The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[GEN2REV]

I could go on and on and on....but you get the point!!!

I doubt it.

You found 3 churches, in the entire world, that YOU claim are protestant.

Those are clearly not protestant churches, loaded to the roof with masonic/pagan symbolism right down to the black and white checkered floors.

I've never seen a church like any of those anywhere in America; besides Catholic churches.

I think you're beating a dead horse.

Catholics have statues. Protestants don't. But that doesn't mean all protestant denominations are 100% Biblically accurate with scripture.

The vast majority are not.

Can we move on to another topic now?

 

[GEN2REV]

And we certainly wouldn't want to look at a grave detailed image of Christ being crucified to remind us of what He did for US....oh, the blasphemy of that image. PLEASE GOD, don't remind me of what your Son did for all of mankind

Do we really need to be reminded, with grave detail, of the last physical state of a loved one who died violently?

I think not.

If you love Jesus Christ, it doesn't serve you much to look upon His beaten and battered body all day every day. It's an insult to God. Besides, it is an image which is forbidden in the Bible as an idol.

If it doesn't bother you to see the Crucifix with the image of Jesus' distorted body on it, then don't worry about it. It bothers certain Christians and they know who they are and so does God.

 

[BarneyFife]

Lol....Wait a minute, HOLD ON! Are you being serious?

YOU read and agree with the interpretations of Scripture from men from the 16th century OR you read Scripture on your own and interpret it into your own truth BUT you are suggesting to me that I shouldn't accept the interpretation of men who talked with and were pupils of the men who WROTE SCRIPTURE???? I should come up with my own interpretation? Simply F A S C I N A T I N G...............

Hi Mary,

Glad you liked it. But I think you might be taking it a little too personally. You've still got me wrong on my approach to Scripture and orthodoxy. But it seems like every time I try to explain my process, you interpret it into something I had no intention of portraying. Oh, well. And Scripture seems to interpret itself for the patient student. Just because everybody disagrees doesn't mean no one is right. If you sealed two men in separate caves with nothing but food, water, and a Bible I think they would emerge agreeing on some things, so why is it so odd that I would agree with various teachers about certain things. I really haven't read much of these 16th-century "men" you mention so much. Granted I've probably read some stuff from people who were influenced by them. I think it goes without saying that you're certainly at liberty to pursue your own course, whether that be to pay respect to church fathers or whatever. You might want to lighten up a little bit, in any case. Just a friendly suggestion.

I read something yesterday that made me think of you. A missionary was talking about a letter he got from a young African man asking for advice on dealing with the temptation to sin. And the missionary quoted a Catholic clergyman who wrote something to the effect of: "When we look at the sinlessness of Mary, the mother of Jesus, it inspires us to have faith that we may be less sinful." Is that idea familiar to you and, if so, would you say you are in agreement with it? Of course, you don't have to answer if you would rather not.

 

[BarneyFife]

Do we really need to be reminded, with grave detail, of the last physical state of a loved one who died violently?

I think not.

If you love Jesus Christ, it doesn't serve you much to look upon His beaten and battered body all day every day. It's an insult to God. Besides, it is an image which is forbidden in the Bible as an idol.

If it doesn't bother you to see the Crucifix with the image of Jesus' distorted body on it, then don't worry about it. It bothers certain Christians and they know who they are and so does God.

I'm ashamed to say that I forced myself to sit through Mel Gibson's gorefest about the crucifixion and it was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. Everywhere I went the year it was released Christians were raving about how beautiful it was. The very idea that physical abuse is what caused the death of Christ seems blasphemous to me. He was killed by the stress of the weight of the sin of the world on His pure, loving heart. When the soldiers came to break the legs of the executed ones to hasten their death before sunset, they found Jesus already expired.

(For those reading who don't know, Roman-style crucifixion is a distinctly cruel form of execution and often took several days to run its course. The priests feared desecrating the Passover/Sabbath and thus dispatched men to go and break the legs of the sufferers, which would cause the torso to stretch from lack of support from beneath and cause extreme distress in breathing, resulting in rapid respiratory failure. But they found Christ already expired. This is a primary technical aspect of what is meant when a sermon includes remarks about the fact that the death of Christ was not administered by Jews or Romans, but by the sins of the world.)

