Christians are not sinners

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robert derrick

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Of course it is! That's why Jesus came.

Much love!
"Is it possible to do so today. Can any Christian be doing that today."

You agree with the first question, it is possible.

So, what of the second question? Are you doing so? Do you know any Christians doing so? Do you believe any Christians on earth are doing so?
 

robert derrick

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There is no "requirement" that Christians commit sins. Who thinks that way?

We've been freed from sin being crucified with Christ, and the prevalence of sin in the minds and hearts and actions of God's people evidences the lack of faith in our freedom from sin, typically incited by legalistic thinking and living.

When we understand that we are no longer condemned for sin, we trust God freely, standing in His grace, walking in His Spirit, doing His works.

Much love!
There is no "requirement" that Christians commit sins. Who thinks that way?

OSAS Christian sinners.

They believe it is inevitable to commit sins again as Christians, and it is impossible to cease from doing so on earth, then sin is made a required inevitability.

No only are all Christians required to commit sins like themselves, but we all must also openly confess being sinners like themselves, else we be accused of pride and decieved 'sinlessness'.

It's the rite of passage for OSAS Christian sinner fellowship.

the prevalence of sin in the minds and hearts and actions of God's people evidences the lack of faith in our freedom from sin,

Which unbelief is also of a lack of power of God for themselves to change it within the heart, that their bodily deeds may be clean also.

typically incited by legalistic thinking and living.

That is of course false.

The 'legalist' Pharisees are them that openly condemn any kind of sinning, while seeking to pursue righteousness of the law without cleansing within the heart first.

It is the OSAS Christians sinners that openly declare their continued sinfulness and trespasses without shame.

When we understand that we are no longer condemned for sin, we trust God freely, standing in His grace, walking in His Spirit, doing His works.

This doesn't ring exactly true to me. There is something off about it.

Are you saying that there is no more condemnation for any Christian, even if the go on to commit sins and trespasses?

At the time of our trespassing, we are no longer condemned as trespassers of the world?

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

We understand there is no more condemnation for them that have purified their hearts of double mindedness by the law of the Spirit, so that they no longer walk after the flesh, but only after the Spirit.

First the obedience to the faith, then no condemnation for walking in sins and trespasses.
 

robert derrick

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I don't think you are understanding me.

I see all of human behavior and thought as arising from one of two sources, either the fleshy life of a man, or the spiritual life of a man who is reborn. That which arises from the fleshy life is sin, and that which arises from the spiritual life is not.

Flesh, or spirit.

I'm not talking about hitting your thumb with a nail, that's a mistake. But cursing because of it is sin. Railing in your mind against that happening is sin.

The one who is only fleshy cannot please God, remaining forever hostile to God. The one who walks in the Spirit does not do the works of the flesh. Works of the Spirit = works of righteousness, works of the flesh = sin. The flesh serves itself.

Much love!
Yes, I understand you and agree with the difference between souls that sin and the common mistakes of all mortal human beings, which is what I wrote.

I only disagree with your definition of being 'sinlesss' as coming short of the glory of God.

I'm not talking about tripping over a stone. Just to be clear.

I am in my definition of sinlessness in this life vs being perfected in the resurrection.

Since you offer no correction to my definition, as I offered for yours, then I'll keep mine.

Thanks anyway.
 

robert derrick

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Scriptural sinlessness MUST be not doing what Scripture calls sin. If you know the good to do and don't do it, that is sin. All that is not of faith is sin.

Walking to the store outside of trusting in Jesus is, according to God's Own definition, it is sin. We are to live entirely in faith and love, entirely!

ALL that is not of faith . . . ANY good left undone . . . These are sin. We can attempt to redefine sin according to our own ideas, "breaking one of the big 10", or what have you, but God leaves no stone unturned. All that is not of faith, Any good undone.

So let's not minimize what is and isn't sin. If you do something outside of faith and love, or you fail to act from faith and love, that is sin.

