Change On The Last Trump

[Davy]

Brethren in Christ, do NOT be deceived by the old doctrines of Judaism about our physical and spiritual makeup that God created us with. Their doctrines involve a dependency upon flesh, and omit teaching about the "spiritual body" of Apostle Paul.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul explained what type... of body the resurrection will be. He taught that it will be a "spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15:42-50). And he taught that is the type body also those still alive on earth when Jesus comes, will be changed into.

A little later in that same 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter, Apostle Paul taught that on the "last trump" (the 7th Trumpet of Revelation 11), we shall be "changed"...

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

Now it is most often taught in today's Churches that when Paul said, "but we shall all be changed", that he was speaking only... about those of Christ's Church. But their idea simply is not so. Paul was actually pointing to ALL PEOPLES still alive on earth on that day of Christ's future return. ALL those still alive on earth will be changed, at the twinkling of an eye, at an instant, suddenly.

Maybe Paul doesn't seem clear on that point that all alive are changed on that day, you might say? A little later though, but in Greek, Paul did clear that point up about the wicked still alive being changed to the "spiritual body" also.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

It's kind of amazing that Lord Jesus there taught that on the day of His 2nd coming ALL in the graves will come forth, i.e., be raised, and for those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and to those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation". Lot of brethren simply bypass this John 5:28-29 Scripture, no doubt because it conflicts with how they wrongly teach about the "dead" in Revelation 20:5 being about a later second resurrection.

The matter there with what Lord Jesus said is a fact though, i.e., the WICKED dead will have a resurrection also on the day of His future return! just not among those in Christ.

Since those of the "resurrection of damnation" will be raised from the dead also, what type of body will they have? Well, what type of body did Paul teach the resurrection is... per the 1 Corinthians 15 Scripture? A "spiritual body"? (1 Corinthians 15:42-50). YES! a "spiritual body".

Some will think, "But I thought the spiritual body meant Salvation in Jesus Christ?" Not so, there are TWO CHANGES one must go through to have Eternal Life in Christ Jesus, not just one. How so?

1 Cor 15:53-55
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, 'Death is swallowed up in victory.'
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
KJV

Count those changes in verse 53 between the "and". That is TWO CHANGES, one must go through to have Christ's Victory over death.

Will those of the "resurrection of damnation" have eternal Life? NO! What's the difference with them then?

Those of the "resurrection of damnation" will STILL BE SUBJECT TO THE "SECOND DEATH". What's that? The "second death" we are told in Revelation 20 is the casting into the future "lake of fire" after the future "thousand years".

Those 4 words in bold-underlined above is where Apostle Paul revealed that point:

1. "corruptible" (Greek phthartos - perishable, flesh) must put on...
2. "incorruption" (Greek aphthrsia - unending existence)
AND...
3. "this mortal" (Greek thnetos - liable to die) must put on...
4. "immortality" (Greek athanasia - deathlessness).

Those of the "resurrection of damnation" will go through the 1st change above ONLY. Their 'mortal' souls will still be in that thnetos liable to die condition of being thrown into the "lake of fire" later, called the "second death". But those in Christ will have put on immortality, their souls made immortal and never able to die.

Paul was actually pulling from Isaiah 25:6-10 about death being swallowed up in victory. That is where Paul was actually quoting from in 1 Corinthians 15:54. And here is one of the prophecies from that Isaiah 25 Scripture about this future change of all peoples on earth...

Isa 25:7
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
KJV

In relation to the idea of death being swallowed up in victory, which is with that Isaiah 25 Scripture where Paul was quoting, what do you think that "vail that is spread over all nations" and "face of the covering cast over all people", is about? It is about this present FLESH world, it ending with that "last trump" event with ALL peoples on earth being 'changed'.

I know, all that may seem a lot to take in, especially with all the FLESHY talkers in today's pulpits who don't really understand what the coming resurrection to the "spiritual body" is really about. Did you ever think that is why very few Churches ever cover about this change to the "spiritual body" that Paul taught? Yeah, it conflicts with what they are... teaching instead. And what's that? Most are falsely teaching that the resurrection is to a FLESH BODY, completely bypassing what Apostle Paul taught here in 1 Corinthians 15. And many congregations just ain't gonna' have it any other way, so it's not always the preacher's fault.

God said the following about the rebellious of His people back in Old Testament times, but it can still apply today to the rebellious among His Church too...

