(Adultery) C.I. Scofield And Dispensationalism's Foundations

[Rita]

Right with all the violence that was going on.

Probably should be closed for that reason alone.

I said arguments -try reading x

 

[Randy Kluth]

Just to make you aware that threads can be locked for many reasons, personally I was going to lock it this morning because there were too many posts to delete and the on going arguments we’re not really honouring to anyone. Thankfully it kind of got back on topic….so I will leave it open for the time being x
Rita

I agree with your sensible thoughts here. On another forum I was blocked on a particular subject because the "forum within the Forum" was designed to exclude anything that questions the orthodoxy favored there. It was basically a Catholic forum resisting any questions about their orthodoxy.

Well, that's okay as long as that is clear. On this particular forum, I think some wish to exclude questions in the same spirit, to require conformity and to exclude any negative feedback. And any debate forum that does this is ruining the entire discussion, since it is dependent on opposing positions trying to work things out.

So the only question is: How rowdy is it getting, and are we defining "rowdy" as any unpleasant exchanges? I think being human we're going to have unpleasant exchanges.

So there has to be some laxity, as I view it. I like, therefore, your willingness to see it through, in case things get back to real discussion of the issues.

It began as a kind of "negative dismissal of a Christian person." But sometimes that is required. I know of some very good Christian leaders who did some off-beat things that they needed to be called into account about! I guess we'll see how far this goes?

 

[Truth7t7]

And I disagree with your apparent sense that any opposition to Dispensationalism requires rejection of either a Millennium or an eventual restoration of Israel and other nations in the Millennium.

You write in presumption of a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scripture

Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire, there wont be a Millennial Kingdom on this earth following

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation?

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ?

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[teamventure]

Right with all the violence that was going on.

Probably should be closed for that reason alone.

That is a strawman fallacy and are your words not mine.
It's an abstract concept that someone can violently oppose an idea without being literally violent.

 

[Truth7t7]

That is a strawman fallacy and are your words not mine.
It's an abstract concept that someone can violently oppose an idea without being literally violent.

Stop the false claims, nobody is being violent, the topic is C.I. Scofield and Adultery

 

[Truth7t7]

Just to make you aware that threads can be locked for many reasons, personally I was going to lock it this morning because there were too many posts to delete and the on going arguments we’re not really honouring to anyone. Thankfully it kind of got back on topic….so I will leave it open for the time being x
Rita

There is one poster "repeatedly" making false claims of violence and harassment, in my opinion to have the thread closed

Of course the subject of "Adultery" is touchy in a world and church that is filled with it

Why would anyone want to silence the fact C.I. Scofield was an Adulterer, a foundational figure in dispensationalism

May the forum know the life of C.I. Scofield, the modern father of dispensationalism (Adulterer)

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

Right with all the violence that was going on.

Probably should be closed for that reason alone.

All the violence going on?

False claim in my opinion, no violence whatsoever, fake news narrative to get rid of the sensitive topic on "Adultery"

Amazing how the topic of "Adultery" in a foundational leader (C.I Scofield) has hit a nerve, the topic is right on target!

Back to the topic, C.I. Scofield and (Adultery)

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Randy Kluth]

You write in presumption of a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scripture

The answer is: the Millennial Day Theory exists for a reason, and it existed in the early Church. With the Lord a day is as a thousand years. We've all heard that. So yes, it is a theory, and yet it is a fact that Rev 20 proposes a literal period of a thousand years, the "Millennium." So don't tell me this isn't in any place in Scripture. That is a blatant lie!

I don't usually like to call anyone a liar, but I can't dress up a pig and make it smell beautiful. You are lying. It is in Rev 20:

2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

The idea of God's Kingdom coming to earth is in Jesus' eschatology. His message is: the Kingdom of God is coming to earth. Or, the Kingdom of Heaven is coming to earth.

The concept of the Kingdom of God coming to earth was first proposed under the Old Covenant when only Israel was God's People. They were failing badly and trusted that one day God's Kingdom would come to them, restoring David's Kingdom to the way it should be.

In the New Testament, the Kingdom of God is expanded to include many nations because to Abraham was promised not just Israel, but many nations of faith. And so, Jesus said that God's Kingdom is coming to earth. And it is about this that the Prophets spoke in numerous places. I call it, "the Hope of Israel." But it is also the Hope of the World.

