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Christ4Me

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All dealt with previously by myself and others. What you haven't dealt with is a holy day that you are right at this minute, ignoring. What are you going to do about it? Continue to deny it's existence, or deal with it?

If I acknowledge that I am profaning the sabbath how is that not the same as I am acknowledging it as a holy day that I am profaning?

But I also acknowledge how I am guiltless for profaning the sabbath because Jesus is in me & is with me always.

Tell me that Jesus in us and is with us always does not make us guiltless when it is His righteousness apart from the law that brings us Home.
 

BarneyFife

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If you want to claim that not doing certain things is kind and thoughtful and considerate of others, well, we're supposed to do that every day, not just one day of the week.
I find a few problems with this.

First, the idea that the Sabbath is just a day to avoid doing certain things. Jesus said that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. He also had a custom of attending Synagogue on the Sabbath. And healing people of their diseases and infirmities.

Second, the commonly held belief that all God requires of us is to love one another is problematic. I can't tell whether you're suggesting that belief or not. It doesn't seem like you. I have a faint recollection of you railing against that in one of the HyperGrace threads. But the greatest commandment, according to Jesus, is to love God with all our heart. The Sabbath is a wonderful opportunity to do some of that.

Third (and I'm not sure how to say this without sounding sarcastic),
I didn't limit the 4th commandment to one day per week--God did.

And finally, I do see the Sabbath and its associated group activities as being beneficial to all involved (others). When I was working as a machinist all week long with people who blasphemed God and were absorbed in worldly interests, while I loved them as candidates for Heaven, I looked forward to fellowshipping with like-minded people who desired to worship God together. I could write a book about this.

From the OP:
The Sabbath isn’t intended as a day of idleness. God rested on the seventh day in order to spend time with His creation—with us. That is why we attend church on that day, a day of “holy convocation” (Leviticus 23:3) in which we have the privilege of worshiping and learning more about God. The Sabbath is our opportunity to reaffirm that it is God “who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them” (Acts 4:24).

The Sabbath is also a remembrance of God’s saving us by coming to die on the cross for our sins: “Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them” (Ezekiel 20:12). We are sanctified not on our own merits, but rather through Christ’s righteousness when we receive Him as Savior and Lord. What a beautiful day, expressly given to us that we, by our worship and study, may give thanks to the One to whom we owe our very lives, both at creation and at the cross!

The Sabbath is also a special time where we can glorify God through service to others, as Jesus Himself demonstrated while on this earth: “It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath” (Matthew 12:12). It is particularly in these times of giving to others that we may remember all that God has given to us.

____________________________________________________________

Which takes us back to what I was originally saying - literal sabbath rest is illustrative of the spiritual reality of rest from your work of sinning.
I don't find this illustration taught in the Bible at all. In fact, the literal Sabbath is actually illustrative of ceasing to amass good works in an attempt to qualify for Heaven.
When God rested from his work of salvation on the cross that was our cue to rest from our own work - our sinful work of the flesh.
If you're talking about the good works (which are tainted with selfishness) we do to try to gain favor with God, I agree!
But I showed you a verse that says that.
There are others.
I must have missed that one. :D
 

Brakelite

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If I acknowledge that I am profaning the sabbath
Your confession and honesty is appreciated I'm sure, but I think somewhat misguided. You are owning up to profaning the Sabbath in the same context, on your own admission, as the disciples were found guiltless when picking fruit for breakfast. Is that what you are doing? You really think God condemned people in the OT for rubbing a few grains of corn together to munch on, or plucking a fig from a tree, or a grape from the vine on Sabbath? Where in the OT did God forbid anyone from such things? Where, how, or why, would such a casual activity be classified as labor?
But let us hypothesize for a moment, and accept that
believers are guiltless for profaning the sabbath because they are saved since they had come to & believed in Jesus Christ.
Does this apply to the 7th commandment? Would your wife agree to a threesome with an LGBTQ non binary skinhead because you are both "saved"and Jesus is with you?
 

Ferris Bueller

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Well. We tend to say Jesus is our rest so we don't need the Sabbath.
Jesus is our rest so that we don't have to seek the rest provided by the commandment. There is no penalty of death for not entering into the sabbath rest of Moses. That's because we have entered into rest in Jesus.

