I'm a non-Christian, where can I post?

[Brakelite]

I don't think he died for everyone. Or do you believe everyone goes to heaven?

You have thrown out the entire old testament of scripture, and much of the new, so I'm not going to bother explaining my premise...there is a thread elsewhere discussing it. Thing is this. You have thrown aside that which Jesus Himself said was the authority and foundation of His ministry, that which verified and validated His mission and life.
"And starting with Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them all the scriptures the things concerning Himself." You discard so much truth and "think" Christ didn't die for the whole world? How can you think anything when you reject everything? Everyone goes to heaven? No. Again, the OT would have revealed to you the truth of even this if you would accept it.

Do I really strike you as someone who doesn't know the Bible?

In light of the above, yes.

 

[Edward Gordon]

Edward, you honestly think to redeem the Christian use of the Pentagram when you are practicing witchcraft yourself, and it is today almost universally understood to be a symbol associated with its use?

From the Wiki:
Éliphas Lévi (a sorcerer) claimed that "The Pentagram expresses the mind's domination over the elements and it is by this sign that we bind the demons of the air, the spirits of fire, the spectres of water, and the ghosts of earth." In this spirit, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn developed the use of the pentagram in the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram, which is still used to this day by those who practice Golden Dawn-type magic. Aleister Crowley (the premier Satanist of the 20th century, and its most powerful sorcerer) made use of the pentagram in his Thelemic system of magick: an adverse or inverted pentagram represents the descent of spirit into matter, according to the interpretation of Lon Milo DuQuette. Crowley contradicted his old comrades in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, who, following Levi, considered this orientation of the symbol evil and associated it with the triumph of matter over spirit.

This conversation needs to end.

This is it. This is our entire motivation. If you don't like it, don't join the church.

The Veridican Church uses an upright pentagram as its symbol instead of a cross for the following reasons:

1. The pentagram star was an early Christian symbol representing the five wounds of Christ.

2. The magical connotations associated with it remind us that we are of the spirit of the Magi who were first to find the Christ born into the world.

3. It represents the Star of Bethlehem which symbolizes following the signs God gives us to find Christ.

4. Our church uses Veridican astrology to understand messages from God, and the star symbolizes that practice.

5. The cross is used by traditional Christian churches and focuses on the death of Christ. We focus our spirituality on following the life of Christ both when he was in the world and as he lives today. So, again, like the Star of Bethlehem, we follow that star.

6. Veridicanism is the true faith in Christ, thus we don’t want to be associated with the traditional Christian Church or its offshoots.

 

[Edward Gordon]

You have thrown out the entire old testament of scripture, and much of the new, so I'm not going to bother explaining my premise...there is a thread elsewhere discussing it. Thing is this. You have thrown aside that which Jesus Himself said was the authority and foundation of His ministry, that which verified and validated His mission and life.

I wouldn't say we "throw it out." We use it for historical context and wisdom. But you're right, it was primarily for Jesus. He found Himself in those scriptures. But now, it's Him. We follow his life and teachings.

"And starting with Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them all the scriptures the things concerning Himself." You discard so much truth and "think" Christ didn't die for the whole world? How can you think anything when you reject everything? Everyone goes to heaven? No. Again, the OT would have revealed to you the truth of even this if you would accept it.

In light of the above, yes.

And if you followed the teachings of Jesus Christ and didn't dilute them with the scriptures of a religion that isn't even yours, you would know that he didn't die for everyone. He died for the elect. He died for the chosen. You do know that the theories of atonement and salvation are not settled issues in the Christian religion, don't you? No two Christians can come to an agreement. No one actually knows why Jesus had to die on the cross. There are conflicting theories. No one really knows what it takes to be saved--the NT is full of different approaches.

In Veridicanism, it's very simple. You participate in the Ritual of the Veridican Eucharist. All atonement and salvation are accomplished with that ritual.

In fact, even in its infancy, it is more solid than Christianity. There are no denominations of it. I don't think it's even possible to make a separate denomination of it. It is the true religion--it has to be. It's the only one that follows ONLY Jesus Christ and he is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. So, it's not an emotional statement of faith to say it is the one true religion, it logically has to be, and it's the only one in the world like it. So, ipso facto, it's the only true religion.

 

[APAK]

That’s not the Star of David?

Actually WOH, the Star of David is not representative of the Star of the Magi, of Bethlehem, or the representation of Christs wounds etc. It is of a quite different origin.

Besides, there is no true Star of David as depicted on the political flag of the State of Israel. In Hebrew, it is called the 'Magen David.' David had a shield and possibly(??) he had this star feature on its surface. There is no substantial evidence to support this claim however.

