Was Jesus a 'created being?'

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Jim B

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.
This is off the subject but I think it's something that needs saying from time
to time.

Internet forums have given many of Christ's obscure followers a convenient
venue for sharing their time-won knowledge and experience with a
worldwide audience. For the world's sake, I highly recommend making an
effort to compose legible posts; neatly arranged, sensible, coherent, and
tidy.

Excessive bolding, underscoring, and italics, lack of adequate paragraphing,
twitter spelling, unnecessary emogies, horrible grammar, confusing mixtures
of fonts and colors, and/or shouting with caps and oversize letters, makes
for tiresome clutter and annoying graffiti that leave a bad impression.

Some people's posts resemble the obnoxious placards of worked-up
protesters and political activists; yelling, shrieking, and sometimes even
spraying spittle. They are beyond reason and objectivity in their desperation
to be taken seriously. Apparently they assume that if only they shout loud
enough, make themselves irritating enough, and hold out long enough;
maybe they'll get their point across and somebody will finally listen.

I rather suspect that some people regard forums as a canvas for painting
their comments instead of composing them. Well; that might be okay for
outsiders, they can scrawl and splash and be as messy as they want because
their comments don't matter anyway. But for those of us who honestly
believe ourselves to be representing God's son; that kind of penmanship is
unacceptable because it reflects on Christ and makes him look like his
followers are desperate kooks.
_

You are correct: it's off the subject. The OP questions whether or not Jesus was a created being.

Regarding your last sentence -- But for those of us who honestly
believe ourselves to be representing God's son; that kind of penmanship is
unacceptable because it reflects on Christ and makes him look like his
followers are desperate kooks -- it's in the eye of the beholder.

Finally, there is no such word as "emogies". The word you misspelled is "emojis". How can you be so careless and semi-literate?
 

Jim B

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Speaking of Dr. Wuest,

”Jesus is God only begotten, proceeding by eternal generation from the Father in a birth that never took place because it always was.”

(Kenneth Wuest, Great Truths To Live By, p. 30)

How well do you think that observation fits with what we see in scripture?

The Bible says that Jesus was born.

Matthew 1:18-25, "Now the birth of Jesus Christ happened this way. While his mother Mary was engaged to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph, her husband to be, was a righteous man, and because he did not want to disgrace her, he intended to divorce her privately. When he had contemplated this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, because the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son and you will name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” This all happened so that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet would be fulfilled: “Look! The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will name him Emmanuel,” which means “God with us.” When Joseph awoke from sleep he did what the angel of the Lord told him. He took his wife, but did not have marital relations with her until she gave birth to a son, whom he named Jesus.

Dr. Wuest is clearly confused.
 
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Johann

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Speaking of Dr. Wuest,

”Jesus is God only begotten, proceeding by eternal generation from the Father in a birth that never took place because it always was.”

(Kenneth Wuest, Great Truths To Live By, p. 30)

How well do you think that observation fits with what we see in scripture?
Nothing wrong with Wuest and his translation, I am looking where to find his bible to free download and I have knowledge re the Koine Greek, can you tell me what a 2ndAorist is?
J.
 

Johann

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But let us all remember that jesus is both true God and true man wrapped up in one person now! The divine Jesus is eternal but HIs humanity had a definite beginning. This question cannot be answered as an either/or but as a both/and! For Jesus did have a beginning and is also eternal!
Interesting, yesterday I found that Jesus have no "dual" nature, that of man, and that of Christ.
Of which I firmly believe.
How would you answer?
J.
 

Matthias

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Nothing wrong with Wuest and his translation …

“A birth that never took place” contradicts the birth narratives in Matthew 1 and Luke 1.

… I am looking where to find his bible to free download and I have knowledge re the Koine Greek, can you tell me what a 2ndAorist is?
J.

If you have knowledge of Koine Greek then why are you asking me a question about Greek grammar?
 

Johann

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“A birth that never took place” contradicts the birth narratives in Matthew 1 and Luke 1.



If you have knowledge of Koine Greek then why are you asking me a question about Greek grammar?
I asked you what is a 2nd Aorist in John 1:1
Can you explain, since you think Wuest has lost his marbles?
I know the answer, let's see if you do.
J.
 

RedFan

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Finally, there is no such word as "emogies". The word you misspelled is "emojis". How can you be so careless and semi-literate?

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I can't restrain myself from commenting: Jim B, you owe an apology here. This isn't a Spelling Bee. It's a forum for exchanging ideas. The banner at the top of this webpage says "Loving People" for a reason.
 
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Johann

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I don't have a dog in this fight, but I can't restrain myself from commenting: Jim B, you owe an apology here. This isn't a Spelling Bee. It's a forum for exchanging ideas. The banner at the top of this webpage says "Loving People" for a reason.
There is a ignore button, it is free and can be used.
J.
 
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Matthias

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I asked you what is a 2nd Aorist in John 1:1
Can you explain, since you think Wuest has lost his marbles?

I didn’t say anything about Wuest losing his marbles. Do you see or not see the birth of Jesus in Matthew and Luke?

I know the answer, let's see if you do.
J.

Thanks. Now your motive is clear.
 

Johann

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I didn’t say anything about Wuest losing his marbles. Do you see or not see the birth of Jesus in Matthew and Luke?
Of course I see the birth of Christ Jesus, what are you saying?
How did it happened, according to the scriptures and not according to this forum?
As for my "motives" I tend to have a chip on my shoulder, nothing to do with pride.
J.
 
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Matthias

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Of course I see the birth of Christ Jesus, what are you saying?

Are you able to reconcile it with Wuest’s comment about “a birth that never took place”?

How did it happened, according to the scriptures and not according to this forum?

Wuest is calling upon Origen, not scripture.

As for my "motives" I tend to have a chip on my shoulder, nothing to do with pride.
J.
 

Johann

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Wuest is calling upon Origen, not scripture.
You and I are talking past each other and not with each other,
Feel free to "chat" with me privately since I am not going to waste time re circular reasoning.
Or, alternatively, hit the ignore button.
J.
 
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Matthias

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”6. Origen’s Helpful Suggestion. It was the many-sided genius of Origen that helped to solve the problem. Origen, like Tertullian, was strongly opposed to Monarchianism with its emphasis on monotheism to the exclusion of hypostasianism and tri-personality. Abandoning the view of the Apologists and of Tertullian who conceived the Logos to be a person only from the time of the creation, Origen declared the Logos to have been a person from all eternity. ‘His generation is as eternal and everlasting as the brilliancy produced by the sun.’ ‘The Father did not beget the Son and set Him free after He was begotten, but He is always begetting Him.’ This suggestion of an eternal generation was a needed contribution. It was unconsciously a step in the direction of the co-eternity and co-equality of the Son with the Father, as expressed in the Church’s doctrine of the Trinity.”

(J.L. Neve, A History of Christian Thought, Vol. 1 p. 108)
 
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Waiting on him

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Of course I see the birth of Christ Jesus, what are you saying?
How did it happened, according to the scriptures and not according to this forum?
As for my "motives" I tend to have a chip on my shoulder, nothing to do with pride.
J.
Psalm 139:13-16 KJV
[13] For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. [14] I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. [15] My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. [16] Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
 
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Matthias

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Psalm 139:13-16 KJV
[13] For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. [14] I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. [15] My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. [16] Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

This suggests to me that the origin of Jesus is in the womb of his mother. Does it to you?
 
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