Isa 30:9-13
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
KJV

You know what that "breaking cometh suddenly at an instant" is referring to? It is referring to the LAST DAY of this present world when God's consuming fire and trembling of the earth will happen on that day, ending this present world.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Wow!!! God's Word is all truth!!! Read it and believe and ignore the ideas and opinions of little men!
A believers new eternal body will be very physical just like Jesus has now, we will eat and dink and be just as Jesus is!!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Brethren in Christ, do NOT be deceived by the old doctrines of Judaism about our physical and spiritual makeup that God created us with. Their doctrines involve a dependency upon flesh, and omit teaching about the "spiritual body" of Apostle Paul.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul explained what type... of body the resurrection will be. He taught that it will be a "spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15:42-50). And he taught that is the type body also those still alive on earth when Jesus comes, will be changed into.

A little later in that same 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter, Apostle Paul taught that on the "last trump" (the 7th Trumpet of Revelation 11), we shall be "changed"...

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

Now it is most often taught in today's Churches that when Paul said, "but we shall all be changed", that he was speaking only... about those of Christ's Church. But their idea simply is not so. Paul was actually pointing to ALL PEOPLES still alive on earth on that day of Christ's future return. ALL those still alive on earth will be changed, at the twinkling of an eye, at an instant, suddenly.

Maybe Paul doesn't seem clear on that point that all alive are changed on that day, you might say? A little later though, but in Greek, Paul did clear that point up about the wicked still alive being changed to the "spiritual body" also.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

It's kind of amazing that Lord Jesus there taught that on the day of His 2nd coming ALL in the graves will come forth, i.e., be raised, and for those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and to those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation". Lot of brethren simply bypass this John 5:28-29 Scripture, no doubt because it conflicts with how they wrongly teach about the "dead" in Revelation 20:5 being about a later second resurrection.

The matter there with what Lord Jesus said is a fact though, i.e., the WICKED dead will have a resurrection also on the day of His future return! just not among those in Christ.

Since those of the "resurrection of damnation" will be raised from the dead also, what type of body will they have? Well, what type of body did Paul teach the resurrection is... per the 1 Corinthians 15 Scripture? A "spiritual body"? (1 Corinthians 15:42-50). YES! a "spiritual body".

Some will think, "But I thought the spiritual body meant Salvation in Jesus Christ?" Not so, there are TWO CHANGES one must go through to have Eternal Life in Christ Jesus, not just one. How so?

1 Cor 15:53-55
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, 'Death is swallowed up in victory.'
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
KJV

Count those changes in verse 53 between the "and". That is TWO CHANGES, one must go through to have Christ's Victory over death.

Will those of the "resurrection of damnation" have eternal Life? NO! What's the difference with them then?

Those of the "resurrection of damnation" will STILL BE SUBJECT TO THE "SECOND DEATH". What's that? The "second death" we are told in Revelation 20 is the casting into the future "lake of fire" after the future "thousand years".

Those 4 words in bold-underlined above is where Apostle Paul revealed that point:

1. "corruptible" (Greek phthartos - perishable, flesh) must put on...
2. "incorruption" (Greek aphthrsia - unending existence)
AND...
3. "this mortal" (Greek thnetos - liable to die) must put on...
4. "immortality" (Greek athanasia - deathlessness).

Those of the "resurrection of damnation" will go through the 1st change above ONLY. Their 'mortal' souls will still be in that thnetos liable to die condition of being thrown into the "lake of fire" later, called the "second death". But those in Christ will have put on immortality, their souls made immortal and never able to die.

Paul was actually pulling from Isaiah 25:6-10 about death being swallowed up in victory. That is where Paul was actually quoting from in 1 Corinthians 15:54. And here is one of the prophecies from that Isaiah 25 Scripture about this future change of all peoples on earth...

Isa 25:7
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
KJV

In relation to the idea of death being swallowed up in victory, which is with that Isaiah 25 Scripture where Paul was quoting, what do you think that "vail that is spread over all nations" and "face of the covering cast over all people", is about? It is about this present FLESH world, it ending with that "last trump" event with ALL peoples on earth being 'changed'.