It's one thing to carry a list of rule in your mind and congratulate yourself for adhering to it, but it's fully another to live out faith and love at all times.

The one man says, I fail to maintain my trust and love at all times, so, Yes, I commit sins. Another man says, I don't murder, I don't steal, so No, I'm sinless.

Much love!
The one man says, I fail to maintain my trust and love at all times, so, Yes, I commit sins. Another man says, I don't murder, I don't steal, so No, I'm sinless.

Agreed.

Sin begins in the heart as lust and vain imagination for sins of the world.

The first is one failing to keep the faith and love of God with all the heart at all times.

The second is the one failing to have the faith and love of God in the heart at all, and seeks righteousness of his own.

There is also the third: them that do keep the faith and love of God in the heart to do His righteousness at all times, which is the righteous holy and blameless living commanded and witnessed to in Scripture.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe.


These are the sinless saints, that are no longer sinful in life, no more committing old sins and trespasses any time.

They are not perfected, and so still have sin and temptation of the world ever to endure and overcome, until the end with resurrection of the blessed.

Not being perfected in spiritual body, they do still make the common mistakes of all flesh on earth, which includes animals, such as them that walk into slime pits and perish.
 

marks

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"Is it possible to do so today. Can any Christian be doing that today."

You agree with the first question, it is possible.

So, what of the second question? Are you doing so? Do you know any Christians doing so? Do you believe any Christians on earth are doing so?
They are both the same question in my mind.

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Jesus is the judge of how well we are living a sanctified life. I don't think we are the qualified judge to really know for certain whether this feeling we may have, for instance, is righteous anger or petty vindictiveness masquerading as righteous anger. Or whatever it is. People are masters of self-deception.

I don't think we have the same concept of what sin is. I've defined sin as not doing anything that you know you should do, and doing anything that is not from faith in Christ, and all that does not measure up to God's glory. Do you share that definition? What is sin? How do you defined sin?

As far as, "is any Christian living a sanctified life today", I'm thinking the answer is, yes, more and more, day by day, for all who are true.

And those who think they've arrived at a fully sanctified existance, I just counsel to not really be judging yourself that way, just keep your eyes on Jesus knowing He will be the One to guide you through such questions.

Much love!
 
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robert derrick

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@robert derrick would you say you are sinless in this life now walking with God and Jesus Christ?

when you do sin you repent, and then you are sinless again until the next time you sin?

How does the process work in your idea of how “Christians are not sinners”?

Would you be willing to explain it to me?

I have heard it stressed by people in faith of Christ to be perfect, in the sense of never make a mistake period.

That would be such a hard thing to live and do by ones own efforts but with God all things are possible right?

Even despite what the Bible may say is possible or is allowable.

I would like to hear your thoughts,
Thank you in Christ,
Matthew Gallagher
I would like to hear your thoughts,Thank you in Christ,

Since you ask so graciously, I am more than glad to do so with all I have. The question is if you will receive it to heart to do by Jesus' faith for yourself.

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

No man tells another to sell all they have, but we all ought tell one another to purify our hearts and walk perfectly before our Lord according to the commandment of Scripture.

would you say you are sinless in this life now walking with God and Jesus Christ?


Now today, yes. So far. Yesterday, yes. Tomorrow with take care for itself. Sufficient for today is the evil thereof.

when you do sin you repent, and then you are sinless again until the next time you sin?

And so, you see the first correction needed for us to do the word as written:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin...

Not when, but if, and only after being commanded not to do so.

I have learned to never ever ever not take God's word seriously, and so gloss over His Scripture as written. Ever.

'When we sin' is false and against God, the blood of His Son, His salvation and justification, and His written word.

I lived for decades seeking to do His righteousness, but until I took the Scripture seriously to purify my heart with His power, and to cast down all thought for sin from my mind, I was seeking to do His will and love my neighbor as by law, and not by faith and love from a pure heart.

