
The disciples had bread and wine, not flesh and blood of Christ. He wasn't missing any pieces, a Lamb without blemish. I don't get it.

And so, are you saying that you must eat his actual flesh and blood and turn Him into a "victim" over and over. He said "It is finished" just before He died. What was He referring to? Why does He continually have to offer Himself as a sacrifice? Wasn't once enough?

Why the 1984 NIV. Seems very odd. I read the last one was published in 2011. What is wrong with it that you don't use it?

But if the NIV(1984) has the truth (?), does that mean that truth was not revealed until 1984? And if the veridicans are the true church, then Jesus didn't have one till after 1984, because His book wasn't out yet?
 

Edward Gordon

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Edward Gordon

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Ask him if he actually discards scripture. I had not heard these words from him, have you?

Do you know that the Church of Christ disregards the OT completely with no inherent significance?

You're right, we don't. We follow only the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. We use the rest of the Bible for historical context and wisdom. Is the word of God to be found in any of the other books of the Bible? Sure. Of course. But the CANON for our religion is the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. But I'm not going to follow Paul any more than I'm going to follow John MacArthur or Billy Graham. But I'll certainly listen to what they have to say. But Jesus is my Teacher. My only Teacher.


Well, he disregards everything in the NT except for the Gospels and Revelation as non canon, and I think Revelation must be from NIV, (at least that is what I think I read.)

The NT Gospels and Revelation that we read come from the 1984 ed. of the NIV. That's our authoritative Holy Bible.

Let’s say I wanted to form my own Ism, we’re gonna call it waitingonhimism. The first thing I’d want to accomplish is to set myself away from the rest of the herd, so I’d have to come up with something radical. I say good job @Edward Gordon your very creative.

The separation was automatic. I tried in the beginning very hard to fit in with MS Christians. But no luck. You all cast me out, not the other way around. Wait till I tell you those stories! Ha.

Does your church only consist of men?

That's stupid.

Thank you for taking time to address my post... I want to meditate on your response for a bit. I will probably get back with you tomorrow...

One thing to consider is renouncing all ties to any occult practices and beliefs... ..and leave them completely out of your life....
Astrology and astronomy at one time were considered the same. ...
Quoted from wikipedia..

Astrology and astronomy were archaically treated together (Latin: astrologia), and were only gradually separated in Western 17th century philosophy (the "Age of Reason") with the rejection of astrology. During the later part of the medieval period, astronomy was treated as the foundation upon which astrology could operate.

Since the 18th century they have come to be regarded as completely separate disciplines. Astronomy, the study of objects and phenomena originating beyond the Earth's atmosphere, is a science and is a widely studied academic discipline. Astrology, which uses the apparent positions of celestial objects as the basis for the prediction of future events, is a form of divination and a pseudoscience having no scientific validity.

Look at what you said there, and you're right. For 1700 years the Church had no problem with astrology, and it's in the Gospels as well, and probably in Matthew 24, but that's another discussion. Then SCIENCE comes along, and astrology is suddenly satanic, and of course, no one counts on faith anymore.

We should have never put Jesus on the cross. We should have made him king. What does all our science get us today? What if we had worked on developing faith instead? Now our minds are so shriveled we can hardly generate enough faith to get out of bed in the morning.

I am actually, personally, anti-science. It has its uses, to a point, but like all things of Satan, it leads to nowhere. It leads to spiritual death. I will not worship at the altar of Scientism.

I don't believe there is a riddle to it. It pleased the Lord to spend a few weeks teaching me over a decade ago, and those teachings are part of me now. I don't think you would be willing that anyone teach you, and I much prefer the Spirit of God myself. Trouble it will take true repentance (to change your mind) God knows what that will take or if you're willing.

That's fine then, we'll leave it there. But I wonder why it's okay for you to be taught by the Spirit of God, but when I'm taught by the Holy Spirit, I'm deluded? I mean, you'd have no problem if I just let you tell me what to think--right?