There are generally two schools of thought concerning its use. One that it is purely a Jewish religious and benign symbol of their representation to God, in general. And the other is purely satanic and its use in sorcery to conjure up a particular evil spirit or demon.

There has been much controversy surrounding this symbol especially since the late 19th century and then again when it was chosen and imprinted on the Israeli flag.

Even the Masons would side with the latter thought. They openly admit the symbol is used in magic, witchcraft, sorcery and occultism.

 

[Cassandra]

@Edward Gordon

How are you getting all these very unusual smiley/emojees as a very new member here? Am I the only one who doesn't have access to those or is something fishy going on with Mr. Heaven's Gate?

He is an Admin of the forum his church has. Usually forums come with smileys, both still and animated. He probably just downloads,copies, or saves them to his computer and then puts the image here.

I right clicked on this one, and used "copy image", brought it here and pasted

 

[Heart2Soul]

Very funny. The Pentagram is the symbol of Satan. Has been for a long time.

Which got its start in Western cultures....mainly from the Wiccans....
But IMHO....any symbol can have a meaning applied to it...for me it is a simple geometric design...I don't associate it with satan...there are people who get tattoos with the pentagram as a way of acknowledging their "satanic belief" but not all cultures recognize it as such.
Same with the hexagram...and the reason the design was used was to represent their belief.
But there are many cultures who use the hexagram and they have different meanings for it than the Jewish people....here is a bit of interesting info presented...
The Story of the Star of David

 

[Heart2Soul]

@Edward Gordon ...I went and read your statement of faith regarding your church....not much different than the Christian statement of faith.
What I would like to challenge is your statement of being the true church of Jesus Christ...and you call your church the Veridican Church...
I have stated before that the true church of God will be as it was first established in scripture...Ephesians 4....
There are over 45k Christian denominations in the world...all claiming to be of Christian faith, teaching from the KJV, and declaring their doctrine to be the true doctrine of Christ....you included...so what makes you so much more truer than the other 45K claiming the same as you do?
IMHO...the biggest divider of God's people is religious doctrines....
You got the Baptist all huddled together on Sunday practicing their Baptist beliefs, the Methodist..Pentecosts...Catholics...etc...doing the same...and all of them look at the other with a spirit of self-righteousness at the other churches judging them for their ignorance and unbelief of the truth.
The Bible has so many interpretations that it is only by the Holy Spirit that we can truly understand it.
Amen?

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen - He has already admitted that he is involved with tarot card readings and cant see anything wrong with this. I had a feeling from his early post that he was tide into spiritualism in some way.

Whiles he is allowed to be here he will succeed in deceiving many.

Thank you my friend and thanks to all for all who warned against such a man .
This is very dangerous . I just wanted to thank Hidden in Him and Enoch , pearl and some others who helped .

 

[APAK]

A note of some concern.

There are some here that are losing sight of their cause for Christ and are ready to stone a man that as of yet has done nothing wrong. He is an open book to me...

@Heart2Soul I'm gladdened by some of your words to @Edward Gordon and in some of the associated subject matter you replied to, that you are one of the few here that consider him a genuine and open person, worthy of edification and love as we have in Christ. I truly believe he has genuine love for me as I do for him as part of the same family in the Body of Christ. I truly believe he deserves better reviews! He has not changed my faith nor shall he if his doctrine and beliefs drastically differ, and they don't in the least, thus far. I've seen some really wild teachings on this site before and they are still treated as Christians of the fold. What has he presented here that is violently offensive?

 

[Heart2Soul]

A note of some concern.

There are some here that are losing sight of their cause for Christ and are ready to stone a man that as of yet has done nothing wrong. He is an open book to me...

@Heart2Soul I'm gladdened by some of your words to @Edward Gordon and in some of the associated subject matter you replied to, that you are one of the few here that consider him a genuine and open person, worthy of edification and love as we have in Christ. I truly believe he has genuine love for me as I do for him as part of the same family in the Body of Christ. I truly believe he deserves better reviews! He has not changed my faith nor shall he if his doctrine and beliefs drastically differ, and they don't in the least, thus far. I've seen some really wild teachings on this site before and they are still treated as Christians of the fold. What has he presented here that is violently offensive?

IMHO...
Violently offensive? I am not offended by his doctrine of faith...but intermingling witchcraft tools with being a follower of Jesus Only kind of puts doubt in someone's mind as to which messiah is he following...I was once into such things and it opened doors to all kinds of demons in my life....

His doctrine is somewhat different than the Christian doctrine...
I didn't know what a Veridican Church was about so I took the time to research before replying...I found his statement of faith is very similar to the Christian faith...He seems to be a trinitarian...which is different than your belief but that belief is not a "salvation" issue.
Anyway, I agree...we should do better at speaking in love...I have heard some of the best testimonials from people who were once atheists, Satanists, or agnostic....but when the Holy Spirit began to minister to their hearts their eyes were opened and their lives radically changed!.
I think I could use some more radical changing...

