The soon coming rapture?

[ewq1938]

Sure the explaining away. People are already primed, and I dare say many do not even know their own neighbors.

But why are you calling it Secret? People have heard about it, talk about it. What is the Secret, that is not known?

I'm post tribulation but the secret part of pre-trib is the non-public coming of Christ. That isn't biblical, nor is a pre-trib rapture but that would be what is secret about it from their perspective.

 

[Cross8527]

Sure the explaining away. People are already primed, and I dare say many do not even know their own neighbors.

But why are you calling it Secret? People have heard about it, talk about it. What is the Secret, that is not known?

I believe secret was meant as in a sudden dissapearing of people happening out of nowhere at a random time, you know the whole no man knows the day or hour thing.

 

[Truth7t7]

It would help immensely if you had ears to hear and eyes to see.

No problem.

Here is the second rapture which occurs at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. This occurs immediately after the tribulation and just before the wrath of God which is the trumpets.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Jesus remains in the clouds in this rapture and sends his angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


When the Lord comes for His Church, the first rapture, the Lord himself will come.
1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[ewq1938]

I believe secret was meant as in a sudden dissapearing of people happening out of nowhere at a random time, you know the whole no man knows the day or hour thing.

That would be "surprise" not "secret".

 

[Cross8527]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I am curious what do you think of the next chapter when he says that the day of the Lord comes like a theif in the night in the next chapter of Thessolonians? if not a pre trib rapture which aside from a mid trid one or pre wrath one at least is the only one in which we can liken his coming as a theif in the night then what did he mean by that exactly?

 

[Cross8527]

That would be "surprise" not "secret".

Well the belief is that it will be so sudden that no one will even know it happened until people suddenly rrealize a lot of people are missing and that it will happen out of nowhere ona random day without warning.

 

[Taken]

I'm post tribulation but the secret part of pre-trib is the non-public coming of Christ. That isn't biblical, nor is a pre-trib rapture but that would be what is secret about it from their perspective.

Christ is the Power of God. Men do not actually SEE Christ, they SEE the Reflection of His Power.

It is the Lord that descends from Heaven to the Clouds., that is not Earth.

It is people, with their new body, IN Christ, that rise up to the clouds to meet the Lord.

Receiving Salvation requires a death of the body.
New (glorious) bodies are receive when the body is risen up.

You must be aware, those IN Christ, lay down their life, crucified with Jesus?
Earthly men are required /sentenced to die ONCE.
Crucified with Jesus, satisfies dying ONCE.
They have Received their Salvation.
That is the MAJOR point of the New Covenant...assured Salvation now, and Not subject to Wrath. Why not Wrath? Why? Because Wrath is for those who have NOT fulfilled Gods Will. Ie....Choosing HIM, with a heartful true commitment.

Tribulation ON Earth, IS expressly Tribulation sent down from Heaven, upon the earth and it’s inhabitants who have not fulfilled Gods WILL, to Commit to belief IN God and the One God Sent.

During the Trib, some men will come into belief, commit, be killed, be Saved. They are not “raptured”. Their saved souls rise to heaven. Their body’s risen after the 1,000 yr reign, ie 1st Resurrection.

A 2nd Resurrection will occur for the unsaved.

So yes there will be a rising up of body’s, Post-Trib, After the 1,000 yr reign.

Some reign WITH Christ, 1,000 years.
Some are raised WITH God forever after the 1,000 years.
Some are raised to Damnation separated from God After the 1,000 yrs.

Rev 20

1. [2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousandyears,
2. [3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
3. [4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
4. [5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
5. [6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
6. [7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Then does the nations (established among mortals during the 1,000 yrs, ), with Satan loosed, come against Christ’s Kingdom. They are killed, Battle between holy and demonic angels...good and holy triumphs...then is evil defeated, overcome.

They...Save, risen, reign, WITH.
Then the rest...Saved, risen. With, renewed Earth.

 

[ewq1938]

Well the belief is that it will be so sudden that no one will even know it happened until people suddenly rrealize a lot of people are missing and that it will happen out of nowhere ona random day without warning.

Which rules out any secrecy. The rapture will be a surprise that the whole world will know happened because so many people rose into the clouds at the same time. It will also let the unsaved know that the true God is still in heaven not on the Earth being worshipped because the people rapture would have been their enemies.

 

[ewq1938]

Christ is the Power of God. Men do not actually SEE Christ, they SEE the Reflection of His Power.

It is the Lord that descends from Heaven to the Clouds., that is not Earth.

It is the Earth, just above the ground.

During the Trib, some men will come into belief

That isn't found in any part of the bible.

 

[Cross8527]

Which rules out any secrecy. The rapture will be a surprise that the whole world will know happened because so many people rose into the clouds at the same time. It will also let the unsaved know that the true God is still in heaven not on the Earth being worshipped because the people rapture would have been their enemies.