Some people believe that when Christ returns, God's Kingdom will indeed come to earth, but not just for a thousand years. It will be forever. Millennialists also believe that--we just believe that the Kingdom begins with a mortal population and ends with a completely remodeled world, populated only by the redeemed in immortal bodies.

There really isn't a whole lot of difference between Amills and Premills, since both view the Kingdom of God coming to the earth. Whether this Kingdom will be a literal or a symbolic "thousand years" I guess we'll find out? And whether or not mortal humanity continues for another thousand years before the "New Earth" I guess we'll find that out too?

So maybe you should rephrase your claim that the Millennium is not in the Scriptures? It is there. The only question concerns whether the thousand years is literal and whether there will be a mortal population or not.

 

[Truth7t7]

So yes, it is a theory, and yet it is a fact that Rev 20 proposes a literal period of a thousand years, the "Millennium." So don't tell me this isn't in any place in Scripture. That is a blatant lie!

I don't usually like to call anyone a liar, but I can't dress up a pig and make it smell beautiful. You are lying. It is in Rev 20:

2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

The idea of God's Kingdom coming to earth is in Jesus' eschatology. His message is: the Kingdom of God is coming to earth. Or, the Kingdom of Heaven is coming to earth.

The concept of the Kingdom of God coming to earth was first proposed under the Old Covenant when only Israel was God's People. They were failing badly and trusted that one day God's Kingdom would come to them, restoring David's Kingdom to the way it should be.

In the New Testament, the Kingdom of God is expanded to include many nations because to Abraham was promised not just Israel, but many nations of faith. And so, Jesus said that God's Kingdom is coming to earth. And it is about this that the Prophets spoke in numerous places. I call it, "the Hope of Israel." But it is also the Hope of the World.

Some people believe that when Christ returns, God's Kingdom will indeed come to earth, but not just for a thousand years. It will be forever. Millennialists also believe that--we just believe that the Kingdom begins with a mortal population and ends with a completely remodeled world, populated only by the redeemed in immortal bodies.

There really isn't a whole lot of difference between Amills and Premills, since both view the Kingdom of God coming to the earth. Whether this Kingdom will be a literal or a symbolic "thousand years" I guess we'll find out? And whether or not mortal humanity continues for another thousand years before the "New Earth" I guess we'll find that out too?

So maybe you should rephrase your claim that the Millennium is not in the Scriptures? It is there. The only question concerns whether the thousand years is literal and whether there will be a mortal population or not.

There is no "Literal" period of a thousand years seen in Revelation 20:1-6 as you claim, and you "Falsely" call me a blatant liar, and use the suggestive words that I'm a pig, in a direct personal attack

That seen below is in the Lords spiritual realm of (No Literal Time) one day is a thousand years

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is no "Literal" thousand years on this earth seen in Revelation 20:1-6 as you claim, and you "Falsely" call me a blatant liar, and use the suggestive words that I'm a pig, in a direct personal attack

No, I was saying there is no way I can make your "lie" true--I just have to call it what it is. I don't think you're a pig, but I do think you told a lie. And I want anybody reading to know that it is blatantly false. I quoted the passage, and so there should be no question about it, whether you intended to mislead or not.

I don't actually think you intended to lie, although that's how it comes across. You indicated there is no Millennium in the Bible. And of course, we wouldn't be discussing it at all unless it was there!

So I left open the possibility that you misstated what you intended to say. I think you intended to say there is no reason to assume that the Millennium is to be taken literally? There is no Millennium with a mortal civilization. I think that's what you really intended to say?

So be careful how you put things. You dogmatically stated there is no Millennium in the Bible. And as I showed everyone here, there is. And we all know it, save those who may not know the Bible very well.

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

So let's begin with the truth that the Millennium is in fact spelled out in the Scriptures? Why should that *not* be taken literally when we are told that God's Kingdom is coming to Israel to restore that nation? And by extension, why shouldn't we assume that this will also take place for the nations that fall away from Christianity--they need to be restored as nations too!

At what point do we as Christians become immortal? It is at Christ's Coming, which is also called the "1st Resurrection." This takes place on the last day of the present age. So why would there be a need for a "2nd Resurrection" if everyone on earth dies at the 2nd Coming or is made immortal?

No, a resurrection is needed only when people die. And so, people die before the 2nd Resurrection at the end of the Millennium. That's the only conclusion I can responsibly reach!