I was sincerely seeking to obey the second great commandment, without first obeying the first: washing within our platter first, that the outside may also come clean in deed and in truth. Until then, while being baptized and anointed with oil of the Holy Ghost, with daily spiritual experience and revelation of Scripture, I was doing so with half a heart for lust, and double mind to serve Him.

I was doing so partly by power of my own will. Which any man can do with things of this life. I have known soldiers who lived 'perfectly' without drink nor brawling nor thefts etc... in order to perfect their bodies and their warfare. Professionals do so in many things for a corruptible crown, be we do so in all things for incorruptible.

If I do commit another sin of old, which is unrighteous transgression of the law of Christ, then if God draws me back to confess and repent, I will be forgiven of it and go on back to where I am now, as though I had not, yet still remembering it as warning for the future.

I have heard it stressed by people in faith of Christ to be perfect,

To become sons of God by the power given to us through the faith Jesus, we are to be made perfect in the fear of the Lord to obey Him always, even as the Son did in the days of His flesh. He is the forerunner and example of how to live for God in this life, that we may attain to the resurrection of the body at the end.

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

That is in this life, and not only in the resurrection, else how can the world know it, but by seeing it as eyewitnesses of the truth for themselves?

in the sense of never make a mistake period.

Properly, it would be not making mistakes, because no man of flesh of Adam can say they never committed sin nor made mistake.

I have known these perfectionists, and their pursuit of it became pride of heart with great harm to themselves, as well as others believing on them for leadership, including myself.

Being sinless is simply the opposite of being sinful, which is clearly what Scripture commands and bears witness to in this life.

Being a perfectionist Christian with no sin and no mistakes, is not me. I do believe it is certainly possible in this life based upon Scripture:

For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

I also believe there are those who have lived so at some point in their lives, beginning with Adam before the transgression, and also with Abraham towards the end of his life on earth:

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


We can limit the common mistakes of all people on earth, by hearkening to the common wisdom of the Spirit that cries out in the streets to all men, which I personally seek to do, and have some measure of victory in it.

I believe any Christian can experience being a perfectionist, which many successful people of the world also seek, but then to think they have 'arrived' is the pride of their fall.

Jesus of course committed no sin, nor made any mistake of anything, whether in mind or body.

But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

Jesus is the only man who ever lived sinless and mistakeless from beginning to end.

That would be such a hard thing to live and do by ones own efforts but with God all things are possible right?

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Only the way of the transgressor is hard, which is to seek to do anything to please God in the flesh, without first loving Him with all the heart purified by His power from lust and vain thoughts for sins of the world:

I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.

Even despite what the Bible may say is possible or is allowable.

No despite nor exception to it, as you said: All things are possible with God, and nothing is impossible with God.

The only thing not allowed by God in this life is sin. He does allow for mistakes of being human:

For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.

I believe the major stumbling block of the devil for any sincere-hearted Christian, is the false doctrine of 'fallibility' pertaining to sins and trespasses, based upon the lie that 'sinlessness' is 'having no sin'.

All believers that would become sons of God in this life, are clearly commanded in Scripture of Old and New testaments to not be sinful, cease from committing sins, sin no more, do His righteousness at all times, live blamelessly and holily today, while the day is. walk not after the flesh but only after the Spirit...

Not being sinful is being sinless. There is no in between with God, but only with carnal minded man.

Having no sin is only at the resurrection, where we no longer have any sin of the world to fioght against and overcome: the promised spiritual body in the likeness of Christ's resurrected body is given only to them that obey Him to do His word according to Scripture written by His prophets and apostles.

Christians willing to believe anything other than what is written for us to believe and obey, and do it as unto God, will fail to attain to the resurrection of them that only obey Jesus, and will hearken to no voice of any stranger.

We should not be decieved by Christian idealists, who will acknowledge what is written, and even say it is possible, but in theory only, and cannot be possibly done today in dead and in truth.
 

marks

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When we understand that we are no longer condemned for sin, we trust God freely, standing in His grace, walking in His Spirit, doing His works.

This doesn't ring exactly true to me. There is something off about it.

