The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Oceanprayers]

If that were true, then everybody would be keeping the sabbath, Gentiles & Jews alike, that there would be no need for that commandment.

But the keeping of the sabbath was for the Jews as His chosen people to get saved by.

“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” (Genesis 2:1-3)

Where in the OT are we told Sabbath observation saved the Jews?

 

[Grailhunter]

Can you explain what Luke was reporting about here in the early church in Acts?

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved......4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Why didn't they say the Gentiles were to keep the sabbath then in verse 20? Is it because of how the Jews were doing it to be saved when they are saved?

This is a good topic for discussion....a lot to it. It would be worthy of a thread.

I will give you a short answer....as much as Christians would like to think that one of the apostles went in and flipped a switch and everything changed in an instant of time to the Christianity as we know it today.... That is false. A lot of what people see as Christianity today was slow to transition through an extended period of time and a lot of it was very turbulent times. Understanding what went on with siege of Jerusalem and nearly 250 years of horror that the Christians endured with the Romans is also important to know. etc

 

[quietthinker]

You're trying to make the case that the Commandments can't be Forever if they didn't exist prior to Creation.

I gave you an alternative scenario that was just as effective. God intended them to be observed for a minimum of 35,000 years.

Now, think up another rebuttal.

Well, the 35,000 year thing is a new one on me....which means I have no idea what you mean.

I look at it like this...In a perfect environment where all is harmony there is no call for laws that don't apply.
Laws which challenge a persons poor or evil inclinations are in place because a problem exists, for example, a 50klm speed limit near schools is in place so children who are distracted have less of a chance of being hit by speeding drivers etc etc.

Somehow man lost his moral compass after the fall and anarchy became the trajectory
Law is better than anarchy, it at least gives what is out of control some parameters.

When all again is harmony after the 'sin situation' in this world is dealt with and ended; when the redeemed become heirs of the Earth made new and anything that defiles has vanished we will hardly need laws that say don't kill, don't steal, don't covet etc etc.

 

[quietthinker]

Is not God with us now and dwelling within us for why we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath as His disciples were?

well, allow me to make this point; it was the religious folk who deemed the disciples were profaning the Sabbath.....Jesus didn't think so.
The perception the religious folk was messed up.....ultimately they were in error in their conclusions.

 

[quietthinker]

The Sabbath day was established long before Abraham. And before there were a people called, Jews.

The Sabbath and Marriage were instituted in Eden not as part of any moral Law ....these where instituted before Man fell.
Let's take marriage....a commitment to love each other in a special personal way
Let's take Sabbath....a day God committed to them so he could be with them in a special way

Both these are positive relationally, not restrictive.

They become restrictive after Man fell because man wanted to do his own thing ie, express his selfishness. He wanted to forget God and looked for gratification/joy/meaning elsewhere.

 

[Christ4Me]

“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” (Genesis 2:1-3)

Where in the OT are we told Sabbath observation saved the Jews?

Jesus said so.

After He lifted the rich man's sight higher that he was seeing Jesus as God for He is good, He told him that keeping the commandments was what the Jews were doing it for .. to get eternal life as in to get saved. Note how He told the disciples that it is impossible for men to save themselves, but for God, it is not impossible.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, with men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Old Covenant was man's turn in doing the best they can in keeping the law to save themselves.

The New Covenant is God's turn by believing in Him is how we are saved apart from the law.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Sabbath and Marriage were instituted in Eden not as part of any moral Law ....these where instituted before Man fell.
Let's take marriage....a commitment to love each other in a special personal way
Let's take Sabbath....a day God committed to them so he could be with them in a special way

Both these are positive relationally, not restrictive.

They become restrictive after Man fell because man wanted to do his own thing ie, express his selfishness. He wanted to forget God and looked for gratification/joy/meaning elsewhere.

How was the Sabbath instituted in the Garden?

 

[Christ4Me]

well, allow me to make this point; it was the religious folk who deemed the disciples were profaning the Sabbath.....Jesus didn't think so.
The perception the religious folk was messed up.....ultimately they were in error in their conclusions.

Then why refer to One greater than the Temple was here for why He was defending His disciples unless they were profaning the sabbath, but guiltless because He was with them?

 

[quietthinker]

How was the Sabbath instituted in the Garden?

The day after A&E were created God put the next day aside....what for?....did he need rest.....was he who holds countless worlds and the whole created order throughout the Universe exhausted?.....I don't think so. I think he created it so that he could spend special time with them, for example, you might have great relationship with your husband or wife but that does not mean you are making love 24/7......those times are special times.
I know the illustration has limitations ....but there you go, God gave them the first day after their creation to hang out with them personally; they were buddies where trust and learning flourished in an environment we have long lost the ability to probably imagine.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Oh, it's certainly interesting. If it's true, it explains a lot about that passage. I've never heard that much detail about it.

That's because, with all due respect, it's not really taught very well.

Makes sense that sun worship would be around at that time, it's been around since the time of Babel at least.

If the Essenes were part of the roots of the modern day Sun-god worship, that would make a lot of sense as we still have Sunday worship - the day of the venerable sun

No, it's not Sun worship. That's the Egyptian religion, which was exceedingly demonic and the basis for modern Satanism.