@Edward Gordon You are twisting words. True Christians love Jesus who live in us through His Holy Spirit. Nothing to do with the spirits of leaders. and definitely not the spirit of magi, which is not at all a teaching of Jesus. You are so very uninformed about true Christianity. But then you don't want that do you because you've invented your own religion.

When I say spirit of the Magi, I don't mean like an incarnation. I mean, like the spirit of a football team. We are of the same motivation as the Magi. The rest of your babbling I have no comment on.
yakyakyak.gif


I have a couple of questions.

Why do you hold that the bread and wine are transformed into the body and the blood of Christ? Jesus was still alive when he instituted it.
The disciples had bread and wine, not flesh and blood of Christ. He wasn't missing any pieces, a Lamb without blemish. I don't get it.

And so, are you saying that you must eat his actual flesh and blood and turn Him into a "victim" over and over. He said "It is finished" just before He died. What was He referring to? Why does He continually have to offer Himself as a sacrifice? Wasn't once enough?

Why the 1984 NIV. Seems very odd. I read the last one was published in 2011. What is wrong with it that you don't use it?

But if the NIV(1984) has the truth (?), does that mean that truth was not revealed until 1984? And if the Veridicans are the true church, then Jesus didn't have one till after 1984, because His book wasn't out yet?

I'm sorry, I can't take the time right now to teach you these things. You need to read up on how Bibles were translated and what happened to the NIV since 1984. You need to read the Gospel of John, because Jesus explains all about his flesh and blood. Suffice to say, we are not eating a human body. I have a video on this actually. I don't know if I can post the link here, so I won't. But you can e-mail me and I'll give it to you.

Okay. I'm out for several hours folks. See you soon. :)
 

dev553344

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So, usually, as soon as I talk about my faith, I'm kicked out of any Christian forum I join. After paying money to join one recently, I was kicked out without any notice at all except to say that I had violated some rule--and I have no idea what that rule was--but they got my money!

I would like to not get kicked out of this forum. I am a Veridican. I follow ONLY Jesus Christ, which means I am not a Christian when the word is used to mean the accepted forms of the Christian Church throughout the world. I have registered, this time, as a non-Christian or "other faith."

So, where am I allowed to post and discuss things? I'm not rude to people. I don't cause trouble. I just want to discuss theology in a rational way.
Edward, I'm reading up on the Verdican church.

1. You believe you will be transformed into Christ. The question I have is that you believe you will be transformed into gods then since Jesus is a God. How do you hold to your idea without Godly powers? And don't you feel that might be blasphemous?

2. You believe as the Catholics do that the bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Jesus. I see that as a job of the Holy Spirit. That we consume the bread and wine and the Holy Spirit clenses our souls of sin and grants us longer lives and healings thru the body and blood of Christ. As @Cassandra pointed out Jesus gave that bread and wine to the disciples before he made the atonement. How do you reason that out?

3. Your church statement of faith says:

Satan
"We believe in a spiritual entity that exists to draw human beings away from any development into Christ. We hold that Satan is a creation of God intended to purify the elect and to prune those from the Church who are not truly committed to it by faith. Anyone not in a league with Christ necessarily remains in a league with Satan."

So you think Satan holds an important purpose in the purification of the elect. I see that as a dangerous doctrine and I don't think Satan has the potential to do anything Good and it would be best if he was gone. People would be better off. He was kicked out of heaven with the Blood of Christ as the bible points out. He has no place there now and soon will have no place on earth. I think without Satan God could save us easier such that he makes God's job more difficult. He is an enemy to God and serves only evil. So then your purification of the elect is done by evil?

4. Your church statement of faith says:

Hell
"We believe hell is a place of spiritual agony where souls are kept for the pleasure of God. We believe anyone not transforming into Christ at the time of death will go to hell."

So you're church believes that God gets pleasure from sending people to hell? I kinda see that as anti-God and anti-Love of God. Perhaps your god is more evil than good. How do you work that out?
 

