Christianity boils down to believing in the end, there's no other way around it

[L.A.M.B.]

Conditional love can never be God then. Conditional love belongs to man, not God. God is unconditional love. This is why I don't agree with the idea of being worthy of love ONLY if this or that. It's asinine. True love can never be a transaction

I think what Jesus meant by being the way is that he's an example. There's a difference between following Jesus and fanatisicising over him.

I love Jesus. But the fan clubs scare me.

You seem to have ALL YOUR NEGATIVES in the wrong place sir !

Maybe a trip through the word of God through the leading of the Holy Spirit is what you need too.
YOU HAVE SO MUCH BACKWARDS !

 

[AceWestfall08]

But thats the THING. I don't toss and turn. I have peace of mind. I have an OATH i recieved in my vision I had. I saw a floating head for crying out loud.
I have zero Doubts in God. I have doubts in the ABSOLUTES of Christianity.

 

[Animal2692]

You seem to have ALL YOUR NEGATIVES in the wrong place sir !

Maybe a trip through the word of God through the leading of the Holy Spirit is what you need too.
YOU HAVE SO MUCH BACKWARDS !

If the word of God has me looking down on others for not believing what I believe, then I can't see that as the word of God

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Prayer will be offered for those seeking the way out of darkness without the light.

 

[Behold]

Now my question is, if there is SO much 'overwhelming evidence' and so much 'proof', why is belief still necessary?

Because Salvation is given to those who Believe.
Why?
Because God created Salvation so that no person is able to claim that they deserve it or earned it or can keep it by self effort.
Why?
Because its a GIFT bought and paid for by God :> as Christ shedding His blood on The Cross and dying.
So, God gives you THIS Gift, His Sacrifice, that He died on the Cross to provide, only when you give Him your FAITH that He did this for you.
"all that believe shall be saved"
"all that call on the Name of Jesus shall be saved"
"the work of God is that you believe on JESUS, whom God sent".
"faith is counted as righteousness"
"Justification by faith", without works"
And when you give Him you faith in Christ, God then gives you What Jesus accomplished on The Cross.
= SALVATION

"imputed righteousness". "the Gift of Righteousness"...."The Gift of Salvation".. "Eternal Life" "forgiveness of all your sin". and a New Birth of Your Spirit into the Spirit of God.

 

[AceWestfall08]

I'm not claiming to be Christian or anything. I have spent countless hours in the word though so Ill just post this for everybody.
Thank you "LeastAmongManyBlessed" for this amazing oppurtunity.

The OPPOSITE OF DOUBT IS BELIEVE!

If YOU have that much doubt then you need to move up closer to God. Paul said a person who floats on the waves of doubt will be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine, increasing YOUR doubt.
Ephesians 4:14; James 1:6;

Maybe you just need to eat from the word the bread of life daily,and drink from the life giving waters more.

YOU alone can correct this with the Holy Spirit, and YOU alone can sink your own ship.

Prayer will be offered for those seeking the way out of darkness without the light.

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

 

[Animal2692]

Because Salvation is given to those who Believe.
Why?
Because God created Salvation so that no person is able to claim that they deserve it or earned it or can keep it by self effort.
Why?
Because its a GIFT bought and paid for by God :> as Christ shedding His blood on The Cross and dying.
So, God gives you THIS Gift, His Sacrifice, that He died on the Cross to provide, only when you give Him your FAITH that He did this for you.
"all that believe shall be saved"
"all that call on the Name of Jesus shall be saved"
"the work of God is that you believe on JESUS, whom God sent".
"faith is counted as righteousness"
"Justification by faith", without works"
And when you give Him you faith in Christ, God then gives you What Jesus accomplished on The Cross.
= SALVATION

"imputed righteousness". "the Gift of Righteousness"...."The Gift of Salvation".. "Eternal Life" "forgiveness of all your sin". and a New Birth of Your Spirit into the Spirit of God.

If something is a gift, then I don't need to give anything back. How does it make any sense to say, "I'll gift you salvation but only IF". That's conditional love..which makes it a transaction...which isn't divine. It's like reducing love to that of buying groceries.

 

[Brakelite]

If something is a gift, then I don't need to give anything back. How does it make any sense to say, "I'll gift you salvation but only IF". That's conditional love..which makes it a transaction...which isn't divine. It's like reducing love to that of buying groceries.

