I said arguments -try reading xRight with all the violence that was going on.
Probably should be closed for that reason alone.
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I said arguments -try reading xRight with all the violence that was going on.
Probably should be closed for that reason alone.
Just to make you aware that threads can be locked for many reasons, personally I was going to lock it this morning because there were too many posts to delete and the on going arguments we’re not really honouring to anyone. Thankfully it kind of got back on topic….so I will leave it open for the time being x
Rita
You write in presumption of a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scriptureAnd I disagree with your apparent sense that any opposition to Dispensationalism requires rejection of either a Millennium or an eventual restoration of Israel and other nations in the Millennium.
Right with all the violence that was going on.
Probably should be closed for that reason alone.
Stop the false claims, nobody is being violent, the topic is C.I. Scofield and AdulteryThat is a strawman fallacy and are your words not mine.
It's an abstract concept that someone can violently oppose an idea without being literally violent.
There is one poster "repeatedly" making false claims of violence and harassment, in my opinion to have the thread closedJust to make you aware that threads can be locked for many reasons, personally I was going to lock it this morning because there were too many posts to delete and the on going arguments we’re not really honouring to anyone. Thankfully it kind of got back on topic….so I will leave it open for the time being x
Rita
All the violence going on?Right with all the violence that was going on.
Probably should be closed for that reason alone.
You write in presumption of a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scripture
There is no "Literal" period of a thousand years seen in Revelation 20:1-6 as you claim, and you "Falsely" call me a blatant liar, and use the suggestive words that I'm a pig, in a direct personal attackSo yes, it is a theory, and yet it is a fact that Rev 20 proposes a literal period of a thousand years, the "Millennium." So don't tell me this isn't in any place in Scripture. That is a blatant lie!
I don't usually like to call anyone a liar, but I can't dress up a pig and make it smell beautiful. You are lying. It is in Rev 20:
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
The idea of God's Kingdom coming to earth is in Jesus' eschatology. His message is: the Kingdom of God is coming to earth. Or, the Kingdom of Heaven is coming to earth.
The concept of the Kingdom of God coming to earth was first proposed under the Old Covenant when only Israel was God's People. They were failing badly and trusted that one day God's Kingdom would come to them, restoring David's Kingdom to the way it should be.
In the New Testament, the Kingdom of God is expanded to include many nations because to Abraham was promised not just Israel, but many nations of faith. And so, Jesus said that God's Kingdom is coming to earth. And it is about this that the Prophets spoke in numerous places. I call it, "the Hope of Israel." But it is also the Hope of the World.
Some people believe that when Christ returns, God's Kingdom will indeed come to earth, but not just for a thousand years. It will be forever. Millennialists also believe that--we just believe that the Kingdom begins with a mortal population and ends with a completely remodeled world, populated only by the redeemed in immortal bodies.
There really isn't a whole lot of difference between Amills and Premills, since both view the Kingdom of God coming to the earth. Whether this Kingdom will be a literal or a symbolic "thousand years" I guess we'll find out? And whether or not mortal humanity continues for another thousand years before the "New Earth" I guess we'll find that out too?
So maybe you should rephrase your claim that the Millennium is not in the Scriptures? It is there. The only question concerns whether the thousand years is literal and whether there will be a mortal population or not.
There is no "Literal" thousand years on this earth seen in Revelation 20:1-6 as you claim, and you "Falsely" call me a blatant liar, and use the suggestive words that I'm a pig, in a direct personal attack
Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?
1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?
You blatantly called myself a liar, and characterized myself as a pig, in a direct personal attackNo, I was saying there is no way I can make your "lie" true--I just have to call it what it is. I don't think you're a pig, but I do think you told a lie. And I want anybody reading to know that it is blatantly false. I quoted the passage, and so there should be no question about it, whether you intended to mislead or not.
I don't actually think you intended to lie, although that's how it comes across. You indicated there is no Millennium in the Bible. And of course, we wouldn't be discussing it at all unless it was there!
So I left open the possibility that you misstated what you intended to say. I think you intended to say there is no reason to assume that the Millennium that is literally spelled out in the Scriptures is to be taken literally? There is no Millennium with a mortal civilization. I think that's what you really intended to say?
So be careful how you put things. You dogmatically stated there is no Millennium in the Bible. And as I showed everyone here, there is. And we all know it, save those who may not know the Bible very well.
So let's begin with the truth that the Millennium is in fact spelled out in the Scriptures? Why should that *not* be taken literally when we are told that God's Kingdom is coming to Israel to restore that nation? And by extension, why shouldn't we assume that this will also take place for the nations that fall away from Christianity--they need to be restored as nations too!
At what point do we as Christians become immortal? It is at Christ's Coming, which is also called the "1st Resurrection." This takes place on the last day of the present age. So why would there be a need for a "2nd Resurrection" if everyone on earth dies at the 2nd Coming or is made immortal? No, a resurrection is needed only when people die. And so, people die before the 2nd Resurrection at the end of the Millennium. That's the only conclusion I can responsibly reach!