For what it's worthy, I don't think you're by nature a "liar," nor in any way resembling a "pig" as a dirty animal. I'm just saying that the way you phrased your dogmatic statement comes across as such. And that's the only way I could deal with it. The Millennium is there, for better or for worse, no matter how you may want to dress it up.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, I was saying there is no way I can make your "lie" true--I just have to call it what it is. I don't think you're a pig, but I do think you told a lie. And I want anybody reading to know that it is blatantly false. I quoted the passage, and so there should be no question about it, whether you intended to mislead or not.

I don't actually think you intended to lie, although that's how it comes across. You indicated there is no Millennium in the Bible. And of course, we wouldn't be discussing it at all unless it was there!

So I left open the possibility that you misstated what you intended to say. I think you intended to say there is no reason to assume that the Millennium that is literally spelled out in the Scriptures is to be taken literally? There is no Millennium with a mortal civilization. I think that's what you really intended to say?

So be careful how you put things. You dogmatically stated there is no Millennium in the Bible. And as I showed everyone here, there is. And we all know it, save those who may not know the Bible very well.



So let's begin with the truth that the Millennium is in fact spelled out in the Scriptures? Why should that *not* be taken literally when we are told that God's Kingdom is coming to Israel to restore that nation? And by extension, why shouldn't we assume that this will also take place for the nations that fall away from Christianity--they need to be restored as nations too!

At what point do we as Christians become immortal? It is at Christ's Coming, which is also called the "1st Resurrection." This takes place on the last day of the present age. So why would there be a need for a "2nd Resurrection" if everyone on earth dies at the 2nd Coming or is made immortal? No, a resurrection is needed only when people die. And so, people die before the 2nd Resurrection at the end of the Millennium. That's the only conclusion I can responsibly reach!

For what it's worthy, I don't think you're by nature a "liar," nor in any way resembling a "pig" as a dirty animal. I'm just saying that the way you phrased your dogmatic statement comes across as such. And that's the only way I could deal with it. The Millennium is there, for better or for worse, no matter how you may want to dress it up.

You blatantly called myself a liar, and characterized myself as a pig, in a direct personal attack

Focus on the topic and stay away from personal attacks

Jesus Is The Lord

Quote: Randy Kluth Post #168

"So don't tell me this isn't in any place in Scripture. That is a blatant lie!

I don't usually like to call anyone a liar, but I can't dress up a pig and make it smell beautiful. You are lying. It is in Rev 20:"

 

[Randy Kluth]

You blatantly called myself a liar, and characterized myself as a pig, in a direct personal attack

Focus on the topic and stay away from personal attacks

Jesus Is The Lord

You said dogmatically that there is no Millennium in the Bible. That is a lie, and at best very misleading. I intended to correct that by showing you that the opposite is true--the Millennium is indeed in the Bible. I'm focused on that!

So will you now admit that the Millennium is, in fact, in the Bible? Begin with that, and then you can deny whatever and explain what you think it means.

I've explained that I was not calling you a "pig," nor characterizing you as a "pig." I explained to you that it is the *lie* that is the pig.

If you want to go on misstating what I just explained to you, go ahead and play the martyr. But the bottom line is, what you said was open to criticism because it was inaccurate.

As such, it wasn't true. That means it was a "lie," unless you wish to correct it as a misstatement or clearly misleading?

You said, "You write in presumption of a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scripture." Don't you think you should correct this, since it so obviously falls short of the truth?

 

[Truth7t7]

You said dogmatically that there is no Millennium in the Bible. That is a lie, and at best very misleading. I intended to correct that by showing you that the opposite is true--the Millennium is indeed in the Bible. I'm focused on that!

So will you now admit that the Millennium is, in fact, in the Bible? Begin with that, and then you can deny what you think it means.

I will say dogmatically again, there is no "Literal" 1,000 year kingdom on earth found in Revelation 20:1-6, or in the Holy Bible

There are Millions of Ahmillennialist in the world that believe the same

It's my request that you refrain from the false personal attacks in calling me a liar

It's your "Opinion" that there is a "Literal" 1,000 year Kingdom on earth, and it's my "Opinion" there isnt, and I'm not calling you a liar or a pig

Stop the personal attacks!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Randy Kluth]

I will say dogmatically again, there is no "Literal" 1,000 year kingdom on earth found in Revelation 20:1-6, or in the Holy Bible

There are Millions of Ahmillennialist in the world that believe the same

It's my request that you refrain from the false personal attacks in calling me a liar

It's your "Opinion" that there is a "Literal" 1,000 year Kingdom on earth, and it's my "Opinion" there isnt, and I'm not calling you a liar or a pig

Jesus Is The Lord

That may be what you meant to say, but that isn't what you said. Again you said, "You write in presumption of a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scripture." You *did not say* there is no *literal Kingdom.* You said there was no thousand year period, which we call the Millennium in the Scriptures!