I think people believed that in the Biblical period, too, because the Bible already addressed that exact understanding.

Hebrews 4:8-9

" For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."
I think he's referring to Joshua and when the people refused to enter into the Land after the twelve spied it out, not Joshua/Jesus the Christ.

So, here we have the author of Hebrews speaking to Jews, dwelling in the Land of rest, telling them that the promise of entering into God's rest still stands. So he's talking about the spiritual reality, not the outward illustration. For just as the people of God were disobedient and refused to enter into Joshua's rest, so it is that the people of God were disobedient and refused to enter into Jesus' rest. But those who do believe/obey, they do enter into that rest - rest from the taskmaster of sin. And that invitation to enter into Jesus' rest remains and some will enter into it.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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What Sabbath required not speaking idle words? He's obviously pointing to keeping the true sabbath rest - the one that counts - the sabbath rest from sin. Just as he has been talking about true fasting - the fasting that counts - fasting from sin.

With that established, we can see how sabbath keeping and circumcision are related. Respectively, they represent the spiritual reality of resting from your labor of sin, and putting off your sins of the flesh. Just as fasting represents the spiritual reality of fasting from sin.

You have yet to learn that "the day The Seventh-Day-Sabbath-of-the-LORD-GOD" is not: 1. What Sabbath required; is not: 2. not speaking idle words; is not; 3. pointing to keeping the true sabbath rest; is not: 4. the sabbath rest from sin; is not: 5. true fasting; is not: 6. fasting from sin; is not: 8. how sabbath keeping and circumcision are related; is not: 9. the spiritual reality of resting from your labor of sin; is not: putting off your sins of the flesh; is not: 10. the spiritual reality of fasting from sin.
"The Sabbath" is: 1. "the day which is after the Preparation"; is: 2. "day toward before the First Day of the week"; is: 3. "the Seventh Day GOD thus concerning did speak: And GOD the day The Seventh Day from all, HIS, WORKS, did rest"; is: 4. "not another day"; is: 5. "Sabbath-Day-remaining-for-the-People-of-God-to-remember"; is: 6. "Sabbath-Feast-of-Christ"; is: 7. "the-to-hear-the-Word-of-God-Sabbath-Day".
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Signs are generally more concrete: Rainbow; circumcision; baptism; Lord's Supper. :)
These are pretty concrete:

"...love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

There are signs that count, and there are signs that don't count. These are signs that count. These are signs that signify you are indeed in covenant with God. They actually mean something. But anyone can be circumcised. Anyone can keep a sabbath day. They signify nothing. They have their value, but not toward making you right with God, or showing you to be right with God.
 

BarneyFife

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Don't you realize that what you're actually doing is putting it BEFORE His moral code for humanity?
Yes, it was called "Sabbatholatry" by another poster. I get that a lot. But I honestly don't think I give the Sabbath any more weight than, say, not murdering people.
These are pretty concrete:

"...love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23
Would you find the fruit of the Spirit "concrete" in the same way that you would a rainbow, a circumcision, a baptism, or a communion service?
There are signs that count, and there are signs that don't count.
Does God devise signs that don't count (whatever that means)?
These are signs that signify you are indeed in covenant with God. They actually mean something.
Actually, they're signs that demonstrate that someone is in a saving relationship with God. I'm not talking about demonstrative signs (though I respect that you are). I'm talking about signs that signify, represent, or symbolize. Like rainbows, baptisms, or Sabbath observance, none of which in and of themselves, demonstrate that a person is in a saving relationship with God. They simply signify. It's not that they don't count. They're different. I'm not sure why we're having so much trouble with defining terms, I must admit.

God says:
“Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them” (Ezekiel 20:12).
...so I'm not sure why we're claiming that the Sabbath is a sign that doesn't count.

He literally calls it a sign.

Can there be any doubt that God sanctifies believers today? Has he given any instruction that His sign of sanctification has been replaced or doesn't count?
But anyone can be circumcised. Anyone can keep a sabbath day. They signify nothing.
..except whatever God says they mean.
They have their value, but not toward making you right with God, or showing you to be right with God.
They are outward symbols of an inward condition. Not demonstrative proof.
 