I know, all that may seem a lot to take in, especially with all the FLESHY talkers in today's pulpits who don't really understand what the coming resurrection to the "spiritual body" is really about. Did you ever think that is why very few Churches ever cover about this change to the "spiritual body" that Paul taught? Yeah, it conflicts with what they are... teaching instead. And what's that? Most are falsely teaching that the resurrection is to FLESH BODY, completely bypassing what Apostle Paul taught here in 1 Corinthians 15. And many congregations just ain't gonna' have it any other way, so it's not always the preacher's fault.

God said the following about the rebellious of His people back in Old Testament times, but it can still apply today to the rebellious among His Church too...

Isa 30:9-13
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
KJV

You know what that "breaking cometh suddenly at an instant" is referring to? It is referring to the LAST DAY of this present world when God's consuming fire and trembling of the earth will happen on that day, ending this present world.

First, you acknowledge that all of the dead will be resurrected and judged on the day Christ returns and then you try to say that the thousand years follows that. That makes no sense whatsoever and shows that no one can trust anything you're saying.

We all know that when we're changed we'll have a spiritual body since that's what it says in 1 Corinthians 15, so that isn't something anyone in their right mind is going to disagree about. Their might be disagreement with what the nature of that spiritual body will be like, but that's all. The idea that Paul was talking about unbelievers as well as believers in 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 is complete nonsense. That's like saying he was also referring to the resurrection of unbelievers rather than just believers in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23. His focus was entirely on believers in 1 Corinthians 15, not unbelievers.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Think!! It takes a real physical body to drink wine and eat fish as Jesus did and says He will again at His return.

 

[Keraz]

It's kind of amazing that Lord Jesus there taught that on the day of His 2nd coming ALL in the graves will come forth,

This idea is not supported by any prophecy about the glorious Return of Jesus. The ONLY people resurrected when He Returns will be the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4
ALL the rest remain in their graves until the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:5 & 11-15

You know what that "breaking cometh suddenly at an instant" is referring to? It is referring to the LAST DAY of this present world when God's consuming fire and trembling of the earth will happen on that day, ending this present world

The Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath is some years before the Return. Revelation 6:12-17
There is no mention of fire at the Return. Revelation 19:11-21
The final dissolution and making of the new heavens and earth, will happen after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7

It would be good for you and others here, to stick to what the Bible actually says, instead of making wild assertion's and false predictions.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Jude 1: 14
“Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones 15to execute judgment on the people of the world. He will convict every person of all the ungodly things they have done and for all the insults that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones now who might these holy ones be?
?? answer= the raptured believers!!!

 

[Keraz]

It is quite probable that the Lord sees the 'rapture to heaven' belief, as an insult to His saving power.
To His Promised protection to all His faithful people who: Call upon His Name and you will be saved.

 

[GISMYS_7]

It is quite probable that the Lord sees the 'rapture to heaven' belief, as an insult to His saving power.
To His Promised protection to all His faithful people who: Call upon His Name and you will be saved.

NO unbeliever will be raptured!!

 

[Davy]

This idea is not supported by any prophecy about the glorious Return of Jesus.

WRONG! You are leaving the Scriptures with your theory of that order of events.

On the LAST DAY of this present world, on the "day of the Lord", is the day Jesus returns to gather His Church.

That 'day' just so happens to occur on the latter part of the 6th Seal, the 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. The 7th Seal is a Sign of completeness. Thus Jesus comes on 777.

Just prior to His coming is the time of "great tribulation", the first part of the 6th Seal with the stars (Satan's host) cast down to earth with him for the great trib. That is the first part of the 6th Seal (the "untimely figs"), and 6th Trumpet period, and the 6th Vial period. 666.

God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth occurs on the SAME DAY as Christ's coming and gathering of His saints. And that is ON the "day of the Lord".

God's Old Testament prophets were given to write MUCH about the events on that future "day of the Lord". So anyone who denies those written Scripture is actually throwing a good portion of their Bible away, which is a terrible SIN.

 

[Davy]

Think!! It takes a real physical body to drink wine and eat fish as Jesus did and says He will again at His return.

No it doesn't.

The angels that went to Lot in Genesis 19 ate what Lot prepared for them, and they did not have flesh bodies. NO angel has a flesh body, for angels have the "image of the heavenly" that Apostle Paul linked to the "spiritual body".

Thus, you are teaching FALSENESS against The Word of God with your fleshy mind.

 

[Davy]

Jude 1: 14
“Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones 15to execute judgment on the people of the world. He will convict every person of all the ungodly things they have done and for all the insults that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones now who might these holy ones be?
?? answer= the raptured believers!!!