So I'm just suggesting that before you make dogmatic, blanket statements denying the existence of the Millennium in the Bible, you should watch your language and admit that it is in fact in the Bible. Then we can argue from the position that it is indeed in the Bible questions about how literal it is.

The problem, brother, is that you made a definitive blanket statement designed to make it appear that Millennial beliefs are without foundation altogether. But the fact it is in the Bible indicates it has, from the beginning, a strong foundation in fact.

Some things may be symbolic, and we can discuss that. But my point is, it is a *lie* to say it isn't in the Bible. So now you are altering your claim to say you deny a *literal Millennium* is in the Bible. I can accept that as an opinion, though not necessarily as a fact, since it is in the Bible and is subject to opinion.

I may say there is no Resurrection in the Bible when speaking in reference to the Resurrection of angels. But if I don't explain that I'm talking about the Resurrection of Angels, and just say, "There is no Resurrection in the Bible," it becomes a lie, since most would understand this to be untrue.

I would add just this bit more. I also wish to move on from this. I perhaps would wish I hadn't been so blatant in my accusation. But I'm also asking you to stop being so dogmatic in stating things as facts. When you do so, you appear to be saying things you didn't mean to say.

 

[Truth7t7]

That may be what you meant to say, but that isn't what you said. Again you said, "You write in presumption of a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scripture." You *did not say* there is no *literal Kingdom.* You said there was no thousand year period, which we call the Millennium in the Scriptures!

So I'm just suggesting that before you make dogmatic, blanket statements denying the existence of the Millennium in the Bible, you should watch your language and admit that it is in fact in the Bible. Then we can argue from the position that it is indeed in the Bible questions about how literal it is.

The problem, brother, is that you made a definitive blanket statement designed to make it appear that Millennial beliefs are without foundation altogether. But the fact it is in the Bible indicates it has, from the beginning, a strong foundation in fact.

Some things may be symbolic, and we can discuss that. But my point is, it is a *lie* to say it isn't in the Bible. So now you are altering your claim to say you deny a *literal Millennium* is in the Bible. I can accept that as an opinion, though not necessarily as a fact, since it is in the Bible and is subject to opinion.

I will state it very clear, yes I wrote that seen below, and it's my "Opinion" your words are presumptuous claiming a literal 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth, that dosent exist in scripture

It's your "Opinion" a literal 1,000 year Kingdom exist, and it's my "Opinion" it dosent, and I'm not calling you a liar or a pig

Truth7t7: You write in presumption there is a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scripture

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Randy Kluth]

I will state it very clear, yes I wrote that seen below, and it's my "Opinion" your words are presumptuous claiming a literal 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth, that dosent exist in scripture

It's your "Opinion" a literal 1,000 year Kingdom exist, and it's my "Opinion" it dosent, and I'm not calling you a liar or a pig

Truth7t7: You write in presumption there is a Millennium on this earth, a teaching found no place in scripture

Jesus Is The Lord

I'm sorry, but there's a bit of a delay in receiving your messages. I'm sometimes still editing my comments to you. Regardless, I accept your restatement up to a point. You seem, however, to be restating the error that there is no Millennium on this earth when the Scriptures distinctly say there will be one! Whether you take it literally or symbolically, there will be a Millennium on this earth according to the Scriptures.

This time I won't call you a liar. I will just say that you're stating something dogmatically that appears to me to be untrue and without foundation. If you're just saying the Millennium is to be taken symbolically, just say that--don't say the Millennium on earth is not to be found in the Bible!

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm sorry, but there's a bit of a delay in receiving your messages. I'm sometimes still editing my comments to you. Regardless, I accept your restatement up to a point. You seem, however, to be restating the error that there is no Millennium on this earth when the Scriptures distinctly say there will be one! Whether you take it literally or symbolically, there will be a Millennium on this earth according to the Scriptures.

This time I won't call you a liar. I will just say that you're stating something dogmatically that appears to me to be untrue and without foundation. If you're just saying the Millennium is to be taken symbolically, just say that--don't say the Millennium on earth is not to be found in the Bible!