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Desire Of All Nations

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There's nothing moral about keeping a Sabbath.
This is just an outright ignorant statement to make. The fact that the Sabbath is the last of the 4 commandments that determine how God is supposed to be loved and worshiped is what makes it a moral commandment. The fact that few people even keep this commandment only proves most professing Christians don't actually know Him, though they acknowledge His existence.

Knowing what God did in Gen. 1 and 2 isn't the same as personally knowing Him or even having a relationship with Him. Satan knows what God did, and none of that does him any good because he has no relationship with God. That's the whole point behind God going out of His way to identify the Sabbath command with the events of Gen. 1-2:3.

It literally makes no logical sense for you or anyone else to claim the Sabbath is only a representation of resting from sin while at the same time committing sin by trampling on the Sabbath. It is completely illogical, and it defeats the whole purpose behind resting from sin. This argument is tantamount to trying to wash a car with sewage.
Precious friends:

Should I "keep the sabbath"? Then, please, so I can correct my
misunderstanding, explain:

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made..." (Gal_3:19)

?
When it comes to Paul mentioning a "law", a person has to be extremely careful in how they read his statements. Sometimes Paul refers to the 10 commandments, a specific commandment in that set, a sacrificial ritual, a man made custom/edict, or the Law(aka Torah) as a whole. The context of the passage usually reveals which one of those things he was referring to.

In Gal. 3:19, the "law" Paul speaks of is concerning animal sacrifices. This law was given to remind people of their guilt and that they needed a Savior that could wipe their slate clean through faith in His sacrifice. That's why Paul called this "law" a tutor. Paul was able to go a lot more in depth about this teaching in his letter to the Hebrews.

As to whether or not you should keep the Sabbath, the answer is a definite "yes" if you desire to truly follow God.
First off, no commandment was made on that seventh day. It was just written that the Lord rested on that 7th day from creating the heavens and the earth in six days.
Your whole post here is full of lies, but i want to address this specific lie because it's the most important one that needs to be debunked. You say no commandment was made on the 7th day, but Gen. 2 says otherwise:

"Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." - Gen. 2:3

The very act of God setting the 7th day apart by blessing it, consecrating it, and stamping His presence on it by resting made it the Sabbath. The fact that God goes out of His way to mention this act in the codified version of the Sabbath command means this is when it was made. Jesus said the Sabbath was as old as the human race in Mar. 2:27, so there is no other event He could've been possibly been referring to.
The law given to Moses calls for the death penalty by stoning, for doing any work, such as gathering sticks, on the sabbath.

And requires death penalty by stoning for adultery, for not honoring your parents, for murder, and many other offenses.

If the sabbath command is still in effect, the penalty for breaking it would still in effect, and sabbath keepers are breaking the law by not killing the sabbath breakers.

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Ancient Israel was both a church and state under the Sinai Covenant, so they were given the task of carrying out death sentences when certain laws were violated. As Rom. 13 teaches, the responsibility for carrying out death sentences is a purely civil matter, not a Church matter.

Under the New Covenant, people who reject the Sabbath are to to be treated like an unbeliever until they repent. The death penalty that was attached to the Sabbath command is symbolic of the death penalty that Christ will carry out on everyone who refuses to keep it come Judgement Day.

God commanded OT Israel to administer the death penalty for violating certain commandments because most of them didn't have God's Spirit and couldn't understand the seriousness of sin. The death penalty was both a warning and a doctrinal tool. True Christians don't need such reminders because they know how serious an offense profaning the Sabbath is to God, and they know how He will eventually deal with such people Himself.

Anti-Sabbatarians fail to understand this for the same reason most of the ancient Israelites didn't: they don't have the Holy Spirit, they fail to comprehend the gravity of sin, and they think they have better standards of morality than God. In other words, their religion is completely fake.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Here you seem to be separating the commandments into two piles: Moral and observant.
Yes, because the Bible does.
Obedience is better than the sacrifice and service of your outward worship. Yes, I know, the big question is swirling around in your mind right now, "but isn't the sacrifice and service of your outward worship obedience, too?"

This will help you understand the point:

"26If a man who is not circumcised keeps the requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27The one who is physically uncircumcised yet keeps the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker."

