Were the Church Fathers Sent by God?

[Philip James]

As long as Christians continue to condemn each other to damnation, they will never see the greatness of the mystery of the one body that God revealed for the first time to Paul.

What garbage,

Paul's Gospel, is the very same Gospel Jesus spent years preparing the Apostles to announce.. St. Paul would be horrified at your misguided attempt to divide the body...

one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;

one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.


And speaking of the Divine Mysteries, here is Paul testifying that he received this from Jesus:

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,

and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.

Peace be with you!

 

[David in NJ]

My mystery? The only mystery I mentioned is the one that is in the verses I quoted.

Rom 16:25,

Now to him that is able to stablish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal,
​

It's not my gospel that will establish anyone according to the revelation of the mystery. That would be Paul's gospel.

Col 1:25-27,

25 whereof I was made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which was given me to you-ward, to fulfill the word of God,

26 even the mystery which hath been hid from all ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints,

27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
​

I didn't keep the mystery hid in the past, nor did I reveal it in this age. It was God's doing.

Eph 3:2-3,

2 if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;

3 how that by revelation was made known unto me the mystery, as I wrote afore in few words,​

God didn't reveal the mystery to me. He revealed it to Paul

Eph 3:9,

and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which from all ages hath been hid in God who created all things;​

The mystery wasn't hid in me. It was hid in God.

My mystery? No. I could never have dreamed up something as earth shattering as that. Only God had the brilliance to do such a thing.

You might want to revisit 1 Cor chapters 1 & 2 to see why they didn't get it.

All these scriptures are truth and do not support your mystery or the separation of Jew from Gentile.

Paul preached the SAME Gospel that God preached in Genesis.

 

[David in NJ]

What garbage,

Paul's Gospel, is the very same Gospel Jesus spent years preparing the Apostles to announce.. St. Paul would be horrified at your misguided attempt to divide the body...

one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;

one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.


And speaking of the Divine Mysteries, here is Paul testifying that he received this from Jesus:

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,

and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.

Peace be with you!

AMEN AMEN AMEN

 

[Philip James]

i was born and raised as RC

Paul was not establishing 'church fathers' here, as has been endorsed by RCC.

JESUS said: Call no man rabbi or father for One is your Teacher and One is your Father.

Hello David,

And yet Paul here calls himself a father to the Corinthians..

Is this a contradiction? Or are you confusing the letter of Jesus' prohobition with the spirit?

To call a man father, rabbi, teacher, doctor.. Is it the words themselves that are the issue, or the recognition that God is above all these? Is it wrong for me to call my biological father, father?

What then lf honour thy father?

No, it is when people follow the cult of a person other than God, that give credit to some man, the place of God in their hearts that there is a problem..

Peace be with you!

 

[David in NJ]

Hello David,

And yet Paul here calls himself a father to the Corinthians..

Is this a contradiction? Or are you confusing the letter of Jesus' prohobition with the spirit?

To call a man father, rabbi, teacher, doctor.. Is it the words themselves that are the issue, or the recognition that God is above all these? Is it wrong for me to call my biological father, father?

What then lf honour thy father?

No, it is when people follow the cult of a person other than God, that give credit to some man, the place of God in their hearts that there is a problem..

Peace be with you!

Jesus made a clear distinction between HIS Creation of biological respect to = "Honor your father and mother"
and
Call no man father or rabbi for ONE is your Father and Teacher in Heaven above.

No earthbound,born in sin, man can be our Mediator between God and man but ONE = Jesus the Christ our Chief Apostle and High Priest.

What JESUS did give to us are these: Ephesians ch4
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”

(Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Strong's Concordance definition of Apostle:

G652 ἀπόστολος apostolos (a-po'-sto-los) n.
1. a delegate.
2. (specially) an ambassador of the Gospel.
3. (officially) a commissioner of Christ, “apostle” (with miraculous powers).​

Paul said many times that he was an apostle sent by God.

