Christianity boils down to believing in the end, there's no other way around it

[Enoch111]

People can go on about how one day you will come before God and go to heaven or hell, I could care less.

Since you claim to be of an "other faith" the peace you may have is a phony peace. True peace is the peace of God because you have peace with God.

 

[lforrest]

I was in college. My Junior year. i came home from school to visit my dad at home one weekend. One night as I woke up to use the bathroom, my dad was awake and told me he wanted to talked to me. I sat down with him and he the told me that he was really Gabriel and that he didn't have long because he couldn't be in a body of sin. I looked at him confused and he rose his hand. All of a sudden I felt warm water being poured over me, but yet I wasn't wet. (Baptism by spirit?). I then felt a sudden rush of air in my lungs and I sneezed with my mouth. As soon as that happened I was lifted out of my body and had this weird visual expierence where I saw a floating head appear out of thin air and said to me "Thomas I swear by my great name, you are mine!". He then asked me what I wanted. I responded with "I just want to be happy". After that the head disappeared and I went back to bed like nothing happened and it wasn't a big deal. Forgetting about the experience until months later. Not giving it a thought at all until i felt this pull, giving me the urge to seek out God for myself, independently, and heartfelt.

Its weird though. I wouldnt call it a dream, well if it was, it was the most vivid dream i've ever had.
I wouldn't call it a memory, because it popped into my head what seemed like months after the event occured.
Maybe vision is the wrong word.

But when I think about it, i know it happened to me.
I would give an oath myself that I believe I lived the experience.

Do not take this as an insult, that is not my intent. I believe your story as you saw it.

Your dad had in him a demon going by the name of Gabriel. It could be the same one that appeared to Muhammad. Laying on of hands is a dangerous practice, it can transfer the Holy Spirit, but it can also be used to transfer others spirits. The vision of the floating head that you thought to be God could well have been Satan. He wants your soul too. But no worries, Satan has no claim over you that is Greater than Jesus' claim made in his blood.

The mind, our memories, our perceptions, all are tied to the spiritual somehow so its no surprise you didn't think much of the event at the time.

 

[AceWestfall08]

I failed to mention two other instances that happened in about the same time frame. One before, and One after the previously mentioned.

The first experience was my first introduction to tongues. My dad one day decided to talk to me about religion and have a serious discussion. He started talking about tongues.

He is a war combat veteran. Has extensive knowledge in Christianity and scriptures as well. Says he read the bible 3 times. But he never really did teach me it. He basically allowed my babysitters to take me to church, and allowed me to go to Awana's (a youth bible study) ever week. I even attended Church in high school with a girl i was crushing on. But my dad never actually sat down with me and talked God with me. Or take me to church himself. Or even go now that I think about it.

After introducing what talking in tongues was (i can't remember what he said anymore) he raised his hand and started speaking in tongues briefly.

I remember being overcome with emotion...tears and all, and having this thought process where I couldnt believe God was real, but yet this unknown language proved it. In the moment it seemed surreal to me. I even learned to do it about a week later. My dad told me to go by myself ask God for it and it will come to you. I learned it with only hearing it that one time and with sincere desire for it. It cemented the belief that God was real and existed....leading up to my "floating head vision". But I did not put much heart and thought into my daily life.

.......................Now lets fast forward to AFTER my vision with the floating head.

I was hanging with my boys at one of their houses. And while we were talking I felt this dark shadow come across me. I started feeling beyond terrified. I've never been more scared in my life since or after that day. In a single instance. I started having thoughts that God was going to smite me dead on the spot, tears started rolling down my eyes in front of my boys. I'm full blown panicking....So i started praying in tongues in front of everybody and then I feel this reassuring peaceful calming power wash over me. Then my mind "takes control" of itself. And thoughts are forcefully put in my head, and I hear a voice simultaneously. It was so weird. Having your Thoughts go simultaneously with something you have never heard before audibly. The voice was male, not a deep voice. But a confident tone. It said "Thomas, you are the Lonely Sparrow. But I have given you wings. Oh what mighty wings they are. Spread them and Fly!". The power then fades away.

............

Since then, I have definitely understood the loneliness part of the message. The wings...Idk i ponder it often. Is it the oath i recieved? Is it the freedom from personal and material attachments? Is it this guiding hand in my life that i would like to believe is there? A unique view on things? Is it the protecting wing of God that scriptures refer to? All these seem like wings to me.