Circumcision is a commanded 'obedience' of the law, so why isn't it included in 'keeps the requirements of the law'? Obviously, there is a distinction of laws here. It is on this understanding that I feel no compulsion to keep a literal sabbath as a requirement of law (like 'do not steal' is a requirement). There are laws that constitute the body of laws kept by the law keeper, and there are laws that are not a part of that body of laws, but are laws, nonetheless.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Yes, it was called "Sabbatholatry" by another poster. I get that a lot. But I honestly don't think I give the Sabbath any more weight than, say, not murdering people.
I pretty sure you started to go there in another post. And I expected that. I was waiting for you to flesh it out a little more. But if you don't think that, then I guess there's no reason to go there.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Would you find the fruit of the Spirit "concrete" in the same way that you would a rainbow, a circumcision, a baptism, or a communion service?
Absolutely, I would.
The point is, there are signs that mean something, and there are signs that don't mean anything and can signify nothing. Like I say, anyone can keep a literal sabbath. Anyone can get circumcised. Circumcision is indeed a sign, but not literal circumcision, but rather the mark in the flesh of the putting off of the deeds of the flesh. That sign means something. The literal outward sign means nothing, proves nothing.

Same with the sabbath. There is the literal sabbath that means nothing, proves nothing, insofar as it being a sign. But then there is the sign of the true sabbath, the rest from the deeds of the flesh that God provides. That does mean something and proves something. That is the real sabbath sign command of which the literal Mosaic command only pointed to.
 

BarneyFife

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When it comes to Paul mentioning a "law", a person has to be extremely careful in how they read his statements. Sometimes Paul refers to the 10 commandments, a specific commandment in that set, a sacrificial ritual, a man made custom, or the Law(aka Torah) as a whole. The context of the passage usually reveals which one of those things he was referring to.

The very act of God setting the 7th day apart by blessing it, consecrating it, and stamping His presence on it by resting made it the Sabbath. The fact that God goes out of His way to mention this act in the codified version of the Sabbath command means this is when it was made. Jesus said the Sabbath was as old as the human race in Mar. 2:27, so there is no other event He could've been possibly been referring to.

Ancient Israel was both a church and state under the Sinai Covenant, so they were given the task of carrying out death sentences when certain laws were violated. As Rom. 13 teaches, the responsibility for carrying out death sentences is a purely civil matter, not a Church matter.

God commanded OT Israel to administer the death penalty for violating certain commandments because most of them didn't have God's Spirit and couldn't understand the seriousness of sin. The death penalty was both a warning as well as a valuable tool for doctrine. True Christians don't need such reminders because they know how serious an offense profaning the Sabbath is to God, and they know how He'll eventually deal with such people Himself.

WINNER, WINNER, CHIK'N DINNER!!! :D:D:D;););):):):)
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Does God devise signs that don't count (whatever that means)?
Yes.
Paul said Abraham's circumcision was the sign of the righteousness that he had by faith while uncircumcised.
We know in Abraham's case it really did signify the presence of righteousness. But what about the countless other circumcised people of God for whom it's an absolutely false sign?

We now know this was all for the purpose of illustration. We understand the spiritual reality through what we can see and understand in the natural. That's what the sabbath observance is. It's an illustration of a far, far more important spiritual reality. The illustration leads us to it. And once we understand and enter into the reality, the shadow doesn't have to be performed anymore. We see this in all the other ceremonial laws. The shadow gets put aside in favor of the spiritual reality that cast that shadow.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Actually, they're signs that demonstrate that someone is in a saving relationship with God. I'm not talking about demonstrative signs (though I respect that you are). I'm talking about signs that signify, represent, or symbolize. Like rainbows, baptisms, or Sabbath observance, none of which in and of themselves, demonstrate that a person is in a saving relationship with God. They simply signify. It's not that they don't count. They're different. I'm not sure why we're having so much trouble with defining terms, I must admit.
What does keeping a literal sabbath prove?
It's useless to signify that you are really at rest in Jesus.
But the spiritual reality of the sabbath does signify that you really are at rest in Jesus. The cessation of your work of sin does indeed signify that you are in Christ, dead to sin.