Romans 4:23-5:2 KJV
23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We have peace with God through faith in Jesus, and also by faith in Jesus we have access into this grace wherein we stand. We stand in God's grace, and we access this grace by faith in Jesus, in the efficacy of His death and resurrection.

Romans 7:4-6 KJV
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The motions of sin working in our members is "by the Law", that is, Law, legalistic living, that is, living according to the life/death requirement of rightousness causes the "motions of sins" to "work in our members". This idea that we may yet be condemned for our sins actually causes sin to be provoked within us.

Romans 7:7-8 KJV
7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Romans 7:13 KJV
13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Romans 7:22-25 KJV
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This passage gives us the bottom line understanding of sin and righteousness in the Christian. The flesh body is corrupted by sin, and operates sinfully. The inward man - the new creature, the spirit child of God - lives according to the law of God. The flesh lives according to the law of sin.

Romans 7:13 KJV
13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The commandment is to make sin exceedingly sinful, that is, no downplaying it, no denying it, just, absolutely sinful sin.

Romans 5:20 KJV
20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Law causes sin to increase. Because it provokes the flesh, because the flesh is God's enemy.

Romans 8:6-7 KJV
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So when you give the flesh the commandment of God, that becomes the target of rebellion, producing all manner if sinfulness.

1 Timothy 1:5 KJV
5) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

The commandment ends when love comes. Love, a good conscience, and real faith.

1 Timothy 1:9 KJV
9) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

If we try to serve Law, or to judge ourselves according to Law, to conform ourselves to our perceptions and understandings of Law, we put ourselves in the place of the ungodly, our flesh being provoked to sin, and we've put ourselves in the wrong fight.

Romans 7:4 KJV
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Because that's the way Law works, God removed us from that life, giving us a different life with different governing principles.

Romans 8:1-4 KJV
1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Works of Law will never make us righteous because we disqualify ourselves by disobedience, and all disobey. Righteousness is lost.

We are set free from that law of sin and death. Law condemns sin, but also provokes sin, and therefore kills us. Jesus satisfies the Law on our behalf, and removes us from under that system.

Now, instead of "sin and death", our governing principle is "the spirit of life in Christ Jesus". There is no condemnation because we are reconciled to God, have received that reconciliation, and have been rebirthed from God Himself, sharing His nature, just as we used to share Adam's nature. And of course physically we still do share Adam's nature, and that's where the trouble lies.

If you've read this far, I commend and thank you, just a little bit more.

1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 KJV
12) And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
13) To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Love, increasing and abounding in love, this is how we are established unblameable in holiness before God.

1 John 4:16-19 KJV
16) And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17) Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18) There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19) We love him, because he first loved us.

Jude 1:20-21 KJV
20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21) Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Trusting that Jesus really did take away my sin, really did forgive me, really did recreate me, really did come to live with me, really will never leave me, This is the meaning in Galatians,

Galatians 3:1-5 KJV
1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3) Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4) Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5) He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ministering by the Spirit, working miracles, this is not the outcome of legalistic living, it is by the "hearing of faith".

Galatians 5:18 KJV
18) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 6:13-16 KJV
13) For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Much love!
 
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marks

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These are the sinless saints, that are no longer sinful in life, no more committing old sins and trespasses any time.

They are not perfected, and so still have sin and temptation of the world ever to endure and overcome, until the end with resurrection of the blessed.

These seem contradictory to me.

And just to be clear, I don't consider sinlessness to be something impossible for a man to be, only, I don't find that to be portrayed in the Bible as being something that will be a reality for anyone who yet lives in flesh, and I don't think I've come across anyone in my life of whom I would think this was so.

Much love!
 

marks

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and the common mistakes of all mortal human beings
I don't know why you keep talking about "common mistakes", I'm not talking about miscalculating a sum, or stubbing your toe. I'm talking about thoughts entertained and actions done that have the flesh as their source.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus hit His thumb with a hammer as He was growing up, but I don't expect He'd curse the hammer, or feel outraged over "the injustice of it all", or impatient, or snap at His mother, or things that people often do.