1 Cor 1:1,

Paul, [a] called apostle of Jesus Christ, by God's will, and Sosthenes the brother,
​

2 Cor 1:1,

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
​

Gal 1:1,

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
​

There's more places where he unambiguously claims to be sent by God.

Do any of the Church Fathers make the same claim? References would be most helpful.

Thanks! :)

All believers are sent by god as ambassadors in this alien world we are called to labor in, thus in that sense we are all apostolos or sent ones.

However the office of the Apostle was a specific charge given to just a few men. they were the master builders of the church and to whom Jesus imparted the rules for the church to live throughout the centuries until He calls us home.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus made a clear distinction between HIS Creation of biological respect to = "Honor your father and mother"
and
Call no man father or rabbi for ONE is your Father and Teacher in Heaven above.

No earthbound,born in sin, man can be our Mediator between God and man but ONE = Jesus the Christ our Chief Apostle and High Priest.

What JESUS did give to us are these: Ephesians ch4
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”

(Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

 

[David in NJ]

Hello David,

And yet Paul here calls himself a father to the Corinthians..

Is this a contradiction? Or are you confusing the letter of Jesus' prohobition with the spirit?

To call a man father, rabbi, teacher, doctor.. Is it the words themselves that are the issue, or the recognition that God is above all these? Is it wrong for me to call my biological father, father?

What then lf honour thy father?

No, it is when people follow the cult of a person other than God, that give credit to some man, the place of God in their hearts that there is a problem..

Peace be with you!

YES - AGREE - AMEN

and Peace of Christ be you as well - amen

 

[Philip James]

No earthbound,born in sin, man can be our Mediator between God and man but ONE = Jesus the Christ our Chief Apostle and High Priest.

Agreed!

Peace be with you!

 

[amigo de christo]

I forgot about Barnabas. I think it fair to say Barnabas, like Paul, never contradicted the scriptures as did the Church Fathers.

Thanks for the reminder!

Yes trust in what is written in the bible . I have seen many claim to be an apostel only to find out
they too contradict the scriptures .
Remember what was said in revelation . YE have TRIED them which SAY they are apostels and have FOUND them LIARS .
That is what i found when i studied the apostolic tradition of the CC . They contradicted the original apostels in that bible .
THUS i found them liars . Wont heed them and i suggest none of us do either .
Let us learn well the scriptures and test ALL men .

 

[Rich R]

What garbage,

Paul's Gospel, is the very same Gospel Jesus spent years preparing the Apostles to announce.. St. Paul would be horrified at your misguided attempt to divide the body...

Whoa there guy! Relax. Take a deep breath. I didn't write Romans, Ephesians, or Colossians.

Rom 16:25,

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
​

God didn't give me this gospel. He gave it to Paul. Nor did I keep a secret from the beginning of the world. That would be God also.

Eph 3:1-5,

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me (Paul) to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me (Paul) the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my (Paul) knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
​

I didn't give Paul a dispensation of grace, or the mystery. I didn't keep those in the past from knowing about it. Nor did I reveal it now.
That was all God's work.

Col 1:25-26,

25 Whereof I (Paul talking, not Jesus) am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
​

I didn't say the mystery was hid in the past ages, that it is only now, in the current dispensation, that it's been made known.

Honestly, I'm rather shocked that so many Christians don't seem to care what the scripture so plainly declare.

If this is garbage, it's not my garbage. It'd be God's garbage. That being the case, you might want to take some time and rethink your assertion about it being garbage. I certainly would!

 

[Rich R]

All these scriptures are truth and do not support your mystery or the separation of Jew from Gentile.

Paul preached the SAME Gospel that God preached in Genesis.

Why do you keep saying it's my mystery? Have you taken the time to read the verses I quoted? How do they not say Paul was given information that had not been known until God gave it to Paul. Please, be specific, use the scriptures to state your position.

Don't let yourself get thrown off kilter just because this is something that apparently your priest or pastor has never taught you. Look at the actual words in the scriptures. The truth is found in them.

