The Ones Who Are Left…

[Earburner]

Come on....NOT individual mortal men living a thousand years!
Jesus Present, Saints Presence, Mortal Men Presence, (generationally living, dying) occupy the earth for a literal thousand years. (Void of Satan’s presence)

Impossible!! Right now, since Pentecost, is the ONLY period for The Age of His Grace. You are not comprehending kJV 2 Peter 3:5-10

 

[Curtis]

You have made a very good presentation of the quagmire that "church-ianity" is in, which of course is not the situation that Christianity is in, as is described by the Holy Spirit's deliverance of God's truth to us.
In KJV 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, I suggest to all, that we should pay particular attention to the word "when", and how it is used in reference, meaning that it is a simultanious event:

[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

To back that up, the words of Christ says this: KJV Luke 17[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

"There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner

Re- read the text you posted, because the answer is right there. The dead AND living in Christ are caught up in the SAME event:

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Curtis]

Impossible!! Right now, since Pentecost, is the ONLY period for The Age of His Grace. You are not comprehending kJV 2 Peter 3:5-10

Yes, mortal men will live during the thousand years, but scripture doesn’t say they’ll live a thousand years - however Adam lived 900 years and methuselah close to a thousand years.

 

[Earburner]

Yes, mortal men will live during the thousand years, but scripture doesn’t say they’ll live a thousand years - however Adam lived 900 years and methuselah close to a thousand years.

You missed my concept! I oppose the Jewish dream of a millennial reign of Christ on earth AFTER that of OUR bodily resurrection.
Of course, your oversight can't be helped by you, because "church-ianity" has persuaded and flooded your mind, and that of many others, to go along with their thinking!

 

[Earburner]

^ I repeat my quote of
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10:
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints,...
Now I ask: what shall happen "when" that Day comes, and what shall also happen "when" that Day comes?

Now, when that Day comes, concerning BOTH simultaneous events,
who will be left alive on this earth?

Answer: No one!

 

[Naomi25]

What I meant is, the event in first Thessalonians 4, is that both the dead in Christ and the living Christians are caught up at the same time as part of the same event.

The gathering of the tares in Matthew 13 isn’t part of the 1 Thessalonians 4 rapture.

And it does say the tares are removed first, in Matthew 13.

Do you see a gap between the tares being removed in Matt 13 and when the wheat is then gathered? And, if you don’t mind me asking, why is either gathering (wheat or tares) significantly removed in time from a ‘Rapture’ when these 2 classes of people, righteous and unrighteous, are said to grow together throw ‘this age’? Not ‘through the tribulation period’, but ‘this age’.

 

[Naomi25]

You have made a very good presentation of the quagmire that "church-ianity" is in, which of course is not the situation that Christianity is in, as is described by the Holy Spirit's deliverance of God's truth to us.
In KJV 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, I suggest to all, that we should pay particular attention to the word "when", and how it is used in reference, meaning that it is a simultanious event:

[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

To back that up, the words of Christ says this: KJV Luke 17[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

"There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner

I do sometimes wonder if, when Christ returns and all truth is revealed, we’ll have the capacity to be interested in it, or if we’ll simply be too consumed with joy and in moving forward.
But yes, everyone is so convinced they have THE truth…and while I agree that there can be only one truth, revealed to us in scripture, there are so many differing variations that who can truly know? Or at least, it feels that way. I think all we can do is arrive at our own conclusions based upon prayer and study, but be open to the fact that we are not perfect in our understandings and tat the Spirit may have more to show us.

 

[Naomi25]

Disagree.
Men living 1,000 years is literal, less the TRUTH who is Jesus Lied? God forbid.

When Jesus told his disciples that they must forgive a person 70x7 times, what did he mean?

When Peter tells us that for God, a day is like a 1000 years and a 1000 years is as a day, what did he mean?

 

[Earburner]

When Jesus told his disciples that they must forgive a person 70x7 times, what did he mean?

When Peter tells us that for God, a day is like a 1000 years and a 1000 years is as a day, what did he mean?

70x7 points to the prohetic 70 weeks of years ( 490 years) in Daniel 9:24, which is about the six works of God that Jesus was to complete and "finish".
Verses 25-27 is about the manifestation of the players and the details involved.
With the new covenant confirmed by Jesus' Sacrifice of Himself, it brought (caused) the end to the Temple services and animal sacrifices, and therefore no further need for it ever again. It's destruction by the Roman Titus in 70AD finally ended it.

 

[Earburner]

I do sometimes wonder if, when Christ returns and all truth is revealed, we’ll have the capacity to be interested in it, or if we’ll simply be too consumed with joy and in moving forward.
But yes, everyone is so convinced they have THE truth…and while I agree that there can be only one truth, revealed to us in scripture, there are so many differing variations that who can truly know? Or at least, it feels that way. I think all we can do is arrive at our own conclusions based upon prayer and study, but be open to the fact that we are not perfect in our understandings and tat the Spirit may have more to show us.

What did Jesus, who is the Truth say?
KJV Luke 17[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven**, and destroyed them all.
How many were destroyed?
Ans. ALL!!

**Now compare to 2 Thes. 1:8 .
"...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
How many will be destroyed?
Ans. ALL!!