There is NO SUCH THING AS A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE written anywhere in God's Word. You make up LIES about that too, just like your false fleshy "spiritual body" thinking too!

 

[Davy]

It is quite probable that the Lord sees the 'rapture to heaven' belief, as an insult to His saving power.
To His Promised protection to all His faithful people who: Call upon His Name and you will be saved.

He does, and He pretty much said so in the Ezekiel 13 Chapter, where He said He is against those who teach His people to 'fly' to save their souls.

The fact that He put that in Ezekiel 13 as a warning to His chosen of the seed of Israel reveals they are not to succumb to such false doctrines as a pre-trib rapture theory at the end of this world. His warning there is to the ten tribes of Israel, and how they are to make a stand in the "day of the Lord", pointing to the great trib time at the end of this world...

Ezek 13:1-9
13 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, 'Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, 'The LORD saith:' and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, 'The LORD saith it'; albeit I have not spoken?

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

9 And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of My people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
KJV

And the specific FALSE DOCTRINE God reveals those false one's preach?

Ezek 13:19-20
19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
KJV

If I have to point it out, that... hunt the souls to make them fly is about the false Pre-trib Rapture theory taught by those fake preachers which God did not send.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Brethren in Christ, do NOT be deceived by the old doctrines of Judaism about our physical and spiritual makeup that God created us with. Their doctrines involve a dependency upon flesh, and omit teaching about the "spiritual body" of Apostle Paul.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul explained what type... of body the resurrection will be. He taught that it will be a "spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15:42-50). And he taught that is the type body also those still alive on earth when Jesus comes, will be changed into.

A little later in that same 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter, Apostle Paul taught that on the "last trump" (the 7th Trumpet of Revelation 11), we shall be "changed"...

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

Now it is most often taught in today's Churches that when Paul said, "but we shall all be changed", that he was speaking only... about those of Christ's Church. But their idea simply is not so. Paul was actually pointing to ALL PEOPLES still alive on earth on that day of Christ's future return. ALL those still alive on earth will be changed, at the twinkling of an eye, at an instant, suddenly.

Maybe Paul doesn't seem clear on that point that all alive are changed on that day, you might say? A little later though, but in Greek, Paul did clear that point up about the wicked still alive being changed to the "spiritual body" also.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

It's kind of amazing that Lord Jesus there taught that on the day of His 2nd coming ALL in the graves will come forth, i.e., be raised, and for those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and to those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation". Lot of brethren simply bypass this John 5:28-29 Scripture, no doubt because it conflicts with how they wrongly teach about the "dead" in Revelation 20:5 being about a later second resurrection.

The matter there with what Lord Jesus said is a fact though, i.e., the WICKED dead will have a resurrection also on the day of His future return! just not among those in Christ.

Since those of the "resurrection of damnation" will be raised from the dead also, what type of body will they have? Well, what type of body did Paul teach the resurrection is... per the 1 Corinthians 15 Scripture? A "spiritual body"? (1 Corinthians 15:42-50). YES! a "spiritual body".

Some will think, "But I thought the spiritual body meant Salvation in Jesus Christ?" Not so, there are TWO CHANGES one must go through to have Eternal Life in Christ Jesus, not just one. How so?

1 Cor 15:53-55
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, 'Death is swallowed up in victory.'
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
KJV

Count those changes in verse 53 between the "and". That is TWO CHANGES, one must go through to have Christ's Victory over death.

Will those of the "resurrection of damnation" have eternal Life? NO! What's the difference with them then?

Those of the "resurrection of damnation" will STILL BE SUBJECT TO THE "SECOND DEATH". What's that? The "second death" we are told in Revelation 20 is the casting into the future "lake of fire" after the future "thousand years".

Those 4 words in bold-underlined above is where Apostle Paul revealed that point:

1. "corruptible" (Greek phthartos - perishable, flesh) must put on...
2. "incorruption" (Greek aphthrsia - unending existence)
AND...
3. "this mortal" (Greek thnetos - liable to die) must put on...
4. "immortality" (Greek athanasia - deathlessness).

Those of the "resurrection of damnation" will go through the 1st change above ONLY. Their 'mortal' souls will still be in that thnetos liable to die condition of being thrown into the "lake of fire" later, called the "second death". But those in Christ will have put on immortality, their souls made immortal and never able to die.