I also failed to mention the floating head was playful and jokester with me. Like a family member or close friend. Not as a stranger.
But at the end of the conversation he told me one other thing after I said I wanted to be happy.

He said "I understand".
I didn't quite pick up on it the first time around. But the more I think about it. I remember the look and it spoke volumes. I could see pain on the face.

 

[Animal2692]

Since you claim to be of an "other faith" the peace you may have is a phony peace. True peace is the peace of God because you have peace with God.

Who are you to tell me what my peace is and isn't? Is it just that you can't fathom that one can have peace without your Christian God? A bit narcissistic in my opinion. I've seen athiests with more peace than Christians. My brother in law for example is too afraid to do any type of work on Sundays because he considers it the lord's day and a sin. I was going to go chop some wood and he was trying to tell me that I shouldn't be working on a holy day. I replied, "First off it's not work if I enjoy it, and second off everyday is a holy day." Meanwhile he's out grilling meat which I called him out on back for working as well. He said it's for a bodily necessity and I'm just like, "It's not like our ancestors had grills. We even have tuna cans in the pantry and bananas. Completely unnecessary to grill." I have more peace in that situation than he does because I'm enjoying life without looking over my shoulder of going to hell like he does every waking moment of his life. And he's an extremely devout Christian while I'm the total opposite.

God in my opinion doesn't belong to any religion or faith.

 

[Animal2692]

That is inaccurate. You believe the Gospel because you know it is the Gospel of God. It has come from God Himself.

Do you have to believe that sugar is sweet?

And let's suppose alright, the Gospel of God came from God himself. Well, so has everything else from Lucifer to Jesus then. That means that even these words are also coming from God himself. Everything is an emanation of God.

And you might say that even though Lucifer came from God, Lucifer took it upon himself to become the devil. However, God also knows everything so it's not like God created Lucifer without knowing he would become the devil which means God purposely created the devil. Imagine that

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7. Gospel of God. Before you say I'm just taking a verse out of context, remember there's over 200 denominations (with different interpretations taking whatever they want out of context) in the U.S. alone.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I don't believe in believing. I either know or admit I don't know at all. Beliefs are always going to be open to scrutiny and doubt, it is so much work trying to hold onto a belief

be·lieve

/bəˈlēv/

verb

1.

accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of.

"the superintendent believed Lancaster's story"

Similar:

be convinced by

trust

have confidence in

consider honest

consider truthful

regard as true

accept as true

accept

give credence to

credit

give credit to

put confidence in

count on

rely on

depend on

swallow

swallow something hook line and sinker

fall for

go for

buy

take as gospel

Opposite:

disbelieve

2.

hold (something) as an opinion; think or suppose.

"I believe we've already met"

To believe can refer to trust, opinion, confidence...etc.
I think you're referring more to having faith to believe.

 

[Mantis]

I will start by saying that all belief systems are there because we do not know. When you know something, belief becomes unnecessary. You only believe something because you don't know.

I've spoken with many Christians and have done a lot of reading. I'll come across articles by apologetics titled along the lines of '10 signs of proof that God exists' or 'evidence of Jesus' resurrection'.

Now my question is, if there is SO much 'overwhelming evidence' and so much 'proof', why is belief still necessary? Christians clearly consider themselves to be believers in the very end, not knowers. That means they truly don't know, they are simply believing.

I don't believe in believing. I either know or admit I don't know at all. Beliefs are always going to be open to scrutiny and doubt, it is so much work trying to hold onto a belief. The way I see it is that if you just admit you do not know, then that's humility. That's innocence.

I know Jesus, I am a knower or believer what ever you like to call it. The thing is about true christianity is that Jesus lets you Know that he is real.

 

[BarneyFife]

I will start by saying that all belief systems are there because we do not know. When you know something, belief becomes unnecessary. You only believe something because you don't know.

I've spoken with many Christians and have done a lot of reading. I'll come across articles by apologetics titled along the lines of '10 signs of proof that God exists' or 'evidence of Jesus' resurrection'.

Now my question is, if there is SO much 'overwhelming evidence' and so much 'proof', why is belief still necessary? Christians clearly consider themselves to be believers in the very end, not knowers. That means they truly don't know, they are simply believing.

I don't believe in believing. I either know or admit I don't know at all. Beliefs are always going to be open to scrutiny and doubt, it is so much work trying to hold onto a belief. The way I see it is that if you just admit you do not know, then that's humility. That's innocence.