 

[Earburner]

^ WHY will they ALL be destroyed by His vengeance in flaming fire?
Ans. [They did not] know God, and [did not] obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Earburner]

Its all very simple, that is if you don't let the "tares" of "church--anity" mess your head up! Run to John 16:13 and stay there!
Let Him be your "guide" ONLY.

Yes, the "tares" are right there in church with us, side by side, with MANY in the pulpits!
You don't think so?
Then listen to this, and let His Holy Spirit discern it for you:
Luke 21[8] And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Now think on this-
For someone to come in the name of Christ, is saying that they themselves are NOT the Christ, but are pointing to Christ, saying that He is the Christ.
And there are many who do so, decieving MANY!

Let me ask this:
How many false Christ's do you know of? Most likely only a few, being not many!

So then who are these many, that Jesus is talking about?
Ans. The many Tares who are behind the pulpits and those in the pews of "church-ianity". They will be sure to defend their "brand name" of faith, and usually always speak of their Religion! All in the name of Christ!

 

[Naomi25]

70x7 points to the prohetic 70 weeks of years ( 490 years) in Daniel 9:24, which is about the six works of God that Jesus was to complete and "finish".
Verses 25-27 is about the manifestation of the players and the details involved.
With the new covenant confirmed by Jesus' Sacrifice of Himself, it brought (caused) the end to the Temple services and animal sacrifices, and therefore no further need for it ever again. It's destruction by the Roman Titus in 70AD finally ended it.

Ah. No.

Matthew 18:21-22, 35
Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times….
So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

This is not a prophetic passage. And I wonder at trying to find something greater in it.
Christ is saying that as Christians, we have been forgiven to a degree beyond what we deserve. Grace abounding. And as such, we do not forgive others only 7 times. We forgive as Christ forgives…grace abounding….
Saying ‘not 7, but 70x7’ is a way of saying, ‘just keep on forgiving them, as I keep forgiving you’.

 

[Waiting on him]

70x7 points to the prohetic 70 weeks of years ( 490 years) in Daniel 9:24, which is about the six works of God that Jesus was to complete and "finish".
Verses 25-27 is about the manifestation of the players and the details involved.
With the new covenant confirmed by Jesus' Sacrifice of Himself, it brought (caused) the end to the Temple services and animal sacrifices, and therefore no further need for it ever again. It's destruction by the Roman Titus in 70AD finally ended it.

Precisely 490 years from the decree.

 

[Waiting on him]

Ah. No.

Matthew 18:21-22, 35
Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times….
So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

This is not a prophetic passage. And I wonder at trying to find something greater in it.
Christ is saying that as Christians, we have been forgiven to a degree beyond what we deserve. Grace abounding. And as such, we do not forgive others only 7 times. We forgive as Christ forgives…grace abounding….
Saying ‘not 7, but 70x7’ is a way of saying, ‘just keep on forgiving them, as I keep forgiving you’.

Why do you believe Jesus stoped to say this?


Luke 23:28 KJV
[28] But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

 

[Naomi25]

What did Jesus, who is the Truth say?
KJV Luke 17[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven**, and destroyed them all.
How many were destroyed?
Ans. ALL!!

**Now compare to 2 Thes. 1:8 .
"...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
How many will be destroyed?
Ans. ALL!!

Ah. I must, with respect, disagree.
Not “all” were destroyed at Sodom and Gomorrah…Lot and his family were spared. And again, in the 2 Thess passage, it says that Jesus will take vengeance “on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel”….which implies, does it not, that those who DO know God, and DO obey the gospel, will be spared.
So…not “all”
If you are objecting to what I said about people having ‘different opinions’ on certain issues, I think there are certain topics or doctrines within Orthodox Christianity that are of Primary concern. These are not open for debate, and indeed, scripture is clear enough that there need be no real debate. These are matters of salvation; the Trinity, the Hypostatic union, etc
On Secondary issues, however, scripture is less clear, and in these matters we ought to be open to conversation and even differences without it affecting how we judge someone’s salvation. These are things like eschatology, ecclesiastical polity, etc.

 

[Naomi25]

Why do you believe Jesus stoped to say this?


Luke 23:28 KJV
[28] But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

You know…you’ve asked me before, somewhat out of the blue, what I think about a verse, and it got me stuck in the middle of an argument I didn’t know was going on.
Before I answer, can I ask why you want to know and why you would like my opinion?

 

[Earburner]

Ah. No.

Matthew 18:21-22, 35
Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times….
So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

This is not a prophetic passage. And I wonder at trying to find something greater in it.
Christ is saying that as Christians, we have been forgiven to a degree beyond what we deserve. Grace abounding. And as such, we do not forgive others only 7 times. We forgive as Christ forgives…grace abounding….
Saying ‘not 7, but 70x7’ is a way of saying, ‘just keep on forgiving them, as I keep forgiving you’.

Ah... NO again! It truly is a prophetic message. It points to what I had said it pointed to, the 70 weeks of Daniel.
See KJV Matthew 18[22] Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy [70] times [X] seven [7].

 

[Waiting on him]

Ah... NO again! It truly is a prophetic message. It points to what I had said it pointed to, the 70 weeks of Daniel.
See KJV Matthew 18[22] Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy [70] times [X] seven [7].

What happens at the 491 offense?

 

[Waiting on him]

You know…you’ve asked me before, somewhat out of the blue, what I think about a verse, and it got me stuck in the middle of an argument I didn’t know was going on.
Before I answer, can I ask why you want to know and why you would like my opinion?

I like your cat.