Unconditional love motivated the gift, but the gift itself has conditions. The beauty of that though is that none of the conditions can be met under our own power. We can do nothing without God. That's why believing is just the beginning. Belief must turn into trust. That's real faith, without which we can receive nothing from God. The devil's believe, and fear because they will in the end be destroyed. Their beliefs... Even knowledge... Will count as nothing. It takes trust. And to fully trust someone, even God, you need to know and appreciate what He is like. You are on the right track. God is love. Unconditional love. But our redemption is a process... God can't flick a switch and simply change everything. That process takes place in our lives as we surrender our self will and trust Him to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves. Save us.

 

[AceWestfall08]

Unlike the other Guy....Brakelites response was actually constructive and respectful. Thank You. The Belief to trust argument actually makes sense.

But ok, I have something for you.

I used to Believe in Jesus when I was younger. Mainly because I was taught that as a child.

I then had a experience that cemented my faith that God existed, but it made me question my beliefs. It forced me to take my beliefs seriously.
Since then, I haven't eliminated the Jesus belief....it just does not click with me on WHY he has to DIE to redeem others. I don't understand why Death eliminates Death.......

Love i can understand....not death.

 

[ScottA]

I've always thought that if I knew why I was here, it would suck out all the wonder and mystery of life. Why analyze and try to figure life out? We can figure out things within life such as how to make rubber or build a computer. But figuring life itself out, I feel completely destroys it.

I think in the end, the only reason human beings want an answer to life is because they are afraid deep down. I feel like people want to find something more, something pivotal and groundbreaking to make up for their ever mundane existence instead of just seeing the divinity of it. Just full stop. This is it, we have already arrived. There is nowhere to truly go. We are already complete. This moment is enough. Everybody is running around like a chicken witn their head cut off, when do you ever hear someone say that this life is already enough as it is? It has given us so much and we are such ungrateful creatures.

It is because it is natural to seek a view from the next ridge, and when one does, the valley below is not bad, but those who experience the ridge do not look back. But it's more than that, it is like one is when they are a child--which is great and can even be looked back upon fondly, but those who have never been kissed don't know what they have been missing, nor would they actually go back. And love, OMG one has no idea until they know that something, that someone greater.

But, hey, I'm happy if you are happy.

 

[Animal2692]

It is because it is natural to seek a view from the next ridge, and when one does, the valley below is not bad, but those who experience the ridge do not look back. But it's more than that, it is like one is when they are a child--which is great and can even be looked back upon fondly, but those who have never been kissed don't know what they have been missing, nor would they actually go back. And love, OMG one has no idea until they know that something, that someone greater.

But, hey, I'm happy if you are happy.

I am happy, and for no reason whatsoever. Happiness doesn't need any reasons, whereas unhappiness does. The less I try to find a reason to be happy, the happier I am. Imagine that. Looking for happiness implies that you don't have it. There comes a point where one must come to a full stop and rest.

 

[AceWestfall08]

Animal....Enjoy being happy.

The Futility of Work

18I hated all for which I had toiled under the sun, because I must leave it to the man who comes after me. 19And who knows whether that man will be wise or foolish? Yet he will take over all the labor at which I have worked skillfully under the sun. This too is futile.20So my heart began to despair over all the labor that I had done under the sun. 21When there is a man who has labored with wisdom, knowledge, and skill, and he must give his portion to a man who has not worked for it, this too is futile and a great evil. 22For what does a man get for all the toil and striving with which he labors under the sun? 23Indeed, all his days are filled with grief, and his task is sorrowful; even at night, his mind does not rest. This too is futile.24Nothing is better for a man than to eat and drink and enjoy his work. I have also seen that this is from the hand of God. 25For apart from Him,a who can eat and who can find enjoyment? 26To the man who is pleasing in His sight, He gives wisdom and knowledge and joy, but to the sinner He assigns the task of gathering and accumulating that which he will hand over to one who pleases God. This too is futile and a pursuit of the wind.

 

[Animal2692]

Unconditional love motivated the gift, but the gift itself has conditions. The beauty of that though is that none of the conditions can be met under our own power. We can do nothing without God. That's why believing is just the beginning. Belief must turn into trust. That's real faith, without which we can receive nothing from God. The devil's believe, and fear because they will in the end be destroyed. Their beliefs... Even knowledge... Will count as nothing. It takes trust. And to fully trust someone, even God, you need to know and appreciate what He is like. You are on the right track. God is love. Unconditional love. But our redemption is a process... God can't flick a switch and simply change everything. That process takes place in our lives as we surrender our self will and trust Him to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves. Save us.

I also think that it is God who knows God. As a human, I have a finite mind. The finite mind cannot grasp the infinite. So yes, there is a surrender component to all of it. You surrender the 'false self', but you don't cease to exist. I've had that experience many, many times.