"Thousand Years" pertains to the Lords Spiritual realm, not this earth, I have explained this several times, plain, simple, easy to understand

You want (Thousand Years) to apply literally to this earth, its dosen't

A literal 1,000 year Millenium on this earth isnt found in the Holy Bible

"Thousand Years" in Revelation 20:1-6 dosent represent a Kingdom on this earth, it represents one day is a thousand years in the Lord spiritual realm of no time, that seen in Revelation 20:1-6 is spiritual realm, where "Literal" dosent exist

It's your opinion a "Literal" 1,000 years exists on earth, and it's my opinion it dosent

 

[Randy Kluth]

"Thousand Years" pertains to the Lords Spiritual realm, not this earth, I have explained this several times, plain, simple, easy to understand

You want (Thousand Years) to apply literally to this earth, its dosen't

A literal 1,000 year Millenium on this earth isnt found in the Holy Bible

"Thousand Years" in Revelation 20:1-6 dosent represent a Kingdom on this earth, it represents one day is a thousand years in the Lord spiritual realm of no time, that seen in Revelation 20:1-6 is spiritual realm, where "Literal" dosent exist

It's your opinion a "Literal" 1,000 years exists on earth, and it's my opinion it dosent

Not at all. The reason I brought up "one day is as a thousand years" is because that is where others got the "Millennial Day" theory. And I was using that to show where belief in the Millennium was in the Early Church because they saw it as logical from the Scriptures. I'm not saying that's my argument.

I have no idea if there will be 6000 years, representing "6 days," with the "7th day" being the Millennial period of rest! It's logical, but nothing in the Scriptures says that.

What the Scriptures do say is that there will be this thousand year period on the earth. It will be a reign not in heaven but on the earth. And the whole idea of reigning on the earth suggests that there is still Sin on the earth that needs to be governed.

And also, as I said, a 1st and 2nd resurrection suggests that mortality continues until the 2nd resurrection, which takes place *after* a thousand years.

This is not spiritual. Resurrection is physical and earthly. Governing in a Kingdom is earthly.

Everything promised to Israel in the OT about the future Davidic Kingdom is earthly. If you think this is "spiritual," then you are simply spiritualizing truths that normally would apply on the earth.

Rev 20.4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 5.10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

Rev 2.27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.

 

[Truth7t7]

What the Scriptures do say is that there will be this thousand year period on the earth. It will be a reign not in heaven but on the earth. And the whole idea of reigning on the earth suggests that there is still Sin on the earth that needs to be governed.

And also, as I said, a 1st and 2nd resurrection suggests that mortality continues until the 2nd resurrection, which takes place *after* a thousand years.

This is not spiritual. Resurrection is physical and earthly. Governing in a Kingdom is earthly.

Everything promised to Israel in the OT about the future Davidic Kingdom is earthly. If you think this is "spiritual," then you are simply spiritualizing truths that normally would apply on the earth.

Rev 20.4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 5.10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

Rev 2.27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.

And once again, no place in scripture is a "Literal" 1,000 year reign upon this earth seen

Revelation 20:1-6 is seen In the Lords "Spiritual Realm", where "Literal" earthly time dosent exist

"Thousand Years" is nothing more than showing one day is a thousand years in the Lords eternal spiritual realm, no "Literal" time

 

[Taken]

@Randy Kluth ~

The ALL Knowing, ALL Powerful, ALL Present, Lord God Almighty, has multiple names and titles and descriptions.

~ The names and titles and descriptions are Knowledge for mankind TO KNOW, where He IS and what He IS doing at Specific Times that effect mankind.

~ As long as there ARE Mortal men upon the face of the Earth, THE WHOLE of God Himself, IS Shielded from mortal mankind’s ability to SEE Him or HEAR Him.

~ Call the Son of man ~ JESUS
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man ~ Jesus
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man ~ Word of God
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man ~ Gods Truth
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man ~ legally, House of David
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man ~ legally, entitled David’s throne.
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man ~ legally, Abraham’s heir
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man ~ legally, entitled Abe’s Land
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man IS the Power of God ~ CHRIST
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man IS the Light of God ~ CHRIST
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man IS the Son of God ~ Lord
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man IS the Wisdom of God ~ CHRIST
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man IS the Lamb of God ~ Lord
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man IS Gods Anointed ~ Lord
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man IS the Seed of God ~ CHRIST
~ When a man KNOWS the Son of man IS the Quickening Spirit ~ CHRIST

When a man DOES NOT KNOW....SEEING is one thing...KNOWING without SEEING is another thing........they BLUR the FACTS.
~ The Son of man ~ Jesus, HAS specific Scriptural References (Lord, Christ, Word, etc.) FOR specific reasons. Changing the Scriptural FACTS...leads the reader down a rabbit hole of confusion and non truths.

