The Desecration of the Second Temple.

[Earburner]

Post numbers are given far top hand right of posts ....even on mobiles

Hi Quietthinker,
I have been on this forum for quite awhile now, and now I am using my 4th phone. Sorry, maybe I'm blind, but still I do not see any post #s on my screen(s).

 

[Earburner]

Who knows. Maybe I am being "shadow banned", and I just think that I am talking to people. Right now since page 14, I don't have the "like" option in my posts.

 

[Jay Ross]

EB Post #001
Because of the corruption going on within the religious doctrines of "church-ianity", and the many Bible versions that are running rampant throughout the world,
I don't think that many here understand the depth of meaning, that is revealed in KJV Daniel 9:24-27.
KJV Dan.9[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many [of his disciples] for one week [the 70th wk.]: and in the midst of the [that 70th] week he [Jesus, by His crucifixion] shall cause the [animal] sacrifice and the oblation [temple services] to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations [Jewish continuation of animal sacrifices] he [Jesus] shall make it desolate [void of God/destroyed], even until the consummation [the very end], and that determined [verse 24] shall be poured [out] upon the desolate [both Jews and Gentiles- Acts 10:45].

It seems to me that you contextual understanding of Daniel 9:24-27 is very different to what I perceive that those four verses present as Prophecy.

You are expressing your understanding of those verses, and that understanding does not IMHO gel with the intended understanding that Daniel was conveying.

Because of this diversity of peoples understanding of scripture, what we end up with is confusion of what God was actually stating in His prophetic utterances.

Like others on this forum, God does speak to those who have and ear to hear with, and reveals to those who have an eye to perceive the meaning of what has been written.

Satan also speaks to people and reveals visions that people see in their minds eye as being real and from God.

We all need to check that we are in sink with God and each other when we post on this forum, otherwise it becomes like a computer, garbage in garbage out because of how people have been programmed to compute. Know what I mean.

It is my view that few on this forum even have a grasp as to what God says prophetically in the scriptures and they try to form an opinion that makes some sense to them that explains what it is that they believe is "true."

Perhaps we all need to take a step back from what we believe and rather become watcher of what God is doing during the end of days for mankind. Many are simply watchers of God's handy work and only provide information of what they have seen occurring before them, often presenting images of what they can understand from their era of living.

Perhaps we can all do better when we view scripture with this mind set of what is recorded.

Shalom

Shalom

 

[Earburner]

It seems to me that you contextual understanding of Daniel 9:24-27 is very different to what I perceive that those four verses present as Prophecy.

You are expressing your understanding of those verses, and that understanding does not IMHO gel with the intended understanding that Daniel was conveying.

Because of this diversity of peoples understanding of scripture, what we end up with is confusion of what God was actually stating in His prophetic utterances.

Like others on this forum, God does speak to those who have and ear to hear with, and reveals to those who have an eye to perceive the meaning of what has been written.

Satan also speaks to people and reveals visions that people see in their minds eye as being real and from God.

We all need to check that we are in sink with God and each other when we post on this forum, otherwise it becomes like a computer, garbage in garbage out because of how people have been programmed to compute. Know what I mean.

It is my view that few on this forum even have a grasp as to what God says prophetically in the scriptures and they try to form an opinion that makes some sense to them that explains what it is that they believe is "true."

Perhaps we all need to take a step back from what we believe and rather become watcher of what God is doing during the end of days for mankind. Many are simply watchers of God's handy work and only provide information of what they have seen occurring before them, often presenting images of what they can understand from their era of living.

Perhaps we can all do better when we view scripture with this mind set of what is recorded.

Shalom

Shalom

As a Born Again Christian, I can thoroughly relate to what Jesus said:
Matt.24[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Do not forget that in "church-ianity", there is the coexistence of the wheat and the tares. Therefore, to different degrees, many church doctrines are corrupted by the wisdom of mere men, having not the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jay Ross]

As a Born Again Christian, I can thoroughly relate to what Jesus said:
Matt.24[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Do not forget that in "church-ianity", there is the coexistence of the wheat and the tares. Therefore, to different degrees, many church doctrines are corrupted by the wisdom of mere men, having not the Holy Spirit.