Religious or not, many things that are "known" are eventually found to have only been beliefs.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Animal2692]

be·lieve

/bəˈlēv/

verb

1.

accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of.

"the superintendent believed Lancaster's story"

Similar:

be convinced by

trust

have confidence in

consider honest

consider truthful

regard as true

accept as true

accept

give credence to

credit

give credit to

put confidence in

count on

rely on

depend on

swallow

swallow something hook line and sinker

fall for

go for

buy

take as gospel

Opposite:

disbelieve

2.

hold (something) as an opinion; think or suppose.

"I believe we've already met"

To believe can refer to trust, opinion, confidence...etc.
I think you're referring more to having faith to believe.

I don't like believing because it automatically comes with doubt. The moment you believe something, the possibility of doubting that belief is automatically created. You don't have to believe that the sky is blue for example. Many times we choose to believe in something as a way to cover up our ever mundane, boring existence instead of facing it head on. Seeing the divinity in the mountains or the ocean is much harder than simply just placing an angel on top of them because it takes accountability.

 

[Animal2692]

Religious or not, many things that are "known" are eventually found to have only been beliefs.

Welcome to the forum!

Hi! Yes, some things that are known started off with being beliefs. This also applies to conspiracy theories coming true such as MK Ultra. However, it's very hit and miss. A broken clock is right twice a day

 

[BarneyFife]

Hi! Yes, some things that are known started off with being beliefs.

Yes, and then they become "known," and then many are discovered to be only beliefs again.

 

[Animal2692]

Yes, and then they become "known," and then many are discovered to be only beliefs again.

Right, so then all beliefs must be taken with a grain of salt and one should always remain skeptical. Asking questions is highly discouraged in religion. I wonder why.

For example, let me ask you about the verse Romans 13.

"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities,(A) for there is no authority except that which God has established.(B) The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted,(C) and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.(D) 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.(E) 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.(F)
6 This is also why you pay taxes,(G) for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes;(H) if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

I strongly, strongly disagree with this verse. Ok sure, it doesn't specify whether you should also obey a tyrannical government but it still chooses to be ambiguous. If the government was established by God and the God put the authorities there, then that means someone like Putin is God given. So many politicians (particularly the right wing) abuse this Bible verse to push their agendas and racist/homophobic policies. I don't agree with the Bible pushing this sort of domesticated mindset.

 

[I.O.U]

I will start by saying that all belief systems are there because we do not know. When you know something, belief becomes unnecessary. You only believe something because you don't know.

I've spoken with many Christians and have done a lot of reading. I'll come across articles by apologetics titled along the lines of '10 signs of proof that God exists' or 'evidence of Jesus' resurrection'.

Now my question is, if there is SO much 'overwhelming evidence' and so much 'proof', why is belief still necessary? Christians clearly consider themselves to be believers in the very end, not knowers. That means they truly don't know, they are simply believing.

I don't believe in believing. I either know or admit I don't know at all. Beliefs are always going to be open to scrutiny and doubt, it is so much work trying to hold onto a belief. The way I see it is that if you just admit you do not know, then that's humility. That's innocence.

Did Jesus believe in the father who was himself in heaven?

 

[I.O.U]

I don't like believing because it automatically comes with doubt. The moment you believe something, the possibility of doubting that belief is automatically created. You don't have to believe that the sky is blue for example. Many times we choose to believe in something as a way to cover up our ever mundane, boring existence instead of facing it head on. Seeing the divinity in the mountains or the ocean is much harder than simply just placing an angel on top of them because it takes accountability.

Are you sure you're not me? Because you sound like me with what I've been saying for the last 2 years.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So many politicians (particularly the right wing) abuse this Bible verse to push their agendas and racist/homophobic policies. I don't agree with the Bible pushing this sort of domesticated mindset.

so you missed the parts where paul said homosexuals wont get to Heaven? Or that racists wont either?

 

[AceWestfall08]

When the bible says homosexuals....is it talking about two males who truly love each other, or maybe homosexuals that have have sex for pleasure?

Is this a case where TRUE LOVE between the same sex genders, well is damnable? An abomination? A disgrace?

If so....well lets just say, I'm disappointed on how petty he is.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

When the bible says homosexuals....is it talking about two males who truly love each other, or maybe homosexuals that have have sex for pleasure?