Paul was actually pulling from Isaiah 25:6-10 about death being swallowed up in victory. That is where Paul was actually quoting from in 1 Corinthians 15:54. And here is one of the prophecies from that Isaiah 25 Scripture about this future change of all peoples on earth...

Isa 25:7
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
KJV

In relation to the idea of death being swallowed up in victory, which is with that Isaiah 25 Scripture where Paul was quoting, what do you think that "vail that is spread over all nations" and "face of the covering cast over all people", is about? It is about this present FLESH world, it ending with that "last trump" event with ALL peoples on earth being 'changed'.

I know, all that may seem a lot to take in, especially with all the FLESHY talkers in today's pulpits who don't really understand what the coming resurrection to the "spiritual body" is really about. Did you ever think that is why very few Churches ever cover about this change to the "spiritual body" that Paul taught? Yeah, it conflicts with what they are... teaching instead. And what's that? Most are falsely teaching that the resurrection is to FLESH BODY, completely bypassing what Apostle Paul taught here in 1 Corinthians 15. And many congregations just ain't gonna' have it any other way, so it's not always the preacher's fault.

God said the following about the rebellious of His people back in Old Testament times, but it can still apply today to the rebellious among His Church too...

Isa 30:9-13
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
KJV

You know what that "breaking cometh suddenly at an instant" is referring to? It is referring to the LAST DAY of this present world when God's consuming fire and trembling of the earth will happen on that day, ending this present world.

I am in agreement if the 7th Trumpet as being the last. But why would the living remainder be transformed, they are already dead spiritually. Those who are in the graves will come to life as they once existed, like the ungodly who are left behind.
There are some other complications in your view. According to Romans 11, a remnant Jewish bloodline (Israel) of 1/3 will be saved after Jesus resurrects us. They will see Him and mourn, realize who that He was the Messiah all along. And there are those on the fence that did not take the mark of the Beast that will be left behind. They will repent and be saved. I see the reprobates (resurrected and those who are alive) both being destroyed in the Lake of Fire, this at the end of the Great Tribulation AND also at the end of the millennial Kingdom. Two resurrections and two judgments. Its not an iron clad view, I just feel comfortable with it for now ...,until someone shows me something that convinces me otherwise.

 

[Timtofly]

First, you acknowledge that all of the dead will be resurrected and judged on the day Christ returns and then you try to say that the thousand years follows that. That makes no sense whatsoever and shows that no one can trust anything you're saying.

We all know that when we're changed we'll have a spiritual body since that's what it says in 1 Corinthians 15, so that isn't something anyone in their right mind is going to disagree about. Their might be disagreement with what the nature of that spiritual body will be like, but that's all. The idea that Paul was talking about unbelievers as well as believers in 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 is complete nonsense. That's like saying he was also referring to the resurrection of unbelievers rather than just believers in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23. His focus was entirely on believers in 1 Corinthians 15, not unbelievers.

Ironically he sounds like you all. He must be a partial Amil.

 

[Davy]

I am in agreement if the 7th Trumpet as being the last.

The 7th trumpet is the final trumpet, even in the Greek for "last" trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52. But I'm not certain what it is you are agreeing with. I'm simply covering what Apostle Paul taught line upon line about the resurrection and gathering to Christ.

But why would the living remainder be transformed, they are already dead spiritually. Those who are in the graves will come to life as they once existed, like the ungodly who are left behind.

Which is more important, what God's Word teaches line upon line, or what men's traditions say? Men's traditions want us to think the resurrection is about a new flesh body, but God's Word does not teach that, and I revealed that in this thread from Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15.

Therefore, in order to receive God's Truth by The Holy Spirit, because Paul was teaching via The Holy Spirit in that Chapter about the resurrection body, we must first... be willing to accept the Scripture as written. That is always... how we must be to receive God's Truth in His written Word.

And the majority of the time, God provides us at least two and often more Scripture witnesses for a Truth in His Word. I could have covered the 2 Corinthians 5 Scripture also with Paul's teaching about the resurrection body type; they go together, the 2 Corinthians 5 Chapter revealing that we ALREADY HAVE the "spiritual body" or "image of the heavenly" body inside our flesh body today. I could even reveal that idea from Apostle Paul in the Romans 8 Chapter where Paul taught about the future glory of the manifestation of the sons of God, with Paul pointing to the redemption of our body, but not meaning our flesh body, but the body of the world to come which is the "image of the heavenly" and not a flesh body, per Paul.