 

[Marymog]

Hi Mary,

Glad you liked it. But I think you might be taking it a little too personally. You've still got me wrong on my approach to Scripture and orthodoxy. But it seems like every time I try to explain my process, you interpret it into something I had no intention of portraying. Oh, well. And Scripture seems to interpret itself for the patient student. Just because everybody disagrees doesn't mean no one is right. If you sealed two men in separate caves with nothing but food, water, and a Bible I think they would emerge agreeing on some things, so why is it so odd that I would agree with various teachers about certain things. I really haven't read much of these 16th-century "men" you mention so much. Granted I've probably read some stuff from people who were influenced by them. I think it goes without saying that you're certainly at liberty to pursue your own course, whether that be to pay respect to church fathers or whatever. You might want to lighten up a little bit, in any case. Just a friendly suggestion.

I read something yesterday that made me think of you. A missionary was talking about a letter he got from a young African man asking for advice on dealing with the temptation to sin. And the missionary quoted a Catholic clergyman who wrote something to the effect of: "When we look at the sinlessness of Mary, the mother of Jesus, it inspires us to have faith that we may be less sinful." Is that idea familiar to you and, if so, would you say you are in agreement with it? Of course, you don't have to answer if you would rather not.

Oh goodness B5,

I'm not taking it personally so you seem to be getting me "wrong" also. Also, Scripture does not interpret Scripture. Scripture is what Scripture says it is: It is USEFUL for teaching, teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. Scripture does NOT interpret itself. Scripture DOES NOT claim that, you do.

For your "Scripture seems to interpret itself" theory to work Scripture would have to tell you what books belong in Scripture for you to read from to properly interpret it. Please show me in Scripture where God lists what books are to be in Scripture. Prove to me that you have the authority to interpret the Bible for me without using your own personal interpretations of what various passages mean. It can't be done B5. What you have been taught OR what you taught yourself is NOT in Scripture and it is not true.

Your 2 men sealed in a cave with a bible makes ZERO sense. It does not matter if they both come up with different interpretations OR agree. NEITHER of them are the pillar and foundation of truth. Scripture says The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. 2nd off scripture says that those 2 men would then go to The Church to settle their disagreement. Can you see how your 2 men in a cave scenario makes no sense when using Scripture to figure out which one is "right" on their disagreement?

I agree with the missionary who quoted a Catholic clergyman: there is nothing wrong with looking to the Mother of God for inspiration in ANYTHING that we do or say. Whether she was a sinful person as you Protestants teach or sinless; she is an inspiration to all Christians. Are you in agreement with that? You don't have to answer if you would rather not.

Keeping it real using Scripture AND logic...Mary

 

[Marymog]

Do we really need to be reminded, with grave detail, of the last physical state of a loved one who died violently?

I think not..

Lol...do we need to be reminded of the last physical state of a loved one who died violently?????????????

Well, apparently the writers of Scripture thought we needed to be reminded since they told us how he was beaten, spat upon, crown of thorns placed on his head, to weak from bloodloss and the severe beating to carry His cross and having a spear thrust in his side. But if it upsets your tummy to be reminded of what HE did for YOU then skip over those words in Scripture. Or take some Tums before you read it.

We Catholics proclaim Christ crucified (1 Corinthians 1:23) and what we proclaim we also depict in our Churches. Do you proclaim Christ crucified? Or do You only proclaim that he is risen and that is why you Protestants prefer an empty cross? Is it because you don't want to remember what He did for you?

 

[Marymog]

I doubt it.

You found 3 churches, in the entire world, that YOU claim are protestant.

Those are clearly not protestant churches, loaded to the roof with masonic/pagan symbolism right down to the black and white checkered floors.

I've never seen a church like any of those anywhere in America; besides Catholic churches.

I think you're beating a dead horse.

Catholics have statues. Protestants don't. But that doesn't mean all protestant denominations are 100% Biblically accurate with scripture.

The vast majority are not.

Can we move on to another topic now?

Well, then it's settled. I lied to you since those clearly are not Protestant churches. Now we have nothing to discuss. I am wrong and you are right. I am a liar and you want to move on to another topic....instead of proving that I am a liar...you want to move on.

You crack me up G2V.....Did you know there is a way you can take those images I provided and find out FOR YOURSELF from where those pictures were taken? I know you won't do that because then it would prove that they are images from Protestant Churches and then you would have to apologize for 'doubting' me. I will get on my horse now and ride away...Yes, my horse is still alive and not dead like you think it is

 

[Marymog]

I've never seen a church like any of those anywhere in America; besides Catholic churches.

Well, since you have never seen a Protestant Church in America with statues and images you need to get out more. I won't provide you any proof that there are some, you need to get in your car and go to them...

Ooops....sorry. I accidently pasted these images from, what I ALLEGE to be a Protestant church in America. You can disregard them and all the images/statues in them.