 

[Heart2Soul]

I wanted to present the pentagram use in other areas besides religion...

 

[Enoch111]

Which got its start in Western cultures....mainly from the Wiccans.... But IMHO....any symbol can have a meaning applied to it...for me it is a simple geometric design...

Sorry, but you are seriously misinformed. The Pentagram and Hexagram are part and parcel of occultic rituals -- black magic or witchcraft. And it is DEFINITELY NOT a simple geometric design.

The Pentacle and Magick
Renaissance-era ritual magicians, like the Greeks, used the Pentagram as a microcosm of the human body. The practice of Ritual Magic was used to create a state of closeness with god through the use of symbols and rituals to imitate the divine state. It was believed that like affects like, that the connection between the world of symbols and the world of actions could also be manipulated for evil purposes. One of these magicians, Giordano Bruno, warned of such misuse of the powerful pentacle by Black magicians. (The pentagram is still central to the practice of ritual magic, and is used in the foundation of many of its rituals.

The Pentacle in Wicca and other NeoPagan Traditions
Currently, the most common religious uses of the pentagram are by Wiccan, Neopagan, and Satanic groups. In most Wiccan and Neopagan traditions, its symbolic meaning is derived from Ceremonial magick and nineteenth century occultism- the four elements ruled by the spirit- although as these theologies mature, they have added to its meaning.

The Pentagram in Depth

 

[Enoch111]

I wanted to present the pentagram use in other areas besides religion...

That is simply a star, and you should know better. I am simply shocked that you are actually trying to defend a Satanic symbol!

 

[Heart2Soul]

That is simply a star, and you should know better. I am simply shocked that you are actually trying to defend a Satanic symbol!

Oh now come on...a 5 point star is a 5 point star....
32 star logos that shine bright - 99designs

 

[Brakelite]

He found Himself in those scriptures. But now, it's Him. We follow his life and teachings.

I agree with the first part... Through studying scriptures from a child, His Father revealed to Him Who He was. Jesus did indeed discover Himself and His identity through the OT. But you are missing the fact that after His resurrection, He demonstrated the model by which we are to discover Him... Through Moses and prophets. He was standing right there in front of them, the 2 disciples as the walked to Emmaus, Jesus could have done any number of things to prove to them He was alive and still the Messiah. He could have flown. He could have worked all manner of miracles... He could have caused them to fly. And yep, they would have believed Him. And the result of that would have that the church would have used that as an example of how to identify truth. Miracles.
"How do you know that it is Jesus you follow and that He has saved you"?
The standard answer would have been, "Because I can fly. Or I can walk on water. Or I can heal people from cancer etc etc etc".
But when Satan challenged Jesus as to His identity, what did Jesus do? Change the stones to bread? Jump off the roof of the temple? No. He went to scripture...specifically Deuteronomy. He's our example. We know who Jesus is solely because of scripture. We don't live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

you would know that he didn't die for everyone.

KJV John 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Sorry, but you are seriously misinformed. The Pentagram and Hexagram are part and parcel of occultic rituals -- black magic or witchcraft. And it is DEFINITELY NOT a simple geometric design.

The Pentacle and Magick
Renaissance-era ritual magicians, like the Greeks, used the Pentagram as a microcosm of the human body. The practice of Ritual Magic was used to create a state of closeness with god through the use of symbols and rituals to imitate the divine state. It was believed that like affects like, that the connection between the world of symbols and the world of actions could also be manipulated for evil purposes. One of these magicians, Giordano Bruno, warned of such misuse of the powerful pentacle by Black magicians. (The pentagram is still central to the practice of ritual magic, and is used in the foundation of many of its rituals.

The Pentacle in Wicca and other NeoPagan Traditions
Currently, the most common religious uses of the pentagram are by Wiccan, Neopagan, and Satanic groups. In most Wiccan and Neopagan traditions, its symbolic meaning is derived from Ceremonial magick and nineteenth century occultism- the four elements ruled by the spirit- although as these theologies mature, they have added to its meaning.

The Pentagram in Depth

Yes that is a pentagram with an image in it...I didn't say it isn't a symbol of satanism for some....I said it has different meanings to different cultures....

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sorry, but you are seriously misinformed. The Pentagram and Hexagram are part and parcel of occultic rituals -- black magic or witchcraft. And it is DEFINITELY NOT a simple geometric design.