So, why would those still alive on earth be 'changed' to the "spiritual body" on that day, at the sound of the "last trump" (i.e., the 7th Trumpet)? Because the world to come will NOT BE ABOUT ANOTHER FLESH WORLD. It will be one of Spirit, and our outward image body type will be the "spiritual body" Paul taught there in 1 Corinthians 15. EVERYONE will have that body type, even the wicked unsaved who go through Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

Thus all the dead are raised on that day of Christ's coming, and they will be in the "spiritual body", the "image of the heavenly" which Paul taught. Then everyone left alive on earth MUST be changed to that same type of body also, the "image of the heavenly".

There are some other complications in your view. According to Romans 11, a remnant Jewish bloodline (Israel) of 1/3 will be saved after Jesus resurrects us. They will see Him and mourn, realize who that He was the Messiah all along.

No, the problem is with the false doctrine of a Pre-trib Rapture theory you've been taught. About this subject of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church, you simply do not understand the actual Scripture about it.

In Romans 11, Apostle Paul speaking of his own brethren (the Jews), he said that God had spiritually blinded them away from The Gospel until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled. That fulfillment means to the day of Christ's future return on the "last trump" (7th), which is the only time of His future return.

And in Zechariah 12, in the latter part, it is written how those deceived Jews when they recognize Jesus as Messiah, then they will mourn for Him like a long lost son. When will they do that per Apostle Paul?

On the day that Jesus APPEARS TO ALL. Is that during the "great tribulation"? No. It is ON THE LAST DAY when Jesus RETURNS and even those who pierced Him, will see His coming in the clouds (Revelation 1:7). It even says all the kindreds of the earth will wail when they see Him on that day in the future. That CERTAINLY IS NOT before, nor during the "great tribulation", but AFTER the tribulation like He said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

Thus you have your story from the Pre-trib Rapture doctors going against the actual Bible Scripture that is written.

And there are those on the fence that did not take the mark of the Beast that will be left behind.

Again, that idea is a Pre-trib Rapture theory idea from men, used as a SCARE TACTIC. It is NOT written anywhere in God's Word that ANY of those 'left behind' worship the beast or take his mark.

The Luke 17 Chapter about the two in the field, one taken and the other left, is TOTALLY REVERSED IN THE FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY.

Jesus showed the one 'taken' is gathered to where the fowls who eat on a dead carcase will be (Luke 17:37). His disciples asked Him, "Where, Lord" about those first ones taken, and that was His answer. Another version of His answer appears in Matthew 24:28.

That means the REAL TEACHING Lord Jesus was showing about the two in the field, is that the one LEFT is to remain working, and NOT TAKEN. The idea is that the one 'taken' is TAKEN IN DECEPTION TO THE COMING FALSE MESSIAH, and that means those are the ones that will TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST, being deceived.

Thus your understanding of the two in the field is BACKWARDS, simply because you listen to men's false pre-trib rapture theory instead of reading the simple Luke 17 Scripture of what Jesus Himself said. To put it bluntly, it means you follow men instead of Jesus on such a matter.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jude 1: 14
“Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones 15to execute judgment on the people of the world. He will convict every person of all the ungodly things they have done and for all the insults that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones now who might these holy ones be?
?? answer= the raptured believers!!!

No, that's talking about Him coming with His angels and with the souls of the dead in Christ who will unite with their changed bodies at His return. No one will be raptured before then.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ironically he sounds like you all. He must be a partial Amil.

A partial Amil? LOL! There is no such thing. You should not talk about things of which you know nothing about. He believes the thousand years comes after Christ's return. No Amil believes that. So, he is not an Amil in any way, shape or form. If you actually made an effort to think about this for more than a second you might have realized that.

 

[Davy]

Another matter where many show lack of understanding that "image of the heavenly" body which Apostle Paul taught for the resurrection and as the body of the world to come, is this. It is NOT a flesh and bone type body.

1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

Per 1 Corinthians 15:45-47, Paul showed that even Lord Jesus' flesh body was changed to "a quickening spirit", which points to the "image of the heavenly", a "spiritual body".

So when Paul said that "...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...," he meant that literally.

What type... of body is it then?

It is sad that some wrongly believe that for the angels to appear on earth to those in the flesh, that those angels must also put on human flesh. That idea is nowhere written anywhere in God's Word.