Pearl

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The rest of your babbling I have no comment on.
yakyakyak.gif
I'm not surprised you have no comment on my 'babbling'. You are a fraud and not a true brother in Christ. We don't have spiritual unity as do true Christians who recognise the Holy spirit in each other.
 

dev553344

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@Edward Gordon I'm noticing similarities in the Veridican Church as with the Mormon Church. Both believe they'll be gods or like gods or something along those lines. It's my opinion that both the Veridican Church and the Mormon Church were created by people that were delusional. Both their teachings seem to reflect that. At least I see some delusions in their teachings. Some of it may be correct, but one shouldn't overlook the delusional portions.

I find the bible to be accurate and Paul's writings and the Apostles to be inspired by God and the Holy Spirit. Something to think about. And while yes, Jesus is always correct in his teachings, we as Christians find ways to accept all of the teachings without throwing out portions. Something the Veridican Church shares with the Mormon Church, they both toss out parts of the Bible to create their new doctrines. Dangerous teachings to say the least.
 

Pearl

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Edward, I'm reading up on the Verdican church.

1. You believe you will be transformed into Christ. The question I have is that you believe you will be transformed into gods then since Jesus is a God. How do you hold to your idea without Godly powers? And don't you feel that might be blasphemous?

2. You believe as the Catholics do that the bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Jesus. I see that as a job of the Holy Spirit. That we consume the bread and wine and the Holy Spirit clenses our souls of sin and grants us longer lives and healings thru the body and blood of Christ. As @Cassandra pointed out Jesus gave that bread and wine to the disciples before he made the atonement. How do you reason that out?

3. Your church statement of faith says:

Satan
"We believe in a spiritual entity that exists to draw human beings away from any development into Christ. We hold that Satan is a creation of God intended to purify the elect and to prune those from the Church who are not truly committed to it by faith. Anyone not in a league with Christ necessarily remains in a league with Satan."

So you think Satan holds an important purpose in the purification of the elect. I see that as a dangerous doctrine and I don't think Satan has the potential to do anything Good and it would be best if he was gone. People would be better off. He was kicked out of heaven with the Blood of Christ as the bible points out. He has no place there now and soon will have no place on earth. I think without Satan God could save us easier such that he makes God's job more difficult. He is an enemy to God and serves only evil. So then your purification of the elect is done by evil?

4. Your church statement of faith says:

Hell
"We believe hell is a place of spiritual agony where souls are kept for the pleasure of God. We believe anyone not transforming into Christ at the time of death will go to hell."

So you're church believes that God gets pleasure from sending people to hell? I kinda see that as anti-God and anti-Love of God. Perhaps your god is more evil than good. How do you work that out?
@devin553344 He is deluded. He founded this ridiculous 'religion' which only has six members, two of whom are high priests trained in his seminary. I just pray that this evil movement will not grow by attracting susceptible people to it like the Peoples Temple founded in 1956 by Jim Jones. Some people will accept anything. But we are told to test the spirit and this guy fails the test.
 
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dev553344

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@devin553344 He is deluded. He founded this ridiculous 'religion' which only has six members, two of whom are high priests trained in his seminary. I just pray that this evil movement will not grow by attracting susceptible people to it like the Peoples Temple founded in 1956 by Jim Jones. Some people will accept anything. But we are told to test the spirit and this guy fails the test.
Yes when I was Mormon for 10 years the Holy Spirit always questioned me as to whether they were teaching me the truth. So I never accepted a lot of their teachings but held onto the portions that the Holy Spirit said were true. Like worshiping Jesus Christ instead of proclaiming Joseph Smith, not believing I would become a god, but instead like the Angels, etc. The Holy Ghost won't steer us wrong and we know about him much thru Galatians 5:22-25.
 
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Cassandra

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I was raised LDS, and baptized at 10 (didn't know what they believed) when I was older, I found about the marriage for time and eternity. After I asked if they were saying God had a wife, and they sad "Where do you think all those spirit babies come from" I kicked them out.
Blasphemy, and pride. Why would you ever want to become a god?
 
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Cassandra

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From post 351
Edward Gordon said
If someone is not Christ, then they are just another human being. And that's a fact. God kills human beings the same way he kills insects and squirrels

I think this is one of the saddest things I ever read. He called Jesus an elitist too.
This Christ he worships is not the Christ the Bible speaks of.
 
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