Well the line of thought comes from in a moment in the twinkling of an eye so many think it will happen in a flash not a slow ascension wherre everyone will see it happen. Personally I don't know nor do i claim to assume I would know how it will happen until happens scriptures says it will happen but doesn't give the finer details of the event of how it will affect or not affect people so really all we have speculation it isn't like scripture says says we will slwoly ascend to the sky and every eye will see us rise and that many will weep because of it or people will mourn because their loved ones were taken right in front of their eyes. For all we know it could happen in a split second but feel like a slow ascending for us

 

[The Light]

If you are looking for a fake pretrib rapture, look anywhere but the actual rapture passages.

If you think that the seals are not real events that we can clearly see in Matthew 24, how could you possibly understand the rapture scriptures.

Here is "A" rapture. How do this rapture fit into your timeline? What is it? You dodged the question last time.

 

[The Light]

Sure the explaining away. People are already primed, and I dare say many do not even know their own neighbors.

But why are you calling it Secret? People have heard about it, talk about it. What is the Secret, that is not known?

It is secret because no one will see the Lord when He comes but the believers. There will be lightning at the coming of the Son of man but He will not be visible. The Lord HIMSELF will come for His Church. This is why we are told to watch and be ready.

Heb 9
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

However, when He comes at the 6th seal, He will SEND HIS ANGELS. He will be in the clouds where all can see Him.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

 

[The Light]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What you are saying cannot be true. If Jesus is coming and sets up His kingdom at the 7th trumpet which is when some of the dead are judged, WHY, OH WHY would we be caught up in the clouds. That's the 1st problem.

If we are NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH, WHY, OH WHY, Do you have the Church going through the wrath of God. I could list reason, after reason, after reason why what you are saying is WRONG, but these exercises are a waste of my time. Until you have ears to hear and eyes to see, the best FACTUAL, SCRIPTURAL explanation will only fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

You seem to think there is only one last day.

 

[ewq1938]

If you think that the seals are not real events that we can clearly see in Matthew 24, how could you possibly understand the rapture scriptures.

Here is "A" rapture. How do this rapture fit into your timeline?

There is no rapture in the Song passage.

 

[ewq1938]

What you are saying cannot be true. If Jesus is coming and sets up His kingdom at the 7th trumpet which is when some of the dead are judged, WHY, OH WHY would we be caught up in the clouds. That's the 1st problem.

Not a problem. The saints are scattered all over the globe at the 7th trump so Christ wants them all gatehred to one place, the clouds, so they can join his army and follow him down to Armageddon.

If we are NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH, WHY, OH WHY, Do you have the Church going through the wrath of God.

The Great Tribulation is not the wrath of God. It's the wrath of satan, Revelation 12.

 

[ewq1938]

Well the line of thought comes from in a moment in the twinkling of an eye so many think it will happen in a flash not a slow ascension wherre everyone will see it happen.

The wording, "in the twinkling of an eye" is said about the change from mortality to immortality and the resurrection of the dead to immortality not anything else:

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Personally I don't know nor do i claim to assume I would know how it will happen until happens scriptures says it will happen but doesn't give the finer details of the event of how it will affect or not affect people so really all we have speculation it isn't like scripture says says we will slwoly ascend to the sky and every eye will see us rise and that many will weep because of it or people will mourn because their loved ones were taken right in front of their eyes. For all we know it could happen in a split second but feel like a slow ascending for us

The speed of the ascension of the raptured saints to the clouds is not mentioned but it is highly likely the speed will be the same as when Christ ascended...not super fast, watchable and visible.

 

[n2thelight]

How long has the rapture been soon ?

At what point did it become soon ?

How long after the death of Christ could the rapture had happened ?

Does the signs Christ gave of His return mean anything , if so to whom ?

After the rapture what will people on earth be doing ?

Mark 13:23 "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things."

Where in scripture did Christ tell us about a rapture ?

 

[The Light]

Not a problem. The saints are scattered all over the globe at the 7th trump so Christ wants them all gatehred to one place, the clouds, so they can join his army and follow him down to Armageddon.

Oh, its a problem. You just don't understand that it is a problem because you don't understand that Armageddon has already happened before the 7th trumpet. What do you think "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord." means. I'll give you a hint. Use common sense, Chirst has set up His kingdom on earth.

The Great Tribulation is not the wrath of God. It's the wrath of satan, Revelation 12.

Exactly. AND THE GREAT TRIBULATION IS OVER AT THE 6TH SEAL.

IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS, the sun shall be darkened etc, etc, etc. THE SIXTH SEAL.

 

[ewq1938]

Oh, its a problem. You just don't understand that it is a problem because you don't understand that Armageddon has already happened before the 7th trumpet.

Armageddon does not happen before the 7th trump.

 

[n2thelight]

The ELECT of God, during the Trib., are, SENT Prophets, Teachers, Witnesses....FROM GOD...to Gods Elect...FOR their Benefit to HEAR from their own race (Hebrews, Tribesmen, Jews)...that they (remaining Jews scattered to the 4 corners of the Earth) might Believe, be Killed, dying IN FAITH, thus saved, (soul goes to Heaven) and Bodily RAISED UP in Glory, by God....First resurrection, After 1,000 yrs reign.

You serious , scripture please .