For what it's worthy, I don't think you're by nature a "liar," nor in any way resembling a "pig" as a dirty animal. I'm just saying that the way you phrased your dogmatic statement comes across as such. And that's the only way I could deal with it. The Millennium is there, for better or for worse, no matter how you may want to dress it up.
You blatantly called myself a liar, and characterized myself as a pig, in a direct personal attack
Focus on the topic and stay away from personal attacks
Jesus Is The Lord
I will say dogmatically again, there is no "Literal" 1,000 year kingdom on earth found in Revelation 20:1-6, or in the Holy BibleYou said dogmatically that there is no Millennium in the Bible. That is a lie, and at best very misleading. I intended to correct that by showing you that the opposite is true--the Millennium is indeed in the Bible. I'm focused on that!
So will you now admit that the Millennium is, in fact, in the Bible? Begin with that, and then you can deny what you think it means.
I will say dogmatically again, there is no "Literal" 1,000 year kingdom on earth found in Revelation 20:1-6, or in the Holy Bible
There are Millions of Ahmillennialist in the world that believe the same
It's my request that you refrain from the false personal attacks in calling me a liar
It's your "Opinion" that there is a "Literal" 1,000 year Kingdom on earth, and it's my "Opinion" there isnt, and I'm not calling you a liar or a pig
Jesus Is The Lord
I will state it very clear, yes I wrote that seen below, and it's my "Opinion" your words are presumptuous claiming a literal 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth, that dosent exist in scriptureThat may be what you meant to say, but that isn't what you said. Again you said, "You write in presumption of a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scripture." You *did not say* there is no *literal Kingdom.* You said there was no thousand year period, which we call the Millennium in the Scriptures!
So I'm just suggesting that before you make dogmatic, blanket statements denying the existence of the Millennium in the Bible, you should watch your language and admit that it is in fact in the Bible. Then we can argue from the position that it is indeed in the Bible questions about how literal it is.
The problem, brother, is that you made a definitive blanket statement designed to make it appear that Millennial beliefs are without foundation altogether. But the fact it is in the Bible indicates it has, from the beginning, a strong foundation in fact.
Some things may be symbolic, and we can discuss that. But my point is, it is a *lie* to say it isn't in the Bible. So now you are altering your claim to say you deny a *literal Millennium* is in the Bible. I can accept that as an opinion, though not necessarily as a fact, since it is in the Bible and is subject to opinion.
I will state it very clear, yes I wrote that seen below, and it's my "Opinion" your words are presumptuous claiming a literal 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth, that dosent exist in scripture
It's your "Opinion" a literal 1,000 year Kingdom exist, and it's my "Opinion" it dosent, and I'm not calling you a liar or a pig
Truth7t7: You write in presumption there is a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scripture
Jesus Is The Lord
"Thousand Years" pertains to the Lords Spiritual realm, not this earth, I have explained this several times, plain, simple, easy to understandI'm sorry, but there's a bit of a delay in receiving your messages. I'm sometimes still editing my comments to you. Regardless, I accept your restatement up to a point. You seem, however, to be restating the error that there is no Millennium on this earth when the Scriptures distinctly say there will be one! Whether you take it literally or symbolically, there will be a Millennium on this earth according to the Scriptures.
This time I won't call you a liar. I will just say that you're stating something dogmatically that appears to me to be untrue and without foundation. If you're just saying the Millennium is to be taken symbolically, just say that--don't say the Millennium on earth is not to be found in the Bible!
"Thousand Years" pertains to the Lords Spiritual realm, not this earth, I have explained this several times, plain, simple, easy to understand
You want (Thousand Years) to apply literally to this earth, its dosen't
A literal 1,000 year Millenium on this earth isnt found in the Holy Bible
"Thousand Years" in Revelation 20:1-6 dosent represent a Kingdom on this earth, it represents one day is a thousand years in the Lord spiritual realm of no time, that seen in Revelation 20:1-6 is spiritual realm, where "Literal" dosent exist
It's your opinion a "Literal" 1,000 years exists on earth, and it's my opinion it dosent
And once again, no place in scripture is a "Literal" 1,000 year reign upon this earth seenWhat the Scriptures do say is that there will be this thousand year period on the earth. It will be a reign not in heaven but on the earth. And the whole idea of reigning on the earth suggests that there is still Sin on the earth that needs to be governed.
And also, as I said, a 1st and 2nd resurrection suggests that mortality continues until the 2nd resurrection, which takes place *after* a thousand years.
This is not spiritual. Resurrection is physical and earthly. Governing in a Kingdom is earthly.
Everything promised to Israel in the OT about the future Davidic Kingdom is earthly. If you think this is "spiritual," then you are simply spiritualizing truths that normally would apply on the earth.
Rev 20.4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 5.10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
Rev 2.27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.