Not only that, but some wrongly believe that the Biblical mention of a "spirit" always means an 'evil spirit', or 'familiar spirit', or 'demon'! That is simply not true...

Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV

That right there is about our 3 parts of created makeup God created us with: our spirit, our soul, and our flesh. Per The New Testament, our spirit and soul are always together, but our spirit with soul can be separated from our flesh body.

Thus WE ALIVE EACH HAVE A SPIRIT with our SOUL attached, dwelling inside our flesh body. That "spirit" is NOT just force.

Our "spirit" is actually about our "spiritual body" that dwells INSIDE our flesh body while alive on earth. It is a heavenly dimension type body, what Paul also called the "image of the heavenly" above. It is NOT manifest while we are in this flesh body alive on earth, but still, it is already there, dwelling inside our flesh. If you don't understand this point, then you will never understand Paul in the following...

2 Cor 5:1-8
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

What Apostle Paul said there is very important, and reveals a mystery. Our "earthly house of this tabernacle" means what? That is about our earthy image, our outside likeness of this present world, our FLESH body. Paul called this the "image of the earthy".

Paul said if that earthy body were "dissolved" (i.e., destroyed), we STILL have (at present) "a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." What's that? That's the "image of the heavenly" Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 15. It is that "spiritual body" that dwells inside our flesh while alive on earth.

That idea of it not being made with hands is just an expression that it is NOT a flesh and bone type body!

Is this what happens with a soldier in combat that falls victim to an artillery shell direct hit upon him, his flesh being completely disintegrated? Yes. His flesh is literally destroyed, but his "building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens", is SUDDENLY REVEALED right then, in the heavenly dimension!

The YouTube Clint Walker video is one of the best witnesses to this, as Clint, a western actor, had a ski accident with a ski pole that went through his heart. He said he immediately found himself in that 'other' body they say we have. And he said that other body felt pretty good. And he said he suddenly knew things he never knew before. However, he also said he felt like there was still something he was meant to do on earth, and he prayed to God that He would let him go back to earth to finish, whatever it was. Then he woke up in a hospital room hooked up to tubes, and lived to give this witness.

But Clint had actually died, and he said they had him pronounced dead by 3 doctors, and on a gurney in the hall ready to go to the "meat wagon". Another doctor, leaving the hospital by shortcut, passed Clint's dead body on his way to his car. The doctor said he didn't feel right, that something was 'off' about him, so he went to inspect Clint's body. And while the doctor was doing that, Clint said to him, "Do you really have to do that?" The doctor said, "Yes I do!" and had Clint rushed to the emergency room. Clint thus said he was written up in the medical journals as a miracle case, because his brain had been so long without oxygen that he should have been a mental vegetable.


2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

What "in this we groan"? Our spirit with soul groans while inside our flesh body on earth, because our spirit-soul desires to be clothed upon with our house from heaven! And what kind of house is that from heaven? Our "spiritual body" that dwells inside our flesh body.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

That mortality might be swallowed up of life? Yeah! because our house from heaven, our "spiritual body", is not a perishable type body like our flesh body is! And Paul also said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, meaning that "spiritual body" of the world to come.

5 Now He That hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Does Paul mean that in ADDITION to our "spiritual body" inside our flesh, God has ALSO given us (i.e., those in Christ Jesus) also the gift of The Holy Spirit? YES! exactly!

Our 'spirit' inside our flesh is NOT The Holy Spirit Itself.


6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
KJV

 

[ScottA]

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.​

..."All", is correct.

 

[Keraz]

So when Paul said that "...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...," he meant that literal

The whole idea of a change from a physical body to a spiritual one, has been confused and misplaced.
It is not said to happen at the time of Jesus' Return. All the prophecy about immortality or glorification will take place at the Great White Throne Judgment; after the Millennium.
Even the GT martyrs do not receive immortality then, they are resurrected into mortal bodies and can die a second death, but they are assured of immortality at the GWT, as their names are in the Book of Life.

The idea of immortality before then, is part of the 'rapture to heaven' lie and cannot happen.
Daniel 12:1-2 says the people who will be delivered, that is: made immortal, are the ones whose names are in the Book of Life.
ALL who have ever lived will be raised, some to everlasting life, the rest to eternal shame.
Plainly, obviously; Daniel's prophecy refers to the end of God's 7000 year Plan for mankind.