Is this a case where TRUE LOVE between the same sex genders, well is damnable? An abomination? A disgrace?

If so....well lets just say, I'm disappointed on how petty he is.

both. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. As far as calling God petty, you dont seem to understand how this works. You cant just live anyway you want and still expect God to save you.

 

[AceWestfall08]

@Lifelong_sinner
I wonder if God will accept people who believe in him, but don't agree with him...and sometimes even dislike him on a few issues. Especially if they are willing and have the courage to voice their opinion to him.

Best believe, I'll have words with him, just like he will have words with me. Gotta lay the heart out on the open. Honest and all.

Some animals are homophobic....they didn't sin by eating the apple. Are they abominations created by God? Did some animals choose on their own free will to be that way? I'm not saying animals go to heaven. But they are a created species, just like man was created....so why my dogs for example....or dolphins....do this? They didn't eat the apple. Satan has no motivation to tempt them?

 

[FHII]

I will start by saying that all belief systems are there because we do not know. When you know something, belief becomes unnecessary. You only believe something because you don't know.

I find a lot of fault with this philosophy. I also don't know what is the main point you are trying to make.

"Believing" doesn't always mean we don't know. In fact, it's just the opposite. People believe because they DO "know". Now, from there we can make arguments. Not all beliefs are correct. Not everyone who believes something (religious or otherwise) has all the facts or even correct information. That much is true, and there are plenty of examples every day in everyone's life.

So lets revisit my statement that people believe because they do "know". A better statement is that they think they know. Some things people believe or know are just false. Their belief is wrong because their evidence is wrong and/or incomplete.

But to say that people believe because they don't know is incorrect. No one believes anything without some evidence of some type. And in the year 2022 it's going to based on artifacts and written historical accounts (as it pertains to religion). Whether or not it's accurate is not the question. The fact is that whether you are Jewish, Christian or Muslim you are basing your religious beliefs on some evidence. As for Hinduism, Buddhism and others, I cannot comment. I have read Buddha and have a high school knowledge of these religions. I don't know much more about them. And by the way, I'm saying I don't know about the... but that doesn't mean I believe them. (Thus showing the error in your logic).

Eyewitness testimony is also open to scrutiny. The people back then had less technology and didn't have much science either-they believed all sorts of things that they simply couldn't explain

This is also faulty reasoning. We have eyewitness accounts from the American Civil War, WWI, and the Battle of Thermopylea. Are we to scrutinize them due to lack of technology?

Furthermore, I would argue that technology can lead to scrutiny. If you doubt me, I have one word for you: photoshop! Now do you really believe that technology reduces scrutiny?

Eyewitness accounts are not always accurate so they are to be scrutinized. But in history it's rarely due to a lack of technology, but rather personal bias.

Now because we are in a religious discussion, I would like to comment on why you made this statement. But I don't know why you made it, so I can't comment. And by they way, just because I don't know why you made it doesn't mean I believe it, as your philosophy suggests I would.

Based on evidence given by your writing, I "believe" you are questioning what we really know about Christ, about God and about Christianity. While I can point to various artifacts and nonbiblical historical accounts, my main source is the Bible. Unless you have never read it oreven heard of it, that should surprise. surprise.

So, I can theorize that you don't believe the Bible. While I believe this based on evidence (and all my evidence is true as it is freely displayed in this thread), if my belief is a false conclusion based on incomplete information or faulty logic, please let me know.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

@Lifelong_sinner
I wonder if God will accept people who believe in him, but don't agree with him...and sometimes even dislike him on a few issues. Especially if they are willing and have the courage to voice their opinion to him.

Best believe, I'll have words with him, just like he will have words with me. Gotta lay the heart out on the open. Honest and all.

Some animals are homophobic....they didn't sin by eating the apple. Are they abominations created by God? Did some animals choose on their own free will to be that way? I'm not saying animals go to heaven. But they are a created species, just like man was created....so why my dogs for example....or dolphins....do this? They didn't eat the apple. Satan has no motivation to tempt them?

i think you have the wrong view on who God is. I can promise that you wont be “having words with Him” when you are in front of Him and seeing His glory revealed to you. I would imagine you’ll come to understand what true fear is.
You disagreeing with God is nothing but you being prideful, God doesnt listen to the prideful. You need to understand He is perfect and without sin, whereas you are totally depraved and dont do anything good. You put yourself too high up and God not high enough.