Getting back on my dead horse to ride away since we are moving on to another topic.

 

[Marymog]

I'm ashamed to say that I forced myself to sit through Mel Gibson's gorefest about the crucifixion and it was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen.

You are ashamed to say you watched a video depiction of what He did for you? (You forced yourself to be ashamed....hmmmmm)

Well, I don't think the Apostles were ashamed to right it down so you can feel at ease.....

 

[Marymog]

If you love Jesus Christ, it doesn't serve you much to look upon His beaten and battered body all day every day. It's an insult to God. Besides, it is an image which is forbidden in the Bible as an idol.

If it doesn't bother you to see the Crucifix with the image of Jesus' distorted body on it, then don't worry about it. It bothers certain Christians and they know who they are and so does God.

Sooooo to show true love I SHOULDN'T see what He did for me? I should only read about it? Interesting...Where does the bible say that?

@BarnyFife saw an image on video of Jesus crucified. Shame on you B5.....You did what God forbade you to do!!

 

[BarneyFife]

You are ashamed to say you watched a video depiction of what He did for you? (You forced yourself to be ashamed....hmmmmm)

I'm sorry for being honest about my mistake.

 

[Marymog]

I'm sorry for being honest about my mistake.

It was a mistake for you to watch how Jesus suffered for you? Did the Apostles make a mistake when they wrote down in words for you to read how Jesus suffered for you?

curious Mary

 

[GEN2REV]

"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

Who are the 10 Commandments written to?
They are written to all God's Children.

Who are God's Children? Let's see.

God is a spirit. Those who worship Him (His Children) must worship Him in spirit and in Truth.
John 4:24

Spiritual Israel are God's Children; NOT any physical/fleshly race - for "...they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:.."
Romans 9:8

Is God's Law a physical Law or a Spiritual Law?
"For we know that the Law is spiritual:..."
Romans 7:14

"Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, (those who do them and keep them may go to heaven.)...Ye shall not add unto (them), neither shall ye diminish (them)..., that ye might keep the Commandments of the Lord your God ..."
Deuteronomy 4:1-2

NOTE: this chapter speaks nothing of the Mosaic/Ceremonial laws. It is ONLY referring to the 10 Commandments which ARE God's Law.

"And He declared unto you ... Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on tables of stone."
Deuteronomy 4:13

And what if His Children stop obeying His Commandments?

"... the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen,..."
Deuteronomy 4:27

We are living this reality today. Scattered far and wide; few and far between among the nations.

"But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find Him, if thou seek Him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
(This next verse is PROOF POSITIVE that the Commandments are still valid to this very day.)
When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days (end times), if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto His voice; (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God; ) He will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers (10 Commandments) which He sware unto them."
Deuteronomy 4:29-31

"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

Who are the 10 Commandments written to?
They are written to all God's Children.

Who are God's Children? Let's see.

God is a spirit. Those who worship Him (His Children) must worship Him in spirit and in Truth.
John 4:24

Spiritual Israel are God's Children; NOT any physical/fleshly race - for "...they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:.."
Romans 9:8

Is God's Law a physical Law or a Spiritual Law?
"For we know that the Law is spiritual:..."
Romans 7:14

"Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, (those who do them and keep them may go to heaven.)...Ye shall not add unto (them), neither shall ye diminish (them)..., that ye might keep the Commandments of the Lord your God ..."
Deuteronomy 4:1-2

NOTE: this chapter speaks nothing of the Mosaic/Ceremonial laws. It is ONLY referring to the 10 Commandments which ARE God's Law.

"And He declared unto you ... Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on tables of stone."
Deuteronomy 4:13

And what if His Children stop obeying His Commandments?

"... the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen,..."
Deuteronomy 4:27

We are living this reality today. Scattered far and wide; few and far between among the nations.

"But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find Him, if thou seek Him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
(This next verse is PROOF POSITIVE that the Commandments are still valid to this very day.)
When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days (end times), if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto His voice; (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God; ) He will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers (10 Commandments) which He sware unto them."
Deuteronomy 4:29-31

"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6

Yes, they are forever for sinners, until Jesus takes away their sin. 1 John 3:5, "And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin."

Galatians 3:19
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made

Jesus was the Seed.

 

[GEN2REV]

Yes, they are forever for sinners, until Jesus takes away their sin. 1 John 3:5, "And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin."