Sadly many believe that they are righteous before God, and King David believed that he was righteous before the prophet Nathan, but the story that Nathan told king David revealed to David that he was the man who had stolen the ancient man's lamb. What David had done was to act "God like" in what he had done and because the people love David they too had turned away from God and His decrees. In effect David had stolen God's lamb from Him. David quickly realised that he was not as righteous as he thought that he was.

The same is true today as well. People believe that they are righteous and as such they act inappropriately in the things that they do.

We can all fail in this manner.

So near yet so far away from God and His understanding of His words of prophecy.

Shalom

 

[Earburner]

Sadly many believe that they are righteous before God, and King David believed that he was righteous before the prophet Nathan, but the story that Nathan told king David revealed to David that he was the man who had stolen the ancient man's lamb. What David had done was to act "God like" in what he had done and because the people love David they too had turned away from God and His decrees. In effect David had stolen God's lamb from Him. David quickly realised that he was not as righteous as he thought that he was.

The same is true today as well. People believe that they are righteous and as such they act inappropriately in the things that they do.

We can all fail in this manner.

So near yet so far away from God and His understanding of His words of prophecy.

Shalom

I don't think you are grasping the reality of Jesus' words: "if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
Every person who is born again by/of God's Holy Spirit, is the "very elect". It's NOT possible for them to be deceived. They are standing in the Righteousness of God, and not the Righteousness of the Law. They no longer work at or rest in their own form of righteousness, which is of the Law.

 

[Timtofly]

Which did He say, was relevant about the temple for today?
1. That it was going to be built again in troublous times? Daniel 9:25
2. he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation. Daniel 9:27
My answer is #2.

Daniel 9:27 is still future. Unless one is watching Israel, they will miss it. Yes point 2 is more relevant than point 1 in 5th century BC. Point number 1 was not even relevant for the church in the first century. It was already ancient history. Point 2 was not relevant in the first century either, as it is not about preterism one iota. The temple in Daniel 9:27 has not even been built yet. That is if someone even tries to insert "temple" into that verse.


"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The word temple is not found in that verse. Neither has this desolation happened during the last 1992 years. Do you accept a 2000+ year gap in this verse? Do you split the "week" into two halves separated by the last 1992 years?

How relevant is this verse in your view?

 

[Timtofly]

Who knows. Maybe I am being "shadow banned", and I just think that I am talking to people. Right now since page 14, I don't have the "like" option in my posts.

You cannot rate your own post. No one can rate their own post. That would be congratulating yourself.

It is even strange to see people quote themselves as if others did not see the first post.

 

[Earburner]

You cannot rate your own post. No one can rate their own post. That would be congratulating yourself.

It is even strange to see people quote themselves as if others did not see the first post.

Yeah, I just misconstrued it, forgetting that is why it is, of what you said.

One can quote themselves, if it was "words of knowledge" for understanding, that was given to them personally by the Lord. In essence, being from the Lord, it would be a quote!

 

[Earburner]

Daniel 9:27 is still future. Unless one is watching Israel, they will miss it. Yes point 2 is more relevant than point 1 in 5th century BC. Point number 1 was not even relevant for the church in the first century. It was already ancient history. Point 2 was not relevant in the first century either, as it is not about preterism one iota. The temple in Daniel 9:27 has not even been built yet. That is if someone even tries to insert "temple" into that verse.


"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The word temple is not found in that verse. Neither has this desolation happened during the last 1992 years. Do you accept a 2000+ year gap in this verse? Do you split the "week" into two halves separated by the last 1992 years?

How relevant is this verse in your view?

Here is my understanding of Daniel 9:27
(As for verse 24, those are the "Six works of God" that were "determined" for Jesus to do. He "finished" them on His first appearance).