To me God neither exists or doesn't exist. God is.

 

[AceWestfall08]

The first step in knowing God, in my opinion, is to be honest with your doubts and to get to know yourself in my opinion. Once you know yourself. You will know what you actually believe and WHY you believe it. Then you can get somewhere and progress in your relationship with God... gotta strip the Ego.

Adam and Eve covered themselves because they were naked.

Don't cover yourself with ego and pride. Become naked and honest and open with God. Then you can move forward.

I'd post a Non-Canonical Passage from the Gospel of Thomas, but i'd probably get banned.....eh screw it....the philosophy is the point, not the authenticity.

(37) His disciples said, "When will you become revealed to us and when shall we see you?"
Jesus said, "When you disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments and place them under your feet like little children and tread on them, then will you see the son of the living one, and you will not be afraid"

 

[Animal2692]

The first step in knowing God, in my opinion, is to be honest with your doubts and to get to know yourself in my opinion. Once you know yourself. You will know what you actually believe and WHY you believe it. Then you can get somewhere and progress in your relationship with God... gotta strip the Ego.

Adam and Eve covered themselves because they were naked.

Don't cover yourself with ego and pride. Become naked and honest and open with God. Then you can move forward.

 

[lforrest]

The struggle between Believing and Knowing is Real. I'm the type of person who can't believe something until it checks out logically or if I seen something. The main reason I truly give Christianity a fair shot is because of a vision I had where a floating head said "Thomas, I swear by my great name you are mine!"......He never told me his name or that he was God.....but it was enough proof with me to believe in the supernatural...and with that comes the definite proof in the existence God.

Christianity and the Bible gives me hope and strength, but as much as I would like to believe it and link it to my vision, doubt always creeps inside of me in terms of it being influenced by humans when authoring it and when I think about Jesus Christ not being exaggerated. Doubt doesn't creep in when I think of God existing.
In under the mindset that I'm blessed because of the Oath I have recieved, and it takes away the pressure of "having to believe in the right thing".

Would you mind sharing the circumstances of that vision and what you felt during it? If it was from God or someone else let some good come from it.

The scriptures are written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, would it be any surprise you need the Holy Spirit to understand them? Truth be told your soul would pant for God and find comfort in the word.

Why is God so Snobby you must go through a middleman to have a relationship. I thought Jesus died to redeem us. Not be a middleman.

Because you would be instantly judged and die; His eyes are too pure to look on evil; he cannot tolerate wrongdoing.
Fortunately for us those who have seen the son have seen the Father. Heaven is going to stay a Holy place, nothing unholy will enter it.

 

[lforrest]

Since then, I haven't eliminated the Jesus belief....it just does not click with me on WHY he has to DIE to redeem others. I don't understand why Death eliminates Death.......
Love i can understand....not death.

It wasn't death that defeated death, but the resurrection. Through the same resurrection we are freed from the shackles of this world.

 

[AceWestfall08]

I was in college. My Junior year. i came home from school to visit my dad at home one weekend. One night as I woke up to use the bathroom, my dad was awake and told me he wanted to talked to me. I sat down with him and he the told me that he was really Gabriel and that he didn't have long because he couldn't be in a body of sin. I looked at him confused and he rose his hand. All of a sudden I felt warm water being poured over me, but yet I wasn't wet. (Baptism by spirit?). I then felt a sudden rush of air in my lungs and I sneezed with my mouth. As soon as that happened I was lifted out of my body and had this weird visual expierence where I saw a floating head appear out of thin air and said to me "Thomas I swear by my great name, you are mine!". He then asked me what I wanted. I responded with "I just want to be happy". After that the head disappeared and I went back to bed like nothing happened and it wasn't a big deal. Forgetting about the experience until months later. Not giving it a thought at all until i felt this pull, giving me the urge to seek out God for myself, independently, and heartfelt.

Its weird though. I wouldnt call it a dream, well if it was, it was the most vivid dream i've ever had.
I wouldn't call it a memory, because it popped into my head what seemed like months after the event occured.
Maybe vision is the wrong word.

But when I think about it, i know it happened to me.
I would give an oath myself that I believe I lived the experience.

 

[AceWestfall08]

My soul does pant for God, and I do find comfort in scriptures.
Having said that. But i also find comfort in The Gnostic Texts, and the Apocrypha.

 

[Enoch111]

You only believe something because you don't know.

That is inaccurate. You believe the Gospel because you know it is the Gospel of God. It has come from God Himself.