God gave mankind SOMETHING TO “SEE”, SOMETHING TO “HEAR”, while NOT being able to “SEE” or “HEAR” God....
YET “KNOWING”, it IS Gods WORD, Gods TRUTH, Gods KNOWLEDGE, Gods SPIRIT, Gods POWER, Gods AUTHORITY, Gods SEED, etc.

WHY? Why DID GOD GIVE mankind....”something to Hear” and “See”?
Scripture tells us in the OT. Men did not believe, HEARING from men, who pass on to them VISIONS. Men did not believe, HEARING secondhand. Men did not believe, Without SEEING!

God Himself IS TRUE and FAITHFUL. Every Covenant, Every Promise, Every Foretelling, Every Prophecy, SHALL BE FULFILLED.

It SHOULD already BE concluded IN a mans MIND, that God Himself IS without beginning, without ending. GOD IS NOT CONFINED BY A MEASURE OF TIME. GOD established TIME “for” Mankind...(hours, days, weeks, seasons, years).
WHAT IS a specific TIME-FRAME for mankind, is but a BLIP of TIME, of the Eternal without beginning or ending, Lord God Almighty.

A Thousand Year Reign is A Thousand Years and IS Scriptural.
The Thousand Year Reign of King JESUS, sitting on king David’s throne, IN King JESUS’ Kingdom, encompassing His inheritance of Abraham’s Promised Land.......IS a fulfillment of Gods Promise.

Rev 20:
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Gen 6:3
[3] And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

IS that TRUE? No one has lived past 120 years? Yes, men have lived past 120 years.
IS that TRUE? Gods Spirit has been with ALL men, and then NOT been with ALL men? No.
SO when shall THAT be FULFILLED?

During the Millennial Reign.
Jesus’ Entire Kingdom IS Filled with men SEALED unto God.
Outside of Jesus’ Kingdom ARE a remnant of FAITHFUL, (not Sealed), MORTALS....WITHOUT the presence OF Evil Angels to Influence them.

FOR a Literal One Thousand Years, Mortal men will Live, establish their cities, their nations, their governments, leaders, multiply, generationally die before 121 years, generationally MANY LEADERS, SHALL MAKE their yearly Pilgrimage to Jerusalem, Jesus’ Throne, Learn and Teach and Govern their people According to the Word of God ...
and MANY LEADERS as they generationally prosper in Material things, and SHALL FALL AWAY from their yearly Pilgrimage, and FALL AWAY from Learning and Teaching and Governing their People According to the Word of God.

AFTER the One Thousand Years have expired, SATAN and his fallen angel followers are LOOSED from their bondage, to Influence the nations of mortal men remaining on Earth (outside of Jesus’ Kingdom).

Rev 20:
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And lookie here...Satan, and mortals WITH Satan, shall even TRY to attack Jesus’ KINGDOM...

Rev 20:
[9](a) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city...

....BIG boo, boo.

Rev 20:
[9] (b)..and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev 20:
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Thereafter......Judgement of mankind.

All the Mortals, WHOSE influence and Spirit of God no longer strived with such men....SHALL fall into damnation, with “their father”, the Devil.


It’s mankind’s FINAL LESSON. Men without God Fail to Live in peace and harmony. Men EVEN VOID of Satan’s influence, FAIL to Live in peace and harmony.
Bottom Line; Life, Peace, Harmony OF mankind, IS ONLY WITH the Lord God Almighty.
There IS NO, “kind of, sort of WITH Lord God Almighty”.

Matt 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me...

@Randy Kluth ~
You can show them in Scripture, but you can not:
Believe the Truth FOR Them,
Study the Truth FOR Them, or
Understand the Truth FOR Them.

Men were only created and made....”very good”....not “perfect”.
Men have faults. ALL Men lie, cheat, steal, trespass, fail, etc.
Men WITH the Lord God Almighty, IS their Saving Grace.
Men who sort of cling to God and then LEAVE GOD for another god....
IS the Adulterer, that a man should have learned: IS a SIN Against God.

Glory to God,
Taken