It makes me wonder whether there is some idea of sin that you ascribe to "mistakes". That's not what you mean, right?

Much love!
 

marks

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based upon the lie that 'sinlessness' is 'having no sin'.

If I'm penniless, I have no pennies. If I'm powerless, I have no power. If I'm sinless, I have no _____ . What?

I don't understand your definition that sinless doesn't mean having no sin.

Much love!
 

marks

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Romans 7:16-20 KJV
16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Where does sin live?

Much love!
 

Robert Gwin

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Then it appears that all you need to do is grow to maturity all the fruit of the Spirit so you will never stumble 2 Peter 1:10-11 referring to 5-7

Christians all have a starting point, most of us grow spiritually, and there is a point where we are considered to be spiritually mature, however even at that point we are still spiritual babes. Scientists say we use a minute amount of our brains, most likely when the Kingdom comes our learning capabilities will dramatically increase to where we will be able to be equal to Adam, a perfect human by the end of the millennial reign of Christ. Will our learning stop there? Very unlikely, God has always educated His people, and Ecc 3:11 sheds light that we will continue learning for an eternity, however, we will never be able to match Jehovah in His infinite wisdom. I am sure looking forward to the day that my brain works for sure maam!Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most ;)
 

1stCenturyLady

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Christians all have a starting point, most of us grow spiritually, and there is a point where we are considered to be spiritually mature, however even at that point we are still spiritual babes. Scientists say we use a minute amount of our brains, most likely when the Kingdom comes our learning capabilities will dramatically increase to where we will be able to be equal to Adam, a perfect human by the end of the millennial reign of Christ. Will our learning stop there? Very unlikely, God has always educated His people, and Ecc 3:11 sheds light that we will continue learning for an eternity, however, we will never be able to match Jehovah in His infinite wisdom. I am sure looking forward to the day that my brain works for sure maam!Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most ;)

When the laws of God are written on our hearts in this New Covenant, the heart is our conscience. We need to never go against our conscience that has been super-sensitized by the laws of God. But still we are at first babes. But we grow in knowledge, we don't remain babes.

1 John 3:21-24
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Philippians 3:16
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.

Robert, I remember when I was first filled with the Holy Spirit 45 years ago and could hear God's voice clearly and had no desire to sin (according to my Spirit-filled conscience). But even though I had all of the Holy Spirit in me, He didn't release all of His power. I can now look back and see where I sinned, but it wasn't going against my conscience, it was unintentional, but the amazing thing is I could still hear God's voice and He didn't interact with me differently. Our intentions is what God looks at. That is our faith. Unintentional sins are sin not unto death; but willful deliberate sins in full knowledge of their lawlessness are sins unto death. 1 John 5:16-17

Now, of course, I have matured in God and have been given a new level of obedience.
 

robert derrick

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Yes. Your example of husbands And wives...
And a man and God...
Faith...when WITH only One WITH ONE.
* Faith-FULL...when a husband & wife By their “own power” remains only One WITH One.
* Faith-FULL...when a man REMAINS Faith-FULL to God By, Through, Of “Gods POWER”...
with-“IN” the man....That Power, IS Christ.
^ ie Converted...can never Fall Away From Faith-Fullness...ie OSAS
* A man Having Faith, By His Own Power to keep his faith, one man WITH One God is also (Vulnerable to the influence of World Evil and Wickedness)...and kept having Faith to God By His Own Power....<WITH> God...CAN fall away....
^ * Tasting...the Word of God
Until IF and When that man Becomes Made Converted....BY the mans Heartful Confession and Gods Works....Made and Kept<WITH and IN>By Gods Power...Can never fall away.
Eating...the Word of God
^ * Eating the Word of God



I do not see a problem.
I see men hearing, (enlightenment), following, believing, (Receiving Measures Of Faith), <- ie partaking of the Holy Spirit... then Deflecting AWAY from God. And multiple Warnings, OF Cunning Evil spirits AND wicked men OF the world, Whose Agenda is precisely TO convince the World Population, there IS no God.
Paying Attention:
Remove God from Homes, From Schools, From Society, From Governing Authorities; precisely From the Ears Of young children...
Generation after Generation.
* We use to Seat Governing Authority SERVANTS in such positions who Were Godly...and Now? The Trend is to Seat “Dictatorial so called LEADERS”...who proclaim Themselves with Cunning Flowery Words, THE “Saviors and Safety Keepers OF the World”.