Because of the corruption going on within the religious doctrines of "church-ianity", and the many Bible versions that are running rampant throughout the world, I don't think that many here understand the depth of meaning, that is revealed in KJV Daniel 9:24-27.
KJV Dan.9[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many [of his disciples] for one week [the 70th wk.]: and in the midst of the [that 70th] week he [Jesus, by His crucifixion] shall cause the [animal] sacrifice and the oblation [temple services] to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations [Jewish continuation of animal sacrifices] he [Jesus] shall make it desolate [void of God/destroyed], even until the consummation [the very end], and that determined [verse 24] shall be poured [out] upon the desolate [both Jews and Gentiles- see Acts 10:45].

 

[Timtofly]

Here is my understanding of Daniel 9:27
(As for verse 24, those are the "Six works of God" that were "determined" for Jesus to do. He "finished" them on His first appearance.

Because of the corruption going on within the religious doctrines of "church-ianity", and the many Bible versions that are running rampant throughout the world, I don't think that many here understand the depth of meaning, that is revealed in KJV Daniel 9:24-27.
KJV Dan.9[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many [of his disciples] for one week [the 70th wk.]: and in the midst of the [that 70th] week he [Jesus, by His crucifixion] shall cause the [animal] sacrifice and the oblation [temple services] to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations [Jewish continuation of animal sacrifices] he [Jesus] shall make it desolate [void of God/destroyed], even until the consummation [the very end], and that determined [verse 24] shall be poured [out] upon the desolate [both Jews and Gentiles- see Acts 10:45].

From God's perspective outside of creation those 6 things were finished before creation.

The point is they were not implemented for Israel, because God opened up salvation to the Gentiles. So declaring them finished in 30AD is not the point. They will not be implemented until the Second Coming, and more precisely when the 7th Trumpet stops sounding. The 7th Trumpet corresponds to Daniel 9:27, not the 70th week itself. The 70th week is just the earthly ministry of Christ. 3.5 years as Messiah, anointed at baptism. The remainder as Prince at the Second Coming. Even in Daniel, the 70 weeks were not a "closed deal". Gabriel said after 69 weeks, and did not put the 70th week into full detail. Yet the NT, and especially Revelation filled in some missing details.


I don't think any can say desolation was poured out at the Cross. The Cross afforded the physical realization of eternal life. This equation to the temple itself is putting too much emphasis on the OT economy, instead of what the Cross actually did. Daniel 9 is only loosely related to a future AoD, that God allows Satan. But that is only 42 months, not 2,000 years. The Cross brought light into the world not darkness and utter desolation.

The church was not made desolate by the removal of the Holy of Holies. God would now set up a temple in every soul, where the Holy Spirit would work.

 

[Earburner]

From God's perspective outside of creation those 6 things were finished before creation.

The point is they were not implemented for Israel, because God opened up salvation to the Gentiles. So declaring them finished in 30AD is not the point. They will not be implemented until the Second Coming, and more precisely when the 7th Trumpet stops sounding. The 7th Trumpet corresponds to Daniel 9:27, not the 70th week itself. The 70th week is just the earthly ministry of Christ. 3.5 years as Messiah, anointed at baptism. The remainder as Prince at the Second Coming. Even in Daniel, the 70 weeks were not a "closed deal". Gabriel said after 69 weeks, and did not put the 70th week into full detail. Yet the NT, and especially Revelation filled in some missing details.


I don't think any can say desolation was poured out at the Cross. The Cross afforded the physical realization of eternal life. This equation to the temple itself is putting too much emphasis on the OT economy, instead of what the Cross actually did. Daniel 9 is only loosely related to a future AoD, that God allows Satan. But that is only 42 months, not 2,000 years. The Cross brought light into the world not darkness and utter desolation.

The church was not made desolate by the removal of the Holy of Holies. God would now set up a temple in every soul, where the Holy Spirit would work.