The Essenes observed a solar calendar because it was referenced in the Book of Enoch as the original one, and they highly honored that book. The mistake they made, however, is in not understanding that the solar calendar was pre-flood, as were most of the events described in the narrative. Things changed when the flood occurred. The earth's axis was thrown off ever so slightly, which caused the breaking up of the deep, and the stars being thrown out of line, and it messed up the calendar year. God had the Jews follow a lunar calendar instead after the flood, which is also mentioned in Enoch.

Anyway, skipping a lot of details, here is why it becomes important: The Essenes were completely fanatical about their observance of the Jewish sabbath, down to exactly what songs were to be sung each sabbath, and at exactly what moments in time, believing everything needed to be in perfect synchronization with the worship of the angels going on in Heaven.

Now, if this is what Paul was warning the Colossians against (and it is. I haven't listed all the ties yet, but Essenism was essentially an adoption of Pythagoreanism into Judaism, hence Paul's reference to them not being robbed by "philosophy" earlier in the letter), then Paul's passing reference to "sabbaths" in Colossians 2:16 becomes weak if keeping the 7th day in any certain way was still central and vital to New Testament Christianity. Certainly they were keeping it, as were they things like Passover and Pentecost early on, but after a Christian fashion now, not after the strictness of the Jews. If he were combating the doctrines of Essenism, then there were would have been this LONG treatise on how to accurately keep the Jewish Sabbath so as not to be sinning against God. Instead you have this passing reference to how the sabbaths in general (along with the new moons and festivals, unclean food laws etc) were now merely "shadows" or foreshadowings of prophetic events now being fulfilled by the church in the NT era. Paul's stress was NOT on keeping the sabbath in the "right" way, but instead on matters of morality (Colossians 3:5-25). Hence it becomes very unlikely that its observance held the same importance then that it does today in the minds of people like the SDAs, who believe it will eventually be a requirement to salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

The day after A&E were created God put the next day aside....what for?....did he need rest.....was he who holds countless worlds and the whole created order throughout the Universe exhausted?.....I don't think so. I think he created it so that he could spend special time with them, for example, you might have great relationship with your husband or wife but that does not mean you are making love 24/7......those times are special times.
I know the illustration has limitations ....but there you go, God gave them the first day after their creation to hang out with them personally; they were buddies where trust and learning flourished in an environment we have long lost the ability to probably imagine.

I agree with this.
But I don't believe Genesis specifically says this.
I'm thinking of the Sabbath keepers. I've never heard this reasoning before.

Do you agree that it's Your idea, or do you think it's written there?

 

[quietthinker]

Then why refer to One greater than the Temple was here for why He was defending His disciples unless they were profaning the sabbath, but guiltless because He was with them?

Jesus was saying his judgement on the matter was superior to theirs (the religious accusers)
He wasn't justifying any error in his disciples. He was exonerating his mates from the accusations of the religious tight shorts.

 

[quietthinker]

I agree with this.
But I don't believe Genesis specifically says this.
I'm thinking of the Sabbath keepers. I've never heard this reasoning before.

Do you agree that it's Your idea, or do you think it's written there?

I think it's joining the dots in favour of a God who desires intimate relationship with his creation.....not because he's obligated but because he is emotionally connected/involved with them.

 

[quietthinker]

The Essenes were completely fanatical about their observance of the Jewish sabbath, down to exactly what songs were to be sung each sabbath, and at exactly what moments in time, believing everything needed to be in perfect synchronization with the worship of the angels going on in Heaven.

A passing comment here HIM.....You call it a Jewish Sabbath when in fact it was a Sabbath given to man well before any Jews existed. This needs sorting out otherwise you connect things in error.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think it's joining the dots in favour of a God who desires intimate relationship with his creation.....not because he's obligated but because he is emotionally connected to them.

Agreed again.
Maybe we shouldn't connect dots and then post what we get? Not sure.
But it's a good thought.
It's just that I'm trained to read scripture plainly and not add to it.
No problem...

 

[farouk]

Agreed again.
Maybe we shouldn't connect dots and then post what we get? Not sure.
But it's a good thought.
It's just that I'm trained to read scripture plainly and not add to it.
No problem...

Always good to keep going back to Scripture.....

 

[GodsGrace]

A passing comment here HIM.....You call it a Jewish Sabbath when in fact it was a Sabbath given to man well before any Jews existed. This needs sorting out otherwise you connect things in error.

See what I mean?
Now the other poster will give you push back
Because the Sabbath was really established in Exodus and for a very specific reason.

 

[GodsGrace]

Always good to keep going back to Scripture.....

And not add to it.

 

[Christ4Me]

Jesus was saying his judgement on the matter was superior to theirs (the religious accusers)
He wasn't justifying any error in his disciples. He was exonerating his mates from the accusations of the religious tight shorts.

By referring to two incidents in the O.T. when the saints did profane the sabbath and were guiltless because they were in the Temple, did not come across to me as Jesus saying His disciples were not profaning the sabbath, but rather why they are guiltless because He was with them, bring Himself greater than the Temple.

 

[Hidden In Him]

A passing comment here HIM.....You call it a Jewish Sabbath when in fact it was a Sabbath given to man well before any Jews existed. This needs sorting out otherwise you connect things in error.

How would you have me say it? I'm referring to the sabbath they were being required to observe under Jewish law.

I suppose you wish to distinguish how it should be kept as opposed to how they did, but if you are predating it to argue that the true original sabbath was somehow corrupted, I think that would be a tough argument to make. Or is that not what you would be arguing for?