The Pentacle and Magick
Renaissance-era ritual magicians, like the Greeks, used the Pentagram as a microcosm of the human body. The practice of Ritual Magic was used to create a state of closeness with god through the use of symbols and rituals to imitate the divine state. It was believed that like affects like, that the connection between the world of symbols and the world of actions could also be manipulated for evil purposes. One of these magicians, Giordano Bruno, warned of such misuse of the powerful pentacle by Black magicians. (The pentagram is still central to the practice of ritual magic, and is used in the foundation of many of its rituals.

The Pentacle in Wicca and other NeoPagan Traditions
Currently, the most common religious uses of the pentagram are by Wiccan, Neopagan, and Satanic groups. In most Wiccan and Neopagan traditions, its symbolic meaning is derived from Ceremonial magick and nineteenth century occultism- the four elements ruled by the spirit- although as these theologies mature, they have added to its meaning.

The Pentagram in Depth

Enoch, while there are things I'm sure we still disagree on, it's been awhile since I said this but I need to say it again: I am always thankful you are a member here, because despite having friends here who might be unorthodox, sometimes unorthodoxy and free thinking can run completely amok, and it astonishes me as well that a man can publicly state he practices witchcraft and uses a Pentagram as his logo, and yet it seems not to sink in with some the implications, and the potential gravity of the situation here.

I don't want to say anymore because I don't want to offend anyone, but don't leave this place. We need as many sound-minded people theologically as we can get, especially if this sort of thing is going to become the norm around here.

Take it to heart,
Hidden In Him

 

[Heart2Soul]

That is simply a star, and you should know better. I am simply shocked that you are actually trying to defend a Satanic symbol!

I didn't defend it...I said I don't believe in symbols having meaning...because anyone can pick a design and incorporate it into a "logo" to put on their items of choice.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Enoch, while there are things I'm sure we still disagree on, it's been awhile since I said this but I need to say it again: I am always thankful you are a member here, because despite having friends here who might be unorthodox, sometimes unorthodoxy and free thinking can run completely amok, and it astonishes me as well that a man can publicly state he practices witchcraft and uses a Pentagram as his logo, and yet it seems not to sink in with some the implications, and the potential gravity of the situation here.

I don't want to say anymore because I don't want to offend anyone, but don't leave this place. We need as many sound-minded people theologically as we can get, especially if this sort of thing is going to become the norm around here.

Take it to heart,
Hidden In Him

There is NO POWER in a symbol...is there? Perhaps to a weak mind it can bring fear or intimidation.
But the image itself can only be an image....now what mankind does with it is another story....but it's all created by man's mind.
So don't misjudge me....in fact don't judge me just because I am not of the same mindset as you....
I am still very much in love with my Jesus, my Lord and Savior....I stand on the Word of God firmly...and I don't speak against scripture.
I am simply discussing with everyone what I think about it and what I think about the hexagram on the Israel flag...and it's reference to the Star of David....and why did they pick that as the image they want the world to see.

 

[APAK]

@Edward Gordon: you queried Christadelphians. Might as well lump the Biblical Unitarians in the mix as they are nearly the same.
Each have about 50k known members around the globe.

Now I do not participate in any way, singularly or collectively, in any formal or informal setting with either of these sects. I just like a few of their beliefs, where over 99 percent of so-called Christendom loathe.
I am in the 0.5 percent group...

1. They are fiercely Anti-Trinitarian.
2. The have no formal or informal hierarchy. They meet by chance or if one knows of a another member close by, from list they maintain. And the setting is usually in someone's home. Never been inclined to meet yet.
3. They believe Christ was created as a human male by the Spirit of God. No pre-existent active life.
4. They are well-versed in scripture. They love it and so do I.

Now apart from these areas there are some major areas I do not agree with them on.

1. They believe as many MS churches that there are genuine Jews who still have a special route to salvation, or will have a special time frame to become saved in the future. I do not...I can elaborate of this at a later date.
2. They believe as many MS churches that when Christ returns there will be an earthly Kingdom. I believe I'm in the Kingdom today and Christ rules today. There will be no 2nd chance to become saved! Folks get hung up on the physical and literal and what justice means to man and not God's view of it, who created it. When Christ returns he will come in from another dimension not wielding a physical sword ready for blood justice. By that time Judgement is already set and completed by what is established and has grown into the hearts or spirits of men - of Christ or self. He will leave the same way from the symbolic mount of Olives, back into the dimension he lives in, and I will go with him, and others, into the New Jerusalem, the city of everlasting light and life.
3. They believe that actual water immersion is key to salvation. I do not.
4. They believe one is never assured of salvation. I disagree.

-------------------And are you psychic or what? --------------
Yes, I have Anglo-Kiwi connections, a part of the Commonwealth and with both a formal and informal educational background