Heb 6:
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Rom 5:
[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
[11] And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
[14] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[15] But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[16] And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
[19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
[20] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
[21] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Glory to God,
Taken
Since you don't provide an example of Scripture making difference between partaking and 'fully' partaking, then I'll stick with there being no difference in Scripture between partaking in anything, whether it be of the divine nature of God or of the sins of the world:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


But, thanks for your time anyway.
 

robert derrick

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These seem contradictory to me.

And just to be clear, I don't consider sinlessness to be something impossible for a man to be, only, I don't find that to be portrayed in the Bible as being something that will be a reality for anyone who yet lives in flesh, and I don't think I've come across anyone in my life of whom I would think this was so.

Much love!

And just to be clear, I don't consider sinlessness to be something impossible for a man to be, only, I don't find that to be portrayed in the Bible as being something that will be a reality for anyone who yet lives in flesh.

We can't possibly believe something is both possible to do in this life, and yet not possible to do 'in reality'.

You are an idealist Christian afterall.

You don't 'really' believe it is possible to do the word as written, except in theory only.

Your faith in the word of God to do it is theoretical only.

Faith alone, being dead, would also be called faith in theory only.

God is not an unjust judge to command His people to do what they cannot possibly do.

No wonder there is no judgment upon ideal Christian sinners, when they continue to commit sins against God, because they do not believe they can possibly obey Him as commanded in Scripture, and therefore cannot possibly be judged for disobeying Him contrary to the Scripture.

and I don't think I've come across anyone in my life of whom I would think this was so.

And naturally you base your theory about Christian living upon yourself and others around you.

And so you judge all Christians according to yourself.

It really isn't wise to read and judge Scripture with ourselves and others as our guiding light for doing it or not.

When we stop thinking of Scripture as a bright idea only, but as it is: the commandment of God to His people to obey, then we may begin to do so and cease justifying our continued sinfulness.
 
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marks

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We can't possibly believe something is both possible to do in this life, and yet not possible to do 'in reality'.

You are an idealist Christian afterall.
You are reworking what I'm saying into something else. I've never said not possible, not once!

You don't 'really' believe it is possible to do the word as written, except in theory only.
Since you outright reject the sincerity of my statements . . . what more is there to say? you have your ideas of me, and you prefer them apparently. So it goes.

Much love!
 

Robert Gwin

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When the laws of God are written on our hearts in this New Covenant, the heart is our conscience. We need to never go against our conscience that has been super-sensitized by the laws of God. But still we are at first babes. But we grow in knowledge, we don't remain babes.

1 John 3:21-24
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Philippians 3:16
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.

Robert, I remember when I was first filled with the Holy Spirit 45 years ago and could hear God's voice clearly and had no desire to sin (according to my Spirit-filled conscience). But even though I had all of the Holy Spirit in me, He didn't release all of His power. I can now look back and see where I sinned, but it wasn't going against my conscience, it was unintentional, but the amazing thing is I could still hear God's voice and He didn't interact with me differently. Our intentions is what God looks at. That is our faith. Unintentional sins are sin not unto death; but willful deliberate sins in full knowledge of their lawlessness are sins unto death. 1 John 5:16-17

Now, of course, I have matured in God and have been given a new level of obedience.

Our hearts are very deceptive, when we rely and lean upon our own understanding rather than to the faithful slave, we are basically rejecting the arrangement of God and following our own religion maam.