 

[Rich R]

Yes trust in what is written in the bible . I have seen many claim to be an apostel only to find out
they too contradict the scriptures .
Remember what was said in revelation . YE have TRIED them which SAY they are apostels and have FOUND them LIARS .
That is what i found when i studied the apostolic tradition of the CC . They contradicted the original apostels in that bible .
THUS i found them liars . Wont heed them and i suggest none of us do either .
Let us learn well the scriptures and test ALL men .

Yes, but unfortunately there seem to be many Christians who are comfortable with tradition and are not willing to do the work of rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). I'm always surprised at the apparent lack of respect for God's word by too many Christians.

 

[Philip James]

as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Yep, same gospel. The Gospel that Paul shared with them, same Gospel, same mystery revealed to His apostles, and shared everywhere!

Come and be united with HIM!

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[David in NJ]

Why do you keep saying it's my mystery? Have you taken the time to read the verses I quoted? How do they not say Paul was given information that had not been known until God gave it to Paul. Please, be specific, use the scriptures to state your position.

Don't let yourself get thrown off kilter just because this is something that apparently your priest or pastor has never taught you. Look at the actual words in the scriptures. The truth is found in them.

Brother, I have thoroughly read the Gospels, the Apostles Letters and Revelation, as well most of the OT books.

Agree - Truth is found in the Scriptures.

Paul's gospel is the same as Marks, Matthews, Lukes and John = with each Apostle giving their special view.

The SAME gospel = the only begotten Son of God, foretold since Genesis, came in the flesh, born of a virgin, of the seed of Abraham and David, preaching the Kingdom of God, healing the sick, casting out demons, opening the eyes of the blind, raising the dead, choosing the Twelve, sending forth the 70, betrayed by Judas to the Jewish Elders and High Priest, mock trial, condemned by the Jews and handed over to the Roman authority, beaten and whipped beyond recognition, carrying His cross, nailed to His Cross, died on the cross, buried, stone rolled away and HIS RESURRECTION.

Never take one verse and build a doctrine off of it. The Scripture cannot lie. All Scripture is in harmony with itself.

There is One Gospel, One Christ/Messiah/Savior, One Body = His Body, One Bride = His Bride, One Church = His Church.

The Gospel is to the Jew first but also to the Gentile = SAME Gospel for the Jew as for the Gentile.

Jew and Gentile together in CHRIST = Mystery of the ages revealed from Genesis to Revelation.

Believe ALL the Scripture and Study and Pray for the Promise of the Father which was spoken in the Gospel for all who believe.

Peace

 

[David in NJ]

Yep, same gospel. The Gospel that Paul shared with them, same Gospel, same mystery revealed to His apostles, and shared everywhere!

Come and be united with HIM!

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

And never let anyone convince you of another gospel.

 

[Rich R]

Yep, same gospel. The Gospel that Paul shared with them, same Gospel, same mystery revealed to His apostles, and shared everywhere!

Come and be united with HIM!

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Thanks and peace to you also brother!

 

[amigo de christo]

And never let anyone convince you of another gospel.

Exactly my friend . Let none follow another gospel or another jesus . Learn those bibles well .

 

[David in NJ]

Exactly my friend . Let none follow another gospel or another jesus . Learn those bibles well .

Is it not surprising that those who believe Paul had his own separate gospel, had this to say about that bad idea:

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Notice Paul says 'we'. Who are the 'we'? but the other Apostles preaching the same Gospel of Christ.

So the Apostle Paul preached the same Gospel along with the other Apostles Peter, John, Mark, Matthew, etc

 

[amigo de christo]

Is it not surprising that those who believe Paul had his own separate gospel, had this to say about that bad idea:

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Notice Paul says 'we'. Who are the 'we'? but the other Apostles preaching the same Gospel of Christ.

So the Apostle Paul preached the same Gospel along with the other Apostles Peter, John, Mark, Matthew, etc

Yes indeed . It was and is only ONE gospel my friend . Not two . ONE . Yes indeed my friend .
The gospel for both the jew and the gentile is THE SAME . Now let all praise the glorious Lord .