If what you're saying were true, the way you're explaining it, that would mean that sin no longer exists for those people. But we see in Scripture that is just not the case. 1 John 3:4 tells us sin is the breaking of the 10 Commandments. John would not have mentioned this if Christians, who had been saved, were now free from ever having to worry about sin again. It's just not Biblical.

Galatians 3:19
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made

Jesus was the Seed.

This verse aligns perfectly with Hebrews 9:10 which tells us it was the Law of Ordinances that was done away with at Christ's coming and Crucifixion; that time of reformation.

Also, we see that the 10 Commandments were in effect before the event at Sinai due to the mention of the Sabbath in Exodus 16. Sinai, and all the additional commandments, didn't happen until Exodus 20.

Therefore, it was the Mosaic 613 Ceremonial/Sacrificial Laws of Ordinances that were added as you say; added at the event at Sinai. The 10 Commandments were never part of that, as they were the only Commands written in stone, they were separate, and they were never to be repealed; as 1 John 3:4 makes evident.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1 John 3:4 tells us sin is the breaking of the 10 Commandments. John would not have mentioned this if Christians, who had been saved, were now free from ever having to worry about sin again. It's just not Biblical.

So you disagree that 1 John 3:5, "And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin," is not part of your Bible if "its just not Biblical."

 

[Behold]

"
They are written to all God's Children.

The 10 Commandments, from the OLD TESAMENT, were given to Moses, a Jew, and He gave them to Jews., not "children of God", in the New Testament "born again". sense.
So, Are you a Jew, Gen2Rev?
Do you live in the Old Testament?

So, Are they useful, always?
They are, as they are a lifestyle boundary, that if you live there, you can keep yourself away from a lot of sorrow in this world.
Can the 10 Commandments, or the LAW, save you, ?
Never.
They have no power to SAVE. They have no power to make you righteous. They have no power to get you to heaven.
So, in that regard the 10 Commandments, are USELESS.

Dont follow Commandments, follow Truth and Righteousness, and that comes From God alone, as "the GIFT of Righteousness".

Jesus Himself is THE Truth...... John 14:6

 

[Jim B]

If what you're saying were true, the way you're explaining it, that would mean that sin no longer exists for those people. But we see in Scripture that is just not the case. 1 John 3:4 tells us sin is the breaking of the 10 Commandments. John would not have mentioned this if Christians, who had been saved, were now free from ever having to worry about sin again. It's just not Biblical.This verse aligns perfectly with Hebrews 9:10 which tells us it was the Law of Ordinances that was done away with at Christ's coming and Crucifixion; that time of reformation.

Also, we see that the 10 Commandments were in effect before the event at Sinai due to the mention of the Sabbath in Exodus 16. Sinai, and all the additional commandments, didn't happen until Exodus 20.

Therefore, it was the Mosaic 613 Ceremonial/Sacrificial Laws of Ordinances that were added as you say; added at the event at Sinai. The 10 Commandments were never part of that, as they were the only Commands written in stone, they were separate, and they were never to be repealed; as 1 John 3:4 makes evident.

You can rationalize anything, can't you? The second, new covenant replaced the first, old covenant.

Try including more than a single, out of context, verse if you want anyone to take you seriously. 1 John 3:4-6, " Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; indeed, sin is lawlessness. And you know that Jesus was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. Everyone who resides in him does not sin; everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him."

Hebrews 9:9-14, "This was a symbol for the time then present, when gifts and sacrifices were offered that could not perfect the conscience of the worshiper. They served only for matters of food and drink and various ritual washings; they are external regulations imposed until the new order came.

But now Christ has come as the high priest of the good things to come. He passed through the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, and he entered once for all into the Most Holy Place not by the blood of goats and calves but by his own blood, and so he himself secured eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow sprinkled on those who are defiled consecrated them and provided ritual purity, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our consciences from dead works to worship the living God."

 

[GEN2REV]

So you disagree that 1 John 3:5, "And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin," is not part of your Bible if "its just not Biblical."

I agree with every single verse of Scripture.

I, and God, disagree with you and your buddies' interpretation of it.

Simple as that.

 

[Behold]

So you disagree that 1 John 3:5, "And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin," is not part of your Bible if "its just not Biblical."

Yes.

1 John 3:5...this is where the born again Spirit exists.

Its "IN HIM", where there is no sin".

That is where the born again were birthed into... Spiritually.

"In Him" = "In Christ"

"IN Him" is how we "abide IN HIM"

"In Him" is to become "ONE with God"., and "IN HIM" there is no SIN, and all the born again SPIRITS, each of us who is born again, we are IN HIM< and IN HIM< is no sin.