I cannot redirect, change or stop your current thinking process, which is the current "spoon fed" diet of "church-ianity", fabricated by "the wisdom of men" (1 Corinthians 2:5, 13) being that of it's scholarly Theologians.
However, if you should ever desire to escape the grasp of the "Tares", who are steeped in "religious doctrine", then Jesus seeks for all Christians to abide by His instructions only: Isaiah 55:8-9, Zechariah 4:6, and John 16:13.

 

[Earburner]

Whether Jew or Gentile, to be desolate, is to be void/absent of God's presence, aka without the Spirit of God. Romans 8:9.
As for the Jews, Jesus told them that the KoG was taken away from them, and it was!

 

[Timtofly]

Whether Jew or Gentile, to be desolate, is to be void/absent of God's presence, aka without the Spirit of God.
As for the Jews, Jesus told them that the KoG was taken away from them, and it was!

It is not taken away from them, because all have been free to join since the Cross. The kingdom is taken away from any one even from the church if the church treats God like Israel did. It was taken away from those corrupted by pride.

 

[Keraz]

It is not taken away from them, because all have been free to join since the Cross. The kingdom is taken away from any one even from the church if the church treats God like Israel did. It was taken away from those corrupted by pride.

What is the failure of people to understand in who are the Chosen people of God today, is that the Salvation offered by Jesus is open to all and ethnicity no longer has any bearing on them.
This truth is made abundantly clear by Paul in Ephesians 2:11-18 and elsewhere.

So the unbiblical idea that those who call themselves Jews now have any claim on Gods favor, is error.
I do agree that God did help them to establish their nation and has helped them during the past 74 years. This has been for His own purposes; to have an entity called Israel, while He works with the real spiritual Israelites - all the people scattered among the nations who truly love Him and keep His Commandments.

So the Chosen people of God, 1 Peter 1:9-10, are all individuals; who may or may not be members of an established Church. Some are Jews, but only a remnant of them will survive the coming punishment of the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 6:11-13, +

 

[Earburner]

It is not taken away from them, because all have been free to join since the Cross. The kingdom is taken away from any one even from the church if the church treats God like Israel did. It was taken away from those corrupted by pride.

Prior to the first appearance of Jesus, the nation of Israel was indeed the KoG on earth. But now that the KoG of was taken from them, and given to the Born Again Saints (1 Peter 2:9), that covenant with God and Israel, as a nation under God, is null and void, ever since Jesus' Crucifixion.
The signification for that, was revealed when the temple veil was torn in two from top to bottom. Matthew 27:50-51.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Who knows. Maybe I am being "shadow banned", and I just think that I am talking to people. Right now since page 14, I don't have the "like" option in my posts.

There is no like option for your own post. What's the point of approving your own statement?

 

[Timtofly]

Prior to the first appearance of Jesus, the nation of Israel was indeed the KoG on earth. But now that the KoG of was taken from them, and given to the Born Again Saints (1 Peter 2:9), that covenant with God and Israel, as a nation under God, is null and void, ever since Jesus' Crucifixion.
The signification for that, was revealed when the temple veil was torn in two from top to bottom. Matthew 27:50-51.

The kingdom was never on earth. Not sure why you think it was once on earth, but now is not. The responsibility to bring the message of the kingdom was given to Israel as well as the church. The church is near to being as corrupt as Israel was and has at some times been even more corrupt than Israel was. Look at the 7 types of churches in Revelation. Some could not handle the responsibility either. Sometimes that responsibility is removed and given to others. Even the church is not immune to God removing the responsibility from some and given that responsibility to others.

 

[Keraz]

The kingdom was never on earth.

We faithful Christians are the spiritual Kingdom of God on earth now. Luke 17:20-21
But when Jesus Returns, the physical Kingdom will be here.

The established Church does not constitute the Kingdom. spiritually or physically. Only individual believers do, at present; still scattered among the nations, but soon to be gathered into all of the holy Land, as the prophesies tell us. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26

 

[Earburner]

There is no like option for your own post. What's the point of approving your own statement?

I previously addressed that as an error on my part, of overlooking that which I already understood